[MOC] AW 169 helicopter [US Navy edition]

[Ivan_M]

Thanks, I'm using studio and  pov ray render. Before I proceed further with the build I would like to clarify what version I should make, the changes from Jonathan are quite cool, I think that the changes he made are generally helpfull, the only thing I'm not sure about is the lower gear ratio due to missing 12/20 pair of gears. What is your option about that? There are several ways how to proceed, like adding xl motor or moving the gear box to its original position but it is your build so you should decide.

By the way this is how it would look like with XL motor, the only modification to outer visible parts is moving the small panels one stud to back:

Edited January 24, 2018 by Ivan_M
picture

[steph77]

2 hours ago, Ivan_M said:

Thanks, I'm using studio and  pov ray render. Before I proceed further with the build I would like to clarify what version I should make, the changes from Jonathan are quite cool, I think that the changes he made are generally helpfull, the only thing I'm not sure about is the lower gear ratio due to missing 12/20 pair of gears. What is your option about that? There are several ways how to proceed, like adding xl motor or moving the gear box to its original position but it is your build so you should decide.

By the way this is how it would look like with XL motor, the only modification to outer visible parts is moving the small panels one stud to back:

 

Good question.

Jonathan as done changes that makes some of my assembly more 'official like build'.

He worked hard and keep the build his personality however design looks a little bit less 'agressive' wich is a good thing in a sense.

In this mind spirit, i think all his changes can be integrated.

The fact he integrated the new gearbox elements is a must have too.

For motorisation it's another story. Originaly i build it in order to avoid any stress on the Medium motor and avoiding any 'cracking' gearing .

My XL motor is dead actually and i cannot test this version unfotunately. If it work proprely, wy not after all.

On the other hand medium motor is the most usual one, XL is quiet rare part...

 

As this Moc is turning onto a community driven project i believe you can go on with this XL proposition :)

After that, any builder who will test it is free to adapt and play with his own model to realise it exactly as he want and expect.

That would be exactly what it is intended to (have fun)

Steph.

 

EDIT: any opinion is welcome on this point.

Milan?, Jeroen? how would you answer this question from your particular point of view?

Edited January 24, 2018 by steph77

[JonathanM]

Wow, those renders are great! I like some of the other changes you've made as well to fine tune things.

Regarding the #2 connector, you could replace the black pins connecting the 11L beam to the pin joiner between the panels with a 3L pin with stop pushed up from underneath. That way the panels + sides could be attached either side and then connected to the 11L beam afterwards? The 13L beam can then go on after. (Also, if you swap 11L for 13L you could put another pinhole with pin in the last pinholes facing down, and extend the 5L axles that hold the vertical beams behind the battery box to 7L, through the pinhole and into the second panel to reinforce things further).

Also, make sure you remove the bush on top of the 3L pin with 2L axle + pin where the 5L beam pivots above the 11L referred to above. The 5L beam needs to move up and down on that axle/pin as well as pivoting on it. I made the same mistake and it took me a while to figure out :)

For the drive, I think the XL motor could work, though I wonder if it might have too much torque if blades are held :)

An alternate is you could make use of your (good IMO) change to use the perpendicular pin joiner instead of the second dogbone. I think you can have the M motor horizontal, facing forward, feeding via 12:20 bevel through the pin joiner piece (pinhole closest to dogbone) to a 12:12 bevel onto the main shaft. You'd need to use a 20cm extension to the battery box though which isn't common.

Jonathan

[Ivan_M]

Thank you for the tips, it is sooo obvious about motor placement, how could I overook that! I think this is the best solution - M motor is the most common one so I think it is better to build it with it. The cable might be long enough, there is some reserve with motor vertically and there is only small change with cable end position. Alternativelly I can turn it 180° and move it forward, that would require some more modifications.

[steph77]

I think that this is the best solution.

This will result with the suppression of the two litlle panels at the rear but it's acceptable for me.

Great job!

[Ivan_M]

Oh yes you are right, I just might turn it around, the 11L beam connecting the large panels have to be removed either way and it would be better for cable

 

\\edit, like this:

Edited January 25, 2018 by Ivan_M

[steph77]

Previous was best i think.

