[MOC] Calypso Hughes 269b/300 Helicopter

[MangaNOID]

current state of build... (page 2 near the end for more finished details)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Start of Topic:

I cant believe I dismantled the awesome lawn mower c model by Piotr Gurdek (hope that's right) of 42039 believing I could get a helicopter out of it.

well I will continue but but I have to change from c model to MOC as there just isn't enough parts I want to use for a good helicopter.

I started out thinking i could get cyclic control pitch with the separated wheel hubs but it just doesn't work. so I continued with what you see but it just doesn't do it for me as there are virtually no functions. anyway here is what I have so far but I'l be ordering some 9396 blades and other bits for a proper swash plate. I'll also change the colours as this at the moment looks like an 80's snow skiing suit somehow. its going to mostly be based on the Hughes chopper from the Calypso ship of Jacques Cousteau. I'm trying to keep it as simple as possible in design as they are a pretty elegant helicopter in my view. when main rotor spins the rotors lift up to horizontal, which is somewhat realistic i guess. 

 

 

 

Edited June 4, 2018 by MangaNOID

[Jurss]

Not bad, even at this stage

[MattL600]

I think it looks quite nice

[BrickbyBrickTechnic]

This is very nice! There is lots of room for improvement but this is a great start.

[aminnich]

Nice light weight helicopter!! 

[muffinbrick]

It looks only as a sketch, but it's not bad. Somehow it reminds me old TV series for children - Skippy, the bush kangaroo :D

[mocbuild101]

Well I wouldn't call it a failed MOC, but it's certainly bare minimum...

[ColletArrow]

Hey, as my teachers used to tell us (quite a lot, actually) FAIL = First Attempt In Learning. Another of those pointless acronyms, but I'm sure if you remove the restriction of this being a c-model you could build this into an interesting MOC. I would be interested to see where this goes.

[MangaNOID]

thanks for the comments all it all helps with motivation sometimes.

I have decided to try and get a somewhat to scale model with this and it will be finished in yellow white and Black  and will look way better of course (I hope) than this snow skiing  bare bones template.

this project almost got axed as I have struggled big time to get a working swash plate with cyclic and collective. now there are plenty of designs out there but they are very large and I didn't want to overbear this chopper with oversize swash plate. as it is, I realised I need 3 rotors instead of 2 to replicate the Hughes 269 

anyway I spent plenty of hours this week (at work) sketching up possible designs, failing and trying again. I finally think I have one I'm happy with (there is still at least 1 flaw to work through) I'll try building a rough version over the weekend to see if it will work but I need a few parts that are expensive from bricklink for the proper one.

in the meantime I mocked up a triple rotor look a like top part thing to see how the size would look. I think it will be OK, just. scale of the chopper is actually good so far except the tail needs a few more studs length.

 

 

[steph77]

Hi,

As there is a copter MOC on the forum  i must be there :)

May i suggest to you to get out with the idea of a C model? It would give you so much more liberty to design the model?

About the MOC now, i particulary love the scale of it and it's global proportion.

From my experience, there are some attention point you have to fix quickly:

1 - Design of the blades : their wheight will have a considerable impact on the rotor's design and on the final look of it. You can work temporary with similated wheights on the extremities of the rotorhead. This is also helpfull to check the command's efficiency.

2 - Will it be motorize or not (personnaly i would prefer not)? This is important because of displacement of the gravity center of the MOC due to the BB. One of the main issue in helicopter MOC is the fact of to much weight on the rear of the MOC.

3 -Functionalities of the rotor head and linkage to the cockpit that must be integrated from the very begining of the design. Maybe you could be interresed by this design :

I will follow your work very closely. This is actually one excellent start point

Enjoy your build!

