ElectroDiva

2018 Lego Trains

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1 hour ago, Goldenmasamune said:

I gotta say that controller is ugly. I hope the other PF2.0 motors are shown soon! I need form factor! 

Lego Power Functions 2.0 IS Lego Boost and Lego WeDo 2.0. All fully compatible:

LEGO-Boost-Smart-brick-Image.jpg

ori-lego-education-wedo-2-0-core-set-102

Edited by Mr Hobbles

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How do the boost and wedo motors hold up to the PF motors? Anything as good as the XL motor or L motor? 

I also just realized that it's impossible to have two motors on the same channel now, unless a splitter is released. 

Edited by Goldenmasamune

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5 hours ago, Eaglefan344 said:

I wonder how you switch channels. I don't see any buttons to change it, unless its the center green one.

Every bluebooth chip has its own unique MAC address.  There is no need to switch channels.  They can all use the same radio frequency but only responds to packets addressed to its MAC. 

You probably use the green button or some button combination to pair the controler and battery box together like with wireless computer keyboards and mice that have a USB dongle. 

4 hours ago, creator_hun said:

6 wires in the cable...

2 for sensors? 

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56 minutes ago, dr_spock said:

Every bluebooth chip has its own unique MAC address.  There is no need to switch channels.  They can all use the same radio frequency but only responds to packets addressed to its MAC. 

You probably use the green button or some button combination to pair the controler and battery box together like with wireless computer keyboards and mice that have a USB dongle. 

2 for sensors? 

So you would have to have a separate controller for each train? 

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3 minutes ago, Eaglefan344 said:

So you would have to have a separate controller for each train? 

Yes; or just use your phone. 

 

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3 hours ago, Mr Hobbles said:

Lego Power Functions 2.0 IS Lego Boost and Lego WeDo 2.0. All fully compatible:

LEGO-Boost-Smart-brick-Image.jpg

ori-lego-education-wedo-2-0-core-set-102

WeDo 2.0 and Boost are actually not compatible. The connectors look the same, and you can plug a WeDo 2.0 motor to a Boost hub, it just will not be recognised.

The 60194: Arctic Scout Truck, Ninjago 70652: Stormbringer; and an expert-level roller coaster are all marketed as boost compatible. The Boost software has been updated with these models.
Hopefully the new power functions are compatible with Boost.

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3 hours ago, cerebrus said:

WeDo 2.0 and Boost are actually not compatible. The connectors look the same, and you can plug a WeDo 2.0 motor to a Boost hub, it just will not be recognised.

The 60194: Arctic Scout Truck, Ninjago 70652: Stormbringer; and an expert-level roller coaster are all marketed as boost compatible. The Boost software has been updated with these models.
Hopefully the new power functions are compatible with Boost.

Actually, that's not quite true. The sensors and motors are recognised by the Move Hub or Smart Hub, and if you're capable, can be programmed by writing code. Libraries like node-movehub allow you to program with WeDo sensors attached to the Boost Move Hub.

For example (https://github.com/hobbyquaker/node-movehub/blob/master/README.md), supported sensors color (Boost), distance (WeDo), tilt (WeDo), rotation (WeDo and Boost).

However, if you're using the official Boost app, you're right that they're not displayed as options. I hope they add full support to the app at some stage.

Edited by Mr Hobbles

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Any idea what's the height of the new hub compared to old battyery box? It shouldn't be taller, because the plugs are on the side, but I just wonder how it compares exactly.

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5 hours ago, Eaglefan344 said:

So you would have to have a separate controller for each train? 

 

5 hours ago, Goldenmasamune said:

Yes; or just use your phone. 

 

No way. There's a reason there's two channels on each controller and it not so it can only control a single train.

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Maybe the only reason is to control what's plugged to the A and B sockets...it indeed looks bit unfortunate.

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3 hours ago, sed6 said:

 

 

No way. There's a reason there's two channels on each controller and it not so it can only control a single train.

There aren't two receiver channels on the new controller they removed the dedicated selection switch, there are two channels for the A + B sockets on the receiver. The controller could control multiple receivers with a button combo to switch but LEGO seem keen to force people onto the apps. The LEGO boost app is loaded up with tracking code to report back on play sessions, a little nasty considering its aimed at children and probably illegal now under the GDPR.

Edited by curiosus

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28 minutes ago, curiosus said:

There aren't two receiver channels on the new controller they removed the dedicated selection switch, there are two channels for the A + B sockets on the receiver. The controller could control multiple receivers with a button combo to switch but LEGO seem keen to force people onto the apps. The LEGO boost app is loaded up with tracking code to report back on play sessions, a little nasty considering its aimed at children and probably illegal now under the GDPR.

Well I don't agree, you could simply even write your own app that uses bluetooth for it. GDPR is only relevant if personal data is stored in apps / websites. @ Mr Hobbles that is a great find, and proves that it is really possible to implement things for it yourself (I understand that it requires a fair amount of technical skills but it is possible). 

