2018 Lego Trains

[Grrr]

On ‎22‎/‎01‎/‎2018 at 5:55 PM, zephyr1934 said:

I would argue that we as the AFOL lego train community need a nice gateway set to help others join the hobby...

Interestingly, amoung AFOLs local to my area, the Winter Village Christmas train has been a great catalyst, however, many have felt let down by how difficult it is to get all the components required to motorise it, which is a shame.

[BurkusCircus]

7 hours ago, M_slug357 said:

I'll admit that I'm also not a fan of waiting around, especially if the cycle's gunna be every 3-5 years for something new to come our way.....!

What IS the best way to attract new members to our flock?

I think that there is five steps for TLG to take if it wants to boost the train theme:

1: Offer more than two train sets, a station, and a track pack or two. In an ideal world, a European diesel freight set, an American diesel freight set, and a passanger train. For the passenger train, HAVE BOTH AMERICAN AND EUROPEAN TRAINS!!! In addition to this, individual engines and cars. For engines, an American diesel, a European diesel, and electric (either American or European). For cars, one or two each of boxcars, tank cars, hoppers, single intermodal, double intermodal, caboose. Also maybe gondolas, flat cars, and other “play cars”, like dump cars or cranes. In addition, sell individual passenger cars to match the current set. And for track packs, offer x-crosses, grade crossings, switches, more curve radii, and packs with just straights.

2: Make Trains it’s own Theme, not a subtheme of City. They can definitely be cross compatible with City, in fact that’s where I would suggest that they sell stations and other train-related buildings in. This can have some big plublicity as it would be the first new non-liscenced theme since Friends.

3: DOORS ON EVERYTHING!! Engines, passenger cars, boxcars, intermodal containers, stations, other buildings, cabooses (cabeese?), all get doors! This offers play value to kiddos and realism to AFOLs.

4: Have individual engines without PF, a la Horizon Express, but sell a “Train PF” (motor, battery box, and IR receiver) set for maybe $15-20 and the PF controller for $10. This will reduce cost of th engines and make starter sets a bit more desirable since they would have it all built in. This allows makes it easier for the 9V folks.

5: No complete restockings. Have the sets replaced randomly year to year, instead of the fixed 3 years. Are you the bottom set in your category (Sets, Engines, Cars, other)? You get replaced! This keeps collectors on the edge of their seats hoping the set they want but can’t get doesn’t get discontinued.

These steps are what pretty much every LEGO Train fan wants, and would boost the market and selection for trains. So TLG is never going to do it.

[SpaceTwinky]

5 hours ago, Grrr said:

Interestingly, amoung AFOLs local to my area, the Winter Village Christmas train has been a great catalyst, however, many have felt let down by how difficult it is to get all the components required to motorise it, which is a shame.

That is what got me “hooked”.  I had no Lego trains at all until I bought the Winter Village Train.  After building that and finding it pretty interesting, I saw the 60052 on sale and bought one figuring if I hated it it would be no big loss.

A year plus later, I am a total addict and have over 8 trains that I slowly grabbed off EBay and Bricklink.  

Now I am here reading this forum, waiting impatiently for the August(?) trains to come out.  :)

[Paperballpark]

23 minutes ago, BurkusCircus said:

These steps are what pretty much every LEGO Train fan wants, but there aren't enough fans (or potential fans) to justify such decisions from a business point of view, so TLG is never going to do it.

Fixed that for you.

[BurkusCircus]

32 minutes ago, Paperballpark said:

Fixed that for you.

The thinking is that the action of those steps would create more LEGO Train fans.

Also, a man can dream... 

[Digger of Bricks]

59 minutes ago, BurkusCircus said:

Make Trains it’s own Theme, not a subtheme of City. They can definitely be cross compatible with City, in fact that’s where I would suggest that they sell stations and other train-related buildings in. 

This really, really needs to happen, as City has no room for so many other trains and locomotives beyond what are still currently operational on railways today. Plus, like you just said, sets can also encompass many railway related buildings such as signal houses. Now I'd imagine such a theme would have a more limited retail release, somewhat like the Speed Champions theme, with probably only four to six sets a year.

If a standalone theme isn't viable in any way at all, at least Lego should do a single train/locomotive set under the non-Expert Creator theme per year, preferably priced under US $100 most of the time.

[sebitsena]

21 minutes ago, Digger of Bricks said:

Plus, like you just said, sets can also encompass many railway related buildings such as signal houses.

