[MOC] AW 169 helicopter [US Navy edition]

[Johnny1360]

Very impressive, especially after the updates. Not only is it so well built but the speed in which you managed to put it all together just blows me away. I have never attempted to replicate anothers MOC but this may be my first. Very well done!

[therealjustin]

It was great before, and somehow you've managed to make it look even better. I really want to build this and put it on display, especially since I currently do not have any aircraft or rotorcraft in my collection. Well done!

[steph77]

On ‎5‎/‎01‎/‎2018 at 11:19 AM, Ivan_M said:

The rotor definetly looks better! I would leave out the black flex axles below it, otherwise it is very nice improvement. I have already bought missing parts so I plan to build it in next week. Are you going to update the ldd file? I thought I would make PDF instructions for it, it deserve it

Hi Ivan, I am so happy you propose to make real instruction for my Moc, thanks for that.

I do modify my LDD file just now, i'll send it to you as soon as it is finished. This must not be long.

As well, i'll follow your work an I am at your entire disposition for any information or  eventual problems to solve.

Again, a great thank you for it

On ‎5‎/‎01‎/‎2018 at 11:39 AM, grego18f said:

You have accomplished an incredible work again. I am totally in love with the design and functions!

Thanks!

On ‎5‎/‎01‎/‎2018 at 12:17 PM, Jeroen Ottens said:

Oh wow

I love that curvy flexaxle below the rotor, it indeed gives a good dynamic. I have never built someone else's MOC, but I am very tempted to build this one. It ticks all my boxes for a great Technic set.

I kind of liked the spindly appearance of the previous rotorhead (although I disliked the big white round plate on top). The new rotorhead looks a bit large in diameter...

The new rotor head is not larger than previous one as the base is exactly the same, butmaybe it looks like it is larger wich I consider is realy possible. The best think would be to drastically reduce this diameter but I didn't manage a good way to do it actulally. I am very interested in any proposition you could make in this research. Thanks for kind comment also...

22 hours ago, JonathanM said:

This is such an awesome design - will have to order those swashplate parts :)

I wonder if this might work as a slightly less bulky top rotor (also slightly more rigid?), moving things in 0.5L. The ball joint placement would probably still need your current design due to the link lengths, but with this you could use 2L thin axles instead to bring the ball joints in another 1L.

swashplate

Or alternately this, bringing it in another 0.5L (uses the 24z gear like before)

I know it's not good to quote pictures but in this case I found it was necessary. ( @Milan just make me know if I have to remove them)

So, first I really appreciate you effort to propose a mod and all the work and time past to do it.

They are only 2 parts at my knowledge who propose  a 4 pins fixation. The 20T I used and this big wheel. unfortunately, I only have one available now as the second is used in another moc I do not want to take in pieces. The gain is only 0.5 stud, 1 in total width witch is however appreciable.

I think the reflexion must still goes on for this point. I am pretty sure it's possible to reduce it more, but as always, I have to find the way, witch is another story...

21 hours ago, Kaero said:

Your model looks very interresting. Am I right the control and mechanics of rotors is very similar to the real helicopter? Would it be a good educative build to explain how helicopter works for my kids?

You are right, it's the main idea of this model : a demonstrator of flight controls. I just have to notice that the lateral control are ergonomics but not the top of realism (not in cockpit) and that this model does not provide the in cab commands. Anyway it is a good model for your kids ....

20 hours ago, Johnny1360 said:

Very impressive, especially after the updates. Not only is it so well built but the speed in which you managed to put it all together just blows me away. I have never attempted to replicate anothers MOC but this may be my first. Very well done!

Thanks! I really try to use very common parts except the swashpalte. Maybe @efferman could provide us some affordable custom printed parts for it?

17 hours ago, therealjustin said:

It was great before, and somehow you've managed to make it look even better. I really want to build this and put it on display, especially since I currently do not have any aircraft or rotorcraft in my collection. Well done!

As Ivan proposed his help for instruction it could be a reality soon :)

 

Edited January 6, 2018 by steph77

[Jeroen Ottens]

7 minutes ago, steph77 said:

The new rotor head is not larger than previous one as the base is exactly the same, butmaybe it looks like it is larger wich I consider is realy possible. The best think would be to drastically reduce this diameter but I didn't manage a good way to do it actulally. I am very interested in any proposition you could make in this research. Thanks for kind comment also...

You're welcome. I'll take a look at the head when I am back in town (which will be in a week or so), but I do not expect to be able to improve much without sacrificing the sturdiness of the connection of the blades TBH.

