Brig "Aurora"

[ER0L]

Hi all,

guess this is my first post in this forum. I'm a car builder mainly, however I build all kinds of stuff supposed to go well together on a layout. My only contact with nautical Lego so far was by building a commuter yacht:

I didn't actually plan to build a tall ship, however, I recently came across those great old hull parts and I couldn't stop tinkering with them until there was this smallish 6-gun brig. Just an early WIP and still a long way to go, but the main aspects may already be spotted. The idea is to get a hull shaping which is rather determined by flextubes than by bricks to get as fluent lines as possible. 

The brig is meant to be a pretty low waterline model which can be used on the layout and is easily accessible from the wharf (see above). Another aspect are the slightly angled masts which I think are quite important on this type of ship. Shrouds are made of strings with studs (without cutting anything). The rigging will be 100 percent Lego which also means that there won’t be any sails, but well, a ship under sails needs some water around it which isn’t possible on the layout anyway. But she might serve well as a museum ship on the wharf.

Another angle:

I'd love to hear what you ship experts think of it. What can be improved or should be changed? 

Note: Being a complete newbie in this field, I obviously looked at quite a few of your great ship models, I can't name them all. However, if I used a special technique that should be credited, I'll do that for sure.

Thanks for looking! C & C welcome as usual. 

[Cousarmy0001]

Easily the best accidental build I've ever seen!

The pictures are a little far out to offer critiques, if we could get some closer in, we could offer advice, but from a distance, it looks terrific!

The only thing I can offer right now is that you might want to add some side windows to the captain's cabin.  If I might, could I request some close ups of the prow?

[ER0L]

5 hours ago, Cousarmy0001 said:

Easily the best accidental build I've ever seen!

The pictures are a little far out to offer critiques, if we could get some closer in, we could offer advice, but from a distance, it looks terrific!

The only thing I can offer right now is that you might want to add some side windows to the captain's cabin.  If I might, could I request some close ups of the prow?

Thanks a lot, that's very helpful! Regarding the pics: At this early stage of the project I was rather thinking of the general impression - measurements, proportions, colours and such. More detailed pics would only show the many unfinished spots and missing details.  But it's no problem to upload a close-up of an important aspect if necessary.

Thanks for the hint regarding the side windows - I completely agree. In fact, I didn't have a proper idea so far. There isn't much room, and I don't want it to stick out too much - in any case, hints are very welcome.  

Regarding the prow, is this what you think of? You may also spot the fixation of the shrouds (in case that's a new aspect anyway):

Maybe the prow is a bit sharp on a ship like this, but I somehow like the shape of those arch bricks.

Thanks again for the nice and helpful comment! 

 

[Cousarmy0001]

I wanted closeups of the prow because I wanted to see what you used to make it.  From a distance, it looked really good, and it looks good up close.  Using those arches is a clever idea, most of the times that I've built ships, I've used angled bricks and tried to blend the prow into the hull itself because I was never happy with how it looked otherwise.  You've managed to make it look pretty darn good.  The use of flags for the upper hull is pretty clever as well.  It allows you to give a smooth appearance to the ship's lines.

For the side windows, you don't need another 1x4 window, you could probably get by with a 1x2 arched window and lattice insert.  The big thing is just that that part of the ship seems a little empty, and adding a window is one way to spruce it up a bit.

How many center hull sections are there in this?

My only other critique based off of what I can see here is that you might want to try a brick built anchor.  I like the modifications you made to that one, but there are some pretty good looking designs on this site if you want to make something better.  I use this design for all of my ships.

https://imgur.com/a/4abIF

(Edit: For some reason, imgur isn't letting me deeplink.  Sorry!)

I can't remember who designed it, but it wasn't me.  Full credit goes to whoever did.

Oh, and maybe put some guns behind those ports.  Given the size of this ship, you probably wouldn't want to go with the standard Lego cannons, I think a smaller brick built design would be more appropriate.  I'm surprised Kurigan hasn't weighed in on this yet, but he's very good with those, and could probably make a few good suggestions.

Edited October 16, 2017 by Cousarmy0001
Fixing Link

[GeoBrick]

It's beautiful.

