2018 Lego Trains

[koalayummies]

4 hours ago, Digger of Bricks said:

I've said this on many other topics (even here) countless times before, but I think that track-less, Power Function-less three-in-one Creator sets are the way to go for cheaper train sets. Just simply do US $40-$60 sets with a small locomotive as the star build (tank engines or shunter diesels, for instance), then include instructions for two passenger/freight car alternate builds to encourage others to buy multiple copies of the set (if they wish).

I'm on board with that. Add me to the list of those that prefer trains sans-PF. Nothing wrong with the trains that have them and they should absolutely still have PF trains but like @Toxic43 and @Bricked1980 I too prefer to remove the motors and just push the trains (if I'm 'playing' at all). 

[Capparezza]

It's interesting how often that old "LEGO has been there, it didn't work and will never ever work" argument pops up. Ok, so for all of you aboard that train (haha): Coca Cola was not that big hit in the beginning. Maybe they should have stopped there instead improving their product AND their marketing... Right?

 

I don't see anything wrong with smaller, more affordable sets as a gateway / starter for future train addicts. Who buys a child of 9 something worth around 120 bucks as is asked for current City Train sets??? No one! This is a price range that is becoming common at around 14, when most children nowadays loose interest in toys at all and focus more on tablets, smartphones and the like.

It was the marketing (and sometimes also the products) that didn't work out in the past. Either you improve and adapt or you give up. LEGO chose the second option.

Edited January 23, 2018 by Capparezza

[CDM]

32 minutes ago, Capparezza said:

I don't see anything wrong with smaller, more affordable sets as a gateway / starter for future train addicts. Who buys a child of 9 something worth around 120 bucks as is asked for current City Train sets??? No one! This is a price range that is becoming common at around 14, when most children nowadays loose interest in toys at all and focus more on tablets, smartphones and the like.

Imagine you're a kid and your mom / dad says 'Pick out a set'. On the shelf is a police set, a fire set, and a train locomotive. You're new to trains and you don't have track or any rolling stock. So you can ether choose the police / fire (or any other Great Vehicle for that matter) and build your City collection or you can pick the locomotive knowing you can't do anything with it until you get more sets. The kid is going to pick the police or fire or whatever other car / truck 9 out of 10 times.

 

[pirzyk]

2 hours ago, fred67 said:

I keep reading about BMR's "sets", but I don't see that they sell anything but instructions and decals (and wheel sets).

They don't last very long on their site.  I think the original boxcar set was a run of 25 and may have sold out in 1 to 2 days before BW.

 

2 hours ago, Carrera124 said:

Well, but nobody forced them to do the theme at all. I don't believe that Disney is able to push them, if TLG is convinced to have bad selling figures.

Actually yes they are forced (contractually obligated) to commit to a certain number of sets produced *before* the movie is even created.  If TLG balks at it, they may not get the next big Disney production (think Star Wars, etc).  Remember the Lone Ranger was produced when Johnny Depp was printing monies for everyone with the Pirates of the Caribbean franchise.

[Kalahari134]

35 minutes ago, CDM said:

Imagine you're a kid and your mom / dad says 'Pick out a set'. On the shelf is a police set, a fire set, and a train locomotive. You're new to trains and you don't have track or any rolling stock. So you can ether choose the police / fire (or any other Great Vehicle for that matter) and build your City collection or you can pick the locomotive knowing you can't do anything with it until you get more sets. The kid is going to pick the police or fire or whatever other car / truck 9 out of 10 times.

 

60051 has an RRP of £109. Included in the seat are a PF controller, receiver, battery and motor, each with an RRP (when sold separately) of more than £10. If the PF parts weren't included (advertised as something that can be bought separately like with the Creator fairground rides) the price point could be brought down by something like £20-£30 which would be more affordable as an entry level set. It would still be attractive to children because many (as people have said above) like having a train you can push along.

