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8 hours ago, mediumsnowman said:

In which case Ari most likely would have  claimed as soon as the lynch train started rolling his way. 

Claiming just means the scum would kill me instead, there's not much point in that. If we're going to kill ourselves, we might as well just do it, at least something might be gained by it. And no, I'm not a vig, but I am something helpful to the town and was witnessed doing it successfully, which means I can't be a killer or anything negative or they would have found a way to get that info out. Instead, for the sake of the town, I do not want that person coming forward to try to stop this, or we just lose 2 roles when the town still decides that "killing anyone is a move forward" as they already have.

It's still funny that 2 of the main instigators of this bandwagon have admitted privately that they don't believe in it, but hey, we're getting things done, right, town? Always a brilliant plan to take the word of someone with one "result" and no way to verify it, or the people they are claiming it to. Makes perfect sense. Carry on.

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I spend one evening offline and everything blows up! 

I feel like Ms. Clutch is telling the truth here, although at this point we've already achieved the lynch. Her posts don't seem all the different from how whitefang's posts are usually worded so:

Vote: Ari Nougat (Shadows) 

Also, good point @Tariq j about the jailkeeper, that explanation definitely makes more sense than some other suggestions in the context of this game's size. 

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Geez oh geez, maybe we have some stuff to discuss tomorrow... I'm a little less sure about this vote the more I think about it.

Mr. Nouget's lackluster defense is not what convinces me otherwise. I don't know why he wouldn't reveal things to the town - and before anyone accuses me of wanting him to out the power role that could clear him (I'm not suggesting that, don't do that), I'm just suggesting he could and should tell someone what his power role is, if he indeed has one. That way the scum can't claim it later, and if he flips town tomorrow we'll know he was telling the truth and anyone else would be a liar. Hopefully he has confided it in someone he trusts. He also refused, in private, to postulate about what the two investigators meant, because he doesn't "trust me" - which is fine. But he may as well postulate in public what it means: he's an experienced member of the studio, so his break down of what this could mean could be useful, and we won't be able to get it out of him once he's dead. Vaguely claiming a role but not offering any sort of thoughts to try to parse out tomorrow is a pretty classic scum sinking tactic.

What gives me serious pause is the second investigator claim, which I guess I didn't fully think out a few hours ago, being a bit tired. Why would a scum (be it William or his source) come forth that late with an a conflicting report if Ari is so close to being lynched? It's almost unheard of for scum to put themselves in the firing line so early in the game to try to protect each other. Not impossible, I guess, but still strange - if Ari flips Burapamount tomorrow we'd get two of them for the price of one... which leads me to believe that the most likely possibility is that William was contacted by someone in the town...

What do you think, Ms. Clutch. How are you so sure your source isn't misleading you?

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47 minutes ago, Zepher said:

Geez oh geez, maybe we have some stuff to discuss tomorrow... I'm a little less sure about this vote the more I think about it.

Mr. Nouget's lackluster defense is not what convinces me otherwise. I don't know why he wouldn't reveal things to the town - and before anyone accuses me of wanting him to out the power role that could clear him (I'm not suggesting that, don't do that), I'm just suggesting he could and should tell someone what his power role is, if he indeed has one. That way the scum can't claim it later, and if he flips town tomorrow we'll know he was telling the truth and anyone else would be a liar. Hopefully he has confided it in someone he trusts. He also refused, in private, to postulate about what the two investigators meant, because he doesn't "trust me" - which is fine. But he may as well postulate in public what it means: he's an experienced member of the studio, so his break down of what this could mean could be useful, and we won't be able to get it out of him once he's dead. Vaguely claiming a role but not offering any sort of thoughts to try to parse out tomorrow is a pretty classic scum sinking tactic.

