Is LEGO entering a Dark Age - or am I?

[Hive]

Back when I came back from my so called LEGO Dark Ages in around 2009 (and the years that followed), there were sooo many great LEGO themes and sets out there. So many that I couldn't come close to collecting everything I wanted; Fantasy Castle, Kingdoms, Pirates (and some years later another round of Pirates), Pirates of The Carribean, Harry Potter (while not interested in the figures or stories, there were some great versatile builds and parts), Lord of The Rings/The Hobbit, Monster Fighters, Prince of Persia and not to forget some occational great entries in the Creator line. Great LEGO sets everywhere, and so many I regret missing out on - especially these days where there is NOTHING at all that appeals to me (not counting a CMF here and there). Not even Creator has released anything this year that I care for. I bought a couple of Creator sets last year as my only non-CMF purchases, but this year it's been a dry well. And it's certainly not because I don't *want* to buy new LEGO sets, I really do. There's just nothing that appeals to me anymore - it seems like everything is either mini dolls or action/outlandish vehicles heavy.

So the question is: is it LEGO going downhill - or is it me? Does anyone else feel the same?

[Robert8]

I sometimes feel the licensed themes (Star Wars and Superheroes) are taking over LEGO. And they are always like the same. There are like 23492348 Batman sets and the some Star Wars sets already have like 3 or 4 iterations (or even 8 like the Millennium Falcon!)

And the approach of the non-licensed themes is very childish. The Ninja theme from the late 90's became Ninjago. Castle became Nexo Knights. (Watch the next one in that vein being a Space theme). But this isn't LEGO's fault. Times change, and we change with them. That's what kids like now. They are looking for more personalized toys with characters they can relate to. So, instead of having a random gang of ninjas in the 90's, now there are 5 defined characters with a different color scheme each, so everyone can pick a favorite. Same with Nexo Knights.

Jewels like Monster Fighters or Pharaoh's Quest are a breath of fresh air but sadly they are becoming rarer

That's why I love the CMF line. It always brings something new to the table.

But anyway, you can have more than 1 Dark Age. Maybe you'll are entering into a new one. Or maybe it's both

[jodawill]

https://www.lego.com/en-us/aboutus/news-room/2017/september/interim-results/

They're laying off almost 8% of their workforce. I'd say you're not alone. I'm also very tired of the licensed themes and think their non-licensed themes are lame.

The biggest problem I have with Lego these days is that it's no longer what people call an "open" toy. Sets used to contain much more generic pieces and used unrealistically bright colors, like yellow for sand. When I was a kid, we didn't just build sets and set them on a shelf. We dumped all of the parts into a tub and built rainbow buildings. I think the new sets leave very little to the imagination.

[ElectroDiva]

Just to add a bit of balance - I think this year has been exceptional in terms of appealing sets (appealing to me at least).

 

So far we've had Assembly Square, a new Carousel, Silent Mary, Joker's low rider, Penguin Arctic Roller, Batman CMF series, Ninjago City, Destiny's Bounty, Old Fishing store, Saturn V, UCS Snowspeeder and a new UCS Falcon still to come!!

 

The only minor downside from my perspective has been the lack a traditional Castle theme (I really, really dislike Nexo Knights) and the lack of a new train set (mitigated by the release of the winter village station).

 

You have to go back a long time to find a line up as stellar as that

 

 

[Trekkie99]

2 hours ago, Robert8 said:

I sometimes feel the licensed themes (Star Wars and Superheroes) are taking over LEGO. And they are always like the same. There are like 23492348 Batman sets and the some Star Wars sets already have like 3 or 4 iterations (or even 8 like the Millennium Falcon!)

And the approach of the non-licensed themes is very childish. The Ninja theme from the late 90's became Ninjago. Castle became Nexo Knights. (Watch the next one in that vein being a Space theme). But this isn't LEGO's fault. Times change, and we change with them. That's what kids like now. They are looking for more personalized toys with characters they can relate to. So, instead of having a random gang of ninjas in the 90's, now there are 5 defined characters with a different color scheme each, so everyone can pick a favorite. Same with Nexo Knights.

