[WIP] Greyhound - 4WD RC Buggy with BuWizz 2 - Redesigned wheel hubs

[Didumos69]

I have been thinking about this for a few weeks now and I didn't think I would actually come to this decision, but I'm going to move away from the BuWizz path. The issues people are experiencing and - more importantly - the complete lack of customer support from BuWizz, conflict too much with creating an advertisement for BuWizz by releasing this model 'as is' on Rebrickable. If BuWizz refuses to change its customer service level, I will eventually also remove my BuWizz videos from Youtube.

 

So, before I will make this model available to a wider audience, I will migrate to the use of 2 LEGO PF AAA battery boxes combined with 2 SBricks. I will have to lift the seats by half a stud, but I don't see that as a very big issue. For people that have been anticipating to build this model with BuWizzes, don't worry, using BuWizzes will be an easy mod. I will continue sharing the LXF-files of the model with BuWizzes.

Edited May 25, 2018 by Didumos69

[bj51]

15 minutes ago, Didumos69 said:

So, before I will make this model available to a wider audience, I will migrate to the use of 2 LEGO PF AAA battery boxes combined with 2 SBricks. I will have to lift the seats by half a stud, but I don't see that as a very big issue. For people that have been anticipating to build this model with BuWizzes, don't worry, using BuWizzes will be an easy mod. I will continue sharing the LXF-files of the model with BuWizzes.

That's great news, as I have no BuWizzes (and don't plan on buying any, seeing what I read here between the customer support and the very poor handling of the recent contest). I have plenty of sBricks though, and absolutely love your designs. I'll give this a try, definitely, and it should be on display for Mennecy in september !

Edited May 25, 2018 by bj51

[technic_addict]

1 hour ago, Didumos69 said:

I have been thinking about this for a few weeks now and I didn't think I would actually come to this decision, but I'm going to move away from the BuWizz path. The issues people are experiencing and - more importantly - the complete lack of customer support from BuWizz, conflict too much with creating an advertisement for BuWizz by releasing this model 'as is' on Rebrickable. If BuWizz refuses to change its customer service level, I will eventually also remove my BuWizz videos from Youtube.

 

So, before I will make this model available to a wider audience, I will migrate to the use of 2 LEGO PF AAA battery boxes combined with 2 SBricks. I will have to lift the seats by half a stud, but I don't see that as a very big issue. For people that have been anticipating to build this model with BuWizzes, don't worry, using BuWizzes will be an easy mod. I will continue sharing the LXF-files of the model with BuWizzes.

I have been very vocal about the lack of support and app upgrades of Buwizz, however, I feel it is much better now than in the past.  I don't know your specific issues but obviously something is not sitting right with you.

Your buggy is amazing.  It might be the best one I have seen built.  While speed is not the only factor, it certainly is somewhat of a factor.  It would be a pity to lose the exposure of the fast / ludicrous speed.

If you release it with AAA boxes, people may begin to also ask about using two V2 receivers to control it as well.  I am not sure how easily that can be integrated if at all.

I know people love options.....so if you are integrating sbricks, I would also see if you can also integrate IR's as well.

I personally was going to give the controller a try if the xbox one worked and use one buwizz for all four L motors, and a separate battery / sbrick combo for steering and maybe lights.

2 hours ago, mj002 said:

... I wanna know how to go ...

 

1 hour ago, Didumos69 said:

I suppose this is not a question, or is it?

This reminds me of the Pakled captain in STTNG: Samaritan Snare

Edited May 25, 2018 by technic_addict

[Didumos69]

2 hours ago, technic_addict said:

I have been very vocal about the lack of support and app upgrades of Buwizz, however, I feel it is much better now than in the past.  I don't know your specific issues but obviously something is not sitting right with you.

Your buggy is amazing.  It might be the best one I have seen built.  While speed is not the only factor, it certainly is somewhat of a factor.  It would be a pity to lose the exposure of the fast / ludicrous speed.

If you release it with AAA boxes, people may begin to also ask about using two V2 receivers to control it as well.  I am not sure how easily that can be integrated if at all.