If a standalone theme isn't viable in any way at all, at least Lego should do a single train/locomotive set under the non-Expert Creator theme per year, preferably priced under US $100 most of the time.

That's a great idea! I remember some interesting related builds in the 9V line!

Plus there were lots of related cars to add to the train 

4539-1: Manual Level Crossing

 

4555-1: Cargo Station

 

4553-1: Train Wash

 

4537-1: Octan Twin Tank Rail Tanker

 

4536-1: Blue Hopper Car

 

4549-1: Container Double Stack

 

4544-1: Car Transport Wagon with Car

 

[Bricked1980]

Unfortunately I think the TLG are only gonna produce trains more regularly if they were more popular with kids. The fact that the large train sets are so expensive means that they are never going to sell as well as some of the cheaper City sets and vehicles and they would simply be too expensive for a large proportion of parents to buy for their children.

Trains in general have and always been a timeless favourite amongst children though so I'm sure they would be more popular and sell very well if only they could be made a bit cheaper.

How's this for an idea... TLG could produce 1 or 2 train themed sets each year under the City theme. They needn't be a full size set with track, power functions etc. An engine on it's own could retail for around £40 which would be a much easier pill to swallow for most parents buying for their children. A motor and power functions could be added on separately if needs be but I bet many kids would be more than happy to just have a train they could build and push around. Rolling stock could also be sold as cheaper standalone sets but maybe this wouldn't be as popular as the engines.

Obviously these smaller sets would compliment the bigger full size train sets really well, but by making smaller cheaper sets they would be more accessible to a wider range of people.

So please Lego... rather than churning out constant re-hashes of helicopters, police vehicles and camper/caravans each year, give us some more trains in this price bracket instead!

[icemorons]

1 hour ago, SpaceTwinky said:

That is what got me “hooked”.  I had no Lego trains at all until I bought the Winter Village Train.  After building that and finding it pretty interesting, I saw the 60052 on sale and bought one figuring if I hated it it would be no big loss.

A year plus later, I am a total addict and have over 8 trains that I slowly grabbed off EBay and Bricklink.  

Now I am here reading this forum, waiting impatiently for the August(?) trains to come out.  :)

My story is similar, but much funnier!   At family Thanksgiving, I think in 2015, my kids were playing with my cousin's kids' 60051, which had been set up in a loft above the living room.   In fairly typical LEGO train fashion, they had it going too fast, and the engine jumped the tracks.   Now, here's the funny part--  The engine powered along the floor, threaded between two balusters, and plunged 15 feet to the living room floor below.   CRASH into hundreds of pieces.   Uh-oh, crying cousin's kid!   "Your kids destroyed my train!"    I was firmly ensconced in my dark ages, not having touched LEGO in, perhaps, 15-20 years.   I asked for the instruction book, which they readily produced.  All pieces were located.   Nothing looked broken.  Within 20 minutes, I had the 60051 engine reassembled, and it was running on the track again.   IT RAN ABSOLUTELY FINE!!!   Talk about robust, try a similar stunt with any traditional model railroad gear, and you'd be looking at an expensive trip to the hobby shop, at best.  (At worst, someone's year-long scratch-built bauble is gone forever...)

Based on their experience at Thanksgiving, my son asked for LEGO for his birthday later that year.   It started out innocently enough with a couple small city vehicle sets.   But then we took the plunge and got 60052 for his birthday the following year.   60051 arrived for the winter holidays in 2016.    Since then, we've added 60098, for my daughter's birthday.

I've been bitten hard.   Through Ebay, when I've seen the right deals, I've acquired 7939, 3677, 10233, 10219, 79111, 10194 (several, incomplete--but I have been able to get at least one 99% and running), and most recently, 7898.   My kids don't know about all of those yet, although they've seen some.   I've also bought parts to create our own MOC rolling stock, etc.    I've recently dug my vintage sets out of storage, and relived my youth reassembling 497 and 6929.  I never had LEGO trains as a child.    I'm learning now just how much I missed out on during my dark ages.    

For holiday 2016, I also got 10254, which I surprised the kids with by setting it up around the tree on Xmas eve, after they had gone to bed.

Bring on the new sets!

Edited January 23, 2018 by icemorons
Forgot about 10254.

[Digger of Bricks]

16 minutes ago, Bricked1980 said:

Trains in general have and always been a timeless favourite amongst children though so I'm sure they would be more popular and sell very well if only they could be made a bit cheaper.