What gives me serious pause is the second investigator claim, which I guess I didn't fully think out a few hours ago, being a bit tired. Why would a scum (be it William or his source) come forth that late with an a conflicting report if Ari is so close to being lynched? It's almost unheard of for scum to put themselves in the firing line so early in the game to try to protect each other. Not impossible, I guess, but still strange - if Ari flips Burapamount tomorrow we'd get two of them for the price of one... which leads me to believe that the most likely possibility is that William was contacted by someone in the town...

What do you think, Ms. Clutch. How are you so sure your source isn't misleading you?

You're so scummy. 

 

What makes you think he's already not claimed in private? Just cuz he didn't talk to you doesn't mean he's not talked at all. What's funny is that if I'd revealed my info before the bandwagon started, you'd have all listened to me instead. Literally, this bandwagon formed so quickly which should bother some of ya. 

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7 minutes ago, jluck said:

Literally, this bandwagon formed so quickly which should bother some of ya. 

Bandwagons almost always form quickly when there's a positive cop result to test.

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If Clutch is lying she will be lynched tommorow, and she knows that. I also think we need a lynch today so I will 

Vote: Ari Nougat (Shadows)

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1 hour ago, jluck said:

You're so scummy. 

 

What makes you think he's already not claimed in private? Just cuz he didn't talk to you doesn't mean he's not talked at all. What's funny is that if I'd revealed my info before the bandwagon started, you'd have all listened to me instead. Literally, this bandwagon formed so quickly which should bother some of ya. 

Thanks for adding nothing to the conversation. What do you think of the two investigator claims?

To be perfectly frank I'm not even sure what you're claiming. Does your investigator have a different scum result we should be testing out? If no, then probably we'd still have to test out Ms. Clutch's claim...

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17 hours ago, mediumsnowman said:

So your source contacted you with a scum result on Ari? Interesting. I'm not asking you to reveal your source, because that would be dumb, but why would they contact you, especially as there has only been one opportunity for an investigation, meaning your source can't have cleared you before investigating Ari.

Unvote: Glenn Clutch (WhiteFang)

Vote: Ari Nougat (Shadows)

Glenn, could you please address this point I raised earlier? Why would the investigator choose to contact you, as they have no reason to trust you?

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57 minutes ago, Zepher said:

Thanks for adding nothing to the conversation. What do you think of the two investigator claims?

To be perfectly frank I'm not even sure what you're claiming. Does your investigator have a different scum result we should be testing out? If no, then probably we'd still have to test out Ms. Clutch's claim...

I know that I was told Ari is cleared from a source I choose to believe. If it's not true, I'll reveal my source quickly. I think there's a chance there's an insane investigator or some such gimmick. I also want to know why Glen was contacted by an investigator. 

2 hours ago, mediumsnowman said:

Bandwagons almost always form quickly when there's a positive cop result to test.

Also, ya you're completely right on this account. 

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Just now, jluck said:

I know that I was told Ari is cleared from a source I choose to believe. If it's not true, I'll reveal my source quickly. I think there's a chance there's an insane investigator or some such gimmick. I also want to know why Glen was contacted by an investigator. 

Also, ya you're completely right on this account. 

But even with your source revealing their contradictory results the best test is to vote Mr. Nouget - doubly so, in fact, because we can confirm one investigator that way and potentially catch a scum.

The only issue I still see is that your investigator is the one I inherently trust more, just because I can't imagine why a scum would lie so late into the day when the bandwagon was already a pretty sure deal. But unfortunately voting Nouget is still the best way to test them both.

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12 minutes ago, Zepher said:

The only issue I still see is that your investigator is the one I inherently trust more, just because I can't imagine why a scum would lie so late into the day when the bandwagon was already a pretty sure deal.

Supposing Ari had an important scum PR role, someone behind the scenes could be manipulating William in a last ditch effort to save their teammate. Then they kill William tonight in order to prevent him from revealing his source in the case that Ari gets lynched, which it looks like he will be. 

