Hive

Is LEGO entering a Dark Age - or am I?

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As AFOL's, we will always be a small part of LEGO target markets and our recommendations will be for products that interest adults. There is no way we can know or understand why or how much a child will want or like a LEGO set. Yes, we have our personal preferences for sets/themes we enjoy and collect, but this is entirely subjective. 

We only can post observations about where LEGO may be having problems, but will probably never know the real source of the problems. LEGO may not even figure that out on their own using mind-blowing amounts of data that only they will see.

My guess is that they have too many product lines, which confuse the buyers of LEGO both adults and children. Walking in a LEGO store overwhelms many of us adults causing us  to leave with money in our pockets and no or little LEGO in a yellow bag. There are too many themes for us to look at in one visit to a store, and we can't make a comfortable decision about what to buy. I'm not certain, but it may be easier for many children to pick a set or two and head to the register; often we adults like to compare sets before selecting one or two. 

Does anyone else feel overwhelmed by so many themes and different products in the LEGO stores?

 

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I don't feel overwhelmed.

Well, I do, but I feel overwhelmed by the amount of LEGO that I have very little to no interest in.

Honestly, if it wasn't for BrickLink / Bricks & Pieces, Superheroes, and Star Wars, I pretty much wouldn't have anything to be interested in at all.

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On 05/09/2017 at 1:28 PM, jodawill said:

https://www.lego.com/en-us/aboutus/news-room/2017/september/interim-results/

They're laying off almost 8% of their workforce. I'd say you're not alone. I'm also very tired of the licensed themes and think their non-licensed themes are lame.

The economic downturn is not applying to TLG alone. According to Danish news sites, also American giants Hasbro and Mattel have experienced economic downturns. It seems it is more of a trend in the industry. Whether customers have found out they have toys for the next decades already, are beginning to buy second-hand, or they are turning to alternatives, that is a question to be answered.

When it comes to the themes of LEGO, I see themes - and I do not see themes. What I mean is that I buy sets I find interesting whether or not they are part of a theme I find interesting. For example I bought 7985 City of Atlantis with its giant crustacea, even though I had absolutely no interest in the theme itself. But the set provided so many great bricks for building a Roman/Greek/Hellenistic or other classic building, I just had to have the set. In the same manner, I have sets from themes like Indiana Jones (Oriental market), Prince of Persia (Middle Eastern buildings), Friends (lots of shops and details), Ninjago (great details and super for Asian buildings) and Marvel Super Heroes (details).

So even though I am only into classic themes like town/city, castle and pirates, I find sets from other themes interesting, even though I do not find the theme interesting in its own right. So still plenty of sets to put on the wishlists. I cannot buy them all :wink:

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7 hours ago, Legogal said:

Does anyone else feel overwhelmed by so many themes and different products in the LEGO stores?

I have honestly never heard anyone having that problem before. It's certainly not an issue for me, and I'm not even sure there's a big difference compared to when I was a kid. Sure, there are more new sets produced today - but back then, sets on the other hand had a much longer shelf life. So variety was always there.

1 hour ago, laka said:

So even though I am only into classic themes like town/city, castle and pirates, I find sets from other themes interesting, even though I do not find the theme interesting in its own right. So still plenty of sets to put on the wishlists. I cannot buy them all :wink:

I too buy sets that I think can in one way or the other fit into my main interests (Castle and Pirates). However the last few years, there simply hasn't been much of that nature.

You mention the Atlantis crown jewel (I kinda regret never getting that one myself, it is indeed good), Prince of Persia (I really wish I got the "castle" there), Indiana Jones as good examples - but they are all looooong gone.

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On 9/6/2017 at 4:08 AM, samurai-turtle said:

I see it more as LEGO cashing in on the bobblehead or vinyl figures. I seen some stores put the Brickheadz next to the vinyl figures. 

 

Please don't start this stuff here. People need to face it, it just didn't sell that well. All my Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit sets, that I have got where on clearance. To me it seems to be only popular with AFOL. 

... I'm baffled honestly. I'll quote another user

"Please, not this again. Noone said that it wasn't; we all realize that LEGO is first and foremost a kids' toy that we're all collecting. Not I, nor anyone else here for that matter, neither demand nor expect LEGO to change their target group from kids to adults. So please don't go there."

and you "Please don't start this stuff here."