Edited November 22, 2017 by steph77

[MangaNOID]

hey @steph77  what a nice helicopter that is!

this is indeed no more a c model attempt and as mentioned will be trying my hardest to replicate the Hughes 269 of the Calypso ship. it will be an M motor powered thing if i can fit it in but the battery box will be hidden under a (the Calypso's) helipad if that makes sense, with the helicopter sitting and rotating 

what you see in the above photos are just a lego sketch of size parameters. I have been busting my brain trying to make a compactish swash plate and rotor head that would suit the delicateness of this chopper.

I am missing some actual parts which i have ordered but this is mostly what i have in rotor swash plate design (forgive the LDD image i am not very good in LDD and some parts I can not find in there.

 

the dark disc at the bottom should be tiles (swashplate) and the green balls get pushed up and down as they rotate on the axle.

the only problem i see with this is that it is tall and may not be very sturdy at the top end of things when its spinning.

your swashplate idea above may help stabalize things as you use another made up plate on top with a ball axle in the middle? genius! I may have to use this if mine dosn't work (which i'm doubting after seeing yours)

I do like the way mine looks though, higher up, as it kind of mimics the Hughes somewhat well in my opinion if I can keep the height of it. I only wish there were slighty shorter track rods or whatever they are called.

 

I have been sketching linkage designs also (that hurt my head even more than the swash plate) and have some solids leads but I need to finish the rotor bit first i think.

anyway I appreciate your (and anyone's) input from someone that obviously know their Lego helicopters! 

[MangaNOID]

Who would have thought that these helicopters had a piston engine! just another function to squeeze in as soon as I realised that. a flat four with belt drive up to the main and rear rotors.

attempt one was ok but the 5x7 frame started getting in the way when trying to nut out the swash plate controls.

 

so I built a 'c' frame that is surprisingly rigid and leaves plenty of room for the controls  

 

bottom part of swash plate on

I surprisingly quite close to keeping all in the right place/scale to each other. the only thing so far is the engine and belt drive are tilted front down on the real one slightly and there is no way I have the abilities room to do that. 

colours are not final and I hope to put more detail in like the real one but nutting out the mechanics still of course.

EDIT: does anyone know if there is LEGO rubber band that may fit between the two cranks to replace the chain? 

Edited November 26, 2017 by MangaNOID

[MangaNOID]

I think I have a working swashplate 

 

This week has sapped all brain energy trying to get this working.

All the cyclic functions will be (are) operated through one axle link saving precious room, I am very happy with that.

I had to re build the whole thing too as the rear output to the tail rotor was too high in my scale of opinion so I dropped it one stud. swashplate is really still too high but no way can I get it lower keeping all this functioning as compact.

the 2 DBG axles are the collective controls. they stick out as they need to go to the very left of the cockpit.

axle with green bit on is of course the cyclic controls (still need to make a fancy control stick of course). this will hopefully be moved a few studs to make the helicopter left hand operating, as I think it was on the Calypso, leaving room for 2 passengers.

Video of operating. (the red liftarms etc are just there to support the dark tan axle sticking up from the swashplate suspension arms) hope it looks like it should for swashplate movement?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[steph77]

Hey!

It's beginning to work!

I'am surprised by your translation systems but why not? Usually it is made used of a 90 degree rotation/translation system.

Good work, may I invite you to build a really solid structure in order of locking every parasite torsion in the moving parts. This frame is a must have at this point...

I am waiting next step  ...the connection to the blades ...

 

Edited December 3, 2017 by steph77

[MangaNOID]

5 hours ago, steph77 said:

 

I'am surprised by your translation systems but why not? Usually it is made used of a 90 degree rotation/translation system.

 

 

Would love to see what you mean by that if you have photos etc?

5 hours ago, steph77 said:

 

Good work, may I invite you to build a really solid structure in order of locking every parasite torsion in the moving parts. This frame is a must have at this point...

 

I was a bit confused but I think you are referring to the control input movement? If so then yes it sure needs this and integration to chassis is going to be challenging! But I am really enjoying this challenge.

thanks for your input 

[steph77]

 

23 hours ago, MangaNOID said:

Would love to see what you mean by that if you have photos etc?

