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Thanks for all the positive comments. The pricing certainly has spiked some discussion, so I will comment to that further down in this post, but let me first answer the other questions.

17 hours ago, BrickbyBrickTechnic said:

Just when  I thought you weren't gonna finish this, you did! HoF. This is probably my favorite MOC ever. :wub::wub:

EDIT: Video please!

I will make a video of all the functions, but it will take some time. Days are short here in the Netherlands and I have to rely on natural light for the shooting.

 

17 hours ago, Aventador2004 said:

Definitely hall of fame! Your work continuously amazes me!

Btw, when will your AMG GT R be shown?

Thanks. The AMG is finished and ready for shipment, but my client lives in Puerto Rico and as you can imagine he has other priorities at the moment. I'll post the model when I have shipped it to him, but I have no idea when this will be.

 

13 hours ago, Blakbird said:

I'd be willing to bet that the parts alone are about $1500 at average Bricklink prices based on my building of many such sized models over the years.  For even one of them, you are looking at probably 30 hours in labor to order and track all those parts.  Even if you value your time very little, that is several hundred dollars in labor.  Then to make a kit you also have to sort and pack all those parts which for 4000 parts is probably another 10 hours.  21% of the price (~$700) is VAT which has nothing to do with the model and goes straight to the government.  So the actual "profit" here is probably only a few hundred dollars per model, and that's not accounting for any of the time spent designing it and making the instructions.  As someone who has made a lot of instructions, I can say that there really isn't any money in it.  You never break even for the time spent.

Based on how many people will even buy instructions for a large model like this much less a kit, I'd guess it will take 5-10 years to sell them all.  I don't think any of my instructions have *ever* sold 200 copies, and that's for only a few dollars.

But getting back to the model, it is just incredible.  Really looking forward to the video to see how all those functions work.  I have built a couple of Jeroen's car models and they are top notch.  The F-14 is one of my favorite planes and this is a great rendition.  

I'd like to see a photo of it next to another model for scale because it is hard to understand how big it is.

I'll make photo with some reference for scale. A LEGO Technic figure is about the right scale I think.

 

8 hours ago, Jurss said:

Very good model

but hose wings ... 

Is that a Freudian typo or do you refer to the pneumatic hoses? :laugh: These hoses are tough to work with, they are so out of scale that I normally don't use pneumatics. However in these wings I could not think of another option.

 

2 hours ago, MangaNOID said:

this is in my opinion a more than perfect technic set. I would love to have this as a set. 

Its a shame you can't sell this design to TLC and then they could on sell to us customers at a more affordable price but more sets of course (I can't afford your asking price) what's a set with 4000 parts worth with not too many PF? $500?

do Lego ideas winners receive gratuities? This would hands down get 10,000 supporters. 

I love how you haven't panelled it all up. Technic should show its bits :wacko:

Thanks. If I would put this model on LEGO ideas the first thing that would happen is that I sign away the rights on this model, regardless of the number of votes. And if even the Landrover of Sheepo didn't get through the selection committee I have very little hopes that such a military plane would go through.

Just now, KD123 said:

The only thing I could offer as a suggestion is to hide the pneumatic hose and electrical wires within the stand somehow and to further cover up the power supply as the grey box and orange switch take away from an otherwise masterpiece!  Double wow!

Thanks for the advice. I'll take another look at the stand, there is indeed room for improvement.

 

1 hour ago, brunojj1 said:

To those who don´t know: Jeroen was an official Lego designer for some while. So if he would see any chance to get this produced there, he would have done for sure! So don´t teach him what to do or not. Chances to make this an official Lego set by putting it on Lego Ideas are zero.

A price comparison to any known Technic or USC set is not valid, because these are produced cost efficient in industrial manner and sold by vast numbers, production costs lowered to an unimaginable minimum in relation to store prices! As blakbird already mentioned: the estimated parts costs alone would be around 1,500 USD average BL prices. PF parts value don´t count as heavily in total at a piece count of more than 4,000 to consider, including pneumatics and flex axles.

E.g. why people were asking (and some were paying !) 5,000 USD for the sold out 10179 UCS Millenium Falcon years ago? Because the market price to which people buy and sell, depends on supply and demand situation. If there are only 200 limited Tomcat sets, not many will buy and it´s supposed to be this way! Then, after some while, depending on sales numbers, the designer still can reconsider if to sell the last sets for a higher price, or in opposite lower the price within a certain time span to sell them faster. It´s all his business! So what do others care about and those who wouldn´t buy it anyway for any price?

So a few words on the price. As Brunojj1 so eloquently puts it, it is up to the market to determine whether the price is right. Nobody is forced to buy this and it certainly is not a necessity of life. Most people think the price is too high and I can understand if you feel that way. For me this is also a learning experience. I have not done extensive marketresearch to see what the market is for high-end technical models (if there is such a market at all). Maybe there is nobody in the world interested. If so, I will lose on this deal and I will learn from it for my next project. And maybe there is a market. In which case I will be able to spend significantly more time on designing more models (including models without a commission). I love what I am doing when I am designing with LEGO Technic and finding a way to make a living out of it is an interesting journey and this is a step towards (or maybe not) that goal.

