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Technic 2018 Set Discussion

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3 minutes ago, Huaojozu said:

If there is demand for an 800$ Falcon, I find it hard to believe there wouldn't be demand for an 800$ Technic set merging AFOL level insides with System outsides to produce the ultimate collectible model for car enthusiasts. 

You're probably right, and since the Falcon is still in high demand (still sold out everywhere) I can imagine that some experts @ Lego are thinking about such a set for Technic, or other themes...

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45 minutes ago, Huaojozu said:

If there is demand for an 800$ Falcon, I find it hard to believe there wouldn't be demand for an 800$ Technic set merging AFOL level insides with System outsides to produce the ultimate collectible model for car enthusiasts. 

Yea... I see it very different.  The SW and Technic markets are VERY different things.  Not even close.  I don't know the actual difference in sales, but I do know, that according to many, it was the SW line that saved TLG when it was failing in the early 2000s.  There are many out there that don't even consider Technic LEGO.  So.... apples and oranges here.  Not to mention your example of the MF is a great success because it is so visually appealing of a pop culture icon.   Which essentially what 42056 was.  A type of cultural icon that was huge, cool, expensive and visually appealing.  But that is not really what is it discussion here.  What is on discussion is TLG producing something huge and terrific like the Porsche, or the Bugatti, but with more functional aspects in mind than just the looks.  Bringing up an example of the new MF does nothing to the argument because its not like there are really any functional aspects of the MF that would be desirable to the group of Technic AFOLs that we are discussing......

 

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3 hours ago, nerdsforprez said:

How can it be when adult builders (MOCers) come up with absolutely brilliant models that blow LEGO builds out of the water?

AFOLs are expecting way too much of LEGO not as a building system, but as a business model.  LEGO's goal is to meet the demands of the global populace, not the esoteric few of an online forum with highly specific needs and desires.  When trying to sell something to many more than the esoteric few, there are many, many restrictions placed on the product in the eyes of the specialized.  Take away the restrictions of trying to meet pricing demands, demands of those under any licensing agreement, current LEGO mold/piece availability, etc.  and all sorts of possibilities exist.  Not sure why this is such hard concept to comprehend. 

Among those additional restrictions that AFOL models don't face, is ease of construction by the target audience. Most models we make are cool, but much harder to build than official sets. (I know this from making instructions of my own models, which results in much harder instructions than that of official sets, even when I would add more steps than I normally do.) Another restriction is that models absolutely must work out-of-the-box. AFOLs can cut corners where afunction is too slow, only works with full batteries, has a bit of slack in the system, isn't aligned fully, etc. Official models can't - they have to work when built by an 8-year-old.

And, from my personal oint of view, Technic sets are getting more complex then ever before (partly caused by all the new small parts of the last few years). The recent red and yellow axles prove this point, IMO. Apparently the complexication had to be balanced with better cueing in other places to prevent mass misbuilds among children.

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7 minutes ago, Erik Leppen said:

Among those additional restrictions that AFOL models don't face, is ease of construction by the target audience. Most models we make are cool, but much harder to build than official sets. (I know this from making instructions of my own models, which results in much harder instructions than that of official sets, even when I would add more steps than I normally do.) Another restriction is that models absolutely must work out-of-the-box. AFOLs can cut corners where afunction is too slow, only works with full batteries, has a bit of slack in the system, isn't aligned fully, etc. Official models can't - they have to work when built by an 8-year-old.

 

Great point.  And really, i think there are countless others. 

And for the record, I probably am too opinionated for this.  But really, not sure the reason for all the complaining all the time for sets.  Critiques of construction, color etc. is something different IMO and I complain about that stuff as well.  But complaining too much, or because perhaps every single technicality is not matched on models, like something isn't motorized, ackerman steering, etc. IMO kinda misses the boat.  Target population for MOCs produced by MOCers usually is a specific few, so making everything as realistic as possible is the goal b/c that is what is desired. 

For official sets, that is NOT the goal.  The goal is to reach as MANY as possible, which, includes those that are unaware or ignorant of the more technical aspects of models.  But..... to get the foot in the door TLG uses visual appeal to get their product out.  Perhaps not directly, but indirectly, this is a goal all AFOLs should want..... because it allows TLG to produce billions and billions of pieces; which makes our whole hobby possible.  If TLG didn't appeal to general masses, they would not sell X amount of sets, which necessitates the billions and billions of pieces.  Without the market where it is today, which makes a trillion-piece ocean to draw from.... I guarantee you that #3 red connector or what ever expensive piece you are lamenting you cannot afford to finish whatever MOC would be ALOT more expensive.  I know people don't want to hear this but the fact the TLG targets the global market and produces something that perhaps does not meet the needs of the esoteric few is a GOOD thing, something that all AFOLs, even if they are not aware of it, wants. 

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5 hours ago, Sarutaus said:

I don’t see what else there is to add. 8-speed gear boxes are cool but how different are they from 4-speed gear boxes.

But...these go to 11.  :wink:

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4 hours ago, allanp said:

And it's that type of thinking that lacks vision

 

Did you also read the second part I wrote? 