I've said this on many other topics (even here) countless times before, but I think that track-less, Power Function-less three-in-one Creator sets are the way to go for cheaper train sets. Just simply do US $40-$60 sets with a small locomotive as the star build (tank engines or shunter diesels, for instance), then include instructions for two passenger/freight car alternate builds to encourage others to buy multiple copies of the set (if they wish).

[CDM]

1 hour ago, Bricked1980 said:

How's this for an idea... TLG could produce 1 or 2 train themed sets each year under the City theme. They needn't be a full size set with track, power functions etc. An engine on it's own could retail for around £40 which would be a much easier pill to swallow for most parents buying for their children. A motor and power functions could be added on separately if needs be but I bet many kids would be more than happy to just have a train they could build and push around. Rolling stock could also be sold as cheaper standalone sets but maybe this wouldn't be as popular as the engines.

Obviously these smaller sets would compliment the bigger full size train sets really well, but by making smaller cheaper sets they would be more accessible to a wider range of people.

So please Lego... rather than churning out constant re-hashes of helicopters, police vehicles and camper/caravans each year, give us some more trains in this price bracket instead!

Lego has tried this approach of stand alone train car sets. The fact that it was discontinued and not revisited is evidence enough that it's not a money maker. Let the dream die and be happy we get sets every 3 years. Same with the pink unicorn dream of a shunting locomotive. It's not going to happen.

[Toxic43]

6 minutes ago, Digger of Bricks said:

I've said this on many other topics (even here) countless times before, but I think that track-less, Power Function-less three-in-one Creator sets are the way to go for cheaper train sets. Just simply do US $40-$60 sets with a small locomotive as the star build (tank engines or shunter diesels, for instance), then include instructions for two passenger/freight car alternate builds to encourage others to buy multiple copies of the set (if they wish).

This! My kid hates the motorised trains. I spent ages adding another motor to his 60052 and now he doesn't play with it. He asked me the other day to take the motors out. All he likes to do is get a big line of trucks and coaches, hook up a steam engine and push them by hand. Loves pushing them! Hates the motors! Give kids the option instead of only expensive starter sets with buildings and track side structures they won't build or use (Our cranes for 7939 and 60052 sit un-built in the original bags right now). Give them cheap and simple and they will come in droves.

[pirzyk]

12 hours ago, fred67 said:

If they do any research into it, they see they can't just add rolling stock to the abysmal amount offered in full "sets."  Nor are they inclined to spend hundreds of dollars on a set of instructions and all the little bits and pieces they'd need to build any (like BMR or SRW).  Those instructions are great, the models are awesome, but pricing out all the pieces for someone who doesn't already have a large collection gets very expensive.

So we're at kind of an impasse with TLG.

I would like to see if any third parties out there would start putting out [more] complete sets.  I like BMR's sets but I do 6w so that doesn't really help me.  Brickmania seems to have success with selling complete sets, it would be nice if BMR and Brickmania have a love child

To get people to jump from the traditional train hobby to LEGO trains, we need high quality (aka Creator Expert level) sets.  They can be a bit more expensive because we're pricing against what they know; the traditional train sets.  I can see BMR/Brickmania filling this role but I think we need more content.

To get people to jump into the train hobby itself, we need less expensive sets (maybe Creator 3in1) that work with and augment the LEGO city sets.  Not sure who would do that.  Maybe some of the clone brands instead of ripping off LEGO could co-exist nicely?  </pipe-dream>

 

[Bricked1980]

14 minutes ago, Toxic43 said:

This! My kid hates the motorised trains. I spent ages adding another motor to his 60052 and now he doesn't play with it. He asked me the other day to take the motors out. All he likes to do is get a big line of trucks and coaches, hook up a steam engine and push them by hand. Loves pushing them! Hates the motors! Give kids the option instead of only expensive starter sets with buildings and track side structures they won't build or use (Our cranes for 7939 and 60052 sit un-built in the original bags right now). Give them cheap and simple and they will come in droves.

I agree, my kids are just as happy pushing their trains around. Very small children in particular much prefer to use their hands and push or pull the trains along. I see no reason why push along trains wouldn't sell well. They make plenty of other obscure vehicles under the city line so why not more trains?

I know some adult collectors would shudder at the idea of junior style push along trains, but as long as they are designed well and with the option to add a motor if desired then I don't see why this couldn't work.

