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Celestia’s Superb Orchid - Era II, Challenge I RESULTS POSTED

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On ‎3‎/‎19‎/‎2018 at 8:41 PM, Mesabi said:

So... How's judging going? It has been a little bit. If you need more time that's fine, but I'm excited for the next contest. :blush:

We need a couple more judges to finish up, and then a write-up over the weekend, so hopefully we can announce results early next week.

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3 minutes ago, Capt Wolf said:

We need a couple more judges to finish up, and then a write-up over the weekend, so hopefully we can announce results early next week.

That is at least a rough estimate. Thank you! :thumbup:

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Category A - Setting up camp

In answer to Colonial Governor Allcock's call, citizens from all corners of the Brick Seas flocked to Jameston to launch their expeditions in search for the superb orchid of Celestia. As a result, the settlement saw unprecedented growth, as buildings and businesses sprung up to support the expanded population. During this period of rapid expansion, the settlement saw many fine buildings added which continued to add to the vibrant, colourful and multicultural character of the settlement.

Perhaps then, it was fitting that the most iconic structure of the period belonged not to a Corlander design, but to that of an Eslandolan, Luca do Figino. In the employ of Juan Alfonso Fontonajo, do Figino designed and constructed the so called 'Basement House' @Elostirion . This inn was so named because it was the first structure in the colony to be designed with an open basement - a feature common in Eslandola, but not widespread in Corrington. Other notable designs included Uncle's rather novel tree house @Kai NRG and the grandiose Montoya. House @Bregir. The period naturally also saw the addition of many taverns and inns, amoung the most famous, The Captain's Daughter, @Mike S The Gilded Cup @Gideon and the Lavender Inn @Ayrlego

The Colonial administration, as a sign of appreciation of Juan Alfonso Frontonajo's contributions to the growth of the settlement, have announced the awarding of a free large property licence of any type in the settlement of Jameston.

Category A Results

First Place: @Elostirion Basement House

Second Place: @Kai NRG Doing it Right

Third Place: @Bregir Montoya House

As the winner, Elostirion is awarded a free large property licence of any type in the settlement of Jameston (micro scale build only required).

Category B - The Flora, Fauna, and Geography of Celestia

When Corrington was choosing which islands to settle in the East Prio Sea, The Royal Society of Natural Philosophy had lobbied hard for Celestia to be the first choice based on the rumours of the abundance of flora on the island. Little did they realise, the rumours did not do the island justice - both the flora and fauna were far more diverse than they had ever dreamed, and even now it is believed that surveys conducted to date have only just begun to scratch the surface of the islands true biological diversity.

While the results are still filtering back to the Society's headquarters in Arlinsport, the Colonial Administration has seen fit to award the following grants to some of the most exciting discoveries to date:

Juan Alfonso Fontonajo - one large educational license in the settlement of Jameston

Sir Anton Hughes - one large educational license in the settlement of Jameston

Reinhard Wolffson - one medium and one small (alternatively one large) educational license in the settlement of Jameston

All licenses only require a microbuild to activate.

In addition, the Royal Society of Natural Philosophy awards grants of 100DB to the following scientists and extends membership into the society for contributions to the listed fields of study.

Flora: Dr Thaum @Professor Thaum

Fauna: Reinhard Wolffson @Drunknok

Geography: Captain Joshua @Spud The Viking

Category B Results

First Place (A tie!): @Elostirion Mountain Goats and Yellow Highland Frogs and @Bregir Phasianus Celestiales and other Curious Birds

Second Place: @Drunknok Riverside Pond

Third Place: @Ayrlego Pith Palms and White Tigers (disqualified- challenge host) @Drunknok Nightlight Spider

Another great category with many quality builds, that again came out very close in the final judging (the difference between first and second places was 0.4!). Great work to all involved!

