Did Lego win the lawsuit?

[Shadow_brick]

So it’s been over a year, anyone know if Lego won the lawsuit? I’m so sick of seeing the knockoffs everywhere!

so.... any news?

[All in the Reflexes]

I dont think many lawsuits go far with regards to Chinese companies copying products, i remember when there was a chinese copy of a BMW suv, BMW got nowhere with a suit against the company that did it :/

[MAB]

No, they haven't. I don't think any result has been announced. If you are sick of knock-offs, then just make sure you buy direct from LEGO or major retailers.

[Shadow_brick]

Yeah I do. What’s really annoying is that I can’t find them on eBay because of all the lepin crap!

[GrahamSlam]

If you can't find real Lego, or don't like seeing scammers and the scum of Ebay, I would use search filters. Filter for brands that say specifically Lego, and Ebay will show those only. Or, if you're looking for an expensive set, set a price range in your search so you don't see the cheap knockoffs but rather only real ones that are still at good prices.

 

[Ether]

In some ways Lepin, LeLe, Xingbau etc are good for the Lego style toy as they will hopefully keep Lego honest.  Secondly it will be like anything, choice is good for the consumer.

Edited October 17, 2017 by Ether

[LegoRacer1]

7 hours ago, Shadow_brick said:

Yeah I do. What’s really annoying is that I can’t find them on eBay because of all the lepin crap!

Then try bricklink. I don't know if there are scammers there but probably less than ebay.

[Shadow_brick]

16 minutes ago, LegoRacer1 said:

Then try bricklink. I don't know if there are scammers there but probably less than ebay.

Yeah I have done that for a few months now.

[rodiziorobs]

Strange, I'm on eBay nearly every day and hardly see Lepin at all. Granted, I have saved my searches with N. America as the default item location, maybe try something like that?

[Cwetqo]

On 17. 10. 2017 at 4:35 PM, Shadow_brick said:

So it’s been over a year, anyone know if Lego won the lawsuit? I’m so sick of seeing the knockoffs everywhere!

so.... any news?

I asked Bali about that, when we met in LEGO House, and he said that they are "trying hard" and it's "very challenging" or something similar. He did not comment on me saying that more than one year ago they said that they will have "something to show" in "one year", so it seems that it's not quite going as planned. And I'm not sure that they said that they put in law suit, I think that this year was meant for collecting data and preparing lawsuit.

All in all, it was my impression that it's not really  a topic anybody at TLG would be happy to talk about at this stage. 

It was also my impression that focus is currently not so much on Lepin, but on current not-so-high-growth situation, which doesnt seem to be connected to Lepin case. Upon askig they said that they had really good growth in China and emerging markets and that they have trouble in more "traditional" areas (where Lepin is not really a threat, but they did not said that directly).

[koalayummies]

On October 17, 2017 at 1:53 PM, Ether said:

In some ways Lepin, LeLe, Xingbau etc are good for the Lego style toy as they will hopefully keep Lego honest.  Secondly it will be like anything, choice is good for the consumer.

Counterfeit ≠ competition. Counterfeit products are pretty much never good. How do we know theres not unsafe levels of lead in the plastic like they did with their toothpaste? It undermines investment and R&D, stifles innovation and quality control and can really hurt and even kill people. 

"Counterfeit products tend to have fake company logos and brands (resulting in patent or trademark infringement in the case of goods), have a reputation for being lower quality (sometimes not working at all) and may even include toxic elements such as lead. This has resulted in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people, due to automobile and aviation accidents, poisoning, or ceasing to take essential compounds (e.g., in the case a person takes non-working medicine)." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterfeit

"In a detailed breakdown of the counterfeit goods industry, the total loss faced by countries around the world is $600 billion."

Lego and K'nex are competitors. Canon and Nikon are competitors. Yongnuo is a counterfeiter of their products as are all the brands quoted above counterfeiters of Lego. 

Unforgivable is when they go and steal an individual Lego builder's own Ideas submission (like a Eurobrick's member's build) right off Lego Ideas submissions and produce it as a product. That should be inexcusable to anyone. What's to stop them from stealing your ideas and profiting handsomely off them?