Jewels like Monster Fighters or Pharaoh's Quest are a breath of fresh air but sadly they are becoming rarer

That's why I love the CMF line. It always brings something new to the table.

But anyway, you can have more than 1 Dark Age. Maybe you'll are entering into a new one. Or maybe it's both

This, 100%! Its just what kids want sadly. Not to say that TLG is doing to good lately considering they're cutting 1400 jobs!

[Digger of Bricks]

1 hour ago, jodawill said:

https://www.lego.com/en-us/aboutus/news-room/2017/september/interim-results/

They're laying off almost 8% of their workforce. I'd say you're not alone. I'm also very tired of the licensed themes and think their non-licensed themes are lame.

The biggest problem I have with Lego these days is that it's no longer what people call an "open" toy. Sets used to contain much more generic pieces and used unrealistically bright colors, like yellow for sand. When I was a kid, we didn't just build sets and set them on a shelf. We dumped all of the parts into a tub and built rainbow buildings. I think the new sets leave very little to the imagination.

^ This ^

I'm not saying that they should completely head this direction, but I think Lego should take after Playmobil more, focusing on more classic, archetypical themes like Lego once used to. 

Playmobil may not be the powerhouse that Lego is now, but someone is buying their toys, and I'm sure that many of Lego's current offerings don't have much appeal to that demographic.

 

[rodiziorobs]

8 hours ago, ElectroDiva said:

So far we've had Assembly Square, a new Carousel, Silent Mary, Joker's low rider, Penguin Arctic Roller, Batman CMF series, Ninjago City, Destiny's Bounty, Old Fishing store, Saturn V, UCS Snowspeeder and a new UCS Falcon still to come!!

...

You have to go back a long time to find a line up as stellar as that.

Problem is most of those sets are over $100, and the couple that aren't (the Batman stuff you list) have a niche appeal and while nice, are overpriced for what they are. For me the strength of the product doesn't depend on the quality or value of their most expensive items (since I will never be able to afford all those sets you list), but by the low to mid-range items. I agree with @Hive that there is very little that appeals to me that isn't expensive--while I would love to spend a little here and a little there, there is not much that's worth it unless you want to plunk down a lot of $$$ for a set.

[Vindicare]

Going off Lego Shop, and consolidating a bit(making Marvel & DC one under Superheroes, making Creator one instead of two) Classic beats Licensed by one(I'm not including Brickheadz in the count either). I didn't add Juniors, Duplo, Ideas...as they have both. Then I didn't add Simpsons or Ghostbusters, as neither are full lines. 

I think, in the case of the OP, it's more on you than TLG. Their current offerings aren't to your liking. Which I understand. Creator, specifically houses, are very lacking to me. I long for the days of Model Town House, Apple Tree House, and the like. Not the open backed ones of today. I admire the facades of them, just wish they weren't open backed.

It's funny, just last night I was reminiscing on the great "one and done" Action themes of late- Pharaoh's Quest, Monster Fighters, Dino...

Superheroes is the line, as an adult, that frustrates me most. Getting all the weird vehicles, understanding because clearly kids like them, is even more frustrating when we get beauties like the Ultimate Bridge Battle, and to a lesser extent, the Daily Bugle. 

As a whole, I'm still very pleased with LEGO's offerings as a whole. But, it will be nice to see Classic Castle, Space, and Pirates again. 

[AntiKragle]

Looking back at catalogues between '83 and '88 (when I was a child enchanted by Lego) there was a simplicity to the sets that included a much higher proportion of low to medium priced items, compared to more expensive sets, than are available now.  There were suggestions for alternative builds. There were few stickers that restrict the utility and re-use of bricks. 

In the current era, across a vast range of themes Lego has failed to deliver pocket money affordability (CMFs have limited playability) for today's children and they need to look at having proportionately more sets in the €10 to €20 bracket. I think that more useful classic and creator sets need to be released (we don't need 42 colours in each set) and a limit on the number of licensed themes to help keep price per part costs down. There will always be bigger sets for special occasions and always room for AFOL-targeted mega sets but the bigger picture needs to be smaller.

