[HELP] FWD with Transversely Mounted Engine and Gearbox

[AttentionSpanner]

Hi everyone, 

This will be my first project in a while, and my first project here. I want to try and make a 2WD (hopefully FWD, but RWD is fine if things get difficult), 4-cylinder car with a transversely mounted engine and gearbox assembly, and hopefully as a studless construction. I started mocking-up some of the gearbox in LDD (I know, not the best tool), and the results have not been too encouraging (space-wise).   I haven't yet figured how to post photos, but I will when I do

[Rudivdk]

You might wanna check out my current WIP, it has FWD, transversally mounted L4 engine and 5+R gearbox in front. Might not be exactly what you are aiming for (gearbox is not transverse), but it could help you getting started:

Space is always an issue with gearboxes in LEGO, but there is a solution for everything...

Edited August 21, 2017 by Rudivdk

[mocbuild101]

I can't really help you with your gearbox, but I can help you with this:

1 hour ago, AttentionSpanner said:

I haven't yet figured how to post photos

If you already have the photos on a file hosting site (Bricksafe is great for this), then it's just a matter of copy/ paste the URL of the photo - just make sure you resize it to meet the guidelines (800px wide).

Edited August 21, 2017 by mocbuild101

[AttentionSpanner]

On 8/21/2017 at 6:12 PM, Rudivdk said:

You might wanna check out my current WIP, it has FWD, transversally mounted L4 engine and 5+R gearbox in front. Might not be exactly what you are aiming for (gearbox is not transverse), but it could help you getting started:

Space is always an issue with gearboxes in LEGO, but there is a solution for everything...

Hi Rudivdk, 

Your family car looks great! Sometimes I'm glad people decide to stay away from the typical supercar layouts, with front/mid longitudinally mounted V8s and RWD/4WD. I am only now starting to understand that proper FWD is very difficult to achieve, however... Funnily enough, I was considering using Sheepo's McPherson as well, but for an FF layout I didn't know whether it would be the best... Ideally I'd want a 3L differential with the 16t spur gear instead of the 28t bevel (maybe that's for another thread, though). The other option would be to make everything as a studded construction (another possibility). I will try to post some pictures so you can get an idea of what my idea was. 

 

http://bricksafe.com/pages/AttentionSpanner/fwd-setup 

I'll try to find some way to include the selector assembly, as, up to this point, I haven't come up with any  great ideas. Also, I'd like to make everything a little more compact, and find a good place for the I4 fake engine, but the main issue would be the gear selector assembly. Now, I remember that someone had made a nice 8856 replica in studless without flex cables (which would be nice, but am trying to avoid for the gearbox), and I also remember Nathanael's Predator Supercar, with the great gearbox linkage, except I am not sure if it is going to work here, since the gearbox is both transverse and shifted on the vertical axis. Since I don't have the parts to build this in real life, this will involve a bit of trial and error, or might not even end up anywhere. So, feel free to try this out or even build something of a similar principal out of what you have, if you want to.

Any suggestions for improvements are more than welcome.

[Didumos69]

15 minutes ago, AttentionSpanner said:

You should at least secure (form-lock) the red assembly on top to the present frames with a vertically oriented beam or frame. This way the springs are likely to push that assembly off of the pins it is connected to.

[AttentionSpanner]

Just now, Didumos69 said:

You should at least secure (form-lock) the red assembly on top to the present frames with a vertically oriented beam or frame. This way the springs are likely to push that assembly off of the pins it is connected to.

Hi Didymos69!!! Thanks for taking the time to comment, it's truly an honor to have you here!!!

Yes, I haven't included everything in LDD yet, as it can get to be a bit of a struggle (I hate the program, but that's the only one I'm familiar enough with to use). I would be assuming 4 1x3 liftarms either side of the 5x11 frame connecting it to the top beam / strut tower bar would work.

Only issues I'm starting to get worried about are that I won't have too much room to mount the engine in between the strut towers without going up to a huge scale (I'm OK with using the 68.8x36 ZR wheels, but I'm dreaming of having the more-realistically-sized 62.4x20 combo (I said "dreaming" for a reason there...)). However, I won't know for sure until I build it, and, well, I don't even have the pieces (or the time) for that at this moment. I'll try to keep adding any new progress on the BrickSafe folder. I'll see what I can come up with considering your advice.

