[VIDEO REVIEW] TrixBrix: custom LEGO-compatible train tracks

[Sariel]

Here's my extensive review of just a few of the many custom LEGO-compatible train tracks made by TrixBrix (www.trixbrix.eu). I especially like the incline supports: 

 

[Younge]

Aren't these the guys who ripped off 4DBrix designs?

I know you probably got free samples to review, @Sariel, so it may make no difference to you, but I think this needs to be taken into account if you are going to post a review on EB.

[Sariel]

I don't know, I don't follow EB that much, and I'm happy to review 4DBrix products as well.

[Tcm0]

They stole the modular switch idea from 4dbrix.

[MAB]

Those inclines look pretty good, although I'm sure I've seen similar purist solutions using pillars and technic bricks with pins, although the incline is probably not as steep.

If those double switches are selling, I wonder if there is a market for new genuine lego ones. They could do with some new track packs (if they sell).

[LEGO Train 12 Volts]

Very cool video!

I like the hamster!

[jimim]

thanks for that video.  i just found TrixBrix today while searching for raised track ideas.  They appear to be made pretty good and the price is fair for the set.  Great video.  I like how you showed the curved raised section also.

 

Thanks!

 

[Toastie]

On ‎11‎.‎08‎.‎2017 at 10:15 AM, Tcm0 said:

They stole the modular switch idea from 4dbrix.

Dear All,

Sariels video is cool, no doubt. And nothing else should be expected from him! He is a genius in so many regards.

However, the issue raised by @Tcm0 (and many others elsewhere) is serious, from my perspective. A couple of google clicks and links will tell you that this is most probably the case: Good idea, copied, advertised, lets see what happens.

I do not want to start any discussion on who, when, what, not about IP, not about licenses. None what so ever. Eurobricks is simply not a place for this kind of crap. This is a place of honesty, sharing, dedication, learning, teaching. And believe me, I do know, when it comes to making money on whatever scale, all of these go down the toilet even faster than the speed of light.

I simply do not like to see this happen. And I know: The "it's unfair" phrase is so lame. However, this is Eurobricks and not any kind of "survival of the fittest regardless what it takes" kind of community.

IMHO that is.

Oh: I am not affiliated with 4DBrix. I don't know these people, I haven't the faintest idea what the do for a living. Not the point. The point is: Don't copy ideas and sell them as they were you own. It stinks.

Best regards,
Thorsten    

[zephyr1934]

Probably the first person to sell custom and modular lego switches was doing so ca 2004. Ondrew's brickshelf gallery shows modular switches, modular single crossovers, a double crossover that predates the lego design, three way switches, and switch stands moved to the opposite side of the track. Of course all of this was hand cut 9v pieces, but those were the days before 3D printing. Looking through the selections from both 4D and Trix, I see no pure duplicates. While there are a lot of functionally equivalent parts on the two sites, both have some interesting unique offerings not found on the other. Like Ondrew's work 15 yrs ago, most of the offerings strike me as obvious extensions of the limitations inherent with the 4-6 different track elements available from lego. Where there is duplication I suspect 4D and Trix will each have a slight advantage in their respective home postal system, and that is probably good for customers all around. Given the variety of unique elements that each one is producing, it is also good for customers to have two different hubs of innovation.

@Toastie, I have not been keeping up on all of the new track designs coming from so many new producers, and when I did a quick google on 4D + Trix I only found reviews. So if there is strong evidence of copying one from the other, I am not aware of it and apologies for my ignorance.

 

 

[Toastie]

1 hour ago, zephyr1934 said:

@Toastie, I have not been keeping up on all of the new track designs coming from so many new producers, and when I did a quick google on 4D + Trix I only found reviews. So if there is strong evidence of copying one from the other, I am not aware of it and apologies for my ignorance.

Oh, I have not followed anything to that depth! I am pretty sure that you are right. There was a thread on EB on this issue raised by 4D - and I must say, I am having the impression that there was at least something going on. However, I also said that regardless what you "invent", post, show, demonstrate, help others, do it for your own, which is very closely related to what TLC is manufacturing - publicly, without IP secured (and nobody capable of adding 1 and 1 together would do so - there is not the faintest chance to get that pulled-off when TLC is watching), there will be clones, copies, varieties, off-springs ... and then it gets delicate.

The 4D/Trix thing was just extensively discussed here on EB. That is why I commented maybe a little too harsh. Quality and being ahead will win. Provided there is a timelag between having the idea, making stuff and showing it. Because then the situation is much clearer. When somebody is discussing progress on manufacturing publicly ... well: I believe in mankind. But it is not the other way around. And: When competition is open and fair: Best way to go. See all the open source software out there.

Otherwise I do share your analysis results entirely.

And: "Ignorance" together with "zephyr1934" don't make sense at all!

Best
Thorsten

     

[zephyr1934]

Oh, I could tell you about my ignorance, but I don't know how... (grin)

Looking at the two lines of products, I wouldn't be surprised if TrixBrix were working on their tracks independently and then perhaps rushed to market. This sort of thing happened before, BBB was about to release his aborted track system the same time ME came out with their wide radius curves. Trix's modular switches look to essentially be Ondrew's design. There are definitely some major design differences between the two systems, in particular the throws. The single crossovers are also different in design, Trix being 5 part to 4D's 4 part. That suggests that Trix was at least working on their own switches. Again, there may be more going on than I can pick up, but there is at least a shadow of a doubt. I see 4D's line as really shining in the automation department. They have a lot of unique items for remote control that look to be a modern take on the 12v system (good luck with the decoupler, grin, even Lego couldn't get it to work well). Regardless, I can't imagine anyone going in to the custom lego part business to get rich.

