2018 Lego Trains

[Capparezza]

8 hours ago, Hod Carrier said:

@zephyr1934 *snip*

 

Well, a lot of your arguments are totally valid. But I'd like to shed a different light on it.

 

You say that the secondary market is there for us to cater. While this is true, I do think that you look at it completely from an AFOL viewpoint. How many 8 to 12 year olds (which seems to be the age range train sets are built for) do you know who are able to buy over Bricklink, BrickOwl or even directly from TLG to get those train parts? Do they have a credit card already? Do they even know about Bricklink and others? Do they even know that you can get those heavily needed train parts seperately?

 

Let me tell you a little story I have heard yesterday from a friend at work: When he was younger, he got that wonderful 7730 train. Every now and then he ventured into a local toy shop. Back then, LEGO had an extensive catalog of spare parts for their Trains. Small polybags, so called "Service Packs", which you could buy for a couple of "Schillings" (or whatever your currency might be). Even a kid on pocket money could afford a beg once in a while. And this is exactly what he did to complement his train set. On birth- or hollydays he was given smaller train sets to complement the 7730 and over time he built up quite a collection.

Fast forward to today: Is there any smaller train related set nowaydays to complement bigger ones? Are there any Service Packs available at local stores or even LEGO brand stores? Anything at the lower to mid 2-digit price range, where parents or grandparents do not have to think twice about value just to buy it?

 

Then there is the topic "Which loco shall it be?", American or European style, Diesel, Electro, Steamer? Well, doesn't matter, at least not if LEGO keeps churning out new sets now and then. If I have the option to buy at least 2 different types for as long as maybe 3 or 4 years until they change their lineup to include other types, it really doesn't matter with which model they start. Everyone will be satisfied in a given amount of time. And as we all know, we AFOLs are a patient folk. But right now we don't even get the chance to choose.

 

It's not quite clear if you are against smaller sets as a starter into the Trains hobby. But anyhow, take a look at how much people are asking for complementary sets from the 9V era. And then tell me that there is no market for such smaller sets...

[Vilhelm22]

11 hours ago, Capparezza said:

I don't know, but I think I wouldn't venture out too far if I said: None.

The only ideas MOC that I know of related to trains to reach 10,000 supporters was the modular train station created by LegoWolf. It, as everyone knows because it never came on sale, was not approved.

https://ideas.lego.com/projects/879f2041-22ea-4b06-9e34-ed074c4ce83a

[ElectroDiva]

14 hours ago, koalayummies said:

Yes! The stuff the AFOL MOC with trains is really inspiring and hands down some of the most detailed and realistic scale model style Lego building. Especially seeing the photos from the Lego shows/gatherings with massive collaborative fan-built layouts blending trains and city. I'm sure it not only attracts new adult Lego train fans but plenty of wide eyed kids. Even if Lego isn't providing the type of sets one wants, keep on MOCing.

MOCs are great for inspiration but I don't think they really get new people *actively* into the hobby. For that you have to have official sets. Just look at the anecdotes in the introduce yourself thread or the amount of new users (easily >10) who have popped up on just this one thread at the prospect of new official Trains.

 

I think TLG recognise that but it's a balancing act for them - what's the optimal amount of money for them to invest in dedicated train sets to get the return they're looking for? They have clearly reached the conclusion that 2-3 "City" themed train sets (cargo + passenger + station) every 4 years or so is optimal, with the occasional more specialised/expert set released in between that schedule.

 

However, I do think this approach is a little short sighted of them. In my opinion, Trains are like a gateway drug for buying significant quantities of Lego. For a start, people generally don't want to stop at one, they want different locos, cargo and track options. Then, when they're really hooked, they want  some scenery and ideally a city layout with modular buildings etc to run them in (even if like me they don't have the space for it yet !! :)

 

If TLG wanted to, they could dial down the profit margins a bit and release more Train sets to encourage that effect.

 

For me, the sweet spot would be 3 City themed sets (cargo + passenger + station) every *3* years, and one Creator expert type set for each of the two years in between that (possibly making alternate Creator sets a 3 in 1 for a bit more flexibility).

 

That way we would get at least 1 decent set per year - not too much to ask for is it?

12 hours ago, Zetroc said:

Though the TLR franchise gave us the wonderful 79111 Constitution Train Chase, which many of us have modded into an even better set.  I anglicised the styling and added PF and a 24-stud Emerald Night passenger car (BrickLinked) plus some MOC wagons.  It now forms the basis of my growing 1950s English village and, for me, surpasses 10194 Emerald Night.