Again, thank you for offering some advice on this. I haven't even started, and the issue "realistic FWD" already seems scary... 

[AttentionSpanner]

Ok, I've just uploaded the latest LDD on Bricksafe, just realized I could do that, should have tried it earlier... Anyway..     Again, I do not know how often this thread will be updated, but you (yes, YOU) are welcome to experiment on the file with LDD, or even other programs I guess. The idea is to find a way to eventually make this a reasonably practical setup for use in MOCs (that's my vision for it, anyway)...

[Legotyres]

Just noticed this post and for anyone interested, I’ve finally managed to create a true FWD transverse MOC (front end chassis). I’m hoping to squeeze it into the front end of a Classic Mini or maybe a Golf Mk1 when time allows (it might be a while though as I’ve been messing with on and off for five years now)

It has a transversely mounted 6 speed sequential gearbox (R-N-1-2-3-4), fake 4 cylinder engine and differential. Steering with my own macpherson suspension. The gearbox selector allows you to access all gears via it from what will be the inside of the car. 
 

Be aware, it’s just a chassis, but thanks to the new Z20 and Z12 gears, the issues with friction with this type of gear box is gone. There are plenty of YouTube Clips and Shorts on my channel to which show some of the evolution over the last five years too.

As far as I’m aware, this it the very first true Front Wheel Drive Transverse MOC just like a rear car created out of none illegal lego building

YouTube clip of a genuine FWD transverse MOC

[2GodBDGlory]

37 minutes ago, Legotyres said:

Just noticed this post and for anyone interested, I’ve finally managed to create a true FWD transverse MOC (front end chassis). I’m hoping to squeeze it into the front end of a Classic Mini or maybe a Golf Mk1 when time allows (it might be a while though as I’ve been messing with on and off for five years now)

It has a transversely mounted 6 speed sequential gearbox (R-N-1-2-3-4), fake 4 cylinder engine and differential. Steering with my own macpherson suspension. The gearbox selector allows you to access all gears via it from what will be the inside of the car. 
 

Be aware, it’s just a chassis, but thanks to the new Z20 and Z12 gears, the issues with friction with this type of gear box is gone. There are plenty of YouTube Clips and Shorts on my channel to which show some of the evolution over the last five years too.

 As far as I’m aware, this it the very first true Front Wheel Drive Transverse MOC just like a rear car created out of none illegal lego building

YouTube clip of a genuine FWD transverse MOC

Nice work! True transverse drivetrains are certainly interesting to model, especially given how common they are in real life, and how rare they are in Technic! 

I'd be curious to see some more details about the gearbox, since anything with 6-speeds tends to be quite challenging to make! (Lately I've usually built 4x2 8-speeds and just ignored a couple gears)

[Legotyres]

1 hour ago, 2GodBDGlory said:

Nice work! True transverse drivetrains are certainly interesting to model, especially given how common they are in real life, and how rare they are in Technic! 

I'd be curious to see some more details about the gearbox, since anything with 6-speeds tends to be quite challenging to make! (Lately I've usually built 4x2 8-speeds and just ignored a couple gears)

Some of the gearbox came about by accident in truth. I’d made a few different four speed version and thought, I’d like to add a neutral and reverse like with Landrover. So I started with the black gearboxes were a few tests expecting to run with two selectors. But, then I thought I’d try and see if one selector would work. I had work out that the rotation had run the opposite direction plus include a stepper and once I figured that out, things just seemed to drop into place. I'm really happy that 1st and reverse are identical ratio's too. This was by chance though and not by design.  If you look at one of the shorts that says instruction, I’ve added a step by step photo. There is a couple of mistakes in there though, so check all the photo first before building, but most of the shorts show how it evolved and should give all the clues you should need to make your own. I’ve even included a simple (orange sequential) selector just showing the rotation

I'll put some more videos up once the new green clutch z20 gears arrive (already ordered from Lego)

1 hour ago, 2GodBDGlory said:

I'd be curious to see some more details about the gearbox, since anything with 6-speeds tends to be quite challenging to make! (Lately I've usually built 4x2 8-speeds and just ignored a couple gears)

That’s how my last gearbox started and knew that option had a neutral and reverse in it

 

i think the reason there isn’t more 6 speed gearbox of this nature is the friction which the new Z12 and Z20 gears remove

Edited February 6, 2023 by Legotyres