I am afraid this one will be cracking at the level of the 3 black 12T double bevel gear?

It would be usefull to test it under charge of the rotor head as some torque pass through this gearing.

[Ivan_M]

I think it will be fine, in previous solution the reversing 12t black bewel was held in place only by frictionless pin with axle, while in the latter version it is held by 5L axle passing through frame and U connector. The amount of torque applied to it is the same in both versions.

\\edit: no, not working due to collision between motor and suspension arm, darn, back to previous version

Edited January 25, 2018 by Ivan_M

[kolbjha]

It's really a great pleasure to follow this topic! A fantastic model, and to see how it's further developed together with other EB members is just great! I'm really looking forward to build this one. Thanks to all of you involved 

[Ivan_M]

The space between large panels was very empty when the motor is horizontally so I have filled it with larger 3&4 panels and small 21&22 as well, what do you think? I'm almost at 2/3 of the build, it is quick now, no tricky parts anymore

[steph77]

This mod is in the spirit of original build. OK for me :)

Tricky parts? I realy do not see what you  mean. 

Lol...

 

[Ivan_M]

Fine

Tricky parts in terms of build sequence - like rear rotor - a lot of parts are in weird angle, without perfect fit etc.

[steph77]

I understood you. This rear rotor was very complicated to design. And it results  in effective weird angles.

...but it works ☺

Realy impatient for first results of your work. I planed to build your and also jonathan édition as a second moc?

[JonathanM]

Looks great! Hard to tell what the panel stack looks like from the render, but the larger 3x7 at least look good I think. I did a slightly different version but I think yours is fine as is - my intention was to use 5L beams to replace the 11L across the panels, but I think the 4x2 you use might be better, assuming the support for 'engines' is still doable. LXF is here in case it's of use.

Have built in the brick and it works fine. It still slows slightly at the maximum movement of the joysticks, but I think better than without the 12:20 reduction. The motor cable is *just* long enough. I routed it under the left large panel inside the 9L white liftarm and under the 11L. Then down the left hand side pretty much exactly where you'd expect it to go.

One thing is the 20T gear needs swapping to the other side of the 12T bevel (and 4+5.5 axle replaced with 10L) as in the above in case you haven't done so already - it clashes with suspension arm otherwise. Also, you need to move the 5L liftarm that does the rear rotor tilting - see LXF for how I did it.

Really looking forward to see results - the renders look fantastic! I'm tempted to reassemble with instructions to get the improvements :)

Edited January 26, 2018 by JonathanM
Fixed remaining issues.

[Ivan_M]

6 hours ago, JonathanM said:

One thing is the 20T gear needs swapping to the other side of the 12T bevel (and 4+5.5 axle replaced with 10L) as in the above in case you haven't done so already - it clashes with suspension arm otherwise. Also, you need to move the 5L liftarm that does the rear rotor tilting - see LXF for how I did it.

Thank you for pointing it out, I will look at it. I'm currently using 12/20 reduction near the motor and 12/12 gears lower in frame, I would like to keep the 5.5 axle and rear rotor lever so I will test it with half bewel and bush

[Jeroen Ottens]

I hadn't been following this topic for a few days, but wow...
Certainly looking forward to the final result. I am happy that you choose for the M-motor, for this application (high speed, low torque) I think it is the best motor. And the motor is more in proportion with the rest of the model I think.

I'd have to see the model in real life, but to me the triple panels in the back look a bit too cluttered. It has some nice repeating shapes, but they do not exist in a real life helicopter...

Keep up the good work.

[Ivan_M]

I have finished stepped digital file:

 

I have to test the gears/suspension arm in real life first, then I will make flex axles in LSynth and finish it in LPub. It is spread into 403 steps including steps in subassemblies. Final part count is 1395.

Here is source file: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1d0IMT9jniYavN2E2A_jShwFloeB3VE_Q

 

Edited January 26, 2018 by Ivan_M
link corrected

[steph77]

3 hours ago, Ivan_M said:

I have finished stepped digital file:

I have to test the gears/suspension arm in real life first, then I will make flex axles in LSynth and finish it in LPub. It is spread into 403 steps including steps in subassemblies. Final part count is 1395.