I definitely need to keep using those flextubes in mind. I didn't know they existed in brown.

Have you tried or thought working with: 

instead of using the flags on the upper hull at the prow?

They're longer, but if necessary a clip can be put on the back to connect to the lower tube.

That might make the side opening on the bow element completely free as well, giving you further options to use it (gunport,...).

[Darnok]

That is a really nice ship build. I would love to see some all-around detail pictures!

[ER0L]

On 16.10.2017 at 5:49 AM, Cousarmy0001 said:

For the side windows, you don't need another 1x4 window, you could probably get by with a 1x2 arched window and lattice insert.  The big thing is just that that part of the ship seems a little empty, and adding a window is one way to spruce it up a bit.

How many center hull sections are there in this?

My only other critique based off of what I can see here is that you might want to try a brick built anchor.  I like the modifications you made to that one, but there are some pretty good looking designs on this site if you want to make something better.  I use this design for all of my ships.

https://imgur.com/a/4abIF

Oh, and maybe put some guns behind those ports.  Given the size of this ship, you probably wouldn't want to go with the standard Lego cannons, I think a smaller brick built design would be more appropriate.  I'm surprised Kurigan hasn't weighed in on this yet, but he's very good with those, and could probably make a few good suggestions.

Thanks again, this is all very helpful! I'll try the arched windows at the cabin.

There are 3 hull sections. I tried 4 of them, but the proportions of the whole thing were spoiled by doing so. I instead lengthened the rear a little. Compared scalewise the ship is quite small regarding my other builds (~ 1/40 scale) but as a larger structure on the layout the scale may be smaller anyway, I consider it to be about 1/50 (there are such small brigs). 

Thanks for the hint regarding the anchor. I can't even take credit for the modifications - it was taken straight out of the Fishing Store set I modified recently (see first pic). However I'll try to brickbuild the anchor. Thanks for the link, looks very nice indeed!

Regarding guns: The standard guns don't work here anyway, there's not enough room between the deck and the gunports. I even thought of omitting them completely, but well, as a museum ship it may have some guns on board. I'll try to brickbuild at least one or two of them.

On 16.10.2017 at 6:03 PM, GeoBrick said:

It's beautiful.

I definitely need to keep using those flextubes in mind. I didn't know they existed in brown.

Have you tried or thought working with: 

instead of using the flags on the upper hull at the prow?

They're longer, but if necessary a clip can be put on the back to connect to the lower tube.

That might make the side opening on the bow element completely free as well, giving you further options to use it (gunport,...).

Thank you! I've tried several solutions, however the flags are quite nice (I also use them on the fenders of my oldtimer cars) since they are pretty thin so that everything melts into each other nicely, there are hardly any gaps or offsets. However on a larger ship your suggestion might work, too. 

On 16.10.2017 at 6:14 PM, Drunknok said:

That is a really nice ship build. I would love to see some all-around detail pictures!

Thanks a lot! As said, there aren't many details to show right now, but this will change, of course. Even if it was a quick build so far (at least by my standards) I'm well aware that building a Lego square-rigger is rather a time-consuming and laborious process. 

Thanks again all for viewing and especially for commenting! The next time I'll have some more details to show you - in any case there's a to-do list now! 

[kurigan]

@Cousarmy0001

 

Alright, I'll chime in... 

 

 As for guns, I agree with Cousarmy. For size and scale brick built is the way to go. Handily enough, there's a link in my signature to a few purist friendly designs which may be of use. Check out The Foundry. It's very incomplete and needs a lot of work, but it's start. There's also the ones I put on Reckless and if you really like those and ask real nice, I can show you some I've come up with which no one has yet seen. 

 

My initial impression of Aurora was "oh, like Moshulu" She's a ship turned restaurant in Philadelphia where, incidentally, I had my wedding reception. This likening I based on both the setting and her hull shape. I'll expound; brace your selves! 

 

I don't think you owe any one credit in particular for any technique used, not that I can think of. In fact, I think you've invented a new one with the flex tube and flags. It’s really quite clever and looks great. You've achieved a complex shape at the bow which thus far has seemed like something of a chimera. I also like GeoBrick's idea and think it might work out if you tried it. 

