2018 Lego Trains

[CCSG]

41 minutes ago, technic70s said:

Plus with the trains the children always drive the train at top speed and derail the train, we have built heaver trains with lower centres of gravity and have build a geared down controller that takes the child 3 full turns to run the train at speed 7.

Interested to know how you guys "geared down" the controller, there was a recent thread started about fine control for Lego trains.

https://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?/forums/topic/158212-fine-control-for-lego-trains/

 

I am also very hopeful we'll see a new PF with Wifi or Bluetooth. I'm kind of disappointing with the IR and was planning to replace it with something more reliable. 

Patrick

[Lego Dino 500]

I'm actually pretty hopeful for this year's trains that are releasing. The builds from what I've seen are more complex and interesting than previous ones like 60051 and 60052, despite being aimed at the same target audience. I know others aren't as satisfied with it as I am, but I can definitely commend the designers for what they've done so far. I still have a few gripes, like the small amount of cars, and the length of the cars, however, that's a result of the price point and constraints of the system. 

[technic70s]

14 minutes ago, CCSG said:

Interested to know how you guys "geared down" the controller, there was a recent thread started about fine control for Lego trains.

https://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?/forums/topic/158212-fine-control-for-lego-trains/

 

I am also very hopeful we'll see a new PF with Wifi or Bluetooth. I'm kind of disappointing with the IR and was planning to replace it with something more reliable. 

Patrick

Thanks Patrick. I am getting ready for a child's workshop/play event at a shopping centre this week, when I pull out the controller we have built, I will post some pictures in the other thread. :-)

[Paperballpark]

^ It wouldn't be too difficult to build a Technic beam 'frontage' over the top of the orange speed control dials, and use gears to gear down the speed at which the dials turn. I'm guessing that's how they've done it :)

[Carrera124]

9 hours ago, Paperballpark said:

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Lego don't make the City trains for us. We are not the target demographic for them.

It is just a guess, but I think that kids also appreciate doors, because they increase playability.

And straight track sections are always useful.

[dr_spock]

6 hours ago, PeteM said:

Looks like we might need to wait a bit longer for official photos or reports for sets in the summer wave (inc the trains I assume):

https://brickset.com/article/33697/this-year-s-toy-fairs-will-be-a-disappointment

It could be the time it takes a bootlegger to get a copied product to market is much shorter now than before.  It is not hard for a competitor to put together the big picture from small tibits of information that leaked.

 

1 hour ago, CCSG said:

Interested to know how you guys "geared down" the controller, there was a recent thread started about fine control for Lego trains.

https://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?/forums/topic/158212-fine-control-for-lego-trains/

 

I am also very hopeful we'll see a new PF with Wifi or Bluetooth. I'm kind of disappointing with the IR and was planning to replace it with something more reliable. 

Patrick

I made my own bluetooth controller and driving by slider on a phone touch screen is not all that great and lacks tactile feedback.  Maybe I am an old geezer and don't get this new fangle tech but I hope they use actual physical knobs and levers.

We find PF IR works fine under our large outdoor tent on a sunny day.  I would rather implement a Positive Train Control system before I let the kids drive the trains at our outdoor picnic events.  Something to engage the "emergency brakes" if the kids are going too fast into a curve.  But kids love it when our trains goes flying off the curve of death at the bottom of the layout's downhill incline.

[Paperballpark]

The new trains require ten AAA batteries each, rather than the nine required in the current sets.

[BrickMusher]

28 minutes ago, dr_spock said:

It could be the time it takes a bootlegger to get a copied product to market is much shorter now than before

Just in theory... IF a clone brand releases a new set before TLC does, can they seek for injunction against TLC???

[M_slug357]

1 hour ago, Paperballpark said:

The new trains require ten AAA batteries each, rather than the nine required in the current sets.

where's this 10th battery going? has to be the controller, can't be the batt box?

[Paperballpark]

23 minutes ago, M_slug357 said:

where's this 10th battery going? has to be the controller, can't be the batt box?

That would be my guess too. All I know is that the sets require ten AAA batteries, not how they're distributed! :)

[MaineBrickFan]

17 minutes ago, Paperballpark said:

That would be my guess too. All I know is that the sets require ten AAA batteries, not how they're distributed! :)

This would be the strongest indicator yet of a new control/power functions system. 

[higgins91]

did one of you think of a sound brick?

like 4774c02:

https://img.bricklink.com/ItemImage/PN/1/4774c02.png

 

[Tcm0]

2 hours ago, Paperballpark said:

The new trains require ten AAA batteries each, rather than the nine required in the current sets.