Here is source file: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1d0IMT9jniYavN2E2A_jShwFloeB3VE_Q

 

Great news!

Thanks for this great work.

When i follow the link i just have the picture you've posted. Normal?

[JonathanM]

13 hours ago, Ivan_M said:

Thank you for pointing it out, I will look at it. I'm currently using 12/20 reduction near the motor and 12/12 gears lower in frame, I would like to keep the 5.5 axle and rear rotor lever so I will test it with half bewel and bush

A half bevel and bush might work I think - it will be tight, as the suspension arm moves almost exactly 0.5 studs at the level of the drive shaft. Agreed it would be nice to keep the 5.5 axle there - helps offset the two axles correctly for the reversing gears plus is elegant and helps with assembly using the axle joiner. The rear rotor lever I think will be OK as well - not completely sure, but that can easily be moved 1 stud out and further back - doing so also gives some symmetry with the winch lever.

I like your solution for the top around the panels, the 12:20 reduction, and linking into the main frame. Very nice work!

Edited January 26, 2018 by JonathanM

[Ivan_M]

59 minutes ago, JonathanM said:

A half bevel and bush might work I think - it will be tight, as the suspension arm moves almost exactly 0.5 studs at the level of the drive shaft. Agreed it would be nice to keep the 5.5 axle there - helps offset the two axles correctly for the reversing gears plus is elegant and helps with assembly using the axle joiner. The rear rotor lever I think will be OK as well - not completely sure, but that can easily be moved 1 stud out and further back - doing so also gives some symmetry with the winch lever.

I like your solution for the top around the panels + linking into the main frame. Very nice work!

Just build it, half bewel + bush works very well. The 5.5 axles have to be replaced anyway - how stupid I'm to place #1 connector AND bewel into 5x7 frame. It is of course not possible in real life and I wouldn't think about that at all when building with real bricks, but when I build on computer I sometimes forget... Oh silly me, I need more coffee.

 

\\ edit: I have reach the point where I should connect motor to BB and I'm missing ~3 studs of cable and there is no way to gain that anywhere

Edited January 26, 2018 by Ivan_M

[JonathanM]

Yeah - I did the same thing. I switched the #1 connector out for a pin with pinhole from a 5x3 L frame on the non-gearbox side (see LXF above).

My motor lead fit just fine - it was tight though. I wonder if some are different lengths? Click for more photos:

Edited January 26, 2018 by JonathanM

[Ivan_M]

8 minutes ago, JonathanM said:

My motor lead fit just fine - it was tight though. I wonder if some are different lengths? Click for more photos:

 

Thank you, you are right! I have 4 M motors and all of them are slightly different. This is not a good solution tho, to rely on this, I will try to come with something tomorrow.

[JonathanM]

You're right, have just checked mine - turns out I used the longest one by luck!

Might have to swap the motor around the other way like you did above? If the 5x7 frame is moved back a stud the suspension arm will fit in if motor cable is routed to the side I think?

[Ivan_M]

I give up, I cannot find an easy solution to cable problem without remaking 20% of the stepped file, I will put a note into instructions about that... I have also made change to rear motor mount, with original there was too much stress on parts which resulted in too much friction. I have replaced the perpendicular 4x2 connector with 4x2 liftarm. It resulted in increased ange, longer lever to blade tilting (3L vs 5L) and longer axle that moves the rotor (8L vs 10L). The reduction in friction is very big. See image here:

I have also added small panels into nose to make it more closed, your opinion about that?

And here are panels at the back:

 

I would like to finish the PDF during next two evenings so I can move to another project.

[JonathanM]

The rear rotor change looks to move it to a pythagorean triangle (3,4,5)? If so, I think that's OK. Angle is a bit higher than it should be (30 degrees I think Steph was aiming for) but it is now in system.

A 20cm extension if a motor cable isn't quite long enough is easy enough to add I would think, so IMO that is acceptable.

What do you use to make the stepped file? I tried stud.io but it just kills my laptop (Mac) with 100% CPU constantly (a known issue I believe).