That sounds pretty cool. Got any pics / vids we can take a look at?

Edited January 25, 2018 by ElectroDiva

[Duq]

1 hour ago, Vilhelm22 said:

The only ideas MOC that I know of related to trains to reach 10,000 supporters was the modular train station created by LegoWolf. It, as everyone knows because it never came on sale, was not approved.

https://ideas.lego.com/projects/879f2041-22ea-4b06-9e34-ed074c4ce83a

Don't forget the vintage tram:

https://ideas.lego.com/projects/b0b4ae39-1c8c-4f31-ad9b-af7df3cabf6a

[Hod Carrier]

2 hours ago, Capparezza said:

I do think that you look at it completely from an AFOL viewpoint.

Yes, and I have done so deliberately because this is a community of AFOLs and that is who I am addressing my comments towards, and it seems that the thrust of the discussion is around what's in it for us, both individually and as a community.

 

2 hours ago, Capparezza said:

It's not quite clear if you are against smaller sets as a starter into the Trains hobby. But anyhow, take a look at how much people are asking for complementary sets from the 9V era. And then tell me that there is no market for such smaller sets...

I have admitted my bias against sets based on my own prejudices and experiences, but I have also said that there is a place for sets. I make no claims concerning the size of the market nor the levels of demand, but as you have raised the point I do wonder if this demand is largely from the collectors of sets or those who want the items for play or to add to their layouts. If it's the former then they will only be satisfied with the box containing all the parts, but if it's the latter there are alternative ways of getting what they want. Bricklink gives them the list of parts needed and access to a marketplace to purchase all they need while the Official Sets in LDD thread allows them to download the .lxf file for each set showing how the parts all go together. Alternatively, LEGO is sufficiently flexible to allow people's imaginations to run riot and come up with all the trains, vehicles, buildings and infrastructure that they desire in the styles, shapes and colours that they want, rather than relying on the restrictive offerings inside the average LEGO branded box.

Edited January 25, 2018 by Hod Carrier

[Vilhelm22]

16 hours ago, icemorons said:

It should use the same track as has been in use since the end of the 9V era.  From what we have been able to determine, the buffer is a brick-built structure that attaches to a normal piece of track.

I kind of meant will the passenger set have 16 curves and 4 straights and the cargo set with 20 curves, 8 straights and 2 points.

[Capparezza]

20 minutes ago, Hod Carrier said:

Yes, and I have done so deliberately because this is a community of AFOLs and that is who I am addressing my comments towards, and it seems that the thrust of the discussion is around what's in it for us, both individually and as a community.

We may be a community of AFOLs. But LEGO is clearly not releasing sets for our target group (not anymore, at least - see MyOwnTrain). In another thread (or was it here?) there has been the statement from 2013 that we, the AFOL community, account only for around 3% to 5% of global revenue. So the only way to get something "in it for us" means that we have to deal with what LEGO deems appropriate for children.

And that's what it's all about - LEGO releasing sets for children.

Clearly, no small toddler can churn out 120 bucks for a train set from his or her pocket money. Relying only on parents or other relatives to build up future Train AFOL potential seems a bit limiting to me. As long as LEGO doesn't deem smaller sets and addons (not to speak of the comeback of train related Service Packs) appropriate, this potential lies bare. That was the point I tried to make, I hope I didn't loose you on the "tracks"

[PeteM]

30 minutes ago, Vilhelm22 said:

I kind of meant will the passenger set have 16 curves and 4 straights and the cargo set with 20 curves, 8 straights and 2 points.

Not sure, but the cargo train box art only shows one set of points and a buffer stop - the latter would indicate a’ spur’ rather than passing loop and, as such, only one sets of points included. However, it’s possible this was provisional art or may not be showing everything, so all the above is supposition :)

[Hod Carrier]

@Capparezza You make my point for me very succinctly. Thank you.

Indeed, TLG is not interested in us and sees us as a very niche market. Therefore they won’t invest in large, complex sets of the type that AFOLs will find satisfying. Certainly they won’t be looking to keep up the momentum to drive forward a Trains theme. Therefore it is pointless for us to keep on hoping that somehow they’re going to do precisely that.

