ElectroDiva

2018 Lego Trains

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Thanks @JEB314 (James) for all of this info, not to mention being as detailed as possible/allowable.

 

To help determine the potential size of the freight cars, can you tell us how long they appear to be,-- like 16, 24, 28 studs long, or longer?

And, maybe how many axles does each freight car have?

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5 hours ago, JEB314 (James) said:

Yes, 60197 has one locomotive, exactly like the Reddit picture, and behind that is 2 carriages.

It has 3 minifigures, a driver (gender not clear, but likely male due to the driver in the top right being male), one male and one female passenger. The male has a satchel and the female has a lime green suitcase (could be a new mold).

It also has a small station platform and a modern looking signal.

The track looks the same as 60051, i.e. 16 curves and probably 2, but possibly 4 straights.

I just hope the price is about the same as 60051...

Thank you @JEB314 (James) for your information.   

I have a few questions, if you're still answering them:

1)  for 60197, can you describe the carriages?   How long, color scheme, what train base, and do both appear identical?

2) for 60198, how does the crane car compare to the one from 7898 (2006) Cargo Train Deluxe in style or design?   That was the last time TLG offered a crane car.    

3) for 60198, are the log car and container car both using the same train base?   Or, is the log car a shorter, single axle at either end design?   What color are the cars themselves?

I am a little concerned about the rumored price on 60198, appearing to jump ~$50 from the 60052 price of $199.   From the description, there doesn't appear to be more volume of product, comparatively.   60052 had an engine, three train cars, forklift, cargo truck, AND a complete freight depot with overhead gantry crane.   60198's engine and train car consist compare favorably, as do the bank van and forklift.  But instead of a depot there's a signal tower and grade-level crossing?    Where's the extra value?    60052 had 20 curves, 8 straights, and one each Left and Right switch points.   60198 has 16-ish curves, 8-ish straights, and ONE switch point, but includes a buffer stop.   See where I'm going here?   Seems like TLG is asking for more money in return for less product.    I'm assuming the new, replacement "power functions +" is a wash, since 60052 had power functions, too.  

Is there anything else you can glean from your photos that might represent more value?

Thank you again for your insight and advance knowledge.  

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@M_slug357 No problem!

Lengths:

60197:

Locomotive: 31 studs, as new mold piece is 7 studs and the train base is 24. (Look at Reddit picture, same length.)

Carriages 1+2: 24 studs, standard train base. (Look is the same, or at least very similar.)

Small Platform: 10 studs, or 12 including step.

Signal: Height of 13 studs, as a 1x12 long plate attached to a plate in much the same way as a street light is.

60198:

Locomotive: 32 studs, as 28 stud train base with a white 'train wagon end' part no. 6583 positioned 90° from normal in a SNOT building technique at each end.

Wood car: 16 studs. 4 wheels.

Container car: 20 studs, as each container is 10 studs in length. 4 wheels.

Crane car: 24 studs, standard train base. May be marginally wider than 6 studs wide as it has expandable crane supports under the train base. 8 wheels.

Bank van: 18 studs. 4 wheels.

Forklift truck: 8 studs (not including forks). With forks, 12 studs. 4 wheels.

Signal Tower: Length = 8 studs, Width = 6 studs, Height = 21/22 bricks (in plates thats 63 to 66 ish). Might be slightly off...

Buffer: 6 studs in length, 6 studs in width.

(Some of these were quite hard to work out, might be off by a stud somewhere...)

 

--- Separate point. ---

 

I have been doing further research, and from closer inspection of preliminary box art, I can now confirm 60198 only has one left hand point in it and NO right hand point.

Also, 60198 contains exactly 16 curves.

Straights are still numerically unknown as to whether there is 8 or 10. (This is because it is impossible to tell the lengths clearly. I am going to say 8 is more likely.)

(This info comes from a very small track map located on the top of the box at right hand end next to the 1:1 minifigure picture, it only became properly apparent when I was messing around with sliders on a photo editing software to understand smaller details.)

Related to track, I don't know if this has been really been explored much, but set 60205 is a track pack: straights and curves. I've had a good look into this and place this as an RC train track pack, not as some have had it: a possible rollercoaster track pack. I am not saying this is fact, but due to the possible retirement of flex track (a calculated guess), I believe it makes logical sense that set 7499 is retired and a replaced by something similar to set 7896. Meanwhile, they keep on set 7895 for another cycle, because if it ain't broke, don't fix it!

What do other people think set 60205 is? Train or coaster track? I'd be interested to know.

Edited by JEB314 (James)
Missed a word and the posts combined.