[koalayummies]

I feel like this is one of the best times to be an AFOL but I agree with a lot of what has been said, especially that licensed content is taking over while original content, ideas and themes seem a bit neglected.

However if no official retail sets appeal to you then you can always MOC/MOD, there are so many ways to get the pieces one needs, multiple digital building programs... You can be a Lego builder without being enthusiastic about retail sets and make things that are way better than Lego would bring to market.  

[ElectroDiva]

1 hour ago, rodiziorobs said:

Problem is most of those sets are over $100, and the couple that aren't (the Batman stuff you list) have a niche appeal and while nice, are overpriced for what they are. For me the strength of the product doesn't depend on the quality or value of their most expensive items (since I will never be able to afford all those sets you list), but by the low to mid-range items. 

 

Agreed most of them are pretty pricey, but the Arctic Roller set was only £30 and really is an exceptional set. Here are some other 2017 sets I liked for £30 and under:

 

41311: Heartlake Pizzeria - £25

60150: Pizza Van - £15

70608: Master Falls - £25

75182: Republic Fighter Tank - £20

 

1 hour ago, Vindicare said:

As a whole, I'm still very pleased with LEGO's offerings as a whole. But, it will be nice to see Classic Castle, Space, and Pirates again. 

 

Same here. I would love to see those classic themes return but on balance I'm happy with TLGs output this year. 

Edited September 5, 2017 by ElectroDiva

[BrickG]

I think they're getting better honestly. Sets are getting nicer. Minifigures getting better (the Batman movie molds were fantastic). There are still some issues but in general I think what causes a Lego dark age is usually just someone needing a Lego break.

[Peppermint_M]

I think it is more a case of your tastes that are not running towards current trends.

I always find it a little odd though, that people are so dependent on the sets to perpetuate the hobby. In terms of colour variety and parts available we are absolutely rich in choice. Friends, Elves and Super Hero Girls have provided a fresh bright selection of colours for the basic parts. City Explorers is a fab new sub-theme with a great pile of wildlife to add to the LEGO menagerie and Classic is great for parts now. The creative boxes in four colours boost your parts count cheaply. 

Sure, I think the Brickheadz are stupid. Just really really stupid. (Waiting for clearance so I can get my hands on all those lovely SNOT bricks) Star Wars and Superheroes are slaves to canon. But still, LEGO sets are turning up that I want to build before I part out.

With parts to play with and colours to use, LEGO can last me forever. 

[Evolved Turtle]

I wish there was a fantasy theme centered around brick-built dragons, much like the fan-made one here; 

 

That being said, I wish LEGO hadn't ended LOTR so quickly. We only got one of "The Two Towers" and that isn't even mentioning tons of other locations, creatures, and minifigures that were never made. Minas Tirith, Osgiliath, The Prancing Pony, Minas Morgul, the Bridge of Khazad-Dum with Durin's Bane, fell beasts, oliphaunts, the Watcher in the water, the Witch King, Faramir, Eowyn... I could go on for hours...

[Vindicare]

 

9 hours ago, koalayummies said:

I feel like this is one of the best times to be an AFOL but I agree with a lot of what has been said, especially that licensed content is taking over while original content, ideas and themes seem a bit neglected.

However if no official retail sets appeal to you then you can always MOC/MOD, there are so many ways to get the pieces one needs, multiple digital building programs... You can be a Lego builder without being enthusiastic about retail sets and make things that are way better than Lego would bring to market.  

I don't think Licensed is taking over, maybe it was because of LEGO Batman? 

I think a special note should be added for City. We constantly complain about the revolving door of Police/Fire. Look at the last few years, all the different "explorers" off shoots we've got. There were many sets that I would've liked the get, it was just other stuff took precedence. 

[Bobbtom]

10 hours ago, Evolved Turtle said:

I wish there was a fantasy theme centered around brick-built dragons, much like the fan-made one here; 

 

That being said, I wish LEGO hadn't ended LOTR so quickly. We only got one of "The Two Towers" and that isn't even mentioning tons of other locations, creatures, and minifigures that were never made. Minas Tirith, Osgiliath, The Prancing Pony, Minas Morgul, the Bridge of Khazad-Dum with Durin's Bane, fell beasts, oliphaunts, the Watcher in the water, the Witch King, Faramir, Eowyn... I could go on for hours...