Category C - The Superb Orchid of Celestia

Rumours of ancient ruins have proved true, and the extent of these ruins is only just becoming understood as reports filter back into Jameston from expeditions in the field. Initial reports seem to indicate an extensive civilisation, long lost and whose ruins are slowly being reclaimed by the dense rainforest of the interior. Whilst many expeditions have turned up extraordinary ruins, the most notable so far would be those discovered by the expedition led by Oleon explorer Gideon Saulse de Bothnia. @Gideon. So impressed by his expedition's finds, the Royal Society of Natural Philosophy has announced a 150DB grant to de Bothnia, and named him a fellow of the Society! Corlander authorities have also authorised the title 'Great Explorer of Celestia' to be bestowed upon de Bothnia.

The Colonial authorities in Jameston wish to thank all expeditions who have reported back their discoveries - and in addition to de Bothnia - would like to specifically recognise the efforts of expeditions led by Eslandolan Juan Alfonso Fontonajo @Elostirion, and Corlanders  Reynald Wilkins @Mike S and Sir Anton Hughes/Sir Albert Brickingstone @Bregir. All the aforementioned members will be rewarded with prime agricultural land around the settlement of Jameston.

As for the superb orchid... well each expedition seems to have found differing orchids, all claiming them to be superb, but which is the one claimed by the natives to be the most beautiful in the world? Apparently, it depends on which natives you ask! An old Corlander saying goes 'beauty is in the eye of the beholder'... Surely this will confuse botonists attempting to name and classify the wonderful orchids of Celestia for years to come!

Category C Results

First Place: @Gideon Finding the Superb Orchid, Celestia Reward: One free large plantation license (micro build required to activate) in the settlement of Jameston; 150DB grant from the Royal Society of Natural Philosophy and induction into the Society as a Fellow. The title 'Great Explorer of Celestia'.

Second Place: @Elostirion Mysterious footprints, a vale of orchids and pure gold Reward: One free medium plantation license (micro build required to activate) in the settlement of Jameston.

Third Place (another tie): @Mike S The Superb Orchid of Celestia and @Bregir Almost coincidental...... Rewards: One free small plantation license each (micro build required to activate) in the settlement of Jameston.

Thanks to all who participated in this challenge. The standard of entries was (as usual) very high all round!

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Congrats to all the winners!  Pleased to see my entry got a second place. :pir-grin: 

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Great entries by all and my congratulations to the winners, some were completely outstanding builds! I had great fun building and watching what others built which was the main thing!

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Feedback for BotBS Challenge 1, Era II: „Celestia' Superb Orchid“

Most of the following was written some time ago, with comments about the results and some changes made today. This is meant as my personal feedback for the „orchid challenge“. Apart from the statistics parts, which is facts only, the rest is my opinion. You can agree or not, and you can use it for improvement or not. Without further ado: wall of text incoming!

 

My general experience

This was the first challenge in BotBS I actively participated in, when it started I was still new to the game. As a surprise to me, the theme centered around something I had been curious from even before I joined, something that actually played into me joining Corrington: the search for a mysterious and near-mythical orchid on the island of Celestia. One of the reasons I came up with an „explorer character“ as my sigfig was, from the very beginning, the idea to go on this search one day in the future. Little did I know the chance would come so soon!

Despite all my ideas I came up with actual builds quite late into the challenge. Lesson learned: next time I will start much sooner. There are still a lot of things I want to try out, but they will not be part of this challenge. I had great fun with planning and building all my entries, and I am proud of the results. In the end I liked the concept of this challenge enough to keep my participating character „out in the wild“ for a while longer. I hope to find some more time for that soon.

Waiting for the results became increasingly irritating over time, mostly due to an almost complete lack of communication from „above“ and the sheer time it lasted (well over eight weeks!). When the results were finally out... eh, what a letdown. Not at all what I had expected, even incomprehensible in some parts. More on that below.