[legotownlinz]

There could be a great future for Lego trains. I'm collection Lego, N and H0 trains and all but Lego sucks when you actually want to play. N trains look great because they are usually made to scale, but they often don't work reliable. H0 models are either expensive or not to scale and a decent H0 layout takes lots of place. Both N and H0 models are too sensitive to run them on the floor, but most people don't have an extra room to build a permanent layout (which gets boring when completed). Sometimes it is even difficult to find a spot to touch a model without breaking off handrails or other small details. When I invite friends, I make sure they handle the trains with care before I allow them to play. All in all, N and H0 gauge are nice if you have a large room left or if you just want to collect models and displays them in a showcase. Otherwise, Lego is perfect and if there are more products like the Horizon Express or the Maersk train, it could attract many adult model railroaders. And it's nearly impossible to destroy a Lego train. All I've damaged so far is the yellow lever of a switch.

[Carrera124]

1 hour ago, pirzyk said:

Actually yes they are forced (contractually obligated) to commit to a certain number of sets produced *before* the movie is even created.  If TLG balks at it, they may not get the next big Disney production (think Star Wars, etc).  Remember the Lone Ranger was produced when Johnny Depp was printing monies for everyone with the Pirates of the Caribbean franchise.

But who forced them to sign the contract?

[Dan-147]

1 hour ago, Carrera124 said:

But who forced them to sign the contract?

If you were LEGO would you say no to Star Wars?

[Carrera124]

I'd say no to bundled contracts

[zephyr1934]

 

23 hours ago, M_slug357 said:

What IS the best way to attract new members to our flock?

We as AFOLs need to keep building really great trains, show them off, take some time to make good designs to share (ideally with stickers to make the build pop), and attract 100's of new AFOL rail fans around the world each year. Far smaller market than Lego is interested in serving directly, but as I said, they are producing the parts we need to build MOCs, and what isn't available from lego is starting to show up in the third party market. The fact that new City trains continue to be released is good for all, some of us like to build, collect and run them as is. Others like to use the train parts contained therein to build something else.

The winter village train and depot might have even been a deliberate boost from TLG to help our hobby. Since the sets are tied in to an annual collector series, they will sell to people who would not otherwise think of lego trains. Get people looking and some of them will be hooked.

I took my lego trains to my son's model railroad club open house and most of the club members jaws hit the floor. At pretty much any public display most people do not even realize that the trains are lego. But yes, even with well written instructions, there is still a huge learning curve to figure out bricklink or other sources of bricks. That is where clubs and forums like this come in, welcome all who are interested and offer tips and support.

While it would be great if someone produced 3rd party train sets, a quality build would likely have to be more than $0.30 per part to make it worthwhile for someone to assemble the sets. So here too, they would only reach a limited market.

 

7 hours ago, Kalahari134 said:

60051 has an RRP of £109. Included in the seat are a PF controller, receiver, battery and motor, each with an RRP (when sold separately) of more than £10. If the PF parts weren't included (advertised as something that can be bought separately like with the Creator fairground rides) the price point could be brought down by something like £20-£30 which would be more affordable as an entry level set. It would still be attractive to children because many (as people have said above) like having a train you can push along.

By selling all of the PF parts in the set Lego can subsidize the rest of the train parts. If they excluded the PF then the set would likely have to be more expensive than simply subtracting the retail price of the PF components.

[Paperballpark]

9 hours ago, Carrera124 said:

I'd say no to bundled contracts

Who says it was a bundled contract?

Disney: "Hey Lego, we have a really cool new Lone Ranger film coming out next year! It's got Johnny Depp in it, and it's going to be a real hit! Do you want to make some Lego sets to tie in with it? They'll be bound to sell, especially with Johnny Depp in the film!"

Lego: "That sounds pretty good, yeah why not?"

The point is that Lego will have agreed to make sets based on a conversation with Disney about the forthcoming film. Both Disney and Lego will have assumed it would be a hit - or at very least fairly successful - otherwise Lego probably wouldn't have done the sets, and more to the point, Disney wouldn't have made the film!

[Carrera124]

16 minutes ago, Paperballpark said:

Who says it was a bundled contract?

If it wasn‘t a bundled contract, why couldn‘t Lego refuse to produce the LR sets without the fear of getting no license for SW?