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30 minutes ago, JopieK said:

Well I don't agree, you could simply even write your own app that uses bluetooth for it. GDPR is only relevant if personal data is stored in apps / websites. @ Mr Hobbles that is a great find, and proves that it is really possible to implement things for it yourself (I understand that it requires a fair amount of technical skills but it is possible). 

Playtime stats is personal data anything relating to an individual is, its also non-essential for the app, and capturing the data of children, and was according to the privacy policy made available to third parties. The implementation I saw was violating multiple aspects of the GDPR but I haven't checked it since the rules came into force, they may have removed it to become compliant.

Yes you can make your own app, I'm part way through making one myself but we were talking about the controllers? The average user will use the LEGO app regardless of what it does and if there are better user-made ones.

Edited by curiosus

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I agree that an app should not record personally linked data unless needed and users give permission for it. Apple will even reject apps if they notice. I guess we will need to see how it really works. Some people including Jim (our Tech moderator) already have the set and are playing around with it. Using multiple controllers would also likely solve the issue, we will need to see. The four channel option was also not very great, my nephews now and then come here to play with the trains and sometimes accidentally switch over and inadvertently control the train of the other, so it might be that that was why LEGO chose a different solution from the original controller. Probably it has an initial 'pairing time' of some seconds if the receiver and controller get powered up.

Update:

See the BoostBLEKit for the basic information on the software part of the protocol.
https://github.com/bricklife/BoostBLEKit

 

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9 hours ago, Mr Hobbles said:

Actually, that's not quite true. The sensors and motors are recognised by the Move Hub or Smart Hub, and if you're capable, can be programmed by writing code. Libraries like node-movehub allow you to program with WeDo sensors attached to the Boost Move Hub.

For example (https://github.com/hobbyquaker/node-movehub/blob/master/README.md), supported sensors color (Boost), distance (WeDo), tilt (WeDo), rotation (WeDo and Boost).

However, if you're using the official Boost app, you're right that they're not displayed as options. I hope they add full support to the app at some stage.

 

Thank you for the information! :sweet: I have used both Boost & WeDo in the class room, I will have to give this a go.

I too do hope they add full support, will make things more interesting.

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54 minutes ago, cerebrus said:

 

Thank you for the information! :sweet: I have used both Boost & WeDo in the class room, I will have to give this a go.

I too do hope they add full support, will make things more interesting.

If you're doing classroom work, you might be interested in this Python project. :) https://github.com/JorgePe/pyb00st

Yeah, it'd be nice to have a single iOS/Android app that supports the full suite of PF2 motors and sensors rather than splitting up the apps by product. I'm quite excited though as for train layouts, full automation will be possible by writing code that runs on a laptop, that talks to all the Hubs via Bluetooth, and running everything remotely. It's going to be an incredibly powerful system!

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2 hours ago, Mr Hobbles said:

 I'm quite excited though as for train layouts, full automation will be possible by writing code that runs on a laptop, that talks to all the Hubs via Bluetooth, and running everything remotely. It's going to be an incredibly powerful system!

This!! Can’t wait ? 

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48 minutes ago, dylanfarrow said:

This!! Can’t wait ? 

I had more thoughts too! Imagine putting color sensors on the bottom of the trains. You can have coloured tiles stuck to the tracks to mark positions. The trains can then relay their positions to the laptop based on what the last color they encountered was, and the laptop would then issue commands to the train. Block level control, and full bidirectional communication with the trains from a central command laptop, all over Bluetooth!

The train Hub (Whatever it's called) has two ports, so perfect for one train motor and one color sensor.

You could even extend this system to control switches and signals too.

Edited by Mr Hobbles

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14 hours ago, curiosus said:

There aren't two receiver channels on the new controller they removed the dedicated selection switch, there are two channels for the A + B sockets on the receiver.

I think we're trying to say the same thing? The controller has two channels, A & B, just like the current ones have a red and blue channel. The receivers also have two channels, A & B. Therefore you can control two trains from a single transmitter. The new controller and receiver seem to be lacking the 1-4 slide switches which allowed for 8 seperate trains to be controller by one controller. 

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5 hours ago, sed6 said:

Therefore you can control two trains from a single transmitter.

But you don't select channel, instead you "pair" the controller to hub. And I think you can't pair it with two hubs...

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18 minutes ago, Bartosz said:

But you don't select channel, instead you "pair" the controller to hub. And I think you can't pair it with two hubs...

I bet you can. It would be silly if we couldn't. Every BT device I own I can pair with multiple things. There's no reason to think this would be any different. It would be extremely shortsighted of TLG to leave out a function as simple as pairing with multiple devices. 

Edit to add: think about it from a practicality stand point. I want to build an XYZ that requires a battery/receiver. I have a tranmitter at home already. I now have to buy another transmitter instead of using the free channel on the one I have? No way...

Edited by sed6

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