 

Statistics

  • Start: November 10th, 2017

  • End: January 31th, 2018 (extended from January 15th on January 8th)

  • Duration: 83 days / 11 weeks and 5 days (before extension: 64 days / 9 weeks and 3 days)

  • Results posted on: March 31th , 2018

  • Categories and prices announced: Category A (1 main price), Category B (3 main prices plus 3 subcategory prices), Category C (3 main prices)

  • Prices given out: Category A (1 main price), Category B (two 1st prices, one 2nd and one 3rd price, 3 sub-prices as announced), Category C (one 1st and one 2nd price, two 3rd prices)

  • Number of entries, sorted by faction and category:

     

    COR

    OL

    ESL

    SR

    Category A

    8

    3

    6

    1

    18

    Category B

    9

    1

    3

    4

    17

    Category C

    5

    2

    2

    1

    10

    22

    6

    11

    6

    45

  • Analysis: A total of 45 builds were entered into the challenge, but they are very unevenly distributed. In all three categories Corrington has more entries than any other faction, and in total all other factions combined only have one more entry than Corrington on its own. Highest overall attendance was from Corrington. Lowest overall attandence was from Sea Rats, with only one player taking part (Professor Thaum). The most entries from different players were for „Category A“. The numbers for „Category B“ are misleading, as some people posted more than one entry (examples: Drunknok with 5 entries, Professor Thaum with 4 entries), while others posted none; it does not show in this numbers, but there were less people participating in „Category B“ than there were in „Category C“ (9 in B vs. 10 in C). In summary: of the 18 players who entered the challenge by posting an entry for „Category A“, 9 posted at least one entry in „Category B“, 10 posted an entry for „Category C“.

 

The Good – Things I liked

  • Challenge presentation. The challenge had a great presentation, all categories were presented and explained well – an easy point of reference, and a good introduction.

  • Premise of the challenge. The basic idea for this challenge is just brilliant! It fits the Corrington character perfectly, builds on existing background and asks for everybody to flesh it out. Everybody can easily come up with reasons to search for the „supreme orchid – be it scientific interest, lookingthe search for adventures, the will to please the gods, the will to make money from the orchid itself, or simply the search for fame.

  • General category design. The categories made it pretty clear, you went through the stages of „set up the expedition“ - „explain your findings in the jungle“ - „describe the supreme orchid“. All of these had different specifics, with an overarching theme to hold them all together. If you had at least a bit of interest in jungle flaura or fauna (more on this below), this provided plenty of options for builds.

  • Inter-faction collaboration. I loved that there were many entries working together on one coherent story. Well done!

  • Communication during the challenge itself. Any question I had during the challenge was answered quickly and friendly. The extension of the deadline was reasonable, and communicated at the right time (one week prior to it, basically giving everybody three more weeks from there).

 

The ??? - Things I did not understand

  • Price distribution. The „default category“ (as in: you have to post an entry for it to participate at all) was obviously the most contested one, but it came with only one (huge) price. I see that there is some kind of reasoning behind this, but I do not agree with it. I would have preferred more prices at an overall lower level, for example „medium property of any kind – small property of any kind – 50DB“.

  • Focus on the jungle. Once you „are in“, by posting an entry for the first category, you are forced to come up with a „jungle based build“. If you had, for whatever reasons, no „jungle inspiration“, or simply lacked the parts for some proper vegetation, you had nothing to build for two of the three categories. While I personally have no issue with that (I still have many ideas for future builds), both the overall attendance as well as the numbers for the different categories (see above) clearly show that I am in a minority with my opinion.

  • Starting in Jameston. Why did people have to build (and license) in Jameston to enter the challenge? You can prepare an expedition anywhere, and most likely it would be easier if you prepare it „at home“. I have more problems with this (see below), but to me it would make more sense – and possibly encourage more builds all in all – to let people start such an expedition wherever they want.

  • No faction prices. This was a feature for all challenges from Era I, and I have yet to see an explanation why this was dropped. Offering something for the „best“ faction could have more likely than not led to a higher participation from non-Corries. It would also have encouraged working together as a faction, instead of "each on his/her own".

  • Promise of a developing map. The challenge was presented with the possibility of a „developing map“, but absolutely nothing of the likes happened. My advice would be to not promise something that you are not absolutely sure you can deliver.

 

The Bad – Things I disliked

  • Licensing requirements. You had to license a property in Jameston to enter the challenge... why exactly? Jameston gained 30 settlement points by that alone, and will gain 19 more due to the prices (again, why can those not be claimed in a settlement of your own choice?) – that is the equivalent of a Large Town, basically for free. The other factions will have „their“ challenges in the future, but for the time being this feels quite unfair. It just sets a bad precedent. And no other Corrington settlement gained anything from this. See above for how this could have been handled much better.