Edited October 19, 2017 by koalayummies

[Ether]

As I said, in some ways it's good. At no point did I say theft was good.  Some of the Chinese clone Lego blocks have good kits in their own right and are perfectly legitimate.  It's about time Lego got some competition and if this is how and where it starts that's good. I'm not advocating theft I'm saying the Chinese clone could do the stuff we all want which Lego doesn't or won't do. If you look at xinbau they have some cracking military sets, others have great alternative Star was sets, etc

[koalayummies]

2 hours ago, Ether said:

As I said, in some ways it's good. At no point did I say theft was good.  Some of the Chinese clone Lego blocks have good kits in their own right and are perfectly legitimate.  It's about time Lego got some competition and if this is how and where it starts that's good. I'm not advocating theft I'm saying the Chinese clone could do the stuff we all want which Lego doesn't or won't do. If you look at xinbau they have some cracking military sets, others have great alternative Star was sets, etc

Even if they didn't copy or clone again, if they made their own original content, they still did those things and it should give serious pause to any Lego enthusiast regarding where they spend their money. And even if all of those unmentionable 'brands' never stole specific sets, content or ideas ever again they still stole the original format for all of the bricks and figures. There's nothing that says that all the thousands of bricks and figures have to have the same exact dimensions and compatibility as their competitor, thats not competing its still stealing the base product. It doesn't matter if one definitively says theft is good or bad, spending money with these companies is complicit in and supportive of their theft. 

One can MOC their own military and Star Wars stuff without giving a penny to the companies that steal and undermine what everyone here loves. 

[anothergol]

I don't understand the Ebay point. I've once discussed that somewhere else, it makes no sense. Ordering legit Lego through Ebay & receiving Lepin instead, is exactly the same as getting a box full of rocks, or nothing at all, Lepin isn't even in the equation here. When that happens, you get a refund, that's all. Lepin didn't need to exist for scams to exist.

Here I'm watching Xingbao close, because I loved their first batch of sets (the ones designed by the Arvo bros). If Lego doesn't care about that niche market that we are, well it's good that another company does.
I didn't even have a problem with the quality (or the 3 sets I bought), more with the deigns themselves full of hacks. Those who've assembled Kaneda's bike will understand what I'm talking about. But I also don't like Lego's obsession with sturdiness, I think the right spot is somewhere in-between. A MOC that's not a nightmare to assemble, that holds by itself, but doesn't sacrifice look for kid-proofing.

 

I also wonder if there would be a market for high-quality clones.That is, these days you can find pretty much every part chromed in every material, and they sell for high prices (compared to the base parts).
Now imagine clone parts that exhibit no mold mark like Lego's do (especially annoying on Technic panels, they always cover them with stickers), have non-kid-friendly pointiness where needed, etc. I don't think I'd use them because I prefer my MOCs "pure", but I wouldn't use chromed parts or third-party weapons either. But yeah, this to say that Lego doesn't offer the best possible quality either. It was even better in the past. Parts of my childhood (and it's not just a memory, I still own them) show less molding marks.

Edited October 21, 2017 by anothergol

[Foxw]

On 10/19/2017 at 9:34 PM, koalayummies said:

Even if they didn't copy or clone again, if they made their own original content, they still did those things and it should give serious pause to any Lego enthusiast regarding where they spend their money. [SNIP]

One can MOC their own military and Star Wars stuff without giving a penny to the companies that steal and undermine what everyone here loves. 

first off, I don't support LEPIN or any company that participates in underhanded counterfeiting.

okay onto the point.  it's actually a fact of life that many of the brands we buy today, exspecially in technology were once "clone brands".  ACER, LENOVO and half the cell phone market are all currently populated by companies who started with copying an existing product (resulting in usually a cheeper in all ways including functionality, option).

okay, in the world of the brick, ANY company can create a 2x4 brick just like lego's now without penalty or repercussions, long as it doesn't say LEGO on it.  TLG did not renew thier patent and as such released the basic structure to open domain.  It's a fact of life.  Many of the alternative "moral brands", like MegaBlocks/latest name of the month, and even Best Lock, to name 2 i see locally here in canada, are yes making thier 2x4's exactly how LEGO does it (minus logo) as that gives them a huge benefit of being 100% compatible with LEGO.  that's why other Block companies are not about to alter dimensions or such, change one thing even a fracttion and it'll lose the compatibility factor, which IS a huge selling point.

 

Far as this topic goes, Court cases, especially in hostile legal enviro's like CHINA (if your a non chinese company), can Take years between filing and ruling. Hell wasn't LEGO in court for like 3+years with Mega brands over mega blocks originally, even though that one resulted in a loss for LEGO.

Point being even if they started proceedings this year, it may well not be resolved untill eairly next year. Civil cases drag on forever, especially at the company level.

[Adamskii]

So its ok to discuss Lepin now? several months ago this topic was declared off limts and banned and locked up/relegated to off topic sub section.. Just checking if the rules have changed again.

 

[MAB]

On 19/10/2017 at 11:38 PM, Ether said:

It's about time Lego got some competition and if this is how and where it starts that's good.

 

 

I don't understand this comment at all. LEGO has had competition all through its existence. Megabloks is 50 years old now, Playmobil is over 40, K'Nex is 25. Tyco clones were big in the 1990s. Loads of other clones have existed since the expiry of the basic patents in the late 1980s. Before that, there weas competition from companies like Kiddicraft, Bayko, MiniBrix, etc.

