[WIP] Greyhound - 4WD RC Buggy with BuWizz 2 - Redesigned wheel hubs

[Didumos69]

So I wasn't finished of course .

I'm in the process of simplifying things (digitally) where possible and improving a few things I wasn't too happy with. In effect, I removed 129 parts - and counting - and replaced many parts with smaller ones. Shorter beams, shorter pins, etc. The most important things I improved:

• I made the BuWiZZes removable. They can be removed from below now, without removing or omitting the seats.
• I added transversal inclined beams behind the seats to better secure the transversal 5x7 frames to which the rear suspension arms are mounted.

I also rearranged the groups in LDD, which allowed me to make some cutaways showing the main structure of the whole model.

Edited May 8, 2018 by Didumos69

[zweihander]

You could slap some panels on the structure and rebrand it as a submarine :D

[Didumos69]

3 hours ago, zweihander said:

You could slap some panels on the structure and rebrand it as a submarine :D

Wohaha! Or as a boat. Btw, don't be surprised when you see a buggy float...

 

[mj002]

I think, you are not finished
The cutaway frame is very awareness, like a rolling frame in a rally car. 129 parts removed? Wow... Can I look into the LDD file interestingly?  I am very interesting, what will the right building mode step by step. And I hope your buggy able to walk in the water , maybe in ludicrouss mode .... Nice video

[emielroumen]

A while back I raised in a post the large hard shock absorbers price. Now that this beast is almost done..@Didumos69: would it be easy to make a few modifications in order to use the short hard absorbers?

[Leonardo da Bricki]

@emielroumen Since these shocks are attached simply (at each end) all that needs to be done is an easy adjustment to one of those points. @Didumos69 Sorry if I stepped on your toes!

[agrof]

17 hours ago, Didumos69 said:

I'm in the process of simplifying things (digitally) where possible and improving a few things I wasn't too happy with. In effect, I removed 129 parts - and counting - and replaced many parts with smaller ones. Shorter beams, shorter pins, etc.

That is an important and fun part at finalization, not only due to saving on weight, but also to find more simple connections for those, which were overlooked (or over engineered) during the design. I really appreciate this attitude, Sir! 

[emielroumen]

7 hours ago, Leonardo da Bricki said:

@emielroumen Since these shocks are attached simply (at each end) all that needs to be done is an easy adjustment to one of those points. @Didumos69 Sorry if I stepped on your toes!

Thanks for the answer @Leonardo da Bricki. I don't completely agree, it is not just an easy adjustment. As @Didumos69 pointed out, travel of these springs is not comparable.

[Didumos69]

15 hours ago, mj002 said:

I think, you are not finished
The cutaway frame is very awareness, like a rolling frame in a rally car. 129 parts removed? Wow... Can I look into the LDD file interestingly?  I am very interesting, what will the right building mode step by step. And I hope your buggy able to walk in the water , maybe in ludicrouss mode .... Nice video

Well I'm a bit cautious with sharing an LDD file without having built it. I'm afraid your going to have to wait a little. Unless..., see below.

14 hours ago, emielroumen said:

A while back I raised in a post the large hard shock absorbers price. Now that this beast is almost done..@Didumos69: would it be easy to make a few modifications in order to use the short hard absorbers?

I gave this some thought, but I fear it will be practically impossible, not without severely declining the models behaviour. It all comes very precise, the amount by which the suspension is compressed under the car's own weight and the amount of travel provided by the spring. The small springs have one stud travel and the large springs have 2 studs travel. If I want comparable behaviour, I will have to down-scale the triangle made by the mounting points of the springs and the rotation point of the suspension arms to which the springs are mounted by 50%. That would bring the spring too close to the motors in the rear and too close to the 2L red connectors above the motors in the front. So, I'm sorry, but I'm not going to make such modifications.

10 hours ago, Leonardo da Bricki said:

Sorry if I stepped on your toes!

No problem.

5 hours ago, agrof said:

That is an important and fun part at finalization, not only due to saving on weight, but also to find more simple connections for those, which were overlooked (or over engineered) during the design. I really appreciate this attitude, Sir! 