[zephyr1934]

Okay, I've done more digging and remembered one more thing. There was a third player in the BBB, ME wide radius curve round a few years back, Steve B was also working on a design of his own but never came to market. I think he wound up giving his idea for 9v rails to ME.

Digging through archives, it looks like the current round new track geometry on EB started in Sept 2016 with BrickTracks (BT) proposing a massive PF & 9v system on kickstarter, that ultimately was not funded. About the same time 4D bricks appeared on EB with new Monorail tracks. Following the link, it looks like 4D started with automation for standard switches on youtube in summer 2016, then monorail in Aug, layout and automation software in Nov, and the double crossover in Mar 2017. But that wasn't the first custom track from 4D, Dec 2016 4D posted about the availability of new narrow gauge track. That thread had coaster from BT sharing tips and ideas with 4D. When designers work together like that, we all win.

Trix first shows up on the radar in Nov 2016 sharing an array of 3D printed track components he (she?) had been working on and cited the interest in the BT kickstarter campaign as the inspiration for sharing. The collection includes a double crossover, stub switches, short track, etc. So I would say my suspicions were correct here, that Trix was working on these for some time. The examples shown had very few cross ties and so looked more like blue era rails than PF. Trix does not appear to introduce a modular double crossover until July 2017, after 4D, but the necessary stub switches were already in the Trix line up and Trix already had a "few tie" two piece double crossover (watch the youtube video in Trix's EB thread). So it is certainly possible that Trix did lift some ideas from 4D, including making the double crossover modular and adding ties for aesthetic appeal... but I'm not sure a modular double crossover is that much help compared to a two piece double crossover beyond keeping production costs down. The 4D system benefits from modularity because you can choose where to put the switch throws, the Trix design puts them on the inside but shortens the throw to only 4 studs rather than the 6 of normal lego design that is preserved in 4D (which, presumably they need for the automation components). On the flip side, the above thread has Trix producing narrow gauge components before 4D was. To me all of these ideas seem like obvious extensions so having several independent inventions seems feasible.

Again, it is my hope that the various producers collaborate or at least keep it to friendly competition. I certainly don't want anyone with a good idea for the community get a bad reputation. And I especially don't like it when someone actually earns a bad reputation.

[ColletArrow]

Well researched and said, @zephyr1934. I was aware of the various designers involved, but hadn't pinned it all on a timeline as you have clearly taken the time to do. 

I would prefer to think the two developers had come up with similar ideas independently and simultaneously, leading to some confusion when both projects were published. I can't see why anyone would try to copy and compete with anybody in this fairly niche market.

[daoudbazaar]

For your investigation, you may have forget 3d files on Thingiverse, pictures of afol that cut and stick old lego points on brickshelf, etc..

It takes a very long time to design, print, test, correct, improve print and finally publish. I find it too easy for others to slander and they deserve the first rank for stupidity

Working on patent and IP is a serious profession, you know.

For your records, I'm working (on my own and for friends only) on this for months.

I mean the industrial track, not the provencale tablecloth. I've also designed a 3XL wheel (49,6 mm blind) for a german S2/6, mast for catenary, etc..

And for those IP ayatollahs who blam and accuse without knowing, I got inspiration from Maerklin and Tillg models for the design.

I don't know if others have done similar things

[zephyr1934]

Hi daoudbazaar,

First of all wow, those are some nice looking track parts. Lots of great new options there. Probably best in separate thread rather than here (and I would suggest that you do post a more in depth presentation of your new track components). However, your post does raise some relevant points worth mentioning here.

Generally, there is no reason whatsoever why you should ever ask permission of anyone on this form to build something. In fact, that is part of the role of this forum is to share ideas and use ideas that were shared with you. If anyone has something top secret, well, they shouldn't be posting here. Everyone on this forum knows just how much effort goes in to creating something so no need to worry about that either.

Similarly, if someone posts a design on thingverse or anywhere else, the are posting it subject to whatever specified terms. Presumably they expect people will use the information or designs for their own personal use.

Probably one of the best ways to piss off the community is when one person takes someone's design and then tries to resell it as their own work (e.g., on ebay). This misappropriation is most commonly seen with instructions, but sometimes simply reverse engineering of designs. I think that was what @Younge was implying, but I don't know for sure, hence, my qualifying my previous notes with the fact that I was not aware of any evidence but that does not mean there is no evidence (and for that matter, I am no judge, I was simply justifying why I posted in case there is something big that I did/do not know of). It sounds like 4D announced a Kickstarter for a modular crossover, and then a few months later Trix announced the release of a modular crossover. If that is all one saw, it certainly would appear that Trix jumped in trying to undercut 4D's effort. It is only with extensive digging that it turns out that Trix did have a double crossover long before. It is certainly possible that Trix decided to add more ties to their own design inspired by 4D, but it is equally possible that they decided to do so based on the standard Lego track design (e.g., the official double crossover). Certainly in Trix's thread there was talk about difficulty getting the studs the right size so that they would both fit bricks on top and have clutch (a very fine tolerance). See my closing paragraph in my last post of this thread for my sentiment.

Again, please do post a more in depth presentation of your new track components in a new thread, and it would be neat if you could show them in context too in a layout and with rollingstock