Hmm. They probably stay at their current 9V-based system because motors driven with 9V seem to work good for the purpose. That means that they will stay with 6 batteries for the train base.

That leaves 4 batteries for the remote. Seems like the new remote is confirmed.

The last "upgrade" for the IR based remote was from 3 AAA batteries to 2 AAA batteries in the EV3 remote. It more or less confirms that we will get a new remote system (which consumes about double the enegry of IR).

[3797]

11 hours ago, Paperballpark said:

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Lego don't make the City trains for us. We are not the target demographic for them.

I'm sure the trains will sell just fine to the target demographic - Lego aren't stupid. Arguably, it's those who think Lego won't have done their research that are stupid.

As for the track packs, again they're not stupid. If you want 80 straights, you'll have to buy 10 packs. If they sold them with 16 straights in a pack, you'd only have to buy 5 packs. That might be better for you, but Lego would only sell half the number of packs. Again, they're not stupid.

We are aware. No one expected those new City sets to be on the same level as the Creator trains. The Cargo one actually does offer play value, but not including doors is a missed opportunity that doesn't make sense. They used them in 2017's 60154 so why not in those new sets as well? The passenger train on the other hand isn't any better than the previous ones. It would have been so easy. They could have re-used designs from sets 7740, 7745, 4558 and even 10194. Four doors, ten windows, a roof and some wheels. That would offer more play value than the leaked set 60197 and wouldn't have taken them much time to design. New colours. New roof. Done.

As for the rails: That may have worked in the past. Nowadays people tend to look for deals on eBay or (worse) Amazon where they will find the cheaper Chinese options. That's a problem that TLG needs to address. Forcing your customers to buy a much more expensive pack with stuff they may not want doesn't seem to be an ideal solution to me. A better solution would be to just sell track pieces through PAB again. They did it in the past and could do it again. Doesn't waste shelf space and people could get exactly what they want. Should also be more cost efficient for both parties. In fact, it would be a great way for promoting their online shop.

11 hours ago, Rufulus said:

Soon those copy cats will not only copy anymore. Its already starting.

I too noticed that. So far I'm only observing and I don't really want any of that stuff in my own collection but it definitely is interesting to see. However, I really wish TLG would produce their stuff in Europe and the US only.

10 hours ago, JopieK said:

You can voice your opinion but shouting that certain people should be fired? Come on, what if we would shout that about your job for some reason?

Go ahead. I actually listen to our customers and do my best to improve the products that we're selling. Ealier this week, I got a written letter that states how much of a good job I've been doing for the past seven years. TLG almost went bankrupt back in 2004 because they didn't listen to us. We are the ones who promote their stuff. Most of us are adults who are buying LEGO as gifts not just for ourselves but also for our own or our friend's kids. Many of us are also the ones who said that 60051 didn't sell as well as it could have and we told them how they could try to fix the issues with that set. They're not listening. It's frustrating and yes, maybe it would be for the best if they would rethink their stategy and get someone else to design their trains. They did not just miss opportunities by not including doors and windows, they most likely also failed to integrate the new trains into the City line properly. Again. 60052 was a great set, btw.

I'll address your rude warning as well as you abusing your mod powers elsewhere.

3 hours ago, Lego Dino 500 said:

The builds from what I've seen are more complex and interesting than previous ones like 60051 and 60052, ... 

How so? The passenger train offers nothing that 60051 didn't have and 60052 actually was a much better set. 60052's engine had actual doors (more play value) and the crane it came with was better than the little tower that seems to come with 60198. Also 60052's car made a lot more sense than 60198's getaway van.

2 hours ago, Carrera124 said:

It is just a guess, but I think that kids also appreciate doors, because they increase playability.

And straight track sections are always useful.

This. My first LEGO train was the Metroliner 4558 that I got for christmas in 1991. I loved seeing the minifigs through the windows as well as opening and closing the doors. Also, one day my dad came home from a business trip* and brought me a pack of straight 9V track, a pack of curved 9V track, a set of switches, a blue hopper and the 9V level crossing. I paid for some of it with my pocket money but even though he ended up just giving me the tracks as a gift I remember thinking that two packs of straight track would have been better.

*I asked him to get me something for my Metroliner because most shops in East Germany did not yet carry LEGO this soon after the wall came down.

[Paperballpark]

54 minutes ago, higgins91 said:

did one of you think of a sound brick?

like 4774c02:

https://img.bricklink.com/ItemImage/PN/1/4774c02.png

A sound brick would not use a AAA battery.

There is a sound brick (or a light brick) in the new Hospital set, but not in either of the train sets.

[M_slug357]

18 hours ago, Paperballpark said:

There is a sound brick (or a light brick) in the new Hospital set, but not in either of the train sets.

