2018 Lego Trains

[retrotecchie]

Plenty of space to do so. I'm just finishing building the Cargo Train now (typing this in a quick coffee break) and I'm going to rob the NiMh batteries from my old 7939 Cargo Train. As I have the 7939 loco partly disassembled anyway, I'll transplant the PF gear and see how it works.

I took the innards from my 60051 Passenger train and put it in the new 60197 so that is now running under IR power functions quite happily. The fact that the old PF has compatible LED lights whereas the new PU ones haven't been released yet means my Passenger train now has headlights.

I am assuming the new PU lights (when they are released - a set number has been identified) will have a similar form factor, with just a different plug to suit the new Smart Hub. Perhaps the ID pins may 'identify' lights as a simple binary on-off device so we can simply switch the lights on and off rather than have to dim them up and down as we currently do with Power Functions?

Now I have a 'spare' set of PU motor, remote and Smarthub for the moment, I want to play with the ID pins and see if the hub sees the functionality of a train motor differently if it reports a different ID.

 

 

[sed6]

18 hours ago, sed6 said:

After the poor review above I looked at S@H for other reviews. I found a very interesting comment from Lego...

"RESPONSE FROM LEGO:Emily, Customer ServiceJuly 16, 2018

Thanks for your review. We're sorry to hear that you were disappointed with your new LEGO® train. I'll pass your feedback along to our designers.

If you'd like to add another engine to your train, you can get in touch with us at LEGO.com/Service for advice..."

 

This response sounds like we can contact Lego and perhaps order a second separate engine to complete the look of the passenger train. Thoughts?

 

Edit to add: I've just emailed Lego to inquire and will let everyone know what their response is. 

You guys aren't going to believe this!

Earlier today I emailed Lego and asked...

>>>Hello-Is it possible to order a second (perhaps unpowered) engine for the new 60197 Passenger Train to complete the look? A response from a LEGO rep to a recent review of the set suggests to contact you to inquire. Thanks very much. -Scott<<<

This was the reply I just got...

>>>Dear Scott,

What a gorgeous train, huh? We can definitely get you set up with a second engine for the new Passenger Train 60197.

Unfortunately we don't have unpowered motors, so we will have to send you another powered motor to complete the train's look. I've already got an order set up to be sent out to you: xxxxxxxx (edited)

The motor is currently on backorder until 8/31 but when it's back in stock it'll ship right out to you! You'll then see it in 7-10 business days.

If there's anything else we can help you with, Scott, please don't hesitate to email us back or give us a call at the number provided above. I hope you have a fantastic weekend!

We want to make sure we're doing a good job for you, so you’ll always find the link to a four-question survey in our emails. Please tell us how we did today.

Please let us know if you need anything else.

Kind regards,

Siobhan

LEGO® Service<<<

How awesome is TLG? I've never even heard of that level of customer service! I hope each of you can get one too!

[Carefree_Dude]

Damn I love lego. How much are they charging you for it?

Edited August 4, 2018 by Goldenmasamune

[antp]

I wonder if by "engine" they understood the whole locomotive/car or just the motor itself

[Bricked1980]

This is awesome. You cannot fault lego for customer service. A few weeks ago I ordered the exclusive microscale brand store set. When it arrived the box was dented and crushed in the corner. They sent me out a brand new replacement and also allowed me to keep the damaged set free of charge.

@sed6 please let us know how much they charged you for the extra engine. The fact this set only comes with one loco is one of the things that puts me off getting it so if it's possible to buy a second engine at a reasonable price then I will definitely be interested in buying the set.

[sed6]

Zero dollars. I pasted their entire email above. That's why I said unbelievable. No confusion on what's coming either, "We can definitely get you set up with a second engine...to complete the trains look."

Edit to add: Ironically I posted several pages back, or perhaps in a similar thread, about the battery drain caused by dragging around an unpowered motor. Seems this may now be a concern since TLG is also including a motor. Can I ask some of you to design an unpowered truck and post up a pic or two so I can order some pieces? I bet there will be many of us that will want to pull that motor and install something unpowered in its place. 

Edited August 4, 2018 by sed6

[ColletArrow]

@sed6 Now that's good service. I wonder if they'll keep doing this if too many people ask them, or whether they had predicted people asking for this and prepared. I suppose they only need to send out bags 2 and 3, and some of the loose parts, for you to end up with a complete loco. Keep us updated as to what, when and how you get it!