 

Perhaps it's the color scheme or the thickness of the bulwarks, but I just didn't see a wooden hull, until I forced myself to look for it. She struck me right off as an iron or steel hull, something from the late 19th or early 20th century, and I don't think that's bad place to be. A lot more late-period metal hulls survive today than wooden hulls anyway. As a museum ship on a trendy waterfront, like Philly's own Penn's Landing, that makes a lot more sense to me. 

 

If you go that route, loose the cabin and round your stem into a fantail. You can use the same technique as on the bow. Also lose the guns outright, save the trouble, and give her a more benign back story, why not? 

 

OK now is where my advice gets... unpopular. While I realize the whole point was to play around with the pre-fab hulls, my best advice is to strike em. They are a handicap and a crutch at the same time, IMHO. You put Sirius at the top yourself. I shouldn't need to offer any more encouragement than that to convince you that you're a better builder, no? OK, then let me put it like this: These are to car design what pre-fabs are to ship building. You'll do as you will, but I don't see why you can't use something like Sirius' technique in combination with the flags and tubes to make a truly remarkable, unique and innovative design. 

 

Sorry all, but the "bad guy" shtick isn't over just yet. Rigging. Insist on purism here if you must, but Lego was never intended to simulate anything like a ship's rigging in anyway and always falls short. Short of truly looking the part or offering even token support to a ship model's upper works. It is my considered opinion, that in such cases, where there are simply no Lego pieces to do the job, it should be OK, even by purist standards, to introduce non-Lego elements. After all you're just substituting one piece of string for another. If difficulty and time consumption are your worry, take it from me, it's unfounded. Though it's not a task for the faint of heart, string rigging is nowhere near as challenging as it would seem most believe it to be. If you wish to give it a shot, reach out to me and I can do a lot to get you started. 

 

One more thing and again I'm repeating myself here but, ah... research, research, research. You don't need to be a "book worm" to run a few Google searches, but being able to say "This! I am definitely making one of these." is invaluable. Just like you did with Sirius, you saw a shape you liked and worked to recreate that. 

 

Alright, finally, my standard disclosure. When wondering in what tone to take my words, air in favor of benevolence rather than animosity. Though I may seem heavily critical, that I even bothered should be seen as encouragement, not discouragement. Plenty of builds go by and I say nothing. It takes time to compose all this, so take or leave my advice, but don't do so lightly. 

 

She's a great build so far. I say; keep building and thanks for sharing! 

 

edit:

1 "offering even token support to a ship model's upper works" may he too bold of a statement. Those Classic Pirate shrouds offer quite a nit of support being rigid plastic.

2 I remembered HM Bark Endeavor after I shut everything down to finally go to bed. She uses a similar technique and you may find her an interesting bit of inspiration. 

[ER0L]

6 hours ago, kurigan said:

 As for guns, I agree with Cousarmy. For size and scale brick built is the way to go. Handily enough, there's a link in my signature to a few purist friendly designs which may be of use. Check out The Foundry. It's very incomplete and needs a lot of work, but it's start. There's also the ones I put on Reckless and if you really like those and ask real nice, I can show you some I've come up with which no one has yet seen. 

 

My initial impression of Aurora was "oh, like Moshulu" She's a ship turned restaurant in Philadelphia where, incidentally, I had my wedding reception. This likening I based on both the setting and her hull shape. I'll expound; brace your selves! 

 

I don't think you owe any one credit in particular for any technique used, not that I can think of. In fact, I think you've invented a new one with the flex tube and flags. It’s really quite clever and looks great. You've achieved a complex shape at the bow which thus far has seemed like something of a chimera. I also like GeoBrick's idea and think it might work out if you tried it. 

 

Perhaps it's the color scheme or the thickness of the bulwarks, but I just didn't see a wooden hull, until I forced myself to look for it. She struck me right off as an iron or steel hull, something from the late 19th or early 20th century, and I don't think that's bad place to be. A lot more late-period metal hulls survive today than wooden hulls anyway. As a museum ship on a trendy waterfront, like Philly's own Penn's Landing, that makes a lot more sense to me. 