  • Judging time. I do not know how the judging process is handled behind the scenes (because it is not communicated), but it took over eight weeks for the results to be posted. I understand that nobody does any of this professionally, but I do not understand what the hell took so long with this. Combined with the next point this only resulted in frustration.

  • Abysmal communication after the end of the challenge. There virtually was none. A short statement of „thanks“ roughly a week after the challenge ended, and then... nothing. When I asked for some kind of ETA six weeks (!) after the challenge ended... nothing. Somebody else asked again, and one week after my original question there came a vague answer – which turned out to be a good bit from the reality too. It took more than ten more days for the results to show up, and nobody said anything publically. Suggestion for the future: simply say what is going on, instead of playing hush-hush. A lack of communication shows a lack of respect, and I really doubt that this impression is, or should be, intentional.

  • Results. Sheesh, where to start. As a summary: I disagree with the majority of placements, independent of category. Before anybody jumps at me: I did enjoy all the entries in the challenge, but I think their relation to each other in terms of quality is not at all represented in these „results“. Since the judging process is intransparent, I can not say where (if at all) things went wrong on that side, or if the opinions of the judges just vastly differ from mine (if it is the latter, I question the judgement of at least some of them in terms of aesthetics and common sense). The following are my main objections, more or less in order of categories: why name a 1st, 2nd and 3rd place in Cat.A when there is only one winner to be announced, that simply makes no sense; you can not with a straight face tell me that the Cat.A entries of Elostirion or Kai NRG are better than the ones from Gideon or Mike S; similar for the 1st places in Cat.B, where it was seemingly enough to build a sloped mountain and place some prefab animals on it; how can Spud win the „geography“ subcategory, but my entry for the same subcategory wins 2nd place overall (yet he does not?), again this just makes no sense; I have no idea how anybody could come up with the ranking for Cat.C for 2nd and 3rd place, it is completely incomprehensible to me.

 

Summary

Overall I think this challenge had a good concept with solid execution until the deadline. The theme given allowed for a variety of different build ideas, and the results mirrored this. I had wished for more participation in general (and from other factions than Corrington in particular), but I also accept that the theme was not for everyone. The „communication from above“ after the end of the actual challenge definitely has to change. More transperency is needed. The results left quite a sour taste in my mouth. I really hope the next challenge improves considerably in these fields.

Congratulations to all winners.

 

Edited by Drunknok

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2 hours ago, Drunknok said:

you can not with a straight face tell me that the Cat.A entries of Elostirion or Kai NRG are better than the ones from Gideon or Mike S;

:pir-laugh:  I did totally expect Gideon to landslide that category.  Though I think there are at least a few people who could tell you with a straight face that mine is better than Mike S's - not that his wasn't really good, but ours are quite different and I dare say opinions would be split as to which is better.  And I guess Elostirion's open air basement was a just a big hit!

In past challenges there has been a judging score for story as well as for build, and that may possibly in some cases edge out a slightly better build.  I think it's usually something like 1-10 points for the build, 1-5 story.  Presentation and Following-challenge-guidelines are also often criteria.

2 hours ago, Drunknok said:

There virtually was none. A short statement of „thanks“ roughly a week after the challenge ended, and then... nothing. When I asked for some kind of ETA six weeks (!) after the challenge ended... nothing.

Dude you need to join GoH if you think this was a long judging time. :pir_tong2:

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Oh yeah! :laugh:

I didn't expect these results at all. Really happy right now - thanks!

Congratulations to all other winners, and thanks a lot to Ayrlego, Corrington and all judges for hosting this challenge. I enjoyed the search for the orchid a lot.

 

 

 

10 hours ago, Drunknok said:

Price distribution. The „default category“ (as in: you have to post an entry for it to participate at all) was obviously the most contested one, but it came with only one (huge) price. I see that there is some kind of reasoning behind this, but I do not agree with it. I would have preferred more prices at an overall lower level, for example „medium property of any kind – small property of any kind – 50DB“.

I do agree. Category A could have used a broader variety of prices for more participants. However everyone who entered here did benefit, winning or not, because it was an EGS property. But yes, large-medium-small or medium-small-som DBs might have been better. Might even have been creative, like trading benefits, MRCA benefits in Jameston, etc.