As for building an unpowered motor look-a-like bogie, just have a look at any LEGO set with one in; e.g. 7939's instructions builds one (booklet 1, page 22).

[Bricked1980]

I wonder what their response would be if the main set had been bought from amazon or somewhere other than s@h. Surely they wouldn't still supply one for free them 

[Bartosz]

51 minutes ago, Bricked1980 said:

I wonder what their response would be if the main set had been bought from amazon or somewhere other than s@h. Surely they wouldn't still supply one for free them 

Been wondering that too. After all, their prices are quite high compared toothed retailers, so they difference surely is enough for such service.

[sed6]

3 hours ago, Bricked1980 said:

I wonder what their response would be if the main set had been bought from amazon or somewhere other than s@h. Surely they wouldn't still supply one for free them 

 

3 hours ago, Bartosz said:

Been wondering that too. After all, their prices are quite high compared toothed retailers, so they difference surely is enough for such service.

They don't care. They didn't ask me, I didn't tell them (re-read my email to them). Just between us, I haven't even bought the set yet. Like others I was on the fence, but my mind has been made up after this fantastic experience!

 

4 hours ago, ColletArrow said:

@sed6 Now that's good service. I wonder if they'll keep doing this if too many people ask them, or whether they had predicted people asking for this and prepared. I suppose they only need to send out bags 2 and 3, and some of the loose parts, for you to end up with a complete loco. Keep us updated as to what, when and how you get it!

As for building an unpowered motor look-a-like bogie, just have a look at any LEGO set with one in; e.g. 7939's instructions builds one (booklet 1, page 22).

I wondered this too. I even hesitated before sharing this news with the world. TLG must have been prepared for this given their quick and friendly response. 

Good tip on the unpowered truck!

[dr_spock]

3 hours ago, Bricked1980 said:

I wonder what their response would be if the main set had been bought from amazon or somewhere other than s@h. Surely they wouldn't still supply one for free them 

They replaced my broken Mindstorm NXT after a capacitor exploded inside years later. I had to send the broken one back though.  Basically it costed me the cost of shipping.  It wasn't bought directly from LEGO.  Maybe they do factor in their cost of customer service/support into their wholesale pricing structure too. 

 

[aurly]

On 8/3/2018 at 2:59 AM, retrotecchie said:

I just got the new Cargo and Passenger trains.

Very disappointing. Both are 50% more expensive than the 7938 and 7939 sets they essentially 'update', but I fail to see where the extra money went. The Bluetooth is utterly dire and I have just ordered a pair of PF kits to retrofit these back to a 'proper' control system that is compatible with all my existing trains.

The controller is way too small for my sausage fingers, and the buttons are all way too small and fiddly. The rotary wheels on PF were perfect for controlling trains easily with one hand....this new PU controller is awful.

And don't say 'use the app'...I don't own a tablet or smart phone and don't intend to. What I do have is a Windows 10 laptop with Bluetooth 4 (LE) and I did email TLG to enquire about a Windows version of the software, but they say 'no', and no plans to bring one out. A shame really as the real-estate on a 19" (or bigger) screen would give you some amazing possibilities. 

Fairly 'standard' trains, somewhat overpriced compared to earlier releases, and I fail to see any benefit at all with the Bluetooth versus tried-and-tested PF.

The battery life is about half an hour with the same NiMh batteries that power the PF trains for a whole afternoon. I can't see the PU train motor needing any more power than the PF version....must be the Bluetooth that sucks them dry. I would need a second mortgage to run these on alkalines.

LEGO...what were you thinking?!

It may be worth it to connect them to the app at least once, mine seemed to be updating the firmware when I did that. The passenger train’s been running for over an hour now on 800mAh rechargables so maybe it fixed a battery problem. I did not test before the update however.

[retrotecchie]

1 hour ago, aurly said:

It may be worth it to connect them to the app at least once, mine seemed to be updating the firmware when I did that. The passenger train’s been running for over an hour now on 800mAh rechargables so maybe it fixed a battery problem. I did not test before the update however.