Thanks! And it feels very rewarding btw. Some constructions were made when only part of the bodywork was done and can be simplified a lot now that there are more points to attach things to. By now I removed 160 parts, effectively. That brings the total from 2040 to 1880 parts.

I would be willing to share the LDD temporarily, but only for review-purposes. So, if you want to help me simplifying and finalizing things, please PM me. Don't think too light about this, you need to really read the model to able to do so, but any suggestion would be welcome.

Edited May 9, 2018 by Didumos69

[Didumos69]

For those following this WIP-topic: I finished the model and presented a final photo-shoot and the final video in a separate MOC-topic.

Just a few last WIP-update words. I reduced the number of parts by 200. I also removed the transversal inclined beams I reported about a few days ago. Eventually I could reduce slack in the rear suspension arm mounts much more efficiently and with far less parts. During Ascension day I made all the adjustments to the model. I had to take the whole model apart to make all the adjustments . This also allowed me to clean everything: I am never going to make this model wet and dirty again, what a pain cleaning is .

Thank you very much to everybody who supported me throughout the last half year ! Special thanks to @agrof - who's Class 1 Buggy got me started - for some simplifications to the front axles, to @nerdsforprez for his suggestion on wrapping silicon bands around the U-joint axle holes, to @Leonardo da Bricki for suggesting the CLAAS tires, to @Lipko for thinking with me on locking-in the steering rods and to @kbalage for giving me directions on using one or two BuWizzes. And a big thanks for everybody else who made suggestions etc. Without your help I could not have done this.

Edited May 13, 2018 by Didumos69

[nerdsforprez]

18 hours ago, Didumos69 said:

 

Thank you very much to everybody who supported me throughout the last half year ! Special thanks to @agrof - who's Class 1 Buggy got me started - for some simplifications to the front axles, to @nerdsforprez for his suggestion on wrapping silicon bands around the U-joint axle holes, to @Leonardo da Bricki for suggesting the CLAAS tires, to @Lipko for thinking with me on locking-in the steering rods and to @kbalage for giving me directions on using one or two BuWizzes. And a big thanks for everybody else who made suggestions etc. Without your help I could not have done this.

You are more than welcome.  I have been quiet about this project only because I have not had a chance to really read it and respond.  I am still on the hammerhead supercar 

I actually just finished the car and your style is simply so unique and talented.  I can't really say much that has not already been said except for the robustness in which you build. The fact that you can grab this, and your supercar from pretty much any direction or angle is simply outstanding.  The robustness simply cannot over-stated.  I think people are super impressed with the speed and performance of the final outcome of this - as well they should.  But what good is speed and performance if it all falls apart on the slightest operator error? 

Outstanding job... I am sure I will be building this some day.....

[agrof]

@Didumos69 The flow goes back and forth, this MOC made me build my last one.  Glad we could add to this project here and there, but don't forget: there is no answer, if no questions would be raised, and you managed this well in your WIP topics.

[Didumos69]

17 hours ago, nerdsforprez said:

You are more than welcome.  I have been quiet about this project only because I have not had a chance to really read it and respond.  I am still on the hammerhead supercar 

I actually just finished the car and your style is simply so unique and talented.  I can't really say much that has not already been said except for the robustness in which you build. The fact that you can grab this, and your supercar from pretty much any direction or angle is simply outstanding.  The robustness simply cannot over-stated.  I think people are super impressed with the speed and performance of the final outcome of this - as well they should.  But what good is speed and performance if it all falls apart on the slightest operator error? 

Outstanding job... I am sure I will be building this some day.....

Thanks @nerdsforprez! I appreciate your kind words. But like all of us, I'm still learning. With this buggy I think I have produced something as rigid as my rugged supercar, but with less constructs.

13 hours ago, agrof said:

@Didumos69 The flow goes back and forth, this MOC made me build my last one.  Glad we could add to this project here and there, but don't forget: there is no answer, if no questions would be raised, and you managed this well in your WIP topics.