Either way, they must have thought that LR will sell well, but they were wrong in this case. That‘s natural because they are human. So, there is a probability that they are wrong in other cases (e. g. trains), too.

[sed6]

6 hours ago, zephyr1934 said:

By selling all of the PF parts in the set Lego can subsidize the rest of the train parts. If they excluded the PF then the set would likely have to be more expensive than simply subtracting the retail price of the PF components.

Well, the exact same can be said for AFOL's. We should buy the 1000 piece PF trains for $150, sell the PF parts for $50 on the secondary market (doing other AFOL's a real favor given their relative scarcity) and now we're back to $.10 per piece and have exactly what we want. I win (PF fan), Lego wins, secondary market wins and push train fans win. Everyone wins! 

[BurkusCircus]

18 minutes ago, sed6 said:

Well, the exact same can be said for AFOL's. We should buy the 1000 piece PF trains for $150, sell the PF parts for $50 on the secondary market (doing other AFOL's a real favor given their relative scarcity) and now we're back to $.10 per piece and have exactly what we want. I win (PF fan), Lego wins, secondary market wins and push train fans win. Everyone wins! 

One problem though, as much as I love the idea, is that you would need to replace the motor truck on the engine. But other than that this sounds great! 

[Vilhelm22]

Do we think the track for the train sets will be the same?  The new cargo train seems to have buffers.

Edited January 24, 2018 by Vilhelm22

[icemorons]

3 minutes ago, Vilhelm22 said:

Do we think the track for the train sets will be the same?  The new cargo train seems to have buffers.

It should use the same track as has been in use since the end of the 9V era.  From what we have been able to determine, the buffer is a brick-built structure that attaches to a normal piece of track.

[Carrera124]

23 hours ago, Capparezza said:

It's interesting how often that old "LEGO has been there, it didn't work and will never ever work" argument pops up.

That's the main issue. I think that trains are not a big thing as they used to be in the past.

But I think they could be better than TLG handles them today. Right now, Lego releases ~ 300 real sets and an additional ~ 300 polybags etc. each year.

3 or 4 addtional smaller sets (single waggons, some trackside structures, etc.) really wouldn't blow up the complete product range.
And I think that they wouldn't be the worst selling products, compared to all the hundreds of new sets each year.

[Nexogeek]

2 minutes ago, Carrera124 said:

That's the main issue. I think that trains are not a big thing as they used to be in the past.

But I think they could be better than TLG handles them today. Right now, Lego releases ~ 300 real sets and an additional ~ 300 polybags etc. each year.

3 or 4 addtional smaller sets (single waggons, some trackside structures, etc.) really wouldn't blow up the complete product range.
And I think that they wouldn't be the worst selling products, compared to all the hundreds of new sets each year.

Lego sure does release WAY to many sets per year, and if the recent trend continues even more expensive sets a year, i don't see why we can't get a few train related sets per year and a little less of everything else to balance things out from the same old things repeated 

[koalayummies]

14 hours ago, zephyr1934 said:

We as AFOLs need to keep building really great trains, show them off, take some time to make good designs to share (ideally with stickers to make the build pop), and attract 100's of new AFOL rail fans around the world each year.

Yes! The stuff the AFOL MOC with trains is really inspiring and hands down some of the most detailed and realistic scale model style Lego building. Especially seeing the photos from the Lego shows/gatherings with massive collaborative fan-built layouts blending trains and city. I'm sure it not only attracts new adult Lego train fans but plenty of wide eyed kids. Even if Lego isn't providing the type of sets one wants, keep on MOCing.

[Zetroc]

How many train MOCs have received 10,000 votes on Ideas?

[Capparezza]

I don't know, but I think I wouldn't venture out too far if I said: None.

[Trekkie99]

One. 

[Zetroc]

Indeed.  And that was in the most part because of its connection to a much-loved franchise.

TLG has the data it needs, and basic City sets it will be for the foreseeable future.  

On 1/23/2018 at 5:37 PM, Carrera124 said:

E.g. the "Lone Ranger" theme - this was a huge flop, demand was way less than TLG seems to have expected.