25 minutes ago, Digger of Bricks said:

I've said this on many other topics (even here) countless times before, but I think that track-less, Power Function-less three-in-one Creator sets are the way to go for cheaper train sets. Just simply do US $40-$60 sets with a small locomotive as the star build (tank engines or shunter diesels, for instance), then include instructions for two passenger/freight car alternate builds to encourage others to buy multiple copies of the set (if they wish).

This is a great idea. Trains would be a perfect fit for Ceator 3in1.

Edited January 23, 2018 by Bricked1980

[Nexogeek]

25 minutes ago, Digger of Bricks said:

I've said this on many other topics (even here) countless times before, but I think that track-less, Power Function-less three-in-one Creator sets are the way to go for cheaper train sets. Just simply do US $40-$60 sets with a small locomotive as the star build (tank engines or shunter diesels, for instance), then include instructions for two passenger/freight car alternate builds to encourage others to buy multiple copies of the set (if they wish).

This! Or even if they do that and have one 3 in 1 that's just locomotive based with different locomotives as the three builds. Then have another 3 in 1 thats passenger and freight based builds, this still would encourage people to buy more then one if they want a longer train. I just wish they would make cheaper train sets $150 - $200 as the main price range is the main reason people (including myself) aren't able to get them. And have the different buildings be other sets instead of the weak "station" with passenger trains and cranes with cargo. 

[Myowntrain]

 

Quote

So please Lego... rather than churning out constant re-hashes of helicopters, police vehicles and camper/caravans each year, give us some more trains in this price bracket instead!

I totally agree. They could do a lot more than constantly releasing the same kind of stuff under the City theme. I mean TLG released so many times a train station, but in the whole history just one time a Train Engine Shed (10027). What is the reason for that?

Edited January 23, 2018 by Myowntrain

[Paperballpark]

To be honest, I think I'll leave you all to your dreams. TLG will have done enough research over the years to know what will work and what won't. Just stating on here that 'if they did X, Y would happen' is completely unverifiable and therefore merely speculation, nothing more. If however, you commission proper research and present the findings, then I'd be interested.

For example, stating 'if they took trains out of CITY and made it its own theme, it would do better', is merely opinion. Why wouldn't TLG do that if they thought the same? They are more likely to have done market research than you, so actually I suspect that taking trains out of CITY would probably be more likely to have the opposite effect. Tying it into the CITY theme gives kids and adults something they can work trains into, rather than it just being lonely on its own.

[Digger of Bricks]

1 hour ago, Toxic43 said:

This! My kid hates the motorised trains. I spent ages adding another motor to his 60052 and now he doesn't play with it. He asked me the other day to take the motors out. All he likes to do is get a big line of trucks and coaches, hook up a steam engine and push them by hand. Loves pushing them! Hates the motors!

Now even though these hypothetical sets would not include motors, they still would be built within L-Gauge standards, and even include suggested instructions for the motorization of the locomotive build.

1 hour ago, Bricked1980 said:

I know some adult collectors would shudder at the idea of junior style push along trains, but as long as they are designed well and with the option to add a motor if desired then I don't see why this couldn't work.

I'm surprised we haven't seen such a set yet, given how frequent we see train sets done for the Duplo theme. A Juniors train set would be a perfect opportunity to use that narrow gauge track first seen in that 2009 Temple of Doom set!

[Carrera124]

47 minutes ago, Paperballpark said:

To be honest, I think I'll leave you all to your dreams. TLG will have done enough research over the years to know what will work and what won't.

I don't think so. Surely, TLG does a lot of research. But they only believe that they know what will work and what won't. And how much, of course.

Otherwise, there would be no explanation of why they miscalculate the demand from time to time:
E.g. the "Lone Ranger" theme - this was a huge flop, demand was way less than TLG seems to have expected.
E.g. the introduction of the "Friends" theme - many sets were sold out long before Christmas - demand has been much higher than TLG had expected / calculated.

 

[Carefree_Dude]

12 hours ago, M_slug357 said:

 

What IS the best way to attract new members to our flock?

I'm working on it! I got an emerald night set up for my 7 month old son to play with! 

[fred67]

I disagree with almost all of you (big surprise - an executive I was on a planning team with gave me a copy of 12 Angry Men).  As I mentioned, you need a SET, not just an engine, to get people involved in the hobby.  We're talking generically, here - not outliers, but given the people who are potentially interested in trains, IMO (it's obviously all in my opinion, based on my experience as a parent and father who ended his dark ages because of LEGO 9V trains) most of them would want to be able to buy a complete starter set.