Thanks!

[mj002]

The model is almost ready, it looks better and better and very robust, I still wait some parts for the body. But I'm thinking of building it in separate units. I'm wondering what steps you are planning to build? How can you group the main parts in LDD? Chassis frame, front and rear axle and color body? Do you have any separate lxf files on them?

[Didumos69]

8 minutes ago, mj002 said:

The model is almost ready, it looks better and better and very robust, I still wait some parts for the body. But I'm thinking of building it in separate units. I'm wondering what steps you are planning to build? How can you group the main parts in LDD? Chassis frame, front and rear axle and color body? Do you have any separate lxf files on them?

I had a separate LXF-file with groups representing steps, but it's not valid anymore after all the changes. I'm working on a new version and I will share it as soon as it's ready. It will take a few days I think. It can be build without stressing parts .

[BusterHaus]

4 hours ago, Didumos69 said:

 It can be build without stressing parts .

I played with the currently available LDR file over lunch today and got to a point where assembly was impossible without stressing parts - maybe I haven't figured out something yet (see edit below).  Here is a picture of where I'm at, the parts in red are causing me a headache (there's also a 3L brown axle that's over the headrest).

Overall it's a very good puzzle to reverse-engineer.  By the way, do the seats tilt forward in the physical build?

Edit: got a lot further now, but stumbled upon another question - is the disassembly of this MOC possible without stressing parts or using tools? 

Edited May 15, 2018 by BusterHaus

[Didumos69]

3 hours ago, BusterHaus said:

I played with the currently available LDR file over lunch today and got to a point where assembly was impossible without stressing parts - maybe I haven't figured out something yet (see edit below).  Here is a picture of where I'm at, the parts in red are causing me a headache (there's also a 3L brown axle that's over the headrest).

So you're doing it again ! The 3L brown axle is key to the (dis)assembly of this section. I can best explain in reverse steps: Take out the 5L axles holding the headrests and remove the headrests by pulling them up. Take out the 3L brown axles. Remove the white beams behind the seats by pulling them forward. Make sure the pins with axle hole besides the headrests are removed (I can't see if they are still there). Now pull the entire right side of the roof (including all blue parts) to the right, while rotating it slightly along the point where the #3 connector in the back is connected. When the side of the roof disconnects, pull the entire assembly, including the parts you painted red, forward. EDIT: Do the same for the left side.

3 hours ago, BusterHaus said:

By the way, do the seats tilt forward in the physical build?

No, why do you ask?

3 hours ago, BusterHaus said:

Edit: got a lot further now, but stumbled upon another question - is the disassembly of this MOC possible without stressing parts or using tools?

As far as I know, yes. EDIT: I do use an axle as a tool to push another axle out.

Edited May 15, 2018 by Didumos69

[BusterHaus]

44 minutes ago, Didumos69 said:

So you're doing it again ! The 3L brown axle is key to the (dis)assembly of this section. I can best explain in reverse steps: Take out the 5L axles holding the headrests and remove the headrests by pulling them up. Take out the 3L brown axles. Remove the white beams behind the seats by pulling them forward. Make sure the pins with axle hole besides the headrests are removed (I can't see if they are still there). Now pull the entire right side of the roof (including all blue parts) to the right, while rotating it slightly along the point where the #3 connector in the back is connected. When the side of the roof disconnects, pull the entire assembly, including the parts you painted red, forward. EDIT: Do the same for the left side.

Makes sense.  Your builds are the opposite of modular - I expected the seats to be installed whole, including the headrest.  I need to use my imagination a bit more.  By the way, I'm not promising anything fruitful (yet) - I was very curious as to how complex this model would be in comparison to the last one.  I actually resisted the urge to download the digital files until the MOC was complete.  I'll be happy to share any progress if/when it becomes significant.  My impression so far is that this is a more complex build than the Hammerhead, at least in some sections.  Like the Hammerhead, it's very far from techniques and building styles used by official sets.  This helps to give it rigidity, but makes the building more difficult/interesting.