Thanks again for all the positive and constructive comments. Part of the love of what I am doing is coming from that feedback.

Jeroen

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First of all, excellent model with a mad amount of functions put into the model! Can't wait for a video.

I agree with others on the stand though, that could look a little better (wire, hose and BB hidden better).

 

As for the price, it's steep and something I will never toss at one Lego model. If you did this with the Aston (my favorite real life car and Lego supercar) I would have a very empty shelf. Planes are lower on the ladder than the Aston for me, so I think you see where I stand on this. However, as Blakbird listed all the stuff that goes into it (and I agree on the 1500 euro bricklink estimate, it might have only 1 motor, but alot of pneumatics which aren't exactly cheap either) it is a little easier to understand. Still a little too high for my taste, but I seem to remember Paul Boratko (not sure it was him) mentioning that these prices aren't that rare for custom build projects.

 

That said, I wish buying instructions was an option, just to build it from my own parts (I think I got 70-80% of this already) and see what cool mechanisms you made for the functions.

 

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This is awesome. So many functions packed in to such a great shaped plane. I look forward to the video once you have time to do so.

Kudos for being open about experimenting with custom set sales - I genuinely hope you have success selling a bunch of them to those with deeper pockets than me! :)

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14 hours ago, Jeroen Ottens said:

Is that a Freudian typo or do you refer to the pneumatic hoses? :laugh:

that's typo - needed "those"

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47 minutes ago, Kong harald said:

Can the Aircraft fly?

No, it is lego...

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7 hours ago, Kong harald said:

Can the Aircraft fly?

Yes, but only as far as you can throw it...

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I want to build this MOC and would pay some good money for plans. I'm sure I have all the parts necessary to build this. I hope you plan to sell the building instructions in the near future. Let me know if you do!!

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Wow, that is a very impressive model. I look forward to seeing a video of the functions.

Have you considered any IP infringement issues? 

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Awesome model, I love the concept with the stand, and the see-through body to observe all the mechanism in function. :thumbup::thumbup:

The intakes are spot on, and the front view is just beautiful. It transmits the words "Speed" and "Power" perfectly.

 

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*oh2* It's done! Incredible model, love how it shows much of the mechanical innards, but at the same time is sleek and aggressively styled plane. :thumbup: That front view... :wub:

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Looking awesome! One question though - have you experimented with different designs for the nose? Looking at some pictures of the real thing it seems like yours’ nose is a bit stubby/blunt.

Edited by Bartybum

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10 hours ago, JamesJT said:

Wow, that is a very impressive model. I look forward to seeing a video of the functions.

Have you considered any IP infringement issues? 

The F-14 came out in 1972 and has been retired since 2006 so he should be good.

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Anybody else's jaw drop when they saw this for the first time? This is one of the most amazing creations I have seen in a while! I cannot wait for a video to show off all of the functions.

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On 11/18/2017 at 5:35 AM, Lox Lego said:

This is what I was thinking....

Yes there is tons of work put into a build, I absolutely agree. And I don’t doubt that many many hours were spent on such a build. As a pro builder, I get the sale of instructions. The price and small reward. But... as other have said.... there is 1 m-motor. And a battery box. Most expensive parts in a build are usually the motors. I just can see any justification for the price.... let alone the remaining 20 sales with a price jack. Sorry... just my 2 cents 

@Lox Lego  I love your builds and love your contributions to the community.  Your supercar builds are second to none and your have taken some building methods to near-perfection.. .. so take the following with a grain of salt. 

Your rational here is just plain incorrect.  M motors, or PF functions period may have the appearance of being the most expensive elements out there, but a well-seasoned builder such as yourself should know different.  Pneumatic pumps, cylinders, rare panels, hoses, hell, even the rare flex axles often cost similar if not more amounts.  Technic is not different than regular system bricks in that if an element is desired and rare, it will become expensive, regardless of actual size, function, or cost to manufacture it (think about the satellite disk from the 2007 UCS MF and #3 red connector). 

 

Also, and this applies to other parties as well, part of being in a community is getting to know the members out there.  Before any attack on Jeroen's pricing of the model was levied towards him, one ought to know a little about Jeroen.  As a long-time, veteran member of the community one ought to have gathered that there is likely no mal-intent behind his pricing.  He likely is not trying to gouge any buyers, has actually been a professional builder for TLG (therefore has a better understanding of pricing and what people will pay), etc., and is not guilty of anything those assuming the worst of his pricing are accusing him of.  As others have said, he will not sell all his sets, and your reasoning that led you to your conclusion of him earning a million dollars is just plain error in reasoning due to extrapolation.  I can see your frustration if the end result is making the guy a millionaire, especially in a community about toys.  But as has been a well-discussed topic in the community now for years..... no one is becoming rich off this stuff, even the popular @sariel and his wonderful youtube channel. 

A few people will pay the price, and it will help Jeroen recoup some of the $$ he has spent in the expensive hobby of Lego building. Maybe even make a couple of bucks.  Good for him. But we certainly aren't gonna see him on the front of Forbes' magazine any time soon because of this, or other Lego models he has created.......