 

Besides the fact that many of us already feel that LOTR did not sell that well for whatever reason, one can wish that lego made gondor and elven soldiers WITHOUT thinking that they know more than lego and blah blah blah whatever insults you want to throw.

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9 hours ago, x105Black said:

I don't feel overwhelmed.

Well, I do, but I feel overwhelmed by the amount of LEGO that I have very little to no interest in.

Honestly, if it wasn't for BrickLink / Bricks & Pieces, Superheroes, and Star Wars, I pretty much wouldn't have anything to be interested in at all.

I'm with you. If I didn't collect Superheroes I'd probably collect Star Wars (I have a tiny amount but hardly anything). If that wasn't about? I highly doubt I'd be collecting Lego at all!

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10 minutes ago, Captain Britain said:

I'm with you. If I didn't collect Superheroes I'd probably collect Star Wars (I have a tiny amount but hardly anything). If that wasn't about? I highly doubt I'd be collecting Lego at all!

The interesting thing about it is that, while a select few sets I buy and collect the minifigure, most sets in these themes I actually buy because they contain elements or minifigures that can be repurposed for Castle.

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10 hours ago, Legogal said:

As AFOL's, we will always be a small part of LEGO target markets and our recommendations will be for products that interest adults. There is no way we can know or understand why or how much a child will want or like a LEGO set. Yes, we have our personal preferences for sets/themes we enjoy and collect, but this is entirely subjective. 

We only can post observations about where LEGO may be having problems, but will probably never know the real source of the problems. LEGO may not even figure that out on their own using mind-blowing amounts of data that only they will see.

My guess is that they have too many product lines, which confuse the buyers of LEGO both adults and children. Walking in a LEGO store overwhelms many of us adults causing us  to leave with money in our pockets and no or little LEGO in a yellow bag. There are too many themes for us to look at in one visit to a store, and we can't make a comfortable decision about what to buy. I'm not certain, but it may be easier for many children to pick a set or two and head to the register; often we adults like to compare sets before selecting one or two. 

Does anyone else feel overwhelmed by so many themes and different products in the LEGO stores?

You're definitely not the first person to raise those concerns. It's interesting, for every "there's not enough good sets these days" complaints I see, I have easily seen just as many "there are TOO MANY good sets these days and I can't afford them all/can't choose between them".

That said, this summer I did semi-frequently visit stores and end up buying nothing, but it's less due to being paralyzed by choice and more due to planning out most of my big purchases months in advance and saving them for when there's a deal that compels me to take the plunge (like the LEGO tote bag offer a couple months ago). The number of sets my brother and I have bought this summer alone is far from insubstantial… three Elves sets, seven Ninjago Movie sets, a Friends set, three Creator sets, a Super Hero Girls set… I'm not even sure that's everything. And there are still a few Nexo Knights sets tentatively on my wish list for the rest of the year.

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1 hour ago, Captain Britain said:

I'm with you. If I didn't collect Superheroes I'd probably collect Star Wars (I have a tiny amount but hardly anything). If that wasn't about? I highly doubt I'd be collecting Lego at all!

Me too...collecting lego minifigs..connects back to the movies and comics that I have always loved.Also now my eyesight is compromised and I can no longer build scale models..Lego still lets me build stuff..but I wouldn't have been drawn to it without the S.W. or Super hero lines..but the pricing is starting to really put me off.

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14 hours ago, Bobbtom said:

Besides the fact that many of us already feel that LOTR did not sell that well for whatever reason, one can wish that lego made gondor and elven soldiers WITHOUT thinking that they know more than lego and blah blah blah whatever insults you want to throw.

First off it you want to quote multiple persons use the "+ button" next to the "quote button". :wink:

I only said what I did because I got tired of seeing it in the "Historical Theme" section. To me it seems like everyone was crying to bring back LotR &The Hobbit sets. And sadly I really haven't went back there to that section because of it. 