I see all these new molds for lego 2017 and I can't help but be annoyed at how not a single gondor soldier helmet or elven helmet was made.......

[samurai-turtle]

12 hours ago, Peppermint_M said:

Sure, I think the Brickheadz are stupid. Just really really stupid. (Waiting for clearance so I can get my hands on all those lovely SNOT bricks) Star Wars and Superheroes are slaves to canon. But still, LEGO sets are turning up that I want to build before I part out.

I see it more as LEGO cashing in on the bobblehead or vinyl figures. I seen some stores put the Brickheadz next to the vinyl figures. 

11 hours ago, Evolved Turtle said:

 

That being said, I wish LEGO hadn't ended LOTR so quickly. We only got one of "The Two Towers" and that isn't even mentioning tons of other locations, creatures, and minifigures that were never made. Minas Tirith, Osgiliath, The Prancing Pony, Minas Morgul, the Bridge of Khazad-Dum with Durin's Bane, fell beasts, oliphaunts, the Watcher in the water, the Witch King, Faramir, Eowyn... I could go on for hours...

 

22 minutes ago, Bobbtom said:

I see all these new molds for lego 2017 and I can't help but be annoyed at how not a single gondor soldier helmet or elven helmet was made.......

Please don't start this stuff here. People need to face it, it just didn't sell that well. All my Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit sets, that I have got where on clearance. To me it seems to be only popular with AFOL. 

[Hive]

On 5/9/2017 at 11:56 AM, Robert8 said:

And the approach of the non-licensed themes is very childish. The Ninja theme from the late 90's became Ninjago. Castle became Nexo Knights. (Watch the next one in that vein being a Space theme). But this isn't LEGO's fault. Times change, and we change with them. That's what kids like now. They are looking for more personalized toys with characters they can relate to. So, instead of having a random gang of ninjas in the 90's, now there are 5 defined characters with a different color scheme each, so everyone can pick a favorite. Same with Nexo Knights.

I'm not convinced this is true. Look at Playmobil: they still have success with unpersonalized characters and keep being able to sell classic themes long abandoned by LEGO, such as Castle and Pirates. While not as big a company as LEGO, obviously, I'm sure they wouldn't do it if it didn't sell. And their target age groups are the same.

14 hours ago, Vindicare said:

Creator, specifically houses, are very lacking to me. I long for the days of Model Town House, Apple Tree House, and the like. Not the open backed ones of today. I admire the facades of them, just wish they weren't open backed.

Yeah, I miss those great creator sets. But the most recent ones all pretty much look the same and/or are only facades.

12 hours ago, Peppermint_M said:

I think it is more a case of your tastes that are not running towards current trends.

I always find it a little odd though, that people are so dependent on the sets to perpetuate the hobby. In terms of colour variety and parts available we are absolutely rich in choice. Friends, Elves and Super Hero Girls have provided a fresh bright selection of colours for the basic parts. City Explorers is a fab new sub-theme with a great pile of wildlife to add to the LEGO menagerie and Classic is great for parts now. The creative boxes in four colours boost your parts count cheaply.

I like some new molds, figures, colours and ideas for use in my favourite themes (Castle and Pirates) every now and then.

While there are occationally some interesting parts in, say, the Elves theme, there's simply waaay too many parts that are outright useless to me - especially the figures (and selling mini-dolls on Bricklink is hard).

[DrasticPlastic]

I find it baffling that people think the simplistic builds of the 80's and 90's are superior to the vastly larger, more detailed sets of today that just drown us in useful parts, colours and the like.

See how far your MOC's get with only parts released in the 90's! Check out the evolution of Millenium Falcon's for a clue!

You think kids want a bucket of bricks over a Batmobile? 

As for 'expensive', ha! I grew up in the 80's - a 500 brick set would cost £100, that's probably £150 in today's money!

The fact is lego is vastly better and quantifiable cheaper than ever. The selection is better, there's more parts and more sales and discounts. 

A huge number of kids - say the stats guys - clear £40 in pocket money a month. It's not as if these sets cost thousands. 