Connect them to the 'app' with what? I contacted LEGO and they say there are no plans to bring out a version of the app for Windows PC :(-

I just took a set of batteries out of my 7939 Cargo Train that have been sat untouched and uncharged for three months (I moved home recently). When I powered up the 7939, the green light came on the IR receiver and the train ran right away. After a couple of minutes I took the batteries out and put them in a Smart Hub for my new Cargo Train. The LED flashed red once when I tried the hub (low battery) and then gave up completely. I then took the batteries out of the hub and put them back in the 7939 and off it went....for another 20 minutes until the motor began to slow down. PF is still responding to commands, but there just isn't enough power left for the motor.

Having hacked the wires on an IR receiver and used it to control an old 4.5v motor in my 171 train set, with three 1.2v NiMh C cells in the battery box, I know the Power Functions gear works down to as little as 3v without a problem. I think the problem with this new Bluetooth gubbins is that the 'battery low' threshold is considerably higher than the old PF stuff. 

Edited August 4, 2018 by retrotecchie

[aurly]

25 minutes ago, retrotecchie said:

Connect them to the 'app' with what? I contacted LEGO and they say there are no plans to bring out a version of the app for Windows PC :(-

I just took a set of batteries out of my 7939 Cargo Train that have been sat untouched and uncharged for three months (I moved home recently). When I powered up the 7939, the green light came on the IR receiver and the train ran right away. After a couple of minutes I took the batteries out and put them in a Smart Hub for my new Cargo Train. The LED flashed red once when I tried the hub (low battery) and then gave up completely. I then took the batteries out of the hub and put them back in the 7939 and off it went....for another 20 minutes until the motor began to slow down. PF is still responding to commands, but there just isn't enough power left for the motor.

Having hacked the wires on an IR receiver and used it to control an old 4.5v motor in my 171 train set, with three 1.2v NiMh C cells in the battery box, I know the Power Functions gear works down to as little as 3v without a problem. I think the problem with this new Bluetooth gubbins is that the 'battery low' threshold is considerably higher than the old PF stuff. 

You just have to connect the hub to the app once for the update. Do you not have friends or relatives with a smartphone or tablet that can help?

Anyway, 2.5 hours so far and it’s still running, no flashing low battery LEDs yet. It must not like the batteries you’re using.

It did take a short break - apparently the remote automatically switches off after 2 hours, causing the train to stop.

Edited August 4, 2018 by aurly

[retrotecchie]

The app doesn't work on the wife's i-Phone (we tried) and I don't know anyone else round here with a smartphone. A bit pointless when we don't even get 2G and our wired broadband is 100kb/s at best. Sucks to live in a rural community, eh?!

 

[aurly]

Almost 3 and a half hours of speed 6, and it’s finally slowing down a bit with a low battery signal. If it’s worse than the PF motors, it’s not by much.

[Mr Hobbles]

19 minutes ago, aurly said:

Almost 3 and a half hours of speed 6, and it’s finally slowing down a bit with a low battery signal. If it’s worse than the PF motors, it’s not by much.

Thanks for that, I did wonder! I wondered if the new PF system would just run motors slower with low battery, or if it would be a hard cutoff type situation.

[Carefree_Dude]

20 hours ago, sed6 said:

Zero dollars. I pasted their entire email above. That's why I said unbelievable. No confusion on what's coming either, "We can definitely get you set up with a second engine...to complete the trains look."

Edit to add: Ironically I posted several pages back, or perhaps in a similar thread, about the battery drain caused by dragging around an unpowered motor. Seems this may now be a concern since TLG is also including a motor. Can I ask some of you to design an unpowered truck and post up a pic or two so I can order some pieces? I bet there will be many of us that will want to pull that motor and install something unpowered in its place. 

I went ahead and emailed them asking lf I can purchase a second engine 

[retrotecchie]

This Bluetooth stuff is really giving me gyp now!

So I now have the Passenger Train and the Cargo Train. Lovely trains, in themselves. It's the Powered Up! that badly lets them down.

Power on the Cargo Train and a controller. Flashy-flashy, pairy-pairy. Both light up green and we are good to go. Power both off. Power both on again...paired green. Good to go.

Power off.

Power up controller and Passenger Train. Flashy-flashy, pairy-pairy. Both light up green and we are good to go.

Individually that is. One train is on Port A and the other is on Port B, so logic dictates that I can use one controller for two trains, right?