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I think it;s all about taste

I am not a set guy, but I am a part guy (sounds silly :)))

So, I am all about parts - and parts and molds have never been better

I guess, sets from past wher emore for playing, and sets now are more for exhibiting

We should really ask children :)

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On 9/8/2017 at 10:42 AM, x105Black said:

I think that 2016 and 2017 were great years for pastel dragons and sci-fi knights.  That does not make it a great year for Castle.  The best thing to happen for Castle was probably the Disney Castle.  If only that had come with about 10 new Castle minifigures instead of 5 Disney ones.

For what it's worth, you could probably afford a LOT of Castle minifigures by reselling or trading the Disney Castle minifigures. Just going by the last six months' BrickLink sales, a new Donald, Daisy, Mickey, Minnie, and Tinkerbell could be sold for a minimum price of $55.53 and an average price of $82.01! And in many cases the prices of current lots for sale have risen even higher. For that kind of value you could get at least ten Castle figs, even relatively rare ones like the 2013 King's Knight or 2012 Black Falcon. Granted, figs you get that way wouldn't be new Castle minifigures in the sense of having new, unique designs, but as far as army building goes it still seems like it could be a pretty enticing possibility.

 

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On 09/09/2017 at 1:18 PM, Hive said:

I too buy sets that I think can in one way or the other fit into my main interests (Castle and Pirates). However the last few years, there simply hasn't been much of that nature.

You mention the Atlantis crown jewel (I kinda regret never getting that one myself, it is indeed good), Prince of Persia (I really wish I got the "castle" there), Indiana Jones as good examples - but they are all looooong gone.

I do agree that the selection of Castle and Pirates and "compatible" sets has been rather small the last years. Luckily the sets from The LEGO Ninjago movie gives us a few that are interesting in this way. I am for example planning on getting 70608 Master Falls which I think almost screams "Pirates". - I also think the buildings from Elves can provide a good base for houses for Castle and Pirates, though you will have to find use for quite a few alternatively coloured bricks...

I did mention some of the "older" themes as examples of themes/sets you can buy even though you have no interest in the theme itself. As newer examples it could be Ninjago or some the superheroes' sets, they often provide small shops or parts of bigger places, like factories. Friends is also good for this.

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17 hours ago, samurai-turtle said:

First off it you want to quote multiple persons use the "+ button" next to the "quote button". :wink:

I only said what I did because I got tired of seeing it in the "Historical Theme" section. To me it seems like everyone was crying to bring back LotR &The Hobbit sets. And sadly I really haven't went back there to that section because of it. 

Ditto. The ever-present whining and moaning about Lotr four years after the last sets came out has made me avoid the section recently. I understand being disappointed but some folks are bordering on obsession when it comes to this. 

5 hours ago, Aanchir said:

For what it's worth, you could probably afford a LOT of Castle minifigures by reselling or trading the Disney Castle minifigures. Just going by the last six months' BrickLink sales, a new Donald, Daisy, Mickey, Minnie, and Tinkerbell could be sold for a minimum price of $55.53 and an average price of $82.01! And in many cases the prices of current lots for sale have risen even higher. For that kind of value you could get at least ten Castle figs, even relatively rare ones like the 2013 King's Knight or 2012 Black Falcon. Granted, figs you get that way wouldn't be new Castle minifigures in the sense of having new, unique designs, but as far as army building goes it still seems like it could be a pretty enticing possibility.

 

Is the King's Knight really that rare? I remember one being included in a $15 battle pack, as well as two more in 70403 and 70404. 

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18 hours ago, Angeli said:

I think it;s all about taste

I am not a set guy, but I am a part guy (sounds silly :)))

So, I am all about parts - and parts and molds have never been better

I guess, sets from past wher emore for playing, and sets now are more for exhibiting

We should really ask children :)

I think you sum it up for me, quite well. I would have easily gone back to another dark age if it wasn't for new parts.

I started collecting minifigures, and then added selected sets with great parts selection. For example, I don't buy Nexo Knights to collect them. I buy them during sales promotion for the parts.

I think the sets in the past are as playable as the sets being released now. What's changing is how kids play. Boost is one great example. I will buy this set to teach my son robotics not because of the cool factor but because we are living in a time when AI is reaching maturity and our kids need to know and learn how this technology impacts their lives.

