Aventador2004 Posted October 2, 2017 39 minutes ago, Jim said: (Undisclosed group of selected professionals ). Hopefully not competing members? This will hopefully allow some good contestants, who get little votes, have a chance. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aminnich Posted October 2, 2017 Oh no, this is starting to look like the last US election, the popular vote will have nothing to do with the outcome.. Nah, I'm just playing, this shows like a much better idea. A lot of people just vote on appearance and not functionality. Good idea Jim! I hope your holiday was nice. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aventador2004 Posted October 2, 2017 Just now, aminnich said: Oh no, this is starting to look like the last US election, the popular vote will have nothing to do with the outcome.. That is almost a good thing for minor-ish members like me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jim Posted October 2, 2017 Just now, Aventador2004 said: Hopefully not competing members? This will hopefully allow some good contestants, who get little votes, have a chance. Of course not. That would be weird. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aventador2004 Posted October 2, 2017 Just now, Jim said: Of course not. That would be weird. Never can be sure, someone could be biased to a member rather than other. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jim Posted October 2, 2017 Just now, aminnich said: A lot of people just vote on appearance and not functionality. Good idea Jim! I hope your holiday was nice. That is what was bothering myself and @Milan. Holiday was very nice. Mostly sunny, with hardly any internet 4 minutes ago, Aventador2004 said: That is almost a good thing for minor-ish members like me. Minus the "almost" part Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Didumos69 Posted October 2, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Jim said: Hi, Back from my holiday, which means back online again. This is a message to inform you that voting will be a little bit different for this (and maybe future) contest. Voting will consist of a public part (members) and a jury part (undisclosed group of selected professionals ). More information will be disclosed in due time. The purpose of this voting scheme is to give people who build in the spirit of the contest a better chance to win (instead of high scores for things that simply look cool). Another benefit is that people are not able to calculate the winner beforehand. If the contest description leaves so much room for interpretation that you need an extra evaluation whether an entry is 'in the spirit' of the contest, then you should have been more clear about the spirit of the contest in the first place. The community has taken it's go at this contest and its room for interpretation is generally seen as something good. Besides that, I think you are underestimating the evaluation skills of members by insinuating they rather vote for things that look cool. Finally, if my entry is regarded as 'not in the spirit of' - which is guessing right now, since the 'spirit of the contest' is unclear to me - I would rather hear that directly. In that case I would simply withdraw. Edited October 2, 2017 by Didumos69 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aventador2004 Posted October 2, 2017 38 minutes ago, Jim said: @Milan Minus the "almost" part Oh yes, agreed. 9 minutes ago, Didumos69 said: Finally, if my entry is regarded as 'not in the spirit of' - which is guessing right now, since the 'spirit of the contest' is unclear to me - I would rather hear that directly. In that case I would simply withdraw. Your vehicle is semi wacky, Just without a actually wacky function. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Didumos69 Posted October 2, 2017 8 minutes ago, Aventador2004 said: Your vehicle is semi wacky, Just without a actually wacky function. That's what I mean; members are perfectly capable to value an entry against the contest description. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aventador2004 Posted October 2, 2017 Just now, Didumos69 said: That's what I mean; members are perfectly capable to value an entry against the contest description. Yes, and you can see what is wacky and what isn't by seeing many opinions on comments. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jim Posted October 2, 2017 10 minutes ago, Didumos69 said: That's what I mean; members are perfectly capable to value an entry against the contest description. Then you have nothing to worry about Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MangaNOID Posted October 2, 2017 2 hours ago, Jim said: Voting will consist of a public part (members) and a jury part (undisclosed group of selected professionals. Perhaps to be fair to all, the professional votes could be collected before public voting. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Didumos69 Posted October 2, 2017 39 minutes ago, Jim said: Then you have nothing to worry about And you have no reason to introduce a jury. But seriously, you're not responding to my arguments. