[WIP] UCS V-19 Torrent

[Ellisss_2]

Hello, all.

My Venator is complete, just waiting on the instructions so I decided to begin a new project continuing with the Clone Wars era. This time it is a V-19 Torrent scaled to (10215 UCS Obi Wan's Delta 7) it uses the same cockpit piece and interior. This is an early model and there are still a few things I'm unhappy with mainly: needs some more studs(too much snot) and rounder engines. I took some inspiration from this model: http://www.moc-pages.com/moc.php/355593. Has just over 1000 pieces. Some bricks on the side cannons disappeared in the render.

Thanks for viewing, Ellis.

Edited November 7, 2017 by Ellisss_2

[Hold0511]

Looks good - I'm happy with the level of studs you have tbh - this would look cracking with a decent stand on the other side of my B-Wing...

[brickmasterben11]

Very promising! Can the bottom fin move to the top?

 

[jdubbs]

I am not that fond of most Clone Wars ship designs, but I became a fan of the V-19 a few weeks ago while flipping through Brickset looking for sets I might have missed... I watched Jang's review of the 2009 set a few times and decided I needed to have it. A few days later I found it new on eBay for close to list price, and just finished building it yesterday. It's an underrated design that probably should have made it into the films... and seems to be a precursor to the Resistance Bomber in TLJ. The 2009 set is nice but obviously dated at this point, so I look forward to seeing how your MOC progresses. Good luck with the folding wings... that mechanism in the 2009 set is possibly the most complicated build I've encountered yet in a Star Wars set. 

[Kristof]

I think its important fot the engine cylinders to be actually round. This angular blockiness envokes lego mocs from 1990s :) There are some shape inaccuracies which may depend on your sourse material though. I suggest this model toy: http://www.rebelscum.com/TCWvehV19Torrent.asp

[Ellisss_2]

10 hours ago, Hold0511 said:

Looks good - I'm happy with the level of studs you have tbh - this would look cracking with a decent stand on the other side of my B-Wing...

Ok, thank you very much!

4 hours ago, brickmasterben11 said:

Very promising! Can the bottom fin move to the top?

 

Thanks! The top fin can move, it is synchronized with the other two like in the official Lego model.

4 hours ago, jdubbs said:

I am not that fond of most Clone Wars ship designs, but I became a fan of the V-19 a few weeks ago while flipping through Brickset looking for sets I might have missed... I watched Jang's review of the 2009 set a few times and decided I needed to have it. A few days later I found it new on eBay for close to list price, and just finished building it yesterday. It's an underrated design that probably should have made it into the films... and seems to be a precursor to the Resistance Bomber in TLJ. The 2009 set is nice but obviously dated at this point, so I look forward to seeing how your MOC progresses. Good luck with the folding wings... that mechanism in the 2009 set is possibly the most complicated build I've encountered yet in a Star Wars set. 

I love the CW era vehicles! It does implement a mechanism for the wings, not sure if it will work will need to get a technic fanatic to look at it! I will post some pictures of the internals.

2 hours ago, krisandkris12 said:

I think its important fot the engine cylinders to be actually round. This angular blockiness envokes lego mocs from 1990s :) There are some shape inaccuracies which may depend on your sourse material though. I suggest this model toy: http://www.rebelscum.com/TCWvehV19Torrent.asp

It will be difficult for me to get the whole of the engines round as they have gears inside for the functioning wings, I’ll see what I can do. I will compare it to the toy later. 

Kind regards, Ellis. 

[Ellisss_2]

@krisandkris12 This is why the engines are a square shape, I will try to fit the mechanism in with rounder solutions. Not sure if you know of any rounder pieces that could fit around these wheels?

Also, found a picture of myself with the official Lego V-19 torrent from 9 years ago. 

Kind regards, Ellis.

[Anio]

So many 8t in line ? T_T

When was the last time you built a Technic set ? Oo

[Ellisss_2]

Just now, Anio said:

So many 8t in line ? T_T

When was the last time you built a Technic set ? Oo

Technic offroader in 2008 been deprived of bricks since recently with my Venator, definitely need some help with technic. 

[Kristof]

I'm not sure about pieces that fit around these gears, what I know for certain is that your geartrains is the first thing you need to completely scrap and redo. Forget the small bevel gears in high torque application like this. 8t gears are also something you would rather avoid as pointed by Anio :D

I think you really need to do your research before you spend any more time designing technical guts that have no chance of working IRL. Check out UCS imperial Shuttle or any other similar large winged MOC to see how other guys make this happen. It will most certainly always involve either big technic gears as a pivot sprockets or ratchet joints for non-geared tilt mechanisms.