Here's the thing - if you want to make it more widely appealing, include the PF but also the bricks to make it push only.  Include an oval (not a circle) of track.  Like the winter train, you need several cars - not ONE, but several - three or four minimum; more for steam (adding a tender and caboose for completeness).  THEN you make available higher quality builds, creator 3-in-1 sets, maybe N-in-1 where builds could include a number of different cars (yes, like the failed Santa Fe cars, but only when interest becomes high enough).

The comments about the winter set above bear this out - a whole set with enough cars to make it interesting.  The sets TLG is releasing now don't include enough, and for most kids and adults, roll your own or BMR instructions plus weeks of bricklinking parts is not a viable alternative - simple rolling stock shouldn't cost more than BMR instructions do by themselves, with no parts.

I actually think MOT was phenomenal, and if it was a failure, it's because TLG didn't advertise it well enough - you didn't really see a lot of trains at TRU, you didn't see ANY MOT.  If the theme was fringe, it's because TLG made it that way.  I bought the Railway Express at Sam's Club for like half price when it was on it's way out.  I never knew TLG even made anything like it.... I bought 2, because I thought it was standalone, I didn't know you could buy track and motors separately.  I stumbled upon a LEGO Store Outlet (not even a "full" LEGO store) where I found packs of track!  Straight track, all by itself, not saddled with having to buy more curves.  I got the BNSF - a real train 100x better than the Railway Express; and finally found that I could order the MOT online (it was not in our store).  I was in heaven (for a very brief time, because the plug on 9V was pulled shortly thereafter).  I ordered several MOT steam engines, a bunch of rolling stock, a couple of cabooses.  The next time I went into the store, the track was all on sale.  There was no straight left.  I bought a few packs of curves because it was a great price and I figured I could work them in.  I bought a couple of motors.  Then it all went away.

I was a train fan, I was into the hobby, and it was only blind luck I stumbled into LEGO trains... not marketing, not good advertising - even after buying the sets I still didn't know what was available.  How could it possibly have succeeded?

 

[pirzyk]

40 minutes ago, Carrera124 said:

I don't think so. Surely, TLG does a lot of research. But they only believe that they know what will work and what won't. And how much, of course.

Otherwise, there would be no explanation of why they miscalculate the demand from time to time:
E.g. the "Lone Ranger" theme - this was a huge flop, demand was way less than TLG seems to have expected.

This probably has more to due with the influence Disney pushed on them and if the movie had not been a flop the the line would have sold better.  i.e. out of LEGO's control in this one

 

41 minutes ago, Carrera124 said:

E.g. the introduction of the "Friends" theme - many sets were sold out long before Christmas - demand has been much higher than TLG had expected / calculated.

Not sure this isn't a case of them being to conservative in how well it is going to be received. You can also add several of the Ideas sets to this category; Mars Rover and Research Institute come to mind.

[Carrera124]

8 minutes ago, pirzyk said:

This probably has more to due with the influence Disney pushed on them and if the movie had not been a flop the the line would have sold better.  i.e. out of LEGO's control in this one

 

Well, but nobody forced them to do the theme at all. I don't believe that Disney is able to push them, if TLG is convinced to have bad selling figures.

[fred67]

2 hours ago, pirzyk said:

... I like BMR's sets but I do 6w so that doesn't really help me.  Brickmania seems to have success with selling complete sets, it would be nice if BMR and Brickmania have a love child

 

I keep reading about BMR's "sets", but I don't see that they sell anything but instructions and decals (and wheel sets).

 

[Grrr]

4 hours ago, Digger of Bricks said:

I've said this on many other topics (even here) countless times before, but I think that track-less, Power Function-less three-in-one Creator sets are the way to go for cheaper train sets. Just simply do US $40-$60 sets with a small locomotive as the star build (tank engines or shunter diesels, for instance), then include instructions for two passenger/freight car alternate builds to encourage others to buy multiple copies of the set (if they wish).

For AFOLs also push trains have an appeal. At a certain point I have enough motors/etc to power the number of trains I have on the go; but I'll keep buying more for unique parts etc. Moreover, 99% of the time my trains do nothing, and I always leave the batteries out of all my lego so they don't leak. For a display model, I don't want to pay an extra fifty bucks for all the motor gear if I don't need to.