Lego's issue is just releasing too much - two films in one year? 3 waves of Star Wars sets? I can't find the space for 40+ new sets a year, even if I can afford it.

Lego can't beat a PS4 game's appeal with a bucket of bricks and if that's what YOU want...bricklink, maybe?

[Matti]

This is indeed and interesting discussion 

 

I was a bit shocked when i read the news about the Lego-plunge. Though, after about 5 minutes of deeper thinking it made some kind of sense too me. i would like to put the "Market-value" glasses on the shelf in here for a bit, and focus on the more nostalgic value of Lego, and speculate a bit with you folks. These speculations might not have anything too do with the plunge, but i think they contributed.. 

First thing that stood clear too me was; Kill the Star Wars license

This license will soon be 20 years old. It should never have gone this far. We are talking a big stretch of time here, where Lego has ridden the wave of success from an ongoing popular theme. And even though the 3 prequel movies in my eyes were a mess, the theme landed on a hungry market. But the expensive license, and Disney taking over hasn't helped them at all, and i was shocked to pieces when i saw the pricing on the new episode 7 sets back when they were released. I worked at the Lego store in Copenhagen at that time and had trouble finding the right excuses for the costumers so they could justify buying an ridiculously expensive Tie Fighter vehicle.. Seriously, it didn't sell that well.. 

I was concerned for the company when i quitted working at the store. It seemed like the inspirational toy was gone, and all you could get in the brand stores were double vip points, bonus gifts and expensive licensed toys. 

Lego is a material which you need to buy in order the build. But somehow the toy brand has always been keen on making it inspirational just to have 4 bricks, if you couldn't afford more. This is just a romantic wish now, but i think that Lego needs to rethink their marketing strategy radically, because this is giving them a serious slap in the face now, as it has been building up slowly..

Its just like all the other technology phenomenons in the world; smartphones, crazy apps. We are simple creatures, with simple needs. And a 7000+ piece millennium falcon never beats 4 red bricks in the creative process

Back to the roots dear Lego

[Aanchir]

13 hours ago, Evolved Turtle said:

I wish there was a fantasy theme centered around brick-built dragons, much like the fan-made one here; 

 

I mean, we currently have TWO themes with a heavy emphasis on brick-built dragons: Elves and Ninjago. They're not quite the same style as Dragon Lands, but I don't think we're lacking in choice in that respect.

Overall, I don't see any reason to think LEGO is entering a "dark age" or anything like that. LEGO has loads of great non-licensed sets, even if a lot of stuffy old AFOLs tend to ignore them because they mistakenly think they're more "childish" than the simplistic, brightly-colored playsets they enjoyed as kids. LEGO is magnitudes more popular with girls than they ever were in the past. And the fact that the company has hit a slight bump in the road after basically a decade of steady growth doesn't somehow mean they've veered completely off the successful course they've been on for the past decade.

[Hive]

1 hour ago, Aanchir said:

Overall, I don't see any reason to think LEGO is entering a "dark age" or anything like that. LEGO has loads of great non-licensed sets, even if a lot of stuffy old AFOLs tend to ignore them because they mistakenly think they're more "childish" than the simplistic, brightly-colored playsets they enjoyed as kids. LEGO is magnitudes more popular with girls than they ever were in the past. And the fact that the company has hit a slight bump in the road after basically a decade of steady growth doesn't somehow mean they've veered completely off the successful course they've been on for the past decade.

First of all, you can't say AFOLs are "wrong" or "mistaken" to not like these sets. That's simply silly talk. Liking something is subjective, there is no right or wrong. It's all about tastes, which differ.

I think it's great that LEGO has a much bigger appeal towards girls these days, but I really wish they hadn't had to go the road of mini-dolls to get there. Because those dolls and cutesey animals (not to mention the absurd use of big slides in every other girl-aimed set, what's up with that anyway??) ruins those sets to me.

As an adult collector, I feel LEGO is moving further and further away from producing sets for my tastes (outside of the occational special, exclusive AFOL-oriented set). I know LEGO is a kids' toy and that kids are obviously more important to LEGO, but as an adult collector, I feel that LEGO produces less and less sets that can appeal to both kids and adults alike.