New hospital set???

[sebitsena]

Yes, set 60204. But i did not see anything about a sound or light brick mentioned on the box?!

Nothing on the box but requires 2 LR41 batteries. So yes, light brick inside ;)

Edited January 21, 2018 by sebitsena

[zephyr1934]

On 1/20/2018 at 3:02 AM, Paperballpark said:

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Lego don't make the City trains for us. We are not the target demographic for them.

I'm sure the trains will sell just fine to the target demographic - Lego aren't stupid. Arguably, it's those who think Lego won't have done their research that are stupid.

First off, anyone who is looking for a realistic train is not going to find it in the City Train sets, that has ALWAYS been the case. Some AFOLs are perfectly happy with the stock city trains, some are not. Neither view is wrong.

While all of the "realistic" trains from the AT&SF loco to the HE were great, even these are a far cry from what can be done. I would argue that we as the AFOL lego train community need a nice gateway set to help others join the hobby, but that is more of a problem for us rather than for the Lego Group (TLG). For the short term the solution to the lack of a gateway set is either custom sets like those from BMR, or MODs of the stock sets (I would love to see more in this domain), or instructions from a host of locations (e.g., SRW Locomotive Works).

That is not to say that Lego does not care about the AFOL lego train community. They are doing a pretty good job making sure the critical train parts are available in sets and they know that we know how to get this stuff from Bricklink, Lego customer service, or lugbulk. The fact that the train doors are appearing in new sets (with the old window glass no less) tells me that they are going out of their way to provide us with the parts we need. They are slowly sneaking out parts to serve us, like the steam loco pilot. I just wish they would produce the bogie plate and 6x28 train base in black again.

That is not to say that Lego hasn't made some dumb moves in the past, e.g., releasing the hobby train while simultaneously putting ALL of the unique parts up in the on-line PAB. So much for the set being a parts pack. Part of what drove sales of the EN and Maersk locomotive were the rare colors being parted out on BL. The fact that HE had few rare color parts is likely part of the reason why it was not a big seller.

 

 

On 1/20/2018 at 6:52 AM, ColletArrow said:

I saw a theory somewhere that's essentially: the train sets will be out for~ 4 years, wheras technic is only ~1-2. Therefore, if sometime around, say, 2020 they wanted to switch entirely to PF 2.0, but the train sets on the market were still using PF 1.0, it would be harder and less consistent. They can also use the trains as a test-bed I suppose, due to a simpler requirement of functions. Even if this does mean we've only had 6 train sets (in two waves) with PF 1.0 in them.

The RC trains were out for a single cycle, you are probably right that they are using the trains as a testbed.

 

On 1/20/2018 at 10:01 AM, technic70s said:

What I have noticed about the new city train, is it has the same design on its roof as the High Speed Train 60051 in it has a 1x2 cheese slope next to the RI receiver.

The design looks exactly the same.

So my thinking is the receiver is exactly the same old receiver - IR.

My only glimmer of hope is a new receiver that is Bluetooth or WIFI and is build in exactly the same form factor, to make it interchangeable with old sets.

But my hopes for this are running low.

High Speed Train by Stephen, on Flickr

Good catch about the IR receiver, you might be right about that, but that could also just be the preliminary artwork, before they have the final form factor figured out for the receiver. I sure hope they don't do WIFI-only receivers (that would make shows difficult to do), if they are introducing Bluetooth or WIFI, I would guess that they shorten the tower on the back and produce something that looks more like an S-Brick.

 

[M_slug357]

1 hour ago, zephyr1934 said:

....The RC trains were out for a single cycle, you are probably right that they are using the trains as a testbed....

Man, those controllers where HUGE compared to the PF ones we enjoy today! Also, I still haven't figured out a good way to use those all-in-one train bases that came in those sets...

 

 

 

I still think it's interesting how trains went from battery operated to electrified rail, and then back to battery operated....... does this mean that in another decade or so we'll be back on some form of electrified rail..?

[Chilis]

On 20.1.2018 at 10:09 PM, 3797 said:

Many of us are also the ones who said that 60051 didn't sell as well as it could have and we told them how they could try to fix the issues with that set.

 

What did I miss? What issues?

[dr_spock]

18 hours ago, M_slug357 said:

Man, those controllers where HUGE compared to the PF ones we enjoy today! Also, I still haven't figured out a good way to use those all-in-one train bases that came in those sets...

 

 

 

I still think it's interesting how trains went from battery operated to electrified rail, and then back to battery operated....... does this mean that in another decade or so we'll be back on some form of electrified rail..?