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I know a deja vu feeling when I feel one.

2499570474_2771b71f54_z.jpg

At the first glance I thought I saw it already but then I realized that it is an evolution of the model.

F-14 Tomcat back from 2010

I wanted to double check it and BAM! The piece between the vertical stabilizers and the wing design gave you away! But I'm happy you moved from studded to studless.

Edited by Omikron

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13 hours ago, nerdsforprez said:

@Lox Lego  I love your builds and love your contributions to the community.  Your supercar builds are second to none and your have taken some building methods to near-perfection.. .. so take the following with a grain of salt

Hi Nerdsforprez,

Yes, I may have been irrational. And I do agree with your points and would like to provide an apology to the community and Jeroen. It really is not my business regarding the pricing of anything anyone makes, and for that I am sorry. 
The parts for the build are indeed expensive, and you are correct about certain parts that have much more of a price due to how rare it is perceived. I just thought of all the folks that would love to build it, but will never get the chance. But that is perhaps what makes it such a rare set.
This is my fundamental idea of Lego, build and share. That way others can enjoy the build.
I do wish that Jeroen gets a few sales as I know the time and effort to build such a masterpiece is extremely time consuming and hundreds of hours spent.

Edited by Lox Lego

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This is a very beautiful model.  I love that you can see the insides and the mechanisms, yet it still looks like it has a shape.  Excellent work, Jeroen!

I made an Excel sheet for @Lox Lego and anyone who would like to see why custom sets are so expensive compared to official sets.  I used numbers close to the ones mentioned in this topic.  There's a bunch of assumptions in the calculations, and you can play with the numbers to see how it affects the sale price.  The labor rate that's in the sheet is not very realistic - it's about half of what a business would charge.  And yes, it is a business - just look at the number of employees required to complete this project in one year.

Good luck with your venture @Jeroen Ottens, I hope you are successful.

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18 hours ago, Lox Lego said:

Hi Nerdsforprez,

Yes, I may have been irrational. And I do agree with your points and would like to provide an apology to the community and Jeroen. It really is not my business regarding the pricing of anything anyone makes, and for that I am sorry. 
The parts for the build are indeed expensive, and you are correct about certain parts that have much more of a price due to how rare it is perceived. When I first looked at the pricing it just seemed so disconnected from reality. I thought of all the folks that would love to build it, but will never get the chance. But that is perhaps what makes it such a rare set.
This is my fundamental idea of Lego, build and share. That way others can have a cool set on their wall and be proud.
I will refrain from discussing the price of an item in future, it is really not my business as you (and others) have said. 
I do wish that Jeroen gets a few sales as I know the time and effort to build such a masterpiece is extremely time consuming and hundreds of hours spent. 
My apologies, Loxlego

Not  a problem at all.  But wonderful response nonetheless.  We'll put the issue to bed and get back to Jeroen's wonderful build.  

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Wonderfull Design !

To answer some point to the price, it is a bit expensive but easily understood.

Personnaly, when people ask me to build something, we talk often in k€ and not €, because even with 20h of works plus parts + margins, we goes over 1000€. And what I do with 20hours of work ? Mailny machine, car, truck etc (<2000parts). at the end, after the taxe, it remains less than a third for incomes to live. So have to sell many project in month to get a correct salary, and of course spend time to make instructions, order parts, sort and repack and make proposal (how to announce a price for a customer without make some lego before ? -> always no paid time). That is why I prefer sell a unique model, with no building instructions (mainly for industrial because they understand the cost of this), only design, order, check and delivery. But of course, I have already the sale of the building instructions which help.

I have a regular job, and make this only for interesting project from serious people (because on my spare time), but I trully understand the price of this tomcat. I certainly would have put a bit less, but not goes too far. People do not realize the cost behind a company.

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Congratulations to @Jeroen Ottens! This build looks awesome!

But if I may say I second the other opinions expressed above. I do not appreciate the business model, which I consider almost a robbery. Instead of sharing cool ideas and interacting with the community; this is just a rip off. My mere opinion is that eurobricks should have just taken down the page at first place, since the whole post is just a commercial advertisement of an overpriced product. Although, I believe the provocative pricing would prove quite inviting for Lepin and other companies in the end...

Anyway I guess my opinion is not that important, since the exclusive community may feel differently. In this regard, I wish @Jeroen Ottens successful sales and would like to congratulate him on more time for his wonderful build.

 

Edited by Mysh

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38 minutes ago, Mysh said:

 I do not appreciate the business model, which I consider almost a robbery. Instead of sharing cool ideas and interacting with the community; this is just a rip off. 

Do you understand how a business works? Prices are not pulled out of thin air. Labor, materials and operating expenses get added up, a profit margin is applied, and you end up with a price.

Affordability is completely separate from the cost of manufacturing. It is only a factor in the amount of potential sales. 

If you or others cannot afford to pay this price, move along. There is no need to disparage what Jeroen is doing. Do you walk into Lamborghini dealerships and declare that "this is highway robbery and a ripoff"? 

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