 

10 hours ago, Drunknok said:

Focus on the jungle. Once you „are in“, by posting an entry for the first category, you are forced to come up with a „jungle based build“. If you had, for whatever reasons, no „jungle inspiration“, or simply lacked the parts for some proper vegetation, you had nothing to build for two of the three categories. While I personally have no issue with that (I still have many ideas for future builds), both the overall attendance as well as the numbers for the different categories (see above) clearly show that I am in a minority with my opinion.

I wholeheartedly disagree! Who forced you to build jungle? Did the category? I don't think so. Inside a cave, inside the ruins, at a lake, under the surface of a lake, at a barren mountainslope, a snowy mountaintop, a dried out vale, a plain landscape within a volcano crater with hot steam destroying all plants, inside the temple ruins - so many options which don't need a single plant. Sure, jungle was the most easy and maybe most appropriate, but by far not the only option.
Regarding parts: That is a general problem. The more parts you have, the more options for great MOCs you have. The better your digicam and your photosetup, and also your editing-skills, the better your presentation. And so on. Every challenge will have this. And even if it was a pure jungle category, I think almost everyone here would have had some plant parts and could have participated.

 

10 hours ago, Drunknok said:

Starting in Jameston. Why did people have to build (and license) in Jameston to enter the challenge? You can prepare an expedition anywhere, and most likely it would be easier if you prepare it „at home“. I have more problems with this (see below), but to me it would make more sense – and possibly encourage more builds all in all – to let people start such an expedition wherever they want.

 

Licensing requirements. You had to license a property in Jameston to enter the challenge... why exactly? Jameston gained 30 settlement points by that alone, and will gain 19 more due to the prices (again, why can those not be claimed in a settlement of your own choice?) – that is the equivalent of a Large Town, basically for free. The other factions will have „their“ challenges in the future, but for the time being this feels quite unfair. It just sets a bad precedent. And no other Corrington settlement gained anything from this. See above for how this could have been handled much better.

I think it makes total sense to setup a base camp on Celestia. I agree that it might have been another settlement on Celestia, but the Corrish designers of the challenge decided to give Jameston some love. Why not? I don't think it's unfair, all three other factions will have the same chance in the future. Also I think it's some great lore. In the real world cities developed during gold rushes for example, Jameston will always be remembered as the town of the orchid rush. Also most of us build in our own towns anyway, and being forced to MOC somewhere else, something else, is what challenges are good for, right? Noone is forced to participate. I really don't get why this feels so unfair to you?

 

10 hours ago, Drunknok said:

No faction prices. This was a feature for all challenges from Era I, and I have yet to see an explanation why this was dropped. Offering something for the „best“ faction could have more likely than not led to a higher participation from non-Corries. It would also have encouraged working together as a faction, instead of "each on his/her own".

Agreed, that would have been great. I'd even say a price for the best "non-Corrish" faction.

 

10 hours ago, Drunknok said:

Promise of a developing map. The challenge was presented with the possibility of a „developing map“, but absolutely nothing of the likes happened. My advice would be to not promise something that you are not absolutely sure you can deliver.

I agree, this has always been a problem of BoBS: People in leadership are full of amazing ideas, and then lack the time to execute them. Which is fully understandable, however I agree with Drunknok: Just don't announce it in the first place.

However I'd call to everyone: YOU may take this as a chance to draw this map, based on the challenge results?

 

10 hours ago, Drunknok said:

Abysmal communication after the end of the challenge. There virtually was none. A short statement of „thanks“ roughly a week after the challenge ended, and then... nothing. When I asked for some kind of ETA six weeks (!) after the challenge ended... nothing. Somebody else asked again, and one week after my original question there came a vague answer – which turned out to be a good bit from the reality too. It took more than ten more days for the results to show up, and nobody said anything publically. Suggestion for the future: simply say what is going on, instead of playing hush-hush. A lack of communication shows a lack of respect, and I really doubt that this impression is, or should be, intentional.

I agree, communication could have been better here. But did it have any negative impacts on the game? I don't think so...