[Ellisss_2]

1 hour ago, krisandkris12 said:

I'm not sure about pieces that fit around these gears, what I know for certain is that your geartrains is the first thing you need to completely scrap and redo. Forget the small bevel gears in high torque application like this. 8t gears are also something you would rather avoid as pointed by Anio :D

I think you really need to do your research before you spend any more time designing technical guts that have no chance of working IRL. Check out UCS imperial Shuttle or any other similar large winged MOC to see how other guys make this happen. It will most certainly always involve either big technic gears as a pivot sprockets or ratchet joints for non-geared tilt mechanisms.

Awesome, thanks! I’ve never really understood technic, I’ll take a look at the Imperial shuttle and do my research elsewhere. I will have to be innovative as there is very little space.

Kind regards, Ellis.

[Ellisss_2]

@krisandkris12 Do the engines look any better slightly rounder like this? Also where are the other inaccuracies, I'm thinking the wings?

Kind regards, Ellis.

Edited November 2, 2017 by Ellisss_2

[Kristof]

i gues its the matter of opinion but to me it looks worse :D From an geometry stand point, you are further away from the circular cross section than before.I think the only better option than your original would be using trully round elements.

Regarding other inaccuracies - did you check that plastic model I referenced? There is number of rather minor things that I would hate to list down, I am sure you can find yourself what could be improved. Also it't mostly not inaccuracies that would bug me in any way... just depends on how true you want to stay to the actual thing. As it is, sure enough, it represents v19 quite well already.

To throw you couple things - middle fin (wing) seem more angular than what you have.

Side wings should start rectangular and only then taper down, you carry the taper all the way up.

The actuall body around the cockpit is not flat sideways as you have it. The two white poking forky things are more prominent than on your model and carry down beneath the body. The bottom of the hull is actually structuraly different from what you have.

The cockpit isn't terribly accurate either but then again, I am not sure about better options.

 - All minor things though. Plus it's hard to tell since you still show the model from a single angle. Just go through the various refference pics by yourself, match the view angle with your models and decide whether thats close enough for you :D

[Ellisss_2]

22 hours ago, krisandkris12 said:

i gues its the matter of opinion but to me it looks worse :D From an geometry stand point, you are further away from the circular cross section than before.I think the only better option than your original would be using trully round elements.

Regarding other inaccuracies - did you check that plastic model I referenced? There is number of rather minor things that I would hate to list down, I am sure you can find yourself what could be improved. Also it't mostly not inaccuracies that would bug me in any way... just depends on how true you want to stay to the actual thing. As it is, sure enough, it represents v19 quite well already.

To throw you couple things - middle fin (wing) seem more angular than what you have.

Side wings should start rectangular and only then taper down, you carry the taper all the way up.

The actuall body around the cockpit is not flat sideways as you have it. The two white poking forky things are more prominent than on your model and carry down beneath the body. The bottom of the hull is actually structuraly different from what you have.

The cockpit isn't terribly accurate either but then again, I am not sure about better options.

 - All minor things though. Plus it's hard to tell since you still show the model from a single angle. Just go through the various refference pics by yourself, match the view angle with your models and decide whether thats close enough for you :D

Awesome, thanks to work I go! I don't know what I'd do without you, I need to use reference images more, I build from memory most of the time!

Kind regards, Ellis.

[Kristof]

1 hour ago, Ellisss_2 said:

... I build from memory most of the time!

Thats great skill to have. Only when it comes to the pursuit of maximum accuracy w.r.t. given reference, you need bound yourself to being more analytic and exact.

By the way it does not alway applys that the closest shape to the actual outline is the best. great models from great builders - often within SW related stuff - have proven that very often there is a certain solution which, while being less accurate in terms of being 100% true to either geometrical shape, color scheme or detail, do actually look better on the lego model. And that's one thing that is hard to generalize or find a formula for. You just need to try building and be confident in whether you like what you have or not :)

[Ellisss_2]

@krisandkris12 I have started on the inaccuracies: the area around the cockpit is no longer flat and the engines are now circular, but I still think they could be better. I will try to get some more renders done from different angles.

@Anio Does this technic solution seem any superior to the last one?

Kind regards, Ellis.

Edited November 6, 2017 by Ellisss_2

[Anio]

It is certainely better.

Replace 12 simple bevel by 12 double bevel. They are stronger when they have to deal with high torque.

[Kristof]

I'd call it a good progress :) I know this is far from being built IRL so maybe too much nitpicking about technicalities is preliminary, but some things need to be right to begin with, otherwise you will run into countless re-derigning issues later. These brick built wings are heavy and long. That means there is a lot of torque needed in the join to lift them up. That implies two necessities you need to cover in order to have a functional design. 1 - sheer and torque strength of your constructions (every moving element, every extra gear usually introduces a weak point) and a gear reduction, that will allow you to operate the wings by applying more revolutions at lower torque. That means you either need to stack different sized wheels or use mechanisms like worm gear transmission which will give you required mechanical advantage.