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1 hour ago, icemorons said:

I have a few questions, if you're still answering them:

1)  for 60197, can you describe the carriages?   How long, color scheme, what train base, and do both appear identical?

2) for 60198, how does the crane car compare to the one from 7898 (2006) Cargo Train Deluxe in style or design?   That was the last time TLG offered a crane car.    

3) for 60198, are the log car and container car both using the same train base?   Or, is the log car a shorter, single axle at either end design?   What color are the cars themselves?

Is there anything else you can glean from your photos that might represent more value?

1. 60197.

(a) 24 studs.

(b) From top of carriage to bottom: Dark Blue tiles, Yellow roof pieces, Dark Blue tiles, Light Bluish Gray brick layer, 2x2 dark panel windows (like 60051), Light Bluish Gray plate layer, White plate layer, Light Bluish Gray brick layer, Dark Bluish Gray train base, black wheels and housings (as usual).

(c) At least very similar.

2. 60198.

(a) Much better, more user friendly. Looks more realistic too.

3. Also, 60198.

(a) Different, log car: 16 studs, container car: 20 studs. Both 4 wheel.

(b) Both are majority Black with a little Light Bluish Gray.

4. Value/Cost.

Power functions update is my best guess, although they do seem to have taken more care with these trains so I expect they had a larger team involved.

Overall, they seem on the expensive side, but if they drop in price a little (say 10-15%) at some shops then I will probably pick up 2 of 60197. I'll wait until 60198 is nearer 20% off probably on Black Friday this year to pick that one up!

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10 hours ago, JEB314 (James) said:

1. Is the controller new?

Yes, the controller does look to be new. It still classed as Power Functions (but with an extra illegible word after it). It is Light Bluish Grey, square in shape, and has 2 knobs on it, in between the knobs there looks to be a channel switch...

2. Is it Bluetooth or something else?

It is not immediately clear, but above the controller there is something very similar to a wifi symbol, (like you have in the top right hand corner of a smartphone).

Therefore, I have a feeling that the IR receiver must have changed to be compatable with this new controller.

3. Backwards compatible? 

This is not at all clear. Other than the fact the side-skirts (Part No. 2871b) look that same.

I believe as a consequence the motor is the same, but the connection on the end of wire could be entirely different, I just can't tell, I would imagine that aspect would be the same though.

4. About the Reddit pictures.

I have done side by side comparisons between both respective trains.

60197: The locomotives look virtually identical.

But.

60198: They have identical majority green (not teal) colour schemes. The full colour scheme goes: dark bluish gray roof, green for the main body, a single plate layer of yellow plates and then a white train base.

As for the shape, it looks like the French loco and a Class 37 had a baby. The most important change is about Part No. 13760, see my first attached picture. It is the other way up and further set back than in the Reddit photos taken from Damian Wicher's video. Therefore, I strongly believe the video was from the development stage.

60198 also has 2 lights on the front (1x1 clear round tiles), because it has a cab at each end, I would say that is the same on both ends.

The ends themselves look different from the Reddit pictures, more like a Class 37, it does have Part No. 6583, see my second attached picture, at the bottom of each end.

The middle of the locomotive does look very similar to the Reddit photos as does the roof design.

Overall, both look very good and personally I believe a step in the right direction.

Right, onto the next question.

I will split this into a new reply.

 

 

Thank you so much!

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Excellent work, thank you @JEB314 (James)! If the set only comes with 16 curves, the siding must be out at an angle to the loop. Odd. At least we get an official buffer stop.

10 hours ago, bobbybats said:

Got any pics of that?

Sure, but they're not entirely relevant know we know 60198 isn't like the reddit pictures. I might post them in a new topic.

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Somebody just posted the leaked set images on reddit (2018 TRAINS (New power functions?))

https://www.reddit.com/r/LEGOtrains/

While the passenger train is very similar to the leaked one we have seen before, the cargo train is slightly different.

Edited by rmsc

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Holy Moly! Those descriptions were spot on! I'll definitely be picking up both of these. I hope the new PF components are backwards compatible with the PF train motor.

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2 minutes ago, creator_hun said:

Green Cargo is a bit strange to me

Yep. I can already see where I'm going to modify it and give it more of a class 37 or 50 look.

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Some spot-on descriptions by the look of it. 60197 is definitely trying to be a Eurostar. I love the details in the background, especially the octan logo! The 60198 engine doesn't look as nice as the prelim did to my eyes, but it's not awful. The crane looks pretty good though; it's clearly pretty similar in colour, size and potentially functionality to the one in 60169 Cargo Terminal. The containers are also identical, meaning these sets at least will work well together.