 

10 hours ago, Drunknok said:

Results. Sheesh, where to start. As a summary: I disagree with the majority of placements, independent of category. Before anybody jumps at me: I did enjoy all the entries in the challenge, but I think their relation to each other in terms of quality is not at all represented in these „results“. Since the judging process is intransparent, I can not say where (if at all) things went wrong on that side, or if the opinions of the judges just vastly differ from mine (if it is the latter, I question the judgement of at least some of them in terms of aesthetics and common sense). The following are my main objections, more or less in order of categories: why name a 1st, 2nd and 3rd place in Cat.A when there is only one winner to be announced, that simply makes no sense; you can not with a straight face tell me that the Cat.A entries of Elostirion or Kai NRG are better than the ones from Gideon or Mike S; similar for the 1st places in Cat.B, where it was seemingly enough to build a sloped mountain and place some prefab animals on it; how can Spud win the „geography“ subcategory, but my entry for the same subcategory wins 2nd place overall (yet he does not?), again this just makes no sense; I have no idea how anybody could come up with the ranking for Cat.C for 2nd and 3rd place, it is completely incomprehensible to me.

So basically you don't like my MOCs, I get it, and that's fine. But obviously the judges did like them. Everyone may have their personal opinion. I find it a bit weird, though, to take your personal opinion and question the whole judging - which has always been done by a group - based on it. So basically your opinion (as a player who is rather new to the game) is more valuable than the combined and agreed upon opinion of the group of people who have been here from the start and lead the game? I don't think so at all!

A) I think that Gideon's entry is the best MOC in general MOCing quality (challenged only by Kai's entry in this regard), and comes along with a fantastic presentation - definitely one of those outstanding MOCs that deserve to be frontpaged. However a tavern is not a unique idea (like Kai's or I guess mine too), which is absolutely fine, but which I guess might have been a deciding factor for judging, seeing the first two places? Also I think that Gideon's entry does not match the style of Jameston very well. It might be any city in the Brick Seas, but Jameston had a style suggested before the challenge, and I could not recognise too many elements of this style in Gideon's MOC. Which does not take anything away from its quality as a MOC, but if I had been a judge this would have been the very reason I would not hvae voted for it as a winner. Also I'd say with a straight face to you that while Mike's entry is amazing, I feel that Kai's entry is definitely better in regards to MOC quality, idea, presentation and storyline (not so much in matching Jameston style). I personally would have voted for Bregir's entry, btw., I personally think this was by far the best entry. Also Kai had great characters and amazing descriptions, and I remember I got a lot of positive comments for my characters, so I guess they were well done - might have been a judging factor as well. We just do not know, so please do not say that one entry is "better" than another - because in some regard it is, and in some it is not.

B) Your comment "enough to build a sloped mountain and place some prefab animals" makes it sound as if it was no effort to build my MOC. Let me tell you: it was. An earlier version lacked a lot of detail and quality, and with some feedback from others I tore down most of the mountain again, just to add some round 1x1 plates and some vines to it (which was then completed about 19 days later, so I did take my time). I placed a lot of emphasis on details, for example I researched treelines to decide which kind of vegetation to use, and many, many hours went into this MOC. And prefab animals almost always - unless from some masterbuilders - look better than brickbuilt ones (which are usually really cool, though). I have failed horribly in the past at brickbuilding animals. So why is my choice for prefabs bad? But anyway: Just don't presume this was not a lot of effort, because it was!

Overall I think category B was the lowest of the three regarding general MOC quality (I thought so even during the challenge). There were no true master-entries like Gideon's category C. There was a lot of great scientific exploration stories, presenting plants, animals and other details (and that's what the detail categories are here for, and I would definitely have declined all prices in those!) - but really not so many great overall MOCs in regards to MOC quality, presentation, etc. (i.e. frontpage material) - in my opinion. I personally think that my own category B entry was one of my personal worst MOCs during the last year (not that I didn't try, I just couldn't get it to work out 100% the way I wanted to), and definitely did not expect to win here, but obviously the judges think it was the best entry for their criteria - and I think this decision can be justified, comparing it to the other entries. The same can be said for Bregir's entry.