With this in mind I would recommend to William that he reveals his "source" to someone he trusts behind the scenes in case he dies tonight. Assuming of course he hadn't thought ahead and already done that. :classic: 

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And then on top of that we now have two "investigators" so to speak, which just causes more confusion and chaos for the town - exactly what the scum want. And if Ari really is Town and Will's source is telling the truth why didn't he say it in the thread? Why did this source go claiming to another player who could very well be scum. 

Will, when where you contacted by this source, before or after Mr Glenn made the claims about Ari?

One thing I forgot to mention, I did say it earlier but it may have got overlooked, so far we assume there is a town investigator and a Scum investigator, but what if it's only one person pretending to be both? 

Thats to say, a scum goon claims to Mr Glenn and says that Ari is scum, when Mr Glenn says this in the thread a couple of hours later, the same scum goon claims to William Plastic and says Mr Glenn is lying and that Ari is Town, so the rest of the town think there are two investigators.

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Just now, Tariq j said:

And then on top of that we now have two "investigators" so to speak, which just causes more confusion and chaos for the town - exactly what the scum want. And if Ari really is Town and Will's source is telling the truth why didn't he say it in the thread? Why did this source go claiming to another player who could very well be scum. 

Will, when where you contacted by this source, before or after Mr Glenn made the claims about Ari?

Before, actually before the day thread was posted. Also, my source speaking in thread would likely be a death warrant for him. 

16 minutes ago, mediumsnowman said:

Supposing Ari had an important scum PR role, someone behind the scenes could be manipulating William in a last ditch effort to save their teammate. Then they kill William tonight in order to prevent him from revealing his source in the case that Ari gets lynched, which it looks like he will be. 

With this in mind I would recommend to William that he reveals his "source" to someone he trusts behind the scenes in case he dies tonight. Assuming of course he hadn't thought ahead and already done that. :classic: 

I fully expect to die tonight, regardless of Ari's affiliation. If he's town then my knowledge is dangerous, if he's scum it'll protect their "source". I've taken appropriate measures to prepare. 

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48 minutes ago, mediumsnowman said:

Assuming of course he hadn't thought ahead and already done that. :classic: 

11 minutes ago, jluck said:

 I've taken appropriate measures to prepare. 

:thumbup:

 

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When I came to this town, I knew I could make my fortune here, and I did. Then Burpamount came along and started eating away at it. I was furious. I vowed to stop them before they could destroy us all. I went out last night to do just that, had some reasonable success, then ended up with the surprise of my life. I came home and found an envelope of pictures. So many pictures. Memories of good times that we don't need to get too specific about. I knew what it meant, I knew what I was about to become. I sat down with my last bottle of whiskey and drank myself to sleep.

When I woke up, the pictures were gone, and in their place, a note. It was from them. I knew it would be. "You work for us now." I laughed at how foolish they had been. You don't convert me on night 1, everyone knows I'm going to be investigated and discovered immediately. I am the most worthless night 1 conversion possible. They blew their best shot out of stupidity. They gave up a kill to make the most amateur move possible. If they had waited one night, they would have inherited a power role with connections to another, it would have been a disaster for the town.

I wasn't particularly surprised when the votes started coming in, nor was I going to try to stop it, I had no means to do so, they had screwed things up royally. You can't come back from that. I hadn't done anything suspicious on day 1 or during the night, I had nothing to defend, and no way to contradict a result that was absolutely true.

I'm going to finish this whiskey now and wait for my fate. When they make the movie of my life, be kind, I never asked for this.

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Current Vote Tally
11 votes for Ari Nougat (Shadows) - WhiteFang, Zepher, TinyPiesRUs, Kintobor, mediumsnowman, Tariq J, Bob, Lord Duvors, Rider Raider, Umbra-Manis, Khscarymovie4
1 vote for Glenn Clutch (WhiteFang) - Shadows
1 vote for Gopher (Zepher) - jluck

A majority (8/15) is needed to lynch a player. There are 4 hours left in the day.