I know people love options.....so if you are integrating sbricks, I would also see if you can also integrate IR's as well.

I personally was going to give the controller a try if the xbox one worked and use one buwizz for all four L motors, and a separate battery / sbrick combo for steering and maybe lights.

 

This reminds me of the Pakled captain in STTNG: Samaritan Snare

Thanks @technic_addict! I intend to leave as many as possible options open. I just don't want this model to be associated with BuWizz by default. The default will be SBrick. You will still be able to try what you intended with a few minor tweaks.

Did you already try to control your BuWizz with the XBox one? I suppose you want to you use the Brick controller app for that. My fear is that you will introduce too much lag to control this buggy.

[technic_addict]

11 minutes ago, Didumos69 said:

Thanks @technic_addict! I intend to leave as many as possible options open. I just don't want this model to be associated with BuWizz by default. The default will be SBrick. You will still be able to try what you intended with a few minor tweaks.

Did you already try to control your BuWizz with the XBox one? I suppose you want to you use the Brick controller app for that. My fear is that you will introduce too much lag to control this buggy.

I asked in the appropriate forum if xbox one controller would work, but unfortunately the only response I received I didn't really understand.  What I personally would love is a battery / controller solution (which can handle buggy motors and 4 channels) which just work together with no need for an intermediary (phone / tablet).  If I had the know how, I would design and make it myself; however, hardware and software are not interests or strengths of mine.

The lag is disappointing to hear and may make my idea of running the brick controller app pointless.  With only two buwizz's; I had hope I could run your buggy beside the class one unlimited with the buggy motor upgrade which I just finished.

[ifilin]

6 hours ago, Didumos69 said:

I will migrate to the use of 2 LEGO PF AAA battery boxes combined with 2 SBricks.

Glad to read it, Diederik (I didn't buy yet Buwizzes) . And Sbricks will glad too.

This Buggy will lost some speed, but I want to say, Madoca's Baja moves very well with 2 sbricks and 4 L-motors (especially with bluetooth joystick).

Therefore, I think, Greyhound will move excellent. Thank You for plan to prepare the instruction.

P.S. It seems, I've got all parts to build (including 8 yellow shock absorbers)

Edited May 25, 2018 by ifilin

[Zerobricks]

Do you have GPS on when connecting to Buwizz? Try turning it on.

[Didumos69]

13 hours ago, Zerobricks said:

Do you have GPS on when connecting to Buwizz? Try turning it on.

You know from personal experience? I always have location turned on, but GPS is only activated when some app is using it. You really mean GPS should be active?

EDIT: @Zerobricks, I just tried with GPS active in the background, but it makes no difference. Connecting with my phone requires many attempts. Once connected, it works fine.

Edited May 26, 2018 by Didumos69

[Didumos69]

15 hours ago, technic_addict said:

What I personally would love is a battery / controller solution (which can handle buggy motors and 4 channels) which just work together with no need for an intermediary (phone / tablet).

Yes, what we need is a programmable Bluetooth controller, one that you can upload profiles to from a PC, so there is no need for an intermediary device.

15 hours ago, technic_addict said:

With only two buwizz's; I had hope I could run your buggy beside the class one unlimited with the buggy motor upgrade which I just finished.

It would be awesome to see both models driving around side by side. There must be a way to realize that.

[kbalage]

33 minutes ago, Didumos69 said:

It would be awesome to see both models driving around side by side. There must be a way to realize that.

I have the smaller version of the class one unlimited built at the moment but it's not difficult to put together again the bigger one as well. Once the instructions are finalized (and I'll have some time) I'm 100% sure I will build yours so the buggies will run side by side 

[kbalage]

@Didumos69 I think it's better to continue the weight discussion here :) So let's see the math:

2 BuWizz units - 136g

2 AAA units with batteries + 2 Sbricks with extension cables / 2 IR recievers - 220g + 40g = 260g

2 Lego rechargeable battery boxes + 2 Sbricks / 2 IR recievers - 150g + 40g = 190g

You can plan the weight modifications according to this.