On 9/9/2017 at 7:18 PM, Hive said:

I have honestly never heard anyone having that problem before. It's certainly not an issue for me, and I'm not even sure there's a big difference compared to when I was a kid. Sure, there are more new sets produced today - but back then, sets on the other hand had a much longer shelf life. So variety was always there.

I also do not like the trend of shorter shelf life. It's harder to delay purchases because there is now a higher chance a set won't be restocked after several months. It's getting harder and hard to find popular sets.

But to answer your question --I don't think that anyone of us is qualified to say that LEGO is going downhill unless we have the data supporting otherwise. Like others had said, it's  just a matter of taste or preference.

I for one do not like idea of display-only LEGO sets. LEGO sets are meant to be played first and foremost so I do not understand why folks are contended in collecting and locking the sets inside cupboards. I do build sets and MOCs for dioramas but locking a build inside a dust-sealed glass cabinet is not my thing. Call me crazy but if my son wants to play with my UCS collection, I really don't mind lending it to the kid.

Looking back when I was younger, I do keep my sets intact and I usually follow instructions. However, I remember disassembling my sets to make my own modifications. When I entered dark age, it's not because I don't like LEGO anymore. My interest in LEGO sets is still there but it diminished simply due to changing priorities in life. It's okay. There's nothing wrong with that. It's going to be worse if you keep on buying things that you do not like or need.

The good news is that you can focus more on the things that you like.

A theme will die, a part/mould could be decommissioned, a bigger set will always be available and more detailed version of a minifigure will come out year after year. I don't believe that the quality of our lives are defined by the material things that we purchase. That's why when I purchase a LEGO set for my kids, I do not teach them to be greedy to complete an entire theme or get to the first copy of XYZ set. I teach them about the building experience and the lessons on patience. There's got to be more to life than buying or completing a collection.

 

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6 hours ago, BrickJagger said:

Ditto. The ever-present whining and moaning about Lotr four years after the last sets came out has made me avoid the section recently. I understand being disappointed but some folks are bordering on obsession when it comes to this. 

Is the King's Knight really that rare? I remember one being included in a $15 battle pack, as well as two more in 70403 and 70404. 

That particular version is only in one set, but you make a fair point that there were other similar ones in other sets (just with different helmets, faces, etc). I just grabbed the first two examples I could come up with of recent-ish knight minifigures who only came in one set and were decked out in full helmets+armor.

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15 hours ago, BrickJagger said:

Ditto. The ever-present whining and moaning about Lotr four years after the last sets came out has made me avoid the section recently. I understand being disappointed but some folks are bordering on obsession when it comes to this. 

Is the King's Knight really that rare? I remember one being included in a $15 battle pack, as well as two more in 70403 and 70404. 

Whining and moaning? Are we really going to insult others in this fourm? People like a theme and when they fell like their theme, especially if they really like it, is unsatisfactory, they will complain. You make it sound like they are a bunch of drug-addicts on withdraw.

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On 9/8/2017 at 11:13 PM, Legogal said:

My guess is that they have too many product lines, which confuse the buyers of LEGO both adults and children. Walking in a LEGO store overwhelms many of us adults causing us  to leave with money in our pockets and no or little LEGO in a yellow bag. There are too many themes for us to look at in one visit to a store, and we can't make a comfortable decision about what to buy. I'm not certain, but it may be easier for many children to pick a set or two and head to the register; often we adults like to compare sets before selecting one or two. 

Does anyone else feel overwhelmed by so many themes and different products in the LEGO stores?

 

I can see this as an issue.  I'd like to see less themes, but have more set variety in a theme; maybe two sets at each price point instead of one.  I can see parents feeling overwhelmed by the range of themes.

On 9/9/2017 at 5:10 AM, laka said:

When it comes to the themes of LEGO, I see themes - and I do not see themes. What I mean is that I buy sets I find interesting whether or not they are part of a theme I find interesting. For example I bought 7985 City of Atlantis with its giant crustacea, even though I had absolutely no interest in the theme itself. But the set provided so many great bricks for building a Roman/Greek/Hellenistic or other classic building, I just had to have the set. In the same manner, I have sets from themes like Indiana Jones (Oriental market), Prince of Persia (Middle Eastern buildings), Friends (lots of shops and details), Ninjago (great details and super for Asian buildings) and Marvel Super Heroes (details).