I was a bit confused but I think you are referring to the control input movement? If so then yes it sure needs this and integration to chassis is going to be challenging! But I am really enjoying this challenge.

thanks for your input 

@efferman did a perfect model to demonstrate what i mean:

 

 

[MangaNOID]

Ok I still don't follow what 90 degree rotation/translation system means. Even after looking at effermans creation. If everyone else usually does it, am I missing something really important? 

Im rebuilding this thing again as it looks way too messy and big and too much flex in the sideways cyclic movement.  I need it slightly more compact and I want the engine on an angle like the real one, 

so if I'm missing something crucial please let me know as I feel like I have made a loaf of bread, that looks like bread, it smells like bread, but everyone except me knows it won't taste like bread...haha.

[steph77]

1 hour ago, MangaNOID said:

Ok I still don't follow what 90 degree rotation/translation system means.

Ok,

Here is basically how it usually works:

- Pink pins are articulation points fixed to the main structure, all other parts are moving parts,

- The yellow 90° parts (3X3 half liftarm) are the collective control shafts;

- The red parts are the cyclic left/right controls;

- And the green parts are the cyclic front/back controls;

The joystick need to be connected to both red and yellow GREEN parts,

The collective handle need to be connected to yellow parts.

I hope this will make it a little more clear and that you'll understand my surprise looking at your translation system to convert the movements,

Do not hesitate if you need more details:)

Steph.

 

 

Edited December 4, 2017 by steph77
corrections in color coding explaination

[MangaNOID]

A very elegant solution! especially when compared next to mine  I understand what you are saying now. thank you @steph77much appreciate your time and knowledge

no doubt this is more like real helicopter linkages too, which is what I should be looking at.

I'll try building this to see how it operates in the space I have. It seems that there would be 2 links to the cyclic control stick instead of one which I really wanted to achieve, but once again I have probably overlooked the real setup on the real thing which would have 2, now thinking about it. I need to research now.

the one thing that strikes me though is that the arching movement of the 90 degree swing will lessen the upward movement transferred to the swashplate. especially when the yellow collective has been lifted. perhaps this doesn't matter though. also the push pull action needed to operate the RED is giving me a headache on how to translate to a control stick left right.

 I'll have a play. Ill try and make this type of link work as its just better and more real solution. thank you!

[MangaNOID]

I did a lot of searching through internet files and found this in a maintenance book for the 269! Gold. I should have done this before. 

 

It shows how good and acurate the linkage design of @steph77 above is. 

I won't clog the airways but I'll hopefully post back in a week or 2 with a fitting solution to the space and scale and parts I have. I may need to bricklink the ball axle with grooves though that slips on the axles to help though.

[TechnicRCRacer]

20 hours ago, MangaNOID said:

also the push pull action needed to operate the RED is giving me a headache on how to translate to a control stick left right.

I saw something online that could do something similar. It had a link attached to a 3 x 3 bent lift arm, with another link at the other end. I have seen it used on PF remotes to change from up/down to left/right.  

Check the top left picture in this photo. 

(Doing this from phone, please tell me if this is too big)

Edited December 6, 2017 by TechnicRCRacer

[steph77]

22 hours ago, MangaNOID said:

 also the push pull action needed to operate the RED is giving me a headache on how to translate to a control stick left right.

Just imagine my headache when designing my Agusta laterally transferred commands to keep it logical

Back on your topic,The above solution gives a good idea on how to do that

About the linkage you have presented, it's a hiller-bell mechanism. The hardiest to understand.

WARNING: undigested physics

I 'am sure you've study this pictures in detail, but, to understand it you need to know one thing.

I'll say int in French language just because I have (and google too) no idea on how to translate it : PRECESSION GYROSCOPIQUE.