 

[Didumos69]

1 hour ago, kbalage said:

@Didumos69 I think it's better to continue the weight discussion here :) So let's see the math:

2 BuWizz units - 136g

2 AAA units with batteries + 2 Sbricks with extension cables / 2 IR recievers - 220g + 40g = 260g

2 Lego rechargeable battery boxes + 2 Sbricks / 2 IR recievers - 150g + 40g = 190g

You can plan the weight modifications according to this.

Thanks! It appears the LEGO rechargeable lipo's are the lightest alternative. Also @Marxpek's note about attaching 2 L-motors and a service to a single power source in the other thread pointed in that direction. But it's still significantly heavier than 2 BuWizz's and will only give me 7.2 volt.

Altogether this is not making things easier. I have to take some time to think about my options. If only @Ron1 would be a bit more responsive to the issues reported in the BuWizz thread so we know they are being addressed. @kbalage, you seem to be a BuWizz ambassador as well, don't you have some influence?

[kbalage]

7 hours ago, Didumos69 said:

. @kbalage, you seem to be a BuWizz ambassador as well, don't you have some influence?

I'll try to do my best but I can't promise anything...

[Marxpek]

@Didumos69 i have always been wondering, does this beast even need 2 buwizz? I think it should be possible to power 4 L-motors and a servo from 1; (from philo's page) at 12v the L-motor draws 6 watt (=500ma, sounds reasonable), makes 24 watt plus the servo, 1 buwizz should be able to deliver 45w, even powering all 4 from the same port should be no issue, according to the tech specs..

So i would say 1 is enough? did you try? it might fix all control issues, and even more weight reduction (or keep the 2nd in for when the first runs dry, that will drain faster of course..)

[technic_addict]

1 hour ago, Marxpek said:

@Didumos69 i have always been wondering, does this beast even need 2 buwizz? I think it should be possible to power 4 L-motors and a servo from 1; (from philo's page) at 12v the L-motor draws 6 watt (=500ma, sounds reasonable), makes 24 watt plus the servo, 1 buwizz should be able to deliver 45w, even powering all 4 from the same port should be no issue, according to the tech specs..

So i would say 1 is enough? did you try? it might fix all control issues, and even more weight reduction (or keep the 2nd in for when the first runs dry, that will drain faster of course..)

 

On 12/8/2017 at 11:39 AM, kbalage said:

 

 

The values you are using are under load but may not be under full load or temporary stalled conditions.  Under stall conditions 4 L motors can generate ~48W which is more than the buwizz spec of 45W.  I am not sure if anyone has actually measured and tested buwizz to verify their claimed specifications as of yet.

1 buwizz can handle 4 L's and a servo in normal mode but can overload in fast mode as you can see in the video which @kbalage did above which doesn't even include a servo.

The buwizz seems to handle a lot of current per channel but not a lot if all channels are being used.  At 45W it is only 1.22 A / channel at 9.2V

 

[scifunk]

First off this really is a sublime build, worthy of being a Lego release. Well done.

Secondly, the grey 'I' beams on the rear trailing arms, could you not use two 3x3 'L' beams instead, mounted at 180 degrees to each other, then you could go all black?

Thirdly, could you keep the buwizz units for the power and attach Sbricks for better control or does this introduce too much lag?

Edited May 27, 2018 by scifunk

[Didumos69]

1 hour ago, scifunk said:

First off this really is a sublime build, worthy of being a Lego release. Well done.

Secondly, the grey 'I' beams on the rear trailing arms, could you not use two 3x3 'L' beams instead, mounted at 180 degrees to each other, then you could go all black?

Thirdly, could you keep the buwizz units for the power and attach Sbricks for better control or does this introduce too much lag?

Thanks!

The dog bones along the sides of the trailing arms are indeed a bit out of color, but any other solutions would be less stiff. In this case I did't want to make any trade-off towards aesthetics.

Using BuWizz as a battery box and SBrick for control sounds nice, but I would still have to connect to the BuWizzes with the BuWIzz app and turn them to max power with some control and then switch to the SBrick app.

[Permo]

So far I am still enjoying my 2x V2 receiver with third party LiPo battery, a very fast and powerfull combination.

Only downside is the range on the IR remote and outside performance, inside it is very fast and responsive.