Also as you can see by your entries placing second and third - every entry was judged individually, and placed individually, so in regards to winning overall it did not matter whether you had submitted 1 or 5 entries. Which single entry do you think should have won, and why?

C) Hard to dispute Gideon's outstanding entry, at least we seem to agree here. Regarding 2nd and 3rd: Order of those three can definitely be debated, to me they are all quite on the same level. I have looked through all other cat C. entries and I couldn't find any entry that is, in my opinion, better than any of the three from Mike, Bregir and myself. So what exactly makes it so incomprehensible for you?

Also I don't think all decisions have to be justified. Judges don't explain why they chose Miss Corrington over Miss Oleon in the vote for Miss Brick Seas (unless it's a TV show which gains its only interest from the conversations of the celebrity judges, but that's not the case here...). Just take it as it is, enjoy your wins and learn from your losses. And don't forget: It's all about having fun with a great hobby, right?

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43 minutes ago, Elostirion said:

So basically you don't like my MOCs, I get it, and that's fine.

That is not at all what I said, you are wrong. To quote myself:

12 hours ago, Drunknok said:

Before anybody jumps at me: I did enjoy all the entries in the challenge, but I think their relation to each other in terms of quality is not at all represented in these „results“.

 

To spell it out: Elostirion, I like all your challenge entries. But in my opinion every single one of them had better competition in its respective category, and in each case I think their place in the ranking is not justified given the alternatives. In my opinion - I can not stress this enough. Given the rest of your reply I see that we disagree a lot on this matter. Fair enough.

Judging is done though, congratulations to your wins.

Edited by Drunknok

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On 31.3.2018 at 10:43 PM, Ayrlego said:

As the winner, Elostirion is awarded a free large property licence of any type in the settlement of Jameston (micro scale build only required).

 

Juan Alfonso Fontonajo - one large educational license in the settlement of Jameston

All licenses only require a microbuild to activate.

 

 

One free medium plantation license (micro build required to activate) in the settlement of Jameston.

Rule question: Is there a difference between "micro scale build", "microbuild" and "micro build"? Or in other words: Does a micro have to be micro scale? Or can it be just a small part of a whole building, e.g. one hotel room in normal scale of a large hotel with 20 rooms, or one apple tree to present a whole large plantation of apples?

In category C (free medium plantation) I do have just sth. like a cutout from a larger plantation scene, but in normal scale, and am not sure whether that counts. If you need an image just let me know.

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@Drunknok (and anyone else who's interested), you asked for better transparency regarding challenge judging. I can't speak for this challenge (I've been out of leadership since Era 1 Ch 5 was still running, or approx. a year), but in Era 1 it usually went like this:

After each challenge deadline passed and all entries were posted and listed, leadership would briefly discuss the who/what/when of judging. Not everyone in leadership signs in daily, so this might take a few days or a week.

Judges were leadership members who volunteered for the role. Usually there were 2 judges per faction, or 8 total; however at one point only 1 per faction was employed (Ch 4, perhaps? I'm pretty sure I was out before judging for Ch 5. This is all from memory.)

The judges only scored the entries for the other 3 factions, and did not judge entries from their own faction. (I never volunteered since I am stuck with the mobile platform, and the judging process looked like it would be a nightmare from a phone.) With 2 judges per faction, each entry would be scored 6 times, from the 6 judges outside each entry's faction. With 1 judge per faction, each entry would be scored 3 times.

Each judge numerically scored each entry in several categories (build quality, presentation, story, challenge-specific requirements, etc), with higher scores being better; and all the categories were added up to produce the total score for each entry. Usually the build was worth at least half of the total score, with presentation, story, and other specific requirements making up the rest. As you might imagine, some time was required to go through this whole scoring process, particularly when there were lots of entries.

When this was complete, all of the judge's scores for each entry were averaged. The average score was then the official score for each entry, and determined placements in the challenges. Faction prizes were not simply based on the average of all scores with each faction; rather, they were usually based on the average score of the top-scoring 3-4 entries per faction.

That should be an accurate summary for at least the first 4 challenges. I don't know how this one was scored, but based on available comments I suspect it was something very similar.