I suggest you to get in touch with EB member Renegade Clone who recently made his cargo shuttle MOC. He has even more heavy duty wings so he will sure be able to give you some tips.

[Anio]

Note that with current design, engines will go off because of torque as they are only attached by pins.
You must use some transversal structure (have a look to 10212).

[Ellisss_2]

10 hours ago, krisandkris12 said:

I'd call it a good progress :) I know this is far from being built IRL so maybe too much nitpicking about technicalities is preliminary, but some things need to be right to begin with, otherwise you will run into countless re-derigning issues later. These brick built wings are heavy and long. That means there is a lot of torque needed in the join to lift them up. That implies two necessities you need to cover in order to have a functional design. 1 - sheer and torque strength of your constructions (every moving element, every extra gear usually introduces a weak point) and a gear reduction, that will allow you to operate the wings by applying more revolutions at lower torque. That means you either need to stack different sized wheels or use mechanisms like worm gear transmission which will give you required mechanical advantage.

I suggest you to get in touch with EB member Renegade Clone who recently made his cargo shuttle MOC. He has even more heavy duty wings so he will sure be able to give you some tips.

6

Thanks again for your help, I am well aware of the torque issues now, I will ensure to contact Renegade Clone. 

8 hours ago, Anio said:

Note that with current design, engines will go off because of torque as they are only attached by pins.
You must use some transversal structure (have a look to 10212).

I am definitely going to try and use 10212's internals now, I reckon it will be a challenge to fit into the ships thin shape!

Kind regards, Ellis.

[Ellisss_2]

@krisandkris12 @Anio Does this seem like a better solution, it uses different size gears and worm gear transmissions?

Kind regards, Ellis.

[Anio]

Not at all.

16/t/16t at a 90° angle wont work. You have to use bevel gears.

You also have to avoid 8t. Too much torque here for 8t. Worm gear is a nice idea, but with 24t.

24t/16 implies an half stud offset which make the construction less strong.

You have to look to 7191 and 10240 (and as many Technic set as you can) to get some Technic knowledge.

[Ellisss_2]

36 minutes ago, Anio said:

Not at all.

16/t/16t at a 90° angle wont work. You have to use bevel gears.

You also have to avoid 8t. Too much torque here for 8t. Worm gear is a nice idea, but with 24t.

24t/16 implies an half stud offset which make the construction less strong.

You have to look to 7191 and 10240 (and as many Technic set as you can) to get some Technic knowledge.

Hmm, thanks again, I might postpone this project I’m really struggling with the technic especially to fit it into such small space.

[Kristof]

Not that I would ever consider playing with lego a waste of time, but in this case I think you are not moving forward by fleshing out these random technic grartrains in LDD with next to none insight in whether and how it might actually work. This is not a mean insult, I am just stating the fact with no fancy polite wraparound :) There are two inevitable steps to do before you can successfully design any more serious technic contraption - first go through and study technic sets, learn how different things are achieved. Second get the bricks and actually build the contraptions IN REAL to see how they work. With technic even more than with lego system bricks the experience of real building is super important. I don't think you can just design something worthwile in LDD without any previous technic building experience.

In this case if you want to proceed designing this starfighter, I suggest you to use either ratchet joints to make these wings movable or to use some sort of two-position fixture latches so it can be held either up or down. You can always come back and introduce some fancier mechanism when you actually gain some experience.

[Ellisss_2]

14 minutes ago, krisandkris12 said:

Not that I would ever consider playing with lego a waste of time, but in this case I think you are not moving forward by fleshing out these random technic grartrains in LDD with next to none insight in whether and how it might actually work. This is not a mean insult, I am just stating the fact with no fancy polite wraparound :) There are two inevitable steps to do before you can successfully design any more serious technic contraption - first go through and study technic sets, learn how different things are achieved. Second get the bricks and actually build the contraptions IN REAL to see how they work. With technic even more than with lego system bricks the experience of real building is super important. I don't think you can just design something worthwile in LDD without any previous technic building experience.

In this case if you want to proceed designing this starfighter, I suggest you to use either ratchet joints to make these wings movable or to use some sort of two-position fixture latches so it can be held either up or down. You can always come back and introduce some fancier mechanism when you actually gain some experience.

6

Hello, Kris!

Awesome thank you! In no way do I take this as an insult, I see it is as stating the obvious, I know I'm no good with technic but I'm here to learn! ;) I will try and purchase some gears and technic pieces hopefully come up with a solution. I was thinking a mini-fig scale AT-TE next, I may just pursue that instead, but I don't want to give up. I appreciate your help once again!

Kind regards, Ellis.