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Why the devil would you help the town, as a scum? We now know the Scum have a recruit action, which is really vital information. Why would Ari betray the scum's best weapon to the Town? Either Ari and Glenn are scum who coordinated this as well as the no kill night 1 to make the town think there is a recruit when in reality there isn't, or Ari is being an incredibly poor sport. I don't think the second option is likely, as Shadows is an admin and a seasoned Mafia player, but the first option is incredibly far fetched. I don't like this.

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Welp, that does it. I've been fighting the wrong fight. 

Unvote: Gopher (zepher)

vote: ari (shadows)

For the record, this does not clarify everything. There are still 2 investigator claims out there and I know mine is still very possibly real. 

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Just now, jluck said:

Welp, that does it. I've been fighting the wrong fight. 

Unvote: Gopher (zepher)

vote: ari (shadows)

For the record, this does not clarify everything. There are still 2 investigator claims out there and I know mine is still very possibly real. 

You believe Mr. Nouget is scum but also that the source that told you he was town is right?

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19 minutes ago, Rider Raider said:

Why the devil would you help the town, as a scum? We now know the Scum have a recruit action, which is really vital information. Why would Ari betray the scum's best weapon to the Town? Either Ari and Glenn are scum who coordinated this as well as the no kill night 1 to make the town think there is a recruit when in reality there isn't, or Ari is being an incredibly poor sport. I don't think the second option is likely, as Shadows is an admin and a seasoned Mafia player, but the first option is incredibly far fetched. I don't like this.

Something is very very wrong here, and Rosamunde sums it up nicely. If Ari was actually recruited, his win condition would have changed accordingly and he would not under any circumstances have revealed that he was recruited. IIRC, power roles can't be recruited anyways. I call bluff meant to sow suspicion about a recruit and cast doubt on future "confirmed" townies. A ballsy play, but it doesn't hold up under closer inspection. 

If I can go meta for a minute, Shield v. Hydra had 16 players with 4 scum and an option to recruit a 5th. Though the town won, there was quite some discussion upon the conclusion if the recruit made the game too swingy. I doubt our beloved hosts would do something similar on the heels of that game unless there is some other mechanic to balance it, which is also a real possibility. I stand by my belief that Ari is working with Burpamount and trying to bluff a recruit to discredit future "cleared" townies.

Assuming Ari does flip scum, the path is clear: lynch Williams "source" tomorrow. 

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2 hours ago, jluck said:

I know that I was told Ari is cleared from a source I choose to believe. If it's not true, I'll reveal my source quickly. I think there's a chance there's an insane investigator or some such gimmick. I also want to know why Glen was contacted by an investigator. 

Is this a different source from the investigator? You never made it sound like your investigator cleared Ari before. Are you prepared to reveal this new source now?

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1 minute ago, TinyPiesRUs said:

Is this a different source from the investigator? You never made it sound like your investigator cleared Ari before. Are you prepared to reveal this new source now?

I think I can reveal this as it being public is important, particularly if I die. 

Ari was the investigator before he got flipped.  

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Just now, jluck said:

I think I can reveal this as it being public is important, particularly if I die. 

Ari was the investigator before he got flipped.  

*huh*

What a day. Where are my meds?

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13 minutes ago, jluck said:

I think I can reveal this as it being public is important, particularly if I die. 

Ari was the investigator before he got flipped.  

:wacko: Let's pretend for a moment Ari was recruited, which I've already given my thoughts on up above. If Ari is the cop, how could Glenn's source have investigated Ari? This is getting out of hand!

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Just now, mediumsnowman said:

:wacko: Let's pretend for a moment Ari was recruited, which I've already given my thoughts on up above. If Ari is the cop, how could Glenn's source have investigated Ari? This is getting out of hand!

 I was planning on being secretive about all of this but now I realize it's useless since Ari is scum.  I am the town watcher. Last night I watched Ari  and saw him perform an investigation.  I immediately reached out to him as I wanted to start the town block. That's how I know he was the investigator.  Unfortunately, he knows my role and thus the scum team does as well. That is why I am making it public. 

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