Yes, it could be done quicker, for while it takes some time to complete the scoring, it really shouldn't take months if it's quickly addressed. Perhaps a judging deadline would help, or having the judges volunteer before each challenge ends instead of after. As I recall, some judges would be finished before others signed up and even started, which tended to drag things out a bit.

I don't particularly care to debate the placements and winners - there is potential for that to be an endless argument - but it's important to remember that none of the challenges was ever scored strictly based on the build. Presentation, story, and specific requirements always counted too. The first post in this topic plainly describes the specific judging criteria that is unique to each category (but doesn't really mention how much weight these requirements carry). For example, Cat. C speaks of integration of the orchid in the jungle ruins and tranquility of the scene, or words to that effect.

If ultimate simplicity in judging was the goal, a public voting poll might be useful, but there has always been the concern that non-BoBSers would probably vote strictly for their favorite builds while ignoring all the other criteria. Of course, multiple poll components (one poll list for each piece of the judging criteria: build, story, etc) could solve this, but it might prove a chore when there are lots of entries, and people would have to take it seriously or the results would be flawed.

If total transparency was the goal, BoBS members only could vote via posting a comment in a dedicated voting thread, the way many challenges on EB are judged, (perhaps listing top 3 best builds, stories, presentation, etc and then adding scores from each category to reach a total) but again, it would require people be serious about all aspects.

I'm not suggesting either idea be implemented. The judging form from Era 1 seemed to work well. There was never any hush-hush element that I was aware of. Regarding communication, I'm sure leadership wants to give you the best info, but when judges are still working on scoring builds it's a guessing game as to exactly when it will be finished.

I hope this answers some of your questions / addresses some of your concerns.

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8 hours ago, Elostirion said:

In category C (free medium plantation) I do have just sth. like a cutout from a larger plantation scene, but in normal scale, and am not sure whether that counts. If you need an image just let me know.

I have just gone ahead and done it the way I wanted to; please let me know if that is fine. Thanks.

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2 hours ago, Elostirion said:

I have just gone ahead and done it the way I wanted to; please let me know if that is fine. Thanks.

I see no issue - it’s been done before so there is a precedent. 

I think the intent behind the micro builds has always been that something is built - it just doesn’t have to meet the footprint 

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10 minutes ago, Ayrlego said:

I see no issue - it’s been done before so there is a precedent. 

I think the intent behind the micro builds has always been that something is built - it just doesn’t have to meet the footprint 

Agreed.

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10 minutes ago, Ayrlego said:

I see no issue - it’s been done before so there is a precedent.

Can you give a link for this please?

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5 hours ago, Drunknok said:

Can you give a link for this please?

I’m on my phone so no, you’ll have to find them yourself. The examples I’m thinking of were from the first challenge that offered micro prizes... challenge 4 maybe? The builds were done by me and placed in Arlinsport and Mooreton Bay (large factories). I think I remember a similar Oleon example from a later challenge as well but I can’t remember the details.

 

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8 hours ago, Ayrlego said:

I’m on my phone so no, you’ll have to find them yourself. The examples I’m thinking of were from the first challenge that offered micro prizes... challenge 4 maybe? The builds were done by me and placed in Arlinsport and Mooreton Bay (large factories). I think I remember a similar Oleon example from a later challenge as well but I can’t remember the details.

I found your examples (Challenge IV indeed). The other one... no idea.

 

A simple solution to avoid confusion in the future would be to state "required to activate: physical build of at least 8x8 in size or microbuild" for prize licenses.

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Congratulations to a great challenge and to all the winners :classic:

Is there any size recommendations for the plantation micro-build...?

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1 hour ago, Gideon said:

Is there any size recommendations for the plantation micro-build...?

I think "sufficient effort" is the only requirement. So if you can build something cool on 6x6 that is fine. But you may want to work on a larger scale.

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1 hour ago, Drunknok said:

When will the "monetary prizes" be transferred? Another two months?

Being snarky is certain not to accelerate it, that's for sure.

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16 minutes ago, Bregir said:

Being snarky is certain not to accelerate it, that's for sure.

Well, it can hardly get much slower, so why not try something different...

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