[Milan]

4 hours ago, steph77 said:

( @Milan just make me know if I have to remove them)

Its perfectly fine if they are on a new page.

[steph77]

Thanks Milan,

@Ivan_M   here is the final ldd file : http://www.moc-pages.com/moc.php/443813

 

Really impatient to see the first results...

 

 

 

Edited January 6, 2018 by steph77

[Ivan_M]

Thanks! I will start with the build next week, then I will make stepped digital file, I think it might be ready in half of the January

[steph77]

 

[therealjustin]

What are the missing swashplates in the .LXF? Part 2908?

[JonathanM]

On 1/7/2018 at 3:57 AM, steph77 said:

I think the reflexion must still goes on for this point. I am pretty sure it's possible to reduce it more, but as always, I have to find the way, witch is another story...

Indeed. I find this sort of thing a lot of fun. I hope you don't mind, but I played in the brick with some further designs as well:

These reduce the diameter by 2, 3, and 4 studs. You can reduce down to 5 studs diameter, but at the expense of more offset of the blades from center. I quite like the middle one - the pivots are exactly on center, so opposite blades are 2 studs offset from each other. The larger one has a nice symmetry, and opposite blades are just 1 studs apart. The smaller one is maybe too small - blades can pivot about 15 degrees towards the 24z gear on that one, and the axle is secured only on the one side due to the stack of 2x0.5 liftarms in the center.

EDIT: Final? revision of the center one that makes it considerably simpler using a couple of weapon barrels. Plus changes location of tilting arm, perhaps to reduce vibration

Edited January 7, 2018 by JonathanM
Yet another revision

[steph77]

Hi Jonathan,

I build your rotorhead proposition early this morning. I coupled you design with the resulting previous design of the moving part that support the blades. This one:

And then, I placed in on your mount:

and a second to have a closer look:

And a front view to complete the serial:

So,

First at design level I really appreciate the width decreasing by 2 studs, and also a very enlighted design. I do not appreciate the final look of the gun barrel on the top as it seems to pop up of the rotor head. Maybe this parts does exist in black?

Second, and finaly most important part: the technical data and dynamic test report:

Whent tested on low collective mode the head runs perfectly smoothly so it was ok. Also it show it was sturdy enough for the use however it is significant less sturdy than the first design.

But when increasing collective pitch (the swahplate goes up) it began to vibrate. I quickly understand that having the rotor head 1 stud shorter makes the articulation point of the liaison rod also one stud closer of the center. This was enough to create a conflict between the vertical rod (linking the swashplate) and the support of the next blade on the rotor head.

I have tried to solve the problem by redesigning the blade support/moving rod liaison but I didn't find a way to make it work properly after about 2h working on it.

I 'll keep your idea in mind ....

Finally it will work properly, it always does.

 

Thanks for your time.

6 hours ago, therealjustin said:

What are the missing swashplates in the .LXF? Part 2908?

It is the swashplate coming from the set number 8856 I do not know the serial number of this part

 

Steph. 

 

Edited January 7, 2018 by steph77

[JonathanM]

Thanks for trying it out! Indeed, how it behaves is crucial - unfortunately I don't yet have the swashplate parts to build it complete - have just placed a bricklink order so I can build your great MOC.

By the looks you used 3L liftarms from the hub to connector. I suspect 4L will be a bit more sturdy, so each axle hole of the connector is filled. It will also mean a smoother surface to avoid conflicts with the moving arms on the blades. Replacing the 3L crossblock with 2x 3L thin liftarms might help with that as well.

EDIT: Have updated the last image above with another possible solution. Makes it a bit bulkier though.

Lastly, it might also help a tiny bit with rigidity to use the 3L with 2L axle and 1L pin through the weapon barrel pieces (two up, two down) to tighten the hubs up a bit - the pins fit tighter in the weapon barrel pinholes. The weapon barrel part is available cheaply in black - agreed it stands out way too much at the moment.

Edited January 7, 2018 by JonathanM

[steph77]

Hi,

Thanks for this design. i 'll try to test it current this week.

 

EDIT:

 

I have try some recoloring of the model Under LDD and in extended mode, so with no disponible color for some parts. The basic idea is to stop with bi-color design. Here it is:

 

 

 

Edited January 8, 2018 by steph77

[JonathanM]

Hi Steph,

Have built the helicopter - what a great build! I learnt a lot doing so - thanks very much for sharing the LDD! I've made a few modifications along the way to make the build a tiny little bit more modular, and am working on making the battery box removable at the moment (mostly as my batteries are close to flat from playing :)

Will add my changes to the LDD file as I get them into shape, in case they're of use to others.