There are two possible ways to address this. The first seems to be the approach you espouse which is somehow to increase the market, which I addressed in my post last night. For adults it’s a case of showing what is possible, as @zephyr1934 suggested, and for kids it’s about selling toys to the parents.

I certainly do understand your point, but it’s a bit “chicken and egg”. Does the supply create the demand or should the supply be in response to demand? That’s where business decisions are made, and I think TLG are experienced enough to work that out. Based on the My Own Train experiment I’m not sure that the supply does drive the demand. Now there’s obviously a discussion around the relative merits of that theme, but I would imagine that it’s not necessarily an experiment that TLG will wish to repeat.

[00bricker]

On 23.01.2018 at 5:12 AM, robomeister said:

Всем привет,

Первая публикация. Вот один из пунктов моего списка пожеланий для поездов LEGO.

То, что я хотел бы увидеть, будет соответствовать теме Disney World или, по крайней мере, пойти с Замком Золушки, который мы получили в прошлом году. Я бы хотел увидеть набор экспертов для авторов, который мог бы быть набором из 4 в 1 для всех четырех паровых двигателей Walt Disney World Railroad. Если вы посмотрите на страницу wiki для железной дороги ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walt_Disney_World_Railroad ), есть 4 разных паровых двигателя. Существует 4-6-0 с красным котлом, красная кабина и красный тендер, 2-6-0 с зеленым котелом, зеленой кабиной и зеленым тентом; 4-6-0 с зеленым котлом, красной кабиной и красной тенью; и 4-4-0 с красным котлом, зеленой кабиной и зеленой тенью. Это может быть похоже на старый комплект Train Train, в котором было множество разных моделей. Каждый из поездов имеет 5 легковых автомобилей разных цветов (красный, зеленый, желтый и синий).

Этого никогда не будет, но было бы здорово, если бы это произошло.

Благодаря,

robomeister

This trains identical to toy story train. I think, we don't see it again

[koalayummies]

8 hours ago, ElectroDiva said:

MOCs are great for inspiration but I don't think they really get new people *actively* into the hobby. For that you have to have official sets. Just look at the anecdotes in the introduce yourself thread or the amount of new users (easily >10) who have popped up on just this one thread at the prospect of new official Trains.

Well it did work for me personally. I've always liked Lego trains but post 'dark ages' my interest in getting back into trains was entirely the work of the amazing MOC builders here. True that new sets will bring a lot more new interest (and are always welcomed as the train fans appear to have to wait half a decade between new official Lego offerings) but for me seeing what was being built here by individuals well beyond the detail and simplicity of the official product is what really sparked the interest. 

[andythenorth]

9 hours ago, Capparezza said:

Let me tell you a little story I have heard yesterday from a friend at work: When he was younger, he got that wonderful 7730 train. Every now and then he ventured into a local toy shop. Back then, LEGO had an extensive catalog of spare parts for their Trains. Small polybags, so called "Service Packs", which you could buy for a couple of "Schillings" (or whatever your currency might be). Even a kid on pocket money could afford a beg once in a while.

When I was a kid I used to buy from the 'order parts' form in the back of the catalogue.  

Pick-a-brick on lego.com has train wheels, but not couplings or baseplates (as far as I can see using the filters - might be wrong).

I'm an AFOL, but I have no interest in buying trains other than the sets (for my kids).  But I did buy a lot of train parts from Bricklink, which my kids are now using to build MOCs. 

If you're not an AFOL and not savvy about Bricklink, there's no obvious way from TLG to build yourself more trains.   Unless I'm just looking at pick-a-brick wrong 

Edited January 25, 2018 by andythenorth

[ColletArrow]

40 minutes ago, andythenorth said:

If you're not an AFOL and not savvy about Bricklink, there's no obvious way from TLG to build yourself more trains.   Unless I'm just looking at pick-a-brick wrong 

I don't think there is. When I decided to start train MOCing (having only had 7936), I first looked to pick-a-brick, and found nothing. I then looked to ebay, and then somehow found Bricklink. I wasn't quite sure how to use it, so my first order was (deliberately) just 4 lengths of straight rail! I eventually bought wheels, couplers and all the other parts necessary, but it took a long time.

I would have loved, and still would love, a smaller train set; perhaps without PF, just to get people  going. However, it seems unlikely TLG will ever release such a set, so I'm happy watching for the new big sets every year, knowing I'm never going to buy myself one. 