Wrong. I simply cannot get a second hub to be recognised on the same controller.

No matter what combination I try and press the buttons in, one or other hub will pair with a controller, but two hubs will not pair with the same controller at the same time.

This kind of makes a 2-way (A & B) remote a bit pointless!

I tried pairing a train and a controller, and then changing the channel to Yellow. When I power down and power up again, sure enough they pair instantly and remember the hub is on Yellow.

If I power down, then power up the controller with the other train (Hub still set to Green), up they both come and pair happily as Green.

I just cannot get two hubs to pair with one transmitter!

Anyway....unless someone has a fix for this issue, the whole lot of Bluetooth stuff is coming out and being replaced with PF (which fits perfectly) and going on Ebay.

This new technology is fine when it 'works'. If it doesn't work out of the box without needing firmware updates or connecting to a smartphone in order to make it work then I'm sorry, but it's not an 'upgrade'. Power Functions works first time every time and doesn't need any fiddling about. It just 'works'.

Incidentally, I get around an hour and a bit with the Cargo Train on identical batteries to the Passenger Train. My Passenger train will still not make 40 minutes of continuous running on speed 3. I would have thought the heavier train would load the motor more and last for a shorter duration. I shall swap the motors over and test again just in case I have an iffy motor (this was certainly not uncommon with 4.5v, 12v and PF in the past).

 

 

 

[AE bricks]

On 8/4/2018 at 10:05 AM, sed6 said:

Zero dollars. I pasted their entire email above. That's why I said unbelievable. No confusion on what's coming either, "We can definitely get you set up with a second engine...to complete the trains look."

I've just made a similar request in dutch in the LEGO service desk. Looking forward to see if they still offer this same solution for everyone who asks. Have bought the set a few days ago in a webshop though, priced at 110 euro seemed fair. 

Edited August 5, 2018 by AE bricks

[sed6]

1 hour ago, retrotecchie said:

I just cannot get two hubs to pair with one transmitter!

There is a YouTube video showing how this is done. I don't have a link to it though. Have you watched it? If all else fails could you call TLG and ask them for help. Or if you were to email them, perhaps they will send some directions to you that you could publish for others here to read also. 

[retrotecchie]

I have emailed TLG and am waiting for a response. I did look at Madaboutlego's channel at his video on the Passenger Train, and his Powered Up doesn't work anything like mine does. It seems he can power up a train remotely by turning on the controller. Mine won't do that. I even tried LEGO's only tip which is to push and hold the buttons for five seconds or more to get a purple flashing light which indicates that pairing has been 'forgotten' and puts the system back into 'reset mode'. I still cannot get two hubs to connect to one controller.

Incidentally, NiMh batteries last about 48 hours in a controller. Bearing in mind for 16 hours of those 48 the controllers were powered off (I was asleep). I have PF remotes from 2010 that still have their original alkaline batteries (Duracell Industrial) and still work fine.

 

[retrotecchie]

Yet more testing and yet more issues.

I have just managed to rob another set of batteries and now have both remotes and both trains/Smart Hubs running. Again, individually...I cannot pair two trains to one controller or one train with two controllers.

If I power up one set (Cargo on Green), the remote controls the train. Pushing the button on the Smart Hub allows me to change channel. 

If I now power up the second pair (Passenger on Yellow), then the train is controlled by the second remote. A quick press on the green button on the remote is supposed to select between available/active channels. It doesn't.

If I use the button on the Smart Hub to change the channel, I can end up with both remotes and both hubs on the same channel, e.g. green. But guess what....the Green channel on one remote won't control the other train, and vice versa. Even on supposedly the same channel, the pairing seems to be one to one between a specific hub and specific controller. By powering everything off, I can get the controllers to swap, but I still can't get them to control more than one train.

I was under the assumption that this system had 10 channels. A and B for each of Red, Blue, Green, Yellow and Purple. A transmitter designated as Green would control a Hub designated as green, Red to Red and so on. Nope....the pairing seems to be one controller, one Hub, and the colours have to match each other, but two sets of hub/controller can happily work independently on the same channel, but not control multiple hubs or have more than one controller per hub.

So the limitations seem to be as follows.

One train per controller. No ability to control two trains from a single controller. 

One controller per train. 