Thanks again for sharing the LDD and developing a really excellent technic build :)

Jonathan

[steph77]

Hi!

On ‎7‎/‎01‎/‎2018 at 11:00 AM, JonathanM said:

Thanks for trying it out!

EDIT: Have updated the last image above with another possible solution. Makes it a bit bulkier though.

 

De nada.

I have build your alternate solution and it works pretty well excepted at the extreme level of both collective and cyclic. For me 99 % acceptable so OK :)

As I do dot have the central piece in black, i'will keep my own design but yours can be apply as some peoples are building it at this time. Thanks!

1 hour ago, JonathanM said:

Hi Steph,

Have built the helicopter - what a great build! I learnt a lot doing so - thanks very much for sharing the LDD! I've made a few modifications along the way to make the build a tiny little bit more modular, and am working on making the battery box removable at the moment (mostly as my batteries are close to flat from playing :)

Will add my changes to the LDD file as I get them into shape, in case they're of use to others.

Thanks again for sharing the LDD and developing a really excellent technic build :)

Jonathan

Hello Jonathan, I am curious about these modification for the modularity of the build ;)

Any chance to get a picture of your build here? I am honored you take the time to build it.

BTW, how many time for it? was my LDD complete?parts list was OK?

 

Edited January 14, 2018 by steph77

[JonathanM]

Hi Steph,

I built it over a few days, so not sure how long in total - most of the time was spent playing around with alternate build methods, and disassembly/reassembly when I built things in the wrong order. It's nice pushing the 7L/8L axles through above the joysticks and see everything stiffen up. The tail rotor is super smooth - really nice design with the wheel hub.

The LDD is excellent. Only maybe one or two pieces not 100% right, but in those cases it was obvious what it should be. e.g. axle used instead of a pin in one case, and a beam across the panels at the front that wasn't possible to place, but wasn't needed. By the looks there is some modifications since your last photos - the beams holding the winch design is a bit different, and you had a seat on the left. Also you put some ribbed hoses in the top that aren't in the LDD I think - everything essential is there though :)

I managed to get a solution to battery replacement - still needs a bit of iteration on the connections to tidy it up a bit so will work on that over the next days.

Agreed regarding the rotor design - I have a couple of other modifications to the linkage connections, but it still sees some vibrations at extreme ends of movement, when you push the left joystick hard into corners. The motor is losing torque there as well as I have it geared up 20:12 from your design currently which is too much for the M motor I think :) I'll add back in the 12:20 and see if that makes it have enough torque. Fresh batteries will probably also help! :)

Will try and do up the LDD and take some photos over the coming week.

Jonathan

[JonathanM]

Hi Steph,

Some photos showing some of the modifications.

Rest can be viewed here https://flic.kr/s/aHskuEfbCf

Mods (mostly minor) are:

1. Removable battery.
2. Minor front nose change to remove small stress on panels - it makes roof a bit higher so needed to change windscreen at sides which also fit with less stress.
3. Larger wheels from the heavy lift helicopter 42052.
4. Drive chain changes to make it more compact. Note that it's geared 20:12 faster than your version which is a bit much for the M-motor. M-motor is also moved back 1 stud as a result. Suspect an L or XL motor would work better at this speed. Would be tricky I think to get the 20:12 gearing back in I think.
5. Use of liftarm instead of axle for winch gearbox changes.
6. Some modularisation - e.g. tail can be removed completely with 6 pins and an axle. Still more can be done on that I think.

Will hopefully get time to work on LDD over coming week.

Jonathan

[steph77]

19 hours ago, JonathanM said:

Mods (mostly minor) are:

1. Removable battery.
2. Minor front nose change to remove small stress on panels - it makes roof a bit higher so needed to change windscreen at sides which also fit with less stress.
3. Larger wheels from the heavy lift helicopter 42052.
4. Drive chain changes to make it more compact. Note that it's geared 20:12 faster than your version which is a bit much for the M-motor. M-motor is also moved back 1 stud as a result. Suspect an L or XL motor would work better at this speed. Would be tricky I think to get the 20:12 gearing back in I think.
5. Use of liftarm instead of axle for winch gearbox changes.
6. Some modularisation - e.g. tail can be removed completely with 6 pins and an axle. Still more can be done on that I think.

Will hopefully get time to work on LDD over coming week.