[Grrr]

What would be helpful would be some really basic add-on sets that Lego could easily sell and would supply us with the requisite parts. A barebones freight truck (eg a modern equivilent to set 166) would do the trick nicely - kid's can use them to expand a freight train, and AFOLs get access to reasonably priced train chassis for moccing. The moment a retailer wants to clear these out; AFOLs will just pick up the lot.

A modern set which has proven it's worth in retrospect is 7936 - definately one I'd like to see Lego explore another version of too.

 

[Capparezza]

59 minutes ago, Grrr said:

A modern set which has proven it's worth in retrospect is 7936 - definately one I'd like to see Lego explore another version of too.

Hell, yes. That's the type of set I was taking about. Glad I have this one, my little one has so much fun playing with it, putting the excavator on the rails and let it be pushed by trains, haha. And it was pretty cheap. Only sold in the U.S. as a Special through LEGO stores or Toys'r'Us. And unfortunately discontinued since 2012...

[icemorons]

7 minutes ago, Capparezza said:

Hell, yes. That's the type of set I was taking about. Glad I have this one, my little one has so much fun playing with it, putting the excavator on the rails and let it be pushed by trains, haha. And it was pretty cheap. Only sold in the U.S. as a Special through LEGO stores or Toys'r'Us. And unfortunately discontinued since 2012...

When I was still not-quite-emerged from my dark ages, I bought an Ebay lot of mostly City stuff for my kids.  It was a jumbled mess of parts, but after sorting everything, I ended up with several bricks that had stickers affixed -- their set numbers, as I later learned.   One yellow brick had 7936.  After researching, and figuring out what a cool set it appeared to be, I set forth trying to build it.   With just a couple exceptions, every piece I needed was contained in that chaotic mess of pieces from the lot, save for the tracks that had not been included.   My point is, sometimes you take the path less traveled, and are the better for it.   My experience, starting with just one stickered brick, led me on a journey that I wouldn't have experienced had I just bought the set outright.  I find the research-and-build aspect fascinating.   In my mind, I call this phenomenon "LEGO archaeology".   Now, I'm cobbling together the occasional MOC, and I'm finding that incredibly rewarding, too!  

If those small sets like 7936 didn't exist, those adventures would never have taken place.   We need more official sets like this!   

1 hour ago, Grrr said:

A barebones freight truck (eg a modern equivilent to set 166) would do the trick nicely - kid's can use them to expand a freight train, and AFOLs get access to reasonably priced train chassis for moccing. The moment a retailer wants to clear these out; AFOLs will just pick up the lot.

If TLG released a 24-stud train base, two magnet buffer couplers, two bogie plates, two 2x6 plates, two 2x4 plates, and four 2878c02 wheelsets as a barebones set, for a reasonable price, they'd have a winner on their hands!    They'd sell millions of them.   Everyone who wanted additional flatcars for their trains could buy as many as they want.   Those who aspire for something greater, like a boxcar, livestock car, gondola, etc, would merely have to add their own bricks and MOC up whatever car they wanted from the pre-fab flatcar base.   It's a win for everyone!    This is the exact small set that's needed...

[Capparezza]

10 minutes ago, icemorons said:

When I was still not-quite-emerged from my dark ages, I bought an Ebay lot of mostly City stuff for my kids.  It was a jumbled mess of parts...

Seems we both bought the same lot! Alas, mine was not from Ebay. And not from the US either... err.... Anyhow, that's exactly the same situation how I ended up with this set: Having bought an incredibly cheap LEGO lot, initially just because of the yellow freight train in it, realized later that it must have been the 7939 Super Pack with the Station and Taxi + 7936 + several Star Wars sets which I have sold later on (I'm not into Star Wars). And what a luck: Not a single piece was missing!

In fact, I did something like that 2 more times. But never ever had that much fun or luck as with above lot.

BTW: Currently not a single station available through LEGO! Even the last one is marked as "Retired".

[Nexogeek]

13 minutes ago, Capparezza said:

BTW: Currently not a single station available through LEGO! Even the last one is marked as "Retired".

Winter Village Station is still fairly new so chances are we may not see a new one for city till the next time we get trains related stuff in city after this summer wave. 

Also with us getting trains in 2018 and Lego still pushing TLBM sets anyone else hope we get the bat train? 