As for the seats, I didn't phrase my question properly.  I know the seats are mounted tilted back, I just wasn't sure if the angle was fixed, or if the seats could be tilted forward a bit.

53 minutes ago, Didumos69 said:

As far as I know, yes. EDIT: I do use an axle as a tool to push another axle out.

I saw that in a few places already.  It's great for strength, but makes physical disassembly more challenging.  The only official set I've seen so far that had similar disassembly challenges was the BWE.

[Didumos69]

@mj002 and @BusterHaus, here's an LXF-file showing the reverse building steps (in terms of groups) that I followed for the bodywork and V8-engine + M-motor. I will update the file when I continued the stepping for the chassis. When I build from this type of stepped LXF-file, I first delete each group (depth-first) from top to bottom and then with Ctrl-Z (undo) I restore each deleted group, step by step. You can select the parts in a group by clicking on the group in the group panel. When it's a big assembly I sometimes copy and paste the entire group to take a better look.

Edited May 16, 2018 by Didumos69

[Didumos69]

Today I replaced the turntables in the front wheel hubs, because the old ones showed quite some wear and slack. This time I lubricated the turntables with silicon spray (I think silicon spray was suggested by @Permo on the previous page) to avoid wear. The turntables in the rear wheel hubs are still quite okay, so I didn't replace them, but I did lubricate them too. Here you see the difference between one of the replaced turntables and a new one.

I also noticed the springs showed some wear, so I lubricated those too. And that was the best thing I could have done. The suspension is so smooth now, especially in the back. No matter what I do, the suspension always returns to the same level. I can't stop playing with it:

[Permo]

That suspension is really liquid !

[nerdsforprez]

On 5/9/2018 at 7:14 AM, Didumos69 said:

Well I'm a bit cautious with sharing an LDD file without having built it. I'm afraid your going to have to wait a little. Unless..., see below.

I gave this some thought, but I fear it will be practically impossible, not without severely declining the models behaviour. It all comes very precise, the amount by which the suspension is compressed under the car's own weight and the amount of travel provided by the spring. The small springs have one stud travel and the large springs have 2 studs travel. If I want comparable behaviour, I will have to down-scale the triangle made by the mounting points of the springs and the rotation point of the suspension arms to which the springs are mounted by 50%. That would bring the spring too close to the motors in the rear and too close to the 2L red connectors above the motors in the front. So, I'm sorry, but I'm not going to make such modifications.

 

I appreciate your efforts to cater to our wallets......but i think at some point you just have to ignore us 

Case in point: your rugged supercar uses tons of dogbone liftarms and they can also be pricey.   But,  like the shocks, i dont think there is any way to build the car without them without compromising the build. 

[Isamudyson]

I see no point in making it with springs other than what you picked. Otherwise it’s like getting a Lamborghini but using a Camry engine just to keep costs down. It’s great as is. Just have to budget

[mj002]

22 hours ago, Didumos69 said:

@mj002 and @BusterHaus, here's an LXF-file showing the reverse building steps (in terms of groups) that I followed for the bodywork and V8-engine + M-motor. I will update the file when I continued the stepping for the chassis. When I build from this type of stepped LXF-file, I first delete each group (depth-first) from top to bottom and then with Ctrl-Z (undo) I restore each deleted group, step by step. You can select the parts in a group by clicking on the group in the group panel. When it's a big assembly I sometimes copy and paste the entire group to take a better look.

@Didumos69  thank you very much for helping me, I did not know the Group menu. So far, I have always closed the entire left-hand palette. But now with grouping a new dimension is open. When I started building the chassis, I deleted the parts myself and created the three large units, front axle, chassis and rear axles. But that will be a lot simpler. You always study something new, I'm looking forward to the updated lxf file, but I'm fine with the current one, so I think how much extra work to group the parts, thank you

nice soft suspension, i also try the silicone spray...

[pagicence]

16 hours ago, Permo said:

That suspension is really liquid !

You said it. It's amazing just to watch. It's awesome how well it works, and I love it when it hits the table and the whole thing just shakes, including the camera. How much does it weigh?