 

If you go that route, loose the cabin and round your stem into a fantail. You can use the same technique as on the bow. Also lose the guns outright, save the trouble, and give her a more benign back story, why not? 

 

OK now is where my advice gets... unpopular. While I realize the whole point was to play around with the pre-fab hulls, my best advice is to strike em. They are a handicap and a crutch at the same time, IMHO. You put Sirius at the top yourself. I shouldn't need to offer any more encouragement than that to convince you that you're a better builder, no? OK, then let me put it like this: These are to car design what pre-fabs are to ship building. You'll do as you will, but I don't see why you can't use something like Sirius' technique in combination with the flags and tubes to make a truly remarkable, unique and innovative design. 

 

Sorry all, but the "bad guy" shtick isn't over just yet. Rigging. Insist on purism here if you must, but Lego was never intended to simulate anything like a ship's rigging in anyway and always falls short. Short of truly looking the part or offering even token support to a ship model's upper works. It is my considered opinion, that in such cases, where there are simply no Lego pieces to do the job, it should be OK, even by purist standards, to introduce non-Lego elements. After all you're just substituting one piece of string for another. If difficulty and time consumption are your worry, take it from me, it's unfounded. Though it's not a task for the faint of heart, string rigging is nowhere near as challenging as it would seem most believe it to be. If you wish to give it a shot, reach out to me and I can do a lot to get you started. 

 

One more thing and again I'm repeating myself here but, ah... research, research, research. You don't need to be a "book worm" to run a few Google searches, but being able to say "This! I am definitely making one of these." is invaluable. Just like you did with Sirius, you saw a shape you liked and worked to recreate that. 

 

Alright, finally, my standard disclosure. When wondering in what tone to take my words, air in favor of benevolence rather than animosity. Though I may seem heavily critical, that I even bothered should be seen as encouragement, not discouragement. Plenty of builds go by and I say nothing. It takes time to compose all this, so take or leave my advice, but don't do so lightly. 

 

She's a great build so far. I say; keep building and thanks for sharing! 

 

edit:

1 "offering even token support to a ship model's upper works" may he too bold of a statement. Those Classic Pirate shrouds offer quite a nit of support being rigid plastic.

2 I remembered HM Bark Endeavor after I shut everything down to finally go to bed. She uses a similar technique and you may find her an interesting bit of inspiration. 

 

Thanks a lot Kurigan, also for the time and effort you put into your comment. This is why I came here, and I don't have a problem neither with the criticism nor with the tone - I wish we had more of this kind of constructive criticism over in the Town forum ... Also thanks a lot for all the links and suggestions.

Regarding the guns, I'll check out the links. It's interesting what you say about the general type of the ship and especially the stern - I had the impression myself that the stern and bow don't really match. However, I wanted to keep some traces of the original set I had at hand (the Barracuda in fact) und keep at least the windows. Still don't know if I'll change this aspect but I'll definitely try your suggestion of a fantail. Anyhow I like the idea of a "benign back story".

Concerning the pre-fab hull: No, I'll leave it as it is - at least for now and for this ship, although it might indeed be interesting to combine the flextube/flag technique with, say, a curved hull. I guess this would be too much at once. Anyway I have nothing against prefab parts as such - it depends on how you use them. Even the cockpit parts you name can be put to a good use on a car: 

Regarding the "100% Lego" thing: I guess Lego was never intended to simulate a lot of things and yet we build them out of Lego. And that's already my point: I'm just not interested in solving Lego problems with the use of Nonlego. Of course this gets a bit weird when there's no actual difference between Lego and Nonlego, for example regarding strings for a rigging like in this case. But well, 100 % Lego means 100 % Lego, that's what I tell people on a convention when presenting my builds - it's a kind of label I want to keep throughout. Anyhow regarding rigging I'll surely be happy to take your advice. Anyway I won't exaggerate here - I'll try to find a compromise that works for me.

Again, thanks a lot for your thorough comment which I highly estimate. Now I guess I have some homework to do! 

 

[Captain Braunsfeld]

.... looks pretty good to me...

[blackdeathgr]

I find it quite nice with many innovative techniques! Also loved the way you used those arches at the bow!

[Professor Thaum]

that's a "WOW !!" as a comment for me !