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jim Posted October 2, 2017 Just now, Didumos69 said: And you have no reason to introduce a jury. But seriously, you're not responding to my arguments. Sorry, I'm still thinking about my sunny holiday with hardly any internet I will get back to you tomorrow, when I have consulted some wise men. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MegaRoi Posted October 2, 2017 4 hours ago, Didumos69 said: Finally, if my entry is regarded as 'not in the spirit of' - which is guessing right now, since the 'spirit of the contest' is unclear to me - I would rather hear that directly. In that case I would simply withdraw. Why you're guessing your entry could be 'not in the spirit'? Contest theme is Wacky Wheels. It could mean the original racing game or the TV show, that's a wide range. It can start by a simple Race Cart, a modded 42048, or a goldfishglas on wheels, you decide. So the spirit of this contest is having fun and build some wacky, that's it. i really can't believe not having fun building your fire ant. If someone else thinks, your entry is wacky or not is a different thing. That's the spirit of a contest. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BrickbyBrickTechnic Posted October 2, 2017 7 hours ago, Jim said: Voting will consist of a public part (members) and a jury part (undisclosed group of selected professionals ). More information will be disclosed in due time. I personally think this is a good idea, though only if the voting results and the jury's say are in an appropriate balance. Or else, it wouldn't make sense to vote at all, and this would just be a Rebrick contest that's not run by LEGO (kind of like their "like" function. It's there, but does nothing to benefit.) That being said, it can't be 50/50 (votes/judging). The votes would need to be a majority consideration. Just my opinion. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MangaNOID Posted October 3, 2017 (edited) 10 hours ago, MangaNOID said: Perhaps to be fair to all, the professional votes could be collected before public voting. actually I would like to clarify my comment as I wrote it late last night when very tired. I mean jury votes to be received but not known to the public voters to sway public opinion. I'm actually liking the Idea too, but maybe they could be separate categories i.e public vote winner, jury vote winner. just my opinion. happy to go along with anything really as its all good fun! EDIT: maybe all voting could be silent? ...to many ideas... i'll be silent now. Edited October 3, 2017 by MangaNOID Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
offroadcreations Posted October 3, 2017 5 hours ago, BrickbyBrickTechnic said: Voting will consist of a public part (members) and a jury part (undisclosed group of selected professionals ). More information will be disclosed in due time. I am very open to this idea of trying something new. I think it will be nice to have a change this contest. I don't have concerns to voice, except echo what @BrickbyBrickTechnic said: 5 hours ago, BrickbyBrickTechnic said: I personally think this is a good idea, though only if the voting results and the jury's say are in an appropriate balance. Or else, it wouldn't make sense to vote at all, and this would just be a Rebrick contest that's not run by LEGO (kind of like their "like" function. It's there, but does nothing to benefit.) As long as there is still a large say of the members, and the jury isn't biased, this voting system should be fine IMO. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jim Posted October 3, 2017 Here's the verdict. We (@Milan, @Blakbird and myself) have acknowledged that at first thought it might seem unfair to change the voting mechanism during. However, we are not changing the voting criteria. Changing the voting criteria would have basically be the same as changing the contest. Since we are judging by the same criteria, there's absolutely no reason to think it's unfair. The voting criteria are: Originality & Wackiness. Looks (shape, color scheme etc). Quality of the build. Functionality. 15 hours ago, Didumos69 said: If the contest description leaves so much room for interpretation that you need an extra evaluation whether an entry is 'in the spirit' of the contest, then you should have been more clear about the spirit of the contest in the first place. Every contest leaves room for interpretation, but the basic idea should be clear. That's the case in this contest too....build a Wacky Vehicle. It's up to you to fill in the details. 15 hours ago, Didumos69 said: The community has taken it's go at this contest and its room for interpretation is generally seen as something good. There is still room for interpretation, but the voting criteria are clear. 