The Power Functions logo is in the corner, and the controller is certainly new and as yet uncoloured. It's smaller but boxier; that makes it easier to build around, but it looks less comfortable to hold. We'll have to wait to see how the rest of the system has changed.

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35 minutes ago, ColletArrow said:

The Power Functions logo is in the corner, and the controller is certainly new and as yet uncoloured. It's smaller but boxier; that makes it easier to build around, but it looks less comfortable to hold. We'll have to wait to see how the rest of the system has changed.

It does have 'placeholder' stamped across it. To be honest, to me it looks like something you'd put flat on the floor (or table) and use to control them, rather than holding it.

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I Think I Will convert the Green Loco to the preliminary one. Almost all the neccessary parts are included or easily accessibe. It might be less rigid As the official one, but for me more attractive.

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27 minutes ago, creator_hun said:

I Think I Will convert the Green Loco to the preliminary one. Almost all the neccessary parts are included or easily accessibe. It might be less rigid As the official one, but for me more attractive.

:thumbup: This.

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I rather prefer the look of the presumed-final 60198 engine.   Pull off those pantographs and do a little roof rework and it might make a serviceable class 55 Deltic!   60197 looks great.  I'll eventually have two of those!    However, with a four year life cycle, my priority will be to get additional copies of the current ones, before taking the plunge on the new ones.  

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The corrugated container side pieces (23405) are newly recoloered as red.   Previously they have been olive green, blue, black, or shades of lavender (according to bricklink).    I'm glad to see consistency in container style with 60169.  We can use its truck and trailer for road transport of the 60198 containers.   

I built a MOC a few months ago of a train car which could handle all four of 60169's containers at once.   I'll post a pic of it later.   

So far, 60198 is looking like a solid set.  Not quite as good as 60052, IMHO, but still lots of quality play to be had.   

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2 hours ago, rmsc said:

Somebody just posted the leaked set images on reddit (2018 TRAINS (New power functions?))

https://www.reddit.com/r/LEGOtrains/

While the passenger train is very similar to the leaked one we have seen before, the cargo train is slightly different.

Thanks for posting a link to satisfy the curiosity of the rest of us. :thumbup:

Think I'm going to have to get a few of the log wagons when they come available individually on the secondary market.

1 hour ago, ColletArrow said:

Some spot-on descriptions by the look of it. 60197 is definitely trying to be a Eurostar. I love the details in the background, especially the octan logo! The 60198 engine doesn't look as nice as the prelim did to my eyes, but it's not awful. The crane looks pretty good though; it's clearly pretty similar in colour, size and potentially functionality to the one in 60169 Cargo Terminal. The containers are also identical, meaning these sets at least will work well together.

The Power Functions logo is in the corner, and the controller is certainly new and as yet uncoloured. It's smaller but boxier; that makes it easier to build around, but it looks less comfortable to hold. We'll have to wait to see how the rest of the system has changed.

I was wondering if it would be compatible with 60169 Cargo Terminal. Looks like I'm going to have to get this after all. :sick:

 

Overall quite impressed with these prelim images of both sets. I like the way the passenger train is done ie 1 engine & 2 carriages, same as Horizon Express, but I can see why others don't due to having to go to the expense of buying 2 sets to get a second engine. 

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Why did they flip the window on the cargo train? That DUPLO front end on the passanger train .. sigh (it's 7897 reborn). A truck instead of another flatbed/boxcar? and why can't we have DOORS. At least they're still being used/made for other themes (City/Jurrasic)

Those boxes give the impression that a LOT of tracks are included!

Not convinced PF is new or have been BT'ed .. yet. The "Wifi" logo reminds of the old 9V sound logo ..

Edited by 1974

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I was so thrilled about both sets, esp the cargo train when they said (and the first prelims showed) a french inspired BB15000 series... Seeing they made some shady 'deltic' inspired model made it loose all of it's apeal.

And the passanger trains just looks childish... Guess I'll be picking up two 60051 sets and convert them into the german ICE.

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14 hours ago, JEB314 (James) said:

As for the shape, it looks like the French loco and a Class 37 had a baby.  

Quite a good description looking at the latest pic.

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Unlike what had been described earlier, the cargo locomotive is definitely not Dark Turquoise. But, does the yellow on the Passenger Train look like to anyone to be "Flame Yellowish Orange", instead of typical Bright Yellow?

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Looks like regular yellow to me (the photo is quite dark). I copied the minifig head over, looks like just the same color.

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