Totally agree.  I buy sets based on parts selection for the most part.

On 9/9/2017 at 10:26 PM, Angeli said:

I think it;s all about taste

I am not a set guy, but I am a part guy (sounds silly :)))

So, I am all about parts - and parts and molds have never been better

I guess, sets from past wher emore for playing, and sets now are more for exhibiting

We should really ask children :)

It's not silly at all.

And I agree.  People, children included, seem to build sets and leave them as is.  My kids are getting older now, but when they played with Lego, they built the sets, and played with them more like plastic toys. Sure they blew up things, but a car usually remained a car.

When I was a kid, a set remained a set for a very short time, but then again I was just a rainbow builder.  I was able to make my limited collection be anything I wanted it to be.  My kids have strong imaginations, but I see it more on the story side they play out rather than their constructions.

16 hours ago, makoy said:

I think the sets in the past are as playable as the sets being released now. What's changing is how kids play. Boost is one great example. I will buy this set to teach my son robotics not because of the cool factor but because we are living in a time when AI is reaching maturity and our kids need to know and learn how this technology impacts their lives.

I also do not like the trend of shorter shelf life. It's harder to delay purchases because there is now a higher chance a set won't be restocked after several months. It's getting harder and hard to find popular sets.

I think you just talked me into buying Boost for my daughter.  And if we like it, it will give me the confidence I need to jump into Mindstorms!

And yes.  I wish sets stayed around for years, not months.

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11 hours ago, Bobbtom said:

Whining and moaning? Are we really going to insult others in this fourm? People like a theme and when they fell like their theme, especially if they really like it, is unsatisfactory, they will complain. You make it sound like they are a bunch of drug-addicts on withdraw.

That's a bit of a hyperbole, don't you think?

I get that some fans of LOTR were dissatisfied with the theme. However, repeating the exact same criticism almost half a decade after the theme's end is beating a dead horse to say the least. We know there are sets they wanted, we just don't need to keep hearing about it. Not trying to start a flamewar here either. 

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How do I feel about Lego right now? There is a lot I like; I am a Star Wars fan, I love Superheroes, and I love the Creator Modulars. Great time right? 

Well there are things that frustrate me. Marvel Superheroes is a theme I love but this year has landed very very flat for me. I enjoy the minifigures but I want a bit more, meat to the main sets themselves... Star Wars has been decent this year, but I feel last year's sets were better in a few ways. And the best sets in Star Wars are priced out of my purchasing range (Most of the TLJ sets and the UCS Falcon as proof of that). Lego Batman Movie has been fun for the CMFs and small sets but I haven't bought anything from that line worth more than $15...

On top of it all my reignited interest in CCBS from 2015-2016 failed as soon as Bionicle collapsed. I have only bought like two CCBS sets since then and while fun, the appeal isn't there anymore to collect them like I used to. I would like to get into Technic a bit but the prices on the sets I want kind of make it hard to dip my feet in there. 

On top of that I am trying to break into new hobbies and while I buy plenty of Lego, sometimes I put my Lego purchasing on hold if it means I can buy an HO scale train I wanted, or a few nice books to read. 

The weird thing is for all of my interests you know what was my funnest Lego moment this year? Helping my young cousin build the Minecraft Nether Railway set and playing with him. That one set, a flat base of a few basic bricks was more entertaining than many of the sets I have bought for myself this year, at least seeing my cousin's manic play with it. Maybe it is a sign I'm getting to old for this :laugh:

So yeah weird year in the Lego hobby for me. Lots of fun stuff but some downers in the mix too.

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On 9/10/2017 at 9:49 AM, Aanchir said:

For what it's worth, you could probably afford a LOT of Castle minifigures by reselling or trading the Disney Castle minifigures. Just going by the last six months' BrickLink sales, a new Donald, Daisy, Mickey, Minnie, and Tinkerbell could be sold for a minimum price of $55.53 and an average price of $82.01! And in many cases the prices of current lots for sale have risen even higher. For that kind of value you could get at least ten Castle figs, even relatively rare ones like the 2013 King's Knight or 2012 Black Falcon. Granted, figs you get that way wouldn't be new Castle minifigures in the sense of having new, unique designs, but as far as army building goes it still seems like it could be a pretty enticing possibility.