15 hours ago, Didumos69 said: Besides that, I think you are underestimating the evaluation skills of members by insinuating they rather vote for things that look cool. We are not underestimating the members who are frequently visiting the Technic forum. We are underestimating the members who only come to the forum to vote. 15 hours ago, Didumos69 said: Finally, if my entry is regarded as 'not in the spirit of' - which is guessing right now, since the 'spirit of the contest' is unclear to me - I would rather hear that directly. In that case I would simply withdraw. The spirit of the contest should be perfectly clear. Build a Wacky Vehicle and wacky means: "funny or amusing in a slightly odd or peculiar way." 4 hours ago, MangaNOID said: I'm actually liking the Idea too, but maybe they could be separate categories i.e public vote winner, jury vote winner. We have thought about this and we might try this in a future contest. We already stated that the Top-3 will win prizes, so it seems unfair to change that at this point. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jim Posted October 3, 2017 9 hours ago, BrickbyBrickTechnic said: That being said, it can't be 50/50 (votes/judging). The votes would need to be a majority consideration. We have also thought about this and I think we are on the same page We will definitely not dominate the voting. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Superkoala Posted October 3, 2017 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Jim said: We have also thought about it and I think we are on the same page @Jim, a question. Will judges have to "argue" about their choice/attribution of point per criteria? (in public or between theim) Edited October 3, 2017 by Superkoala Grammar correction Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Didumos69 Posted October 3, 2017 (edited) 11 hours ago, MegaRoi said: Why you're guessing your entry could be 'not in the spirit'? Because I got the impression that there is a difference between entries that simply fit the contest and entries that are 'in spirit of' the contest. @Jim, this already sounds a lot better. I think my main issue with your initial post about introducing a jury is that it sounds like you felt the need to push the contest - or at least the outcomes - in a certain direction: 18 hours ago, Jim said: The purpose of this voting scheme is to give people who build in the spirit of the contest a better chance to win Together with your post in @Doug72's entry topic - a very original piece of work btw - I got the strong feeling that 'the spirit of the contest' is something different from the contest description / guidelines / rules. On 26-9-2017 at 12:10 PM, Jim said: Yes, yes...YES!! This is what I'm talkin about! The fact that the jury would be an undisclosed group made that feeling even stronger. 18 hours ago, Jim said: undisclosed group of selected professionals Al together this doesn't feel right to me. It doesn't feel 'unbiased'. It;s a bit strange that you - as a moderator - are not allowed to vote, but are allowed to install a jury along the way to influence the outcome. Don't get me wrong, I'm not opposed to having a jury in this kind of contests in general. I'm having an issue with the explanation that is given. If the verdict is that there will be a jury, then I would appreciate it if the jury members would be made public (in advance) and their votes too (afterwards). That would take out all the doubt and would also fullfill the desire expressed by several in this discussion about 'unbiasedness'. It is also quite common to make the jury members and their votes known in these kind of hybrid voting setups. Edited October 3, 2017 by Didumos69 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jim Posted October 3, 2017 Just now, Didumos69 said: Together with your post in @Doug72's entry topic - a very original piece of work btw - I got the strong feeling that 'the spirit of the contest' is something different from the contest description / guidelines / rules. Care to elaborate on this point? I really love Doug's entry and it's 100% in the spirit of the contest, since it definitely is a wacky vehicle. How is the contest description different? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
doug72 Posted October 3, 2017 I feel the contest title sets the tone i.e. Wacky Wheels. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Superkoala Posted October 3, 2017 (edited) On this contest every people participating had his own interpretation of the subject. Doug72 made litterally wacky wheels, I made a ludicrous vehicle, other made "function to gain an advantage". In my opinion nobody's wrong or outside the spirit. If we really need to speak about the "spirit" of the/a/any contest, there is many other point we can argue about. Use digital building then just order the good parts seems unfair in regard of those who have few parts and have to dismantle their own MOC/models to built something the best they can. Using the discussion topic to ask everybody on the forum what would be the best improvment instead of creating model from A to Z looks like just a way to please the maximum of people. Do i care about that? No. Nobody cares. Contests are for fun. Edited October 3, 2017 by Superkoala Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