Ok. This physics law says that for any action on one rotating disk (the rotor is one of them) the reaction is maximal on the same point on the disk but on 90° rotation later in the rotation direction.

To be clear, if you take one hammer and hit a blade situated on the left side of the copter, the reaction will take effect 90° later, in the front position of the blade considering it rotate in clock way.

So, to understand your picture, on one hiller-bell type rotor, you need to consider any action on the joystick transferred 90° back with final blade position....

Anymore headache?  You just have to ask, I have the solution...

 

To complete this, here is a simplified model I made to illustrate the hiller bell mixing system. It is quiet different from the previous one I let you, here it is:

look closely and you will understand that the two red 3L horizontal liftarms placed just behind the seat are the mixing cranks. Each has one collective input on one extremity and one cyclic input on the other side.

The default of this build is that the back linkage was really weird, however it was functional.

Have a nice day...

[MangaNOID]

Thankyou @TechnicRCRacer that control linkage is very nice and certainly helps my head get around perpendicular link travel!

@steph77 thankyou for enlightening me about the 90 degree ‘lag’ I was not aware of this so I will try factor this in.  I had a quick read and I understand it (as much as I need to anyway [I hope]) however I don’t think it will be too much of a concern (unless I understand it wrong) from the picture I presented of the 269 linkages it appears that the lateral links are ‘reversed’ so when the control stick goes left the swashplate tips up on the left. However the main rotor blades have a 90 degree trailing edge pitch control rod (counter clockwise rotation) fixing everything?

EDIT: I may have the above a little wrong as its a trailing edge control rod, so the pilot stick goes left the swashplate drops to the left. Or, the right side lifts to negate that side thrust  get it right soon.

All this shows that the swashplate I posted previously is again, far from anything real. Although I did incorporate a lateral pitch mixer in a sense

I hope that I have all this right now and can start designing?

The connections from stick to swashplate will in no way be as complex as the real 269 as there is no space for that many links and idler arms. But I will take the concept and simplify to my best and with approval from everyone here (especially Steph77) 

Edited December 6, 2017 by MangaNOID

[MangaNOID]

Version 2 of swashplate...

I'm not decided if I should carry on with my plan or change the build to just collective controls. there really is very little room if I want too keep it looking like a Hughes 269. which I do. but its Technic...

Version 2 has not really taken into consideration any of the info that was helped to me by @steph77 etc. I just couldn't make those links work in this tight space.

one of the problems is that I am keeping the swashplate down near the engine instead of up near the rotors to try to keep the look of the Hughes. I.e not adding too much bulk at the top otherwise it wont look right. with the swashplate down lower I can kind of hide it out of sight.

I managed to get the engine on the angle which I am happy with. the drive belt top axle can now go straight to the tail rotor as the proper one does.

 

there is still a lot of problems. or even more now. the axle for the rotors has only the connection at the bottom which makes it a little wobbly.  there is only 1 stud of movement in the swashplate on the cyclic movements (that may be enough depending on my rotor design connection)

the rotor blades don't drop down to the thrust position very easily when I dummy up the rotors. the Lego elastic bands are very thin...so I may have to get 3rd party ones that look fatter (just for the look)

short video of swashplate in action. the collective does work but i just edited it on at the end as no links are final yet.

 

 

 

as for the scale, its looking OK.

you can see that there is really not much room to work with in this skeleton of a helicopter when I dummied it in place on the old Chassis template.

 

criticism, Ideas, guidance appreciated

[steph77]

Hello!

Good to see this project is still alive

IMHO, you have a good idea on this built when thinking to not realize collective controls. It is true that there are not that much place to do it, and more important, not that much place to hide any excedent mechanics somewhere else.

Back to your current build, I think that your rotor mast would need some reinforcement. As the total mast is quiet high, the fixation on the base must be very strong and it does not seems to be actually.

It's also a good idea to work with blueprints, and I found your building is very close to it actually wich is a very good point I find.

Good work!