[scifunk]

On 27/05/2018 at 6:41 AM, Didumos69 said:

Thanks!

The dog bones along the sides of the trailing arms are indeed a bit out of color, but any other solutions would be less stiff. In this case I did't want to make any trade-off towards aesthetics.

Using BuWizz as a battery box and SBrick for control sounds nice, but I would still have to connect to the BuWizzes with the BuWIzz app and turn them to max power with some control and then switch to the SBrick app.

I'm sure the two L pieces would offer the same rigidity. One the right way up and the other upside down. 

I saw something recently and Im sure once you set the buwizz to max power it doesnt need the app after that, and you can use Sbrick for total control. 

[mj002]

I built the body separately, so good, massive stable body... I like that model is modular. Some pictures  Did you think, that the body could easily be demountable?  I know losing its robustness, but maybe an interesting idea. Now about 15-20 places fixing and difficult to access. Now without breaking can't  assemble and disassemble the body to the chassis.

 

On 2018. 05. 26. at 10:52 AM, kbalage said:

I have the smaller version of the class one unlimited built at the moment but it's not difficult to put together again the bigger one as well. Once the instructions are finalized (and I'll have some time) I'm 100% sure I will build yours so the buggies will run side by side 

@kbalage If you are very curious, I have a built-in buggy in Budapest and we can do a common Buggy test. It would be nice to have a meeting with a master

Edited May 28, 2018 by mj002

[AFOLegofan66]

I am building this also and plan to use two buwizz. I have no trouble using two as I have used them in @Lox Lego's recent mustang. Thanks for the plans...so far so good!!

[technic_addict]

Many people building this and lots of different body designs!  Patiently waiting for photo instructions so I can build it :)

[Didumos69]

7 hours ago, scifunk said:

I'm sure the two L pieces would offer the same rigidity. One the right way up and the other upside down. 

The dog bone's main function is to reduce torsional flex and I doubt if using two separate pieces would have the same effect. But if it's good enough, feel free to make this change yourself and post about it here.

2 hours ago, mj002 said:

I built the body separately, so good, massive stable body... I like that model is modular. Some pictures  Did you think, that the body could easily be demountable?  I know losing its robustness, but maybe an interesting idea. Now about 15-20 places fixing and difficult to access. Now without breaking can't  assemble and disassemble the body to the chassis

Nice pictures! I agree it would be nice to have bodywork that can be demounted easily. The reason why I did not invest in such a thing is that - too me - the interwovenness between body and chassis adds to the overall rigidity of the complete build. If I would make the body demountable while holding on to that interwovenness, I believe it would be a pain to remove or install it. But you could give it a try yourself and share your findings .

Update: @technic_addict, @kbalage, @bj51, @ifilin, @Zerobricks, @Permo, gave the whole 'Migrating to SBrick'-plan a little more thought. I'm sorry @bj51 and @ifilin, but I think I will stick to the BuWizz's. What really annoys me, is that quite a few people are having issues with BuWizz and that BuWizz is not really giving the support they should. However, this model was built around BuWizz's. I did all the testing and fine-tuning to make it's rigidity and sustainability match the power of 2 BuWizzes. And when the BuWizzes connect properly - and I have found a way that works for me - it is so much fun to drive this buggy around in ludicrous mode. Besides all that, switching to SBrick and LEGO battery boxes (LIPO or not) would add so much weight, it would undo all my efforts to reduce weight.

I also feel an urge coming up to get my hands on those new 42083 parts and start tinkering with them. Time for something new.

So for once and for all: This model is done (mainly addressed to myself). And sorry for the confusion. @technic_addict, this should also speed up the process of making instructions. That will be the next step.

Edited May 28, 2018 by Didumos69

[bj51]

No problem, I'll try to build it anyway. That is, if my current project leaves me enough spare parts...

[technic_addict]

@Didumos69 I was debating giving the yellow black version a go; however, I noticed in the parts list qty. 7 of part 60483 (liftarm 1 x 2 Thick with Pin Hole and Axle) which does not exist in yellow.  Will I be able to use part 43857 ( liftarm 1x2) instead?