Also, ofcourse LEGO should improve their products! Which they do btw. But what I was getting at is that, as @nerdsforprez said, LEGO is making changes to their products not (solely) for the AFOL but especially to please their main/largest audience. That audience probably does not care so much for perfect steering geometry, 7 or 8 speed gearbox and so on. And for the people who 'need' those features that's easy enough to install afterwards, I mean that's the part that AFOL enjoy right? At least i do.. Oh well, maybe i'm easier to please :shrug_confused:

All in all I did not mean to upset anyone, i'm just glad I can enjoy this hobby and share it with other people. And if I like a model I might buy it, If I dont i'll leave it at the store. Not the end of the world :wink:

 

 

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OK, let me rephrase. My main point is that the reason why we haven't seen that ideal combination of great outside looks and technically interesting inside bits is that it would go severaly over budget of the current sets. Therefore, I suggest doubling the budget in order to achieve the aforementioned, and propose that the demand is there for such a set. 

You may disagree with me here, since we have no data to back up either position, but I believe the car enthusiast market is at the very least as big as the Star Wars market, likely with more spending power as well. I will concede that the intersection of people who like SW and LEGO, as opposed to cars and LEGO, may be larger for the former, but I don't think the difference would be big enough to make up for the spending power.

 

 

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It took a long time to get to the 800 euro price points with UCS sets. The previous 10179 Falcon didn´t sell well originally and was frequently discounted from its 500 euro price point. It´s clear that they are slowly incrementing the maximum price point and part count for technic models. 8 or 9 years ago the big flagships cost 150-180 euros and now we are pushing 270 with the 6x6. The ultimate series has gone from 300 to 370 in just 3 years of existence so they could well move to a 500 euro point in the future by incorporating more parts or PF. It won´t come overnight as buyers need to be prepared - look at those complaining about the 70 euro difference already or the price of 6x6.

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The complaints about 42070 aren't about the price. They are about the price-to-value ratio compared to other sets. I expect that most people would be fine with a 250-euro Technic set, as long as it is demonstrably better/larger than a 150-euro Technic set.

What's by the way also interesting, is how the part count rise seems to be something of the last 8 years or so. At least, for me, sets 8258 and 8421 (edit: and 8285) were when I started noticing that sets were growing and by the time 8110 came out, there was a clear upward trend. Before that, it seemed fairly constant.

Edit: if looking through the history, it seems to be rising as a consequence of studless as well. So I think it has always gone upward, but I only noticed it when the 1400-part record suddenly got broken.

Edited by Erik Leppen

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5 minutes ago, Erik Leppen said:

The complaints about 42070 aren't about the price. They are about the price-to-value ratio compared to other sets. I expect that most people would be fine with a 250-euro Technic set, as long as it is demonstrably better/larger than a 150-euro Technic set.

Exactly. 42070 is a great set, it's just too expensive. Luckily the prices this time around are a bit more realistic; i.e. 42081 - around £100, with a licence, nice concept and what looks like a good number of parts.

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My point is that Lego were testing the water with 42070 to reach a new price point for standard flagships. If they had done that with 42055, few would have complained due to the part count and weight. 42070 backfired but that won´t stop them trying the same with Ultimate sets as other large exclusive sets have no problem selling out if they are popular enough.

If we go back in time, the Unimog was the first 200 euro set and the biggest at the time - now there are second tier models like 42069 and 42054 with more parts selling for less money.

The Arocs might well be the last ever 200 euro flagship. In 7 or 8 years time, the Porsche may even seem cheap but they can´t raise prices overnight.

Edited by valenciaeric

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29 minutes ago, Timoonn said:

Arocs was 220e

The last 200e flagship is 42009.

Arocs was 200 euros in Germany and many other countries.

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Looking at 42081 again, I'm keen to see what the Volvo Autonomous Dumper(TM) is going to look like. There's a few curved/slanted panels in there, so I'm starting to see how a dump bed could be made. Judging from the existing models from Volvo and Komatsu, there's likely to be no cab, so it'll probably be a hopper on wheels. Sounds cool.

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42 minutes ago, Maaboo35 said:

Looking at 42081 again, I'm keen to see what the Volvo Autonomous Dumper(TM) is going to look like.

If the A model has an engine, then the B model will likely look like a regular dumper but in the same vein as a Case IH autonomous tractor (everything normal but no driver compartment)

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9 hours ago, Bartybum said:

If the A model has an engine, then the B model will likely look like a regular dumper but in the same vein as a Case IH autonomous tractor (everything normal but no driver compartment)

Existing autonomous dumpers from Volvo lack cabs, so it's likely.

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8 minutes ago, nicjasno said:

I am hyped for the new valves!

There's a lot here I'm hyped for. Roll on summer!

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On 2/6/2018 at 10:35 AM, nicjasno said:

I am hyped for the new valves!

Can you tell me where you heard about the new pneumatic valves? I am interested also.

Thanks

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35 minutes ago, Green Gecko said:

Can you tell me where you heard about the new pneumatic valves? I am interested also.

Thanks

You can find all the info in this topic, few pages back.
Also, there is no need to use bold text. Use plain text instead.

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3 hours ago, Milan said:

You can find all the info in this topic, few pages back.
Also, there is no need to use bold text. Use plain text instead.

ok thanks, i am new to this forum. i will use normal text

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5 hours ago, ctx1769 said:

I'm getting a metal hook for the 42082, I prefer that type.

Great idea, I wondered myself why they wouldn’t go a metal hook for a massive premium set like this.

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I don't know why they got rid of it, I have sourced 3 over the last couple of years last one was for 42009

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