10 hours ago, Duq said:

Don't forget the vintage tram:

https://ideas.lego.com/projects/b0b4ae39-1c8c-4f31-ad9b-af7df3cabf6a

I would love to see a set like this one day, even if its a creator 3 in 1

[ColletArrow]

@icemorons @Capparezza Well, that makes 3 of us! It was bought intentionally, but 7936 was my first (and only!) official train set. I loved it! Even though I only had the 4 track sections, it fitted into my street scene as a railway under construction. Nothing like it has been offered since, and the number of train-related-but-not-actually-train sets seems to be decreasing - we don't even get a station this year, potentially due to the Winter Village one. It seems like a shame, but TLG will know what they're doing. I suppose it didn't sell all that well; perhaps people who wanted level crossings for their cities bought didn't buy copies of it, as they would end up with too many excavators?

[Grrr]

3 minutes ago, ColletArrow said:

@icemorons @Capparezza Well, that makes 3 of us! It was bought intentionally, but 7936 was my first (and only!) official train set. I loved it! Even though I only had the 4 track sections, it fitted into my street scene as a railway under construction. Nothing like it has been offered since, and the number of train-related-but-not-actually-train sets seems to be decreasing - we don't even get a station this year, potentially due to the Winter Village one. It seems like a shame, but TLG will know what they're doing. I suppose it didn't sell all that well; perhaps people who wanted level crossings for their cities bought didn't buy copies of it, as they would end up with too many excavators?

That set was good in that you got straight tracks at a modest price without having to buy curves. The excavator is easier to use for mocs or move on then ever more curved tracks.

[Steamdemon]

16 minutes ago, Nexogeek said:

Also with us getting trains in 2018 and Lego still pushing TLBM sets anyone else hope we get the bat train? 

I'm hoping so too. Either the classic bat train or the LEGO Batman Movie version would be awesome...With or without driving rods would be fine.

Edited January 25, 2018 by Steamdemon

[icemorons]

5 minutes ago, ColletArrow said:

@icemorons @Capparezza Well, that makes 3 of us! It was bought intentionally, but 7936 was my first (and only!) official train set. I loved it! Even though I only had the 4 track sections, it fitted into my street scene as a railway under construction. Nothing like it has been offered since, and the number of train-related-but-not-actually-train sets seems to be decreasing - we don't even get a station this year, potentially due to the Winter Village one. It seems like a shame, but TLG will know what they're doing. I suppose it didn't sell all that well; perhaps people who wanted level crossings for their cities bought didn't buy copies of it, as they would end up with too many excavators?

If it were still available today, and at its original price of US $19.99, it would be a good deal even if all you cared about was the 4 straight pieces of track and the crossing.   As far as "too many excavators" is concerned, just throw those yellow parts into a spare parts bin.  You'd be able to use the windshield and wheels for any vehicle based-MOC you wanted.   The part # 2376 (Tile, Round 2 x 2 with Lifting Ring Thin) would be great to have in excess, as it can be used for freight yard crane exploits.   The tiny train wheels might even have a use for a hand-car, or something similar.   

[Nexogeek]

1 minute ago, Steamdemon said:

I'm hoping so too. Either the classic bat train or the LEGO Batman Movie version would be awesome...With or without driving rods would be fine.

My hope is if we did get it, it would have an addition to the batcave break-in set (like the shuttle did) where there would be a few batsuits, weapons rack and a small train station

[andythenorth]

FYI, for AFOLs, Bricklink offers some of the older train stuff at fair prices. 

This crane sells for same price TLG would charge for it retail if released now, it's a good set: https://www.bricklink.com/v2/catalog/catalogitem.page?S=4552-1#T=S&O={"ss":"UK","iconly":0}

TLG included an updated version of this in one of the recent freight sets https://brickset.com/sets?query=4546 . If they did that standalone as a Great Vehicle set, with a tipping bed or crane, and 2 coupler pieces included (for shunting freight cars), it would be a nice complement to both trains and city (fits with the city trams as well as trains).

The rest: you want em, you build em 

Edited January 25, 2018 by andythenorth

[ScotNick]

 

3 hours ago, Grrr said:

A modern set which has proven it's worth in retrospect is 7936 - definately one I'd like to see Lego explore another version of too.

It's funny, that @Capparezza alked about small kids buying small additional sets by themselves, because I got this set back then.At this time (already 6 years ago) I wouldn't have been able to afford anything big, so I was happy to get at least this set. It ddn't get me into trains, but it definitely helped me to bridge the time :)