Unless you have two motors connected to the same hub, having two sets of buttons on the remote seems pointless. You cannot use two motors (A and B) in the same train running from the same hub because of the cable length and the inability to reverse the polarity of the motor (like you could with PF).

Even with hubs and controllers on the same 'channel', they don't talk to each other.

Battery life. Regardless of what others seem to have experienced, my battery life is pretty lousy compared to PF. 'Dead' batteries from PU will run PF trains for another afternoon with no worries at all. My 7939 is still running after three hours with batteries that won't even power up the Smart Hub, let alone run a train motor.

No lights available (even though they have been mooted by TLG and have an allocated set number). 

The app is limited to smartphone or tablet users. Even then, the smartphone or tablet has to be a certain OS and can't be more than a year or two old....it doesn't work on an i-Phone or anything other than recent Android or a 2017 vintage i-Pad. No support whatsoever and none planned for PC users.

I have rarely been upset by anything TLG have ever done, but this has really got to me. What should (theoretically) be a nice idea has been poorly implemented, is seemingly unsupported and appears to be very retrograde in that everything should just 'work' out of the box, and this really doesn't appear to!

The trains themselves are as good as any LEGO have released. They are clearly intended as a 'like for like' replacement/update of the 7938 and 7939...the styling is very similar and the build quality and included accessories are very much in keeping with the 'originals'. I have to give TLG 10 out of 10 for the general, er, 'traininess' of these 2018 trains...in that respect, they have done their usual great job. Retrofitting them with PF to keep them compatible with my existing trains has been a simple task (and I already had plenty of spare PF gear), but for a train enthusiast like me already heavily invested in PF, the 50% extra cost of each train (compared to previous releases) plus another 50% for the cost of replacing the PU with PF (receiver, battery box and motor) is an issue.

Obviously, with unmotorised sets like Horizon Express or the Maersk Train, the option to retrofit either control system (once the PU components are available separately) gives more options. If LEGO bring out new Creator or Expert sets in the future without including electronics, then happy days whichever flavour of control you prefer, assuming of course TLG don't now decide to retire PF...

I best get some more PF receivers and train motors before they become obsolete!

 

 

Edited August 5, 2018 by retrotecchie

[Mr Hobbles]

2 hours ago, retrotecchie said:

So the limitations seem to be as follows.

One train per controller. No ability to control two trains from a single controller.

Unless you have two motors connected to the same hub, having two sets of buttons on the remote seems pointless. You cannot use two motors (A and B) in the same train running from the same hub because of the cable length and the inability to reverse the polarity of the motor (like you could with PF).

Even with hubs and controllers on the same 'channel', they don't talk to each other.

I'm guessing that most of the issues you're running into are because you've been unable to update the Hubs firmware up until now. I sympathise, but it is quite common in today's day and age for companies to update hardware after it's been out in the wild. I echo one of the suggestions above, perhaps find a friend or family member with a more recent/capable phone or tablet to install the app for you.

I got the Powered Up Batmobile recently, and it wanted to update the Hub before I could control it (tip for you: don't buy this, it doesn't come with a controller, it requires the app, though it is compatible with the train remote for basic movement out of the box). I'm betting that as Lego release more sets with Powered Up, they'll keep updating the firmware in the Hub to support whatever features those new sets have.

It's worth noting that even Power Functions received upgrades - there were bugs in the first IR receiver, and Lego released a v2 model with later sets that fixed those bugs. They also released more PF battery boxes over time, with more functions. I consider it an advantage that they can update the hardware without me needing to buy newer hardware (if you can update the firmware, of course).

In any event, I can say that the above statement of yours isn't true. It may require you to update your firmware, however I have 3 three trains, one with two Hubs (One in the front loco and one in the back loco), four hubs in total on three channels, all controlled with a single controller. To reverse the polarity of a motor, simply rotate the button on the controller around. However I'm also hoping they release a polarity reversing cable like they did with PF.

Regarding your comment on "everything should work out of the box" - well, everything advertised on the box *does* work out of the box. You can control the train you bought with the controller it came with right? 

Edited August 5, 2018 by Mr Hobbles

[justinwebb]

It will run on anything that has Apple iOS 10 or above.  Which is iPhone 5 and up and tons of iPads one of which came out in 2012 so not sure what you are on about with only 2017.