[anothergol]

Playmobil / Knex / Meccano & others aren't direct competition, though. They're as competition as video games & social media because they take kid's time.
Lego's real direct competition is within a kid's time (whether that shrinks or not, and it probably does but Lego can't do anything about it, other than getting in video games themselves, which they did) dedicated to bricks. That's where Mega-Blocks is, but only for 25 years, not 50.

I'm surprised that patents aren't enforced per-part, though. It's quite fair that everyone can produce a 2x4 brick, even if Lego had "invented" it instead of stealing it in the first place (I can only laugh at the good old argument that "oh but they invented THE TUBES!"), it would be so old that it would be in the public domain anyway. But it's surprising that Mega-Blocks got away cloning more recent parts. I mean it's surprising that this was ruled ok in our countries. Because as for China, they never cared & Lego never had a chance. And Lego probably doesn't are either, Lego's problem is more with Aliexpress. If the paying-world couldn't get access to Lepin, Lego would not care. They're not losing a Chinese market they weren't interested it in the first place.

Did Lego just build a new factory in China JUST to have a leg to stand on in their lawsuit? Well if that's the case, China should thank Lepin for getting Lego to invest there.

Edited October 23, 2017 by anothergol

[MAB]

3 hours ago, anothergol said:

Playmobil / Knex / Meccano & others aren't direct competition, though. They're as competition as video games & social media because they take kid's time.
Lego's real direct competition is within a kid's time (whether that shrinks or not, and it probably does but Lego can't do anything about it, other than getting in video games themselves, which they did) dedicated to bricks.

1

I agree LEGO's competition is with a kids time, but then it always has been that way. But that doesn't mean Playmobil, K'Nex and Meccano are not direct competitors. They are competitors for time, and also competitors on the store shelf. I'm sure many a time a parent or grandparent has decided that little Timmy has enough LEGO already and gone for a different type of building toy for a present.

3 hours ago, anothergol said:

Did Lego just build a new factory in China JUST to have a leg to stand on in their lawsuit? Well if that's the case, China should thank Lepin for getting Lego to invest there.

 

I don't think so, they have had manufacturing presence in China for quite a while, at least as long as the CMF range has been going.

[anothergol]

You sure?

http://www.reuters.com/article/lego-chinafactory/toy-maker-lego-plans-to-build-first-china-factory-idUSL6N0CACJ720130318

"The Lego Group does not operate its own manufacturing facility in China currently but expects the new factory to supply approximately 70 percent to 80 percent of all Lego products sold in the region in 2017."

[Foxw]

actually what MAB, I think, was referring to with the "manufacturing presence" IS the contracting out of production for certain things IN China while they moved forward with construction and final opening on Nov 25 2016 for production.  Yes they wanted it in 2014, but well, uphill battle n all, so only 4 years after the CMF line started. or why he also said "at least", it's a nitpick, 

BUT ANYWAYS, my point being they've used china plants to help offset costs for awhile, I have a Lego games minatorus that referenced china as one of the component parts of origin on the box.  so that does count as a presence.  course in this day n age what doesn't have some part in some small fraction made in china (DIY or "all x country" doesn't count for this statement) 

On 10/23/2017 at 6:05 AM, Adamskii said:

So its ok to discuss Lepin now? several months ago this topic was declared off limts and banned and locked up/relegated to off topic sub section.. Just checking if the rules have changed again.

 

well the ban was on discussing thier products as i recall, as this topic is in relation to TLG's legal action against them, i can't see why it should be, the result's of this action will likely have far reacting implications for the community after all

[Peppermint_M]

Legal action discussion is fine. It was the outright promotion of LEPIN that was removed from the forum. Also, discussion of compatible brands has always gone into Community. This includes any legitimate competitor brand that is not a rip-off of an official LEGO product. 

On 23/10/2017 at 11:29 AM, MAB said:

Before that, there weas competition from companies like Kiddicraft, Bayko, MiniBrix, etc.

Interesting you should say that. Minibrix and Kiddicraft existed when LEGO only made wooden toys. In fact, the Automatic Binding Brick from Kiddicraft was taken and slightly modified by LEGO, then sold in countries where Kiddicraft didn't have a patent. The truth came out in the 80s when TLG were fighting Tyco.

Minibrix were made of rubber, so where slightly different.

 

[MAB]

I think it is likely that they have lost the case, or at least not won it or likely to win it, based on them re-releasing Taj Mahal. It sends a sign to buyers not to buy knock-offs, as they will re-release the sought after sets at some stage.

[dr_spock]

It could also just be bogged down in legal delays, precedings, and tactics.  The law is not fast.  Some can take years to resolve.  The side with deep pockets for lawyers can have an advantage.

[Robert8]

Look at this

http://www.brickchick.eu/2017/11/01/lego-brand-recognized-as-well-known-trademark-in-china/