Jonathan

Hello, I felt very honored when I see your build. Thanks for that,

Looking at the mods I found its a very interesting approach you had. And the red color with black chassis is also a great looking thing.

It is cool to see that not only you built it but also you improved it. This makes sense to publish here my Moc and work.

Looking at your mods:

About the motor reduction I used the 2X 12T/20T in order to keep enough torque in any circumstances. I understand that it frustrating to see it spin so low but I had to make compromise on it.

Good point in the use of the new gearbox elements, all mine are actually used in my recycle truck, so I had to do with older parts. I understand the sense of building it's command with liftarms, I will modify mine with this great improvement.

For the bigger wheels, why not?, not still sure of what thinking about that :)

And finally about the stressed panel of the nose, I must admit that your solution seems very good. In my building idea, the central support under the panels was stiffing the superstructure. Isn't it to weak like this? No big deformation of the front part?

Again, thanks

 

[Thirdwigg]

Ooo, I like the bigger wheels, and the red looks nice.

I keep coming back to the original build. It's a great one, I added it to my top 17 of 2017 list. I think I may need to add to my "build this" list.

[JonathanM]

Hi Steph,Yes - the reduced torque is a slight issue, though it is compounded greatly by the rotor not being optimal - your rotor works far better. I've managed to make another one that is slightly smaller and works I think as well as yours - it uses the same pivot points, is 2L diameter smaller, but it is not as strong, but appears strong enough. Not as elegant either!

I find with both they need to be about 0.25-0.5L off the 10L axle to get perfectly smooth, else the 6L links hit the previous blade mount still. With that, you can hear the motor start to struggle a bit at the extremes of movement (right joystick up, left to the top right or bottom left)

Please excuse the hastily shot video (handheld by someone who hadn't had coffee yet...)

http://youtu.be/zYO3dm35QMY

For the front, it's about the same stress overall maybe, while also still being stiff enough - part of that is the 11L beam running across between the red panels in front of the battery box, which is connected to the longitudinal liftarms in the bottom frame with pin + pinholes via the axle through the seats. The nose construction is then reasonably stiff as well - there is some small range of movement (maybe 2mm by tilting the assembly a little front to back, and some flex left to right due to the bottom frame twisting) before the A pillars are put in place, but once they're there it's quite solid.

Edited January 24, 2018 by JonathanM
try and get youtube to embed

[JonathanM]

Hi Steph,

Finally had time to finish up the LDD with the various changes. Link here:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pqbOh3jCqXFTBRNgLK7XxPMOEHmKjooF/view?usp=sharing

This includes the various changes above, optimised a little bit. I made liberal use of groups - not sure if this makes it easier for instructions or not - was just easier for me to hide chunks of the model at a time, and also for rotating parts etc (which I'm not very good at so it takes ages). Maybe it will help @Ivan_M with instructions.

Cheers,
Jonathan

[Ivan_M]

Thank you Jonathan, I will use your file for the build. I'm currently at 3/4 of the physical build and it is impressive, but it will be very difficult to make properly into instructions, there seems to be some connections that require attaching liftarm with some connectors and then rotating it into place. Such steps are difficult to model. i will see if it can be avoided.

[steph77]

5 hours ago, Ivan_M said:

Thank you Jonathan, I will use your file for the build. I'm currently at 3/4 of the physical build and it is impressive, but it will be very difficult to make properly into instructions, there seems to be some connections that require attaching liftarm with some connectors and then rotating it into place. Such steps are difficult to model. i will see if it can be avoided.

 

11 hours ago, JonathanM said:

Hi Steph,

Finally had time to finish up the LDD with the various changes. Link here:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pqbOh3jCqXFTBRNgLK7XxPMOEHmKjooF/view?usp=sharing

This includes the various changes above, optimised a little bit. I made liberal use of groups - not sure if this makes it easier for instructions or not - was just easier for me to hide chunks of the model at a time, and also for rotating parts etc (which I'm not very good at so it takes ages). Maybe it will help  with instructions.

Cheers,
Jonathan

Thanks for your work guys,

Maybe @Ivan_M can post pictures of the elements that needs to be rotated so i can also think the best way to realise the right ordered instructions?

[Ivan_M]

Don't worry, I have figured a way how to build it without that. Here is progress of stepped file, currently at step 29 with 240 parts. It is coming together nicely. The problematic was #2 black connector at each side, it is necessary  to attach it with panels.

AW 169 by steph77 - instruction progress

[steph77]

Hey!

Cool render! what do you use to achieve this kind of pictures?