 

Though the TLR franchise gave us the wonderful 79111 Constitution Train Chase, which many of us have modded into an even better set.  I anglicised the styling and added PF and a 24-stud Emerald Night passenger car (BrickLinked) plus some MOC wagons.  It now forms the basis of my growing 1950s English village and, for me, surpasses 10194 Emerald Night.

Edited January 24, 2018 by Zetroc

[Hod Carrier]

I don't normally wade into discussions about sets because sets don't especially interest me, but if there's one thing that this thread illustrates it is that there are so many competing ideas that it would be impossible for TLG to cater to all of them. Do they go for steam, diesel or electric? Something following American or European styles? Track or no track? What about PF? Full sets or stand-alone vehicles? I'm sure if anyone is reading this discussion in Billund they will be scratching their heads trying to pick all the bones out of this and come up with a strategy.

I have to say that I do agree completely with @zephyr1934. If we're primarily concerned with getting new AFOLs to take up the trains theme we ought to forget pushing TLG's woeful official offerings and instead we should carry on blowing their socks off with awesome MOCs that show just what is possible using nothing but LEGO bricks and some imagination. Serious mature rail modellers are interested in hyper-realism and showing them that it is possible to achieve this using nothing more than the humble LEGO brick is likely to pique more interest than waving an official set under their noses. If they really need a route into the hobby by means of an official set, these already exist. It almost doesn't matter what the set is because I am sure that it would be unsatisfying to people like this no matter what it is. Alternatively, it doesn't take very long to find LDD, Bricklink, this community and lots of excellent inspiration on sites like Flickr and they'll be off and running, as I was.

The same applies to getting kids into the hobby, because they really only care about it's play value. It doesn't matter how much we wail and gnash our teeth about helicopters and bank robbers and how many vehicles there are in the high speed passenger train because kids LOVE all that stuff. In this regard, TLG have got it spot on. What a child is likely to remember is how much fun it was playing with it, how you could crash it over and over again without ruining it and how you could change and customise the vehicles to suit different play scenarios. I would argue that the target audience for toys like this (for toys are what they are) is not the kids of any age but rather the parents who may be more interested in giving their child a robust and versatile toy that is likely to hold their interest more than a competing product that may only do one thing.

I will admit to being slightly biased against sets. Maybe it's because my childhood experiences of LEGO did not feature a single set of any type, but rather sorting through my available bricks and working out what I wanted to build and how I was going to realise it. As a consequence I do find this reliance on TLG to provide us with official nourishment a little depressing when we are just as capable of going away and imagining what we want to build and then turning that imagination into reality. Naturally not everyone is going to immediately come up with a hyper-realistic 10-wide Big Boy, but that doesn't matter. Those people who can produce such amazing models provide the inspiration for the rest of us while others may wish to plough entirely different furrows. Such is the versatility of the hobby that the possibilities are limited only by our imaginations. I know I've said this before, but if there's one thing that I would like to see come out of TLG's lackadaisical attitude towards official trains releases it is the desire amongst the AFOL trains community to go out and build the models that they feel TLG should be releasing for themselves. At least then we can not claim to be disappointed in any way.

I'll close by saying that I do not believe that TLG has forgotten about us as long as trains of some sort are being released. It almost doesn't matter what sort of dross it is as long as wheels, motors and track continue to find their way into the secondary market.

[Younge]

6 hours ago, Hod Carrier said:

...if there's one thing that this thread illustrates it is that there are so many competing ideas that it would be impossible for TLG to cater to all of them. Do they go for steam, diesel or electric? Something following American or European styles? Track or no track? What about PF? Full sets or stand-alone vehicles? I'm sure if anyone is reading this discussion in Billund they will be scratching their heads trying to pick all the bones out of this and come up with a strategy.

I have to say that I do agree completely with @zephyr1934. If we're primarily concerned with getting new AFOLs to take up the trains theme we ought to forget pushing TLG's woeful official offerings and instead we should carry on blowing their socks off with awesome MOCs that show just what is possible using nothing but LEGO bricks and some imagination...

+1 Like!