I think big makes it harder to lose sight off.  How many times I put down the smaller IR speed control on our LUG train layout and couldn't find it again.  They should make them in bright Friends colours. 

 

[M_slug357]

1 hour ago, dr_spock said:

They should make them in bright Friends colours. 

 

At the very least reverse their color scheme so that the main part is bright orange and the nobs are light bley...!

Also, maybe a wrist-lanyard to keep people from losing them so frequently...?

[robomeister]

Hello all,

First time posting.  Here is one of the items off of my wish list for LEGO trains.

What I'd like to see would fit in with a Disney World theme or at least go with the Cinderella Castle we got last year.  I'd like to see an Creator Expert set that could be a 4 in 1 set for all four of the Walt Disney World Railroad steam engines.  If you look at the wiki page for the railroad (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walt_Disney_World_Railroad), there are 4 different steam engines.  There is a 4-6-0 with red boiler, and red cab and red tender, a 2-6-0 with green boiler, green cab, and green tender; a 4-6-0 with green boiler, red cab and red tender; and a 4-4-0 with red boiler, green cab and green tender.  It could be like the old Hobby Train set that had a bunch of different models.  Each of the trains has 5 passenger cars in different colors (red, green, yellow and blue).

It would never happen, but it would be great if it did.

Thanks,

robomeister

[fred67]

13 minutes ago, robomeister said:

Hello all,

First time posting.  Here is one of the items off of my wish list for LEGO trains.

What I'd like to see would fit in with a Disney World theme or at least go with the Cinderella Castle we got last year.  I'd like to see an Creator Expert set that could be a 4 in 1 set for all four of the Walt Disney World Railroad steam engines.  If you look at the wiki page for the railroad (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walt_Disney_World_Railroad), there are 4 different steam engines.  There is a 4-6-0 with red boiler, and red cab and red tender, a 2-6-0 with green boiler, green cab, and green tender; a 4-6-0 with green boiler, red cab and red tender; and a 4-4-0 with red boiler, green cab and green tender.  It could be like the old Hobby Train set that had a bunch of different models.  Each of the trains has 5 passenger cars in different colors (red, green, yellow and blue).

It would never happen, but it would be great if it did.

Thanks,

robomeister

Two of them are nearly completely red, two are nearly completely green, so a 4-in-1 wouldn't work, but two 2-in-1s would 

22 hours ago, zephyr1934 said:

...I would argue that we as the AFOL lego train community need a nice gateway set to help others join the hobby, but that is more of a problem for us rather than for the Lego Group (TLG). For the short term the solution to the lack of a gateway set is either custom sets like those from BMR, or MODs of the stock sets (I would love to see more in this domain), or instructions from a host of locations (e.g., SRW Locomotive Works).

...

I've said this, too, but not a single engine or an expert creator sets - you need a complete set similar to what the model railroad companies sell as starter sets.

You could argue that the usual cargo and passenger trains are that, but I don't think it's enough to sway model railroad fans away from traditional model railroading.  It's not that they don't have their place, they're just not as "serious" as sets like a good, let's say Kato, starter set that would come with at least four cars in addition to the engine.  A "serious" starter set from quality manufacturer will be at least $250 - TLG could sell a starter set for that much and include four or more cars.

Not going to happen?  No, it's probably not.  LEGO isn't supposed to be "serious."  I will tell you I got into LEGO sets coming from a budding N-gauge hobby.  After dumping all my N-gauge stuff for pennies on the dollar, TLG discontinued 9V.    I was more interested in building, experimenting, and playing with my son (who, at the time, only wanted to go fast enough for my expensive N-gauge trains to fly off the track).  I think a lot of parents (let's face it, mostly dads) who would like their kids to get into the train hobby might like the idea of using LEGO as opposed to something like N or HO.  If they do any research into it, they see they can't just add rolling stock to the abysmal amount offered in full "sets."  Nor are they inclined to spend hundreds of dollars on a set of instructions and all the little bits and pieces they'd need to build any (like BMR or SRW).  Those instructions are great, the models are awesome, but pricing out all the pieces for someone who doesn't already have a large collection gets very expensive.

So we're at kind of an impasse with TLG.  Like dogs sitting around the table waiting for scraps.  I've invested heavily over the years in 9V and PF, and have a lot of stuff to play with at the moment, but trying to get newbies into the hobby is not really plausible.

[M_slug357]

1 hour ago, fred67 said:

...Like dogs sitting around the table waiting for scraps...

Thats rufff man, really rufff.

I'll admit that I'm also not a fan of waiting around, especially if the cycle's gunna be every 3-5 years for something new to come our way.....!

 

 

What IS the best way to attract new members to our flock?