I understand that those people who are really into Star Wars or Super Heroes disagree; but try to look at it from the perspective of someone who is *not* into those heavily-featured themes.

[rodiziorobs]

18 hours ago, ElectroDiva said:

Agreed most of them are pretty pricey, but the Arctic Roller set was only £30 and really is an exceptional set. Here are some other 2017 sets I liked for £30 and under:

 

41311: Heartlake Pizzeria - £25

60150: Pizza Van - £15

70608: Master Falls - £25

75182: Republic Fighter Tank - £20

Sorry, I wasn't trying to say there were no good mid-range sets. As you point out, there are a few that are nice: the ones you mention, along with some Elves sets, the only recent theme to really grab my attention. It just seems like (to me) the value isn't always there for a lot of them.

For example, I almost bought the Arctic Roller; it was so different from anything else, some great part usage, etc. But when I held the box in person (after reading reviews and such online) it felt...I dunno, insubstantial. I ended up not getting it.

Now that I am sitting here typing this out I can see that it is probably just me being a jaded adult with bills to pay.

[Bonaparte]

I love Pirates, Castle, Vikings, Wild West, Adventurers, ... but none of these themes are still available.

I often look at the LEGO shelves in stores with $$$ in my pocket but those will stay there till there's again a theme I like. 

Having stuff like Ninjago and Superheroes is fine for me, as long as there's enough diversification including some really cool historic themes. With an ancient Roman or Greek theme LEGO will be back on the growth track in no time!

[Aanchir]

5 hours ago, Hive said:

First of all, you can't say AFOLs are "wrong" or "mistaken" to not like these sets. That's simply silly talk. Liking something is subjective, there is no right or wrong. It's all about tastes, which differ.

I think it's great that LEGO has a much bigger appeal towards girls these days, but I really wish they hadn't had to go the road of mini-dolls to get there. Because those dolls and cutesey animals (not to mention the absurd use of big slides in every other girl-aimed set, what's up with that anyway??) ruins those sets to me.

As an adult collector, I feel LEGO is moving further and further away from producing sets for my tastes (outside of the occational special, exclusive AFOL-oriented set). I know LEGO is a kids' toy and that kids are obviously more important to LEGO, but as an adult collector, I feel that LEGO produces less and less sets that can appeal to both kids and adults alike.

I understand that those people who are really into Star Wars or Super Heroes disagree; but try to look at it from the perspective of someone who is *not* into those heavily-featured themes.

I don't think it's "wrong" to not like a theme. I think it's "wrong" to make up silly excuses for why a modern theme aimed at ages 7+ (like Ninjago, Elves, or Nexo Knights) is somehow "more childish" than a classic theme aimed at the same age range or younger (like City, Castle, or Pirates). It's a profoundly lazy way to dismissing themes you don't like by making them sound frivolous or unsophisticated, and you'd think AFOLs would know better than to resort to that sort of rhetoric given how easy it is for people outside the community to dismiss our entire hobby in those same terms. We should all be big enough to admit when we don't like a theme without making it sound like it's beneath our dignity or insinuating that the stuff we DO like is more grown-up or mature somehow.

I mean, really, how are smiley-faced spacemen in color coded onesies with a big, cartoony planet logo on the front any more "grown up" than ninjas with shiny gold weapons fighting spooky snake monsters? Just because the people who enjoyed the classic themes have grown up does not make liking those themes any more of a grown-up thing than liking more recent stuff. It's that double standard that bothers me — the idea that older kid-targeted themes or brands are perfectly acceptable for grown-ups to enjoy, but they'd be debasing themselves to enjoy anything newer, even if it's targeted at the same age range as the old stuff.

Your comment about LEGO "producing less and less sets that can appeal to kids and adults alike" further exemplifies this. I'm an adult and Ninjago and Elves are among my all-time favorite themes. Given the amount of enthusiasm and discussion of those themes on sites like this one, I hardly think I'm alone in that. How many adults does it take to like a theme or product before it qualifies as something that "can appeal to kids and adults alike"?

Edited September 6, 2017 by Aanchir