None of that is a replacement for new minifigures.  Old ones are nice, but it's the new ones that interest folks.

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I think they are just coming out of a dark age.  But I think they are focusing on licensed theme too much.

Edited by Hart New Bob

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20 hours ago, xboxtravis7992 said:

How do I feel about Lego right now? There is a lot I like; I am a Star Wars fan, I love Superheroes, and I love the Creator Modulars. Great time right? 

Well there are things that frustrate me. Marvel Superheroes is a theme I love but this year has landed very very flat for me. I enjoy the minifigures but I want a bit more, meat to the main sets themselves... Star Wars has been decent this year, but I feel last year's sets were better in a few ways. And the best sets in Star Wars are priced out of my purchasing range (Most of the TLJ sets and the UCS Falcon as proof of that). Lego Batman Movie has been fun for the CMFs and small sets but I haven't bought anything from that line worth more than $15...

On top of it all my reignited interest in CCBS from 2015-2016 failed as soon as Bionicle collapsed. I have only bought like two CCBS sets since then and while fun, the appeal isn't there anymore to collect them like I used to. I would like to get into Technic a bit but the prices on the sets I want kind of make it hard to dip my feet in there. 

On top of that I am trying to break into new hobbies and while I buy plenty of Lego, sometimes I put my Lego purchasing on hold if it means I can buy an HO scale train I wanted, or a few nice books to read. 

The weird thing is for all of my interests you know what was my funnest Lego moment this year? Helping my young cousin build the Minecraft Nether Railway set and playing with him. That one set, a flat base of a few basic bricks was more entertaining than many of the sets I have bought for myself this year, at least seeing my cousin's manic play with it. Maybe it is a sign I'm getting to old for this :laugh:

So yeah weird year in the Lego hobby for me. Lots of fun stuff but some downers in the mix too.

The Superheroes theme is a time where one really has to remember this is a toy for kids to play with...but I agree with you. As an adult who collects the theme, I'd love to see more Bridge Battles & Daily Bugles and less....of everything else. Give us locations. They need to start thinking like a realtor... Location! Location! Location!:tongue:

 

As for Batman Movie sets, I think you're missing out. Despite what I said above about the overabundance of vehicles in the Superheroes theme, the Movie vehicles are all pretty great. The Batmobile is fantastic. I'm not even a real fan of Lowriders, but Jokers is probably my favorite set of the line. 

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My 2 cents...

Lego overall is GREAT right now. Is it the best for ME right now? No. But that's ok. I think it SHOULD be goal to get into moc/mods eventually for AFOLS. I know it's where I am heading. The actual sets (except for THE really good ones) serve a better purpose as a basis for something bigger and better. I have a rather large layout (city, pirates, castle, lotr) and I tend to think more about "how can I improve this" as opposed to "what new set do I want?" But again this is just me, we all have different wants. Would I prefer a new pirates or castle line? Sure. But I did get the silent Mary this year, and I feel she's pretty impressive. Now they have Destiney's Bounty out. Even though I'm not a Ninjago fan, I'd still love to add that set to my layout, same goes for Ninjago City. Which is why Lego is still great, because I could care less about Ninjago, but I like those sets. 

Interesting sets will always get interest. They have NEVER been better than they have for the last few years. The place where Lego needs to improve is with the $75 and under range. Parents are sick of buying $75 sets when their kid only wants a certain minifig. I say, make less sets, but make them BETTER, and sell team packs for minifigs. Dimensions was a gold mine for minifigs, keep that going but lose the game.

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23 hours ago, Captain Pirate Man said:

Interesting sets will always get interest. They have NEVER been better than they have for the last few years. The place where Lego needs to improve is with the $75 and under range. Parents are sick of buying $75 sets when their kid only wants a certain minifig. I say, make less sets, but make them BETTER, and sell team packs for minifigs. Dimensions was a gold mine for minifigs, keep that going but lose the game.

Yep.....they really only seem to care about the +75$.......but  IMO they seem to mostly care about the 90$+ when it comes to design, quality. ETC.

Edited by Hart New Bob

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