Brethren of the Brick Seas (BoBS) Intro Thread, Era II

[Capt Wolf]

3 hours ago, Legostone said:

MAESTRO is not speaking for Eslandola

Just emphasizing this point. MAESTRO is acting as a trade company, like the RNTC or WTC.  

[Darnok]

18 minutes ago, Capt Wolf said:

Just emphasizing this point. MAESTRO is acting as a trade company, like the RNTC or WTC.  

Organisations not identical to a state with actions not identical to those of the state? Who would have thought? The horror!

[Bodi]

4 hours ago, Legostone said:

MAESTRO is not speaking for Eslandola. They aren't claiming territory either. Merely protecting an old ally...

Included in the transferred 8000 DBs are the fees for the letter of Marques for the following vessels:

Tritao, class 7 (Legostone)
Cardinal's Shadow, class 6 (Legostone)
Cardinal II, class 6 (MAESTRO)
Peregrine, class 4 (Fuerte Unido)
AQAR, class 7 (Maxim I)
Beluga, class 5 (Maxim I)
La Mystique, class 3 (Maxim I)

I know Prio is in distress and has issued LoM, inviting people to help them on sea, but I'm also wondering if they'll refuse any help on land, for example a fort built and garrisoned by a couple of Oleander volunteers.

[Capt Wolf]

58 minutes ago, Bodi said:

I'm also wondering if they'll refuse any help on land, for example a fort built

The current state of Alexport defenses is being determined. NPC settlements are not as clearly defined as PC settlements. They were in a war, so it is logical that there are some existing defenses. What those are, and whether they expand them at all in the immediate future, will be clarified shortly.

[Bart]

10 hours ago, Maxim I said:

MAESTRO Declaration of Protection towards the nation of Romantica.

Since the very beginning of the Prio rebellion, the Mpya Stedor All-Encompassing Science Trade & Resources Organisation (MAESTRO) has been a partner of Romantica. Soldiers of MAESTRO fought back to back with the Prio soldiers, forging a strong future between MAESTRO and Romantica.

The bond between the two entities translated in a MAESTRO residence/embassy in Alexport and a Prio residence/embassy in Trador. Trade has flourished between the two.

Due the recent events around Prio, MAESTRO will once more fullfill its duties as loyal partner and send resources towards Prio.

Given the weak position of our partner, we would also like to inform that we hereby declare us being the protectors of Prio. Any imperial power preying on Prio or one of its subjects, will have to deal with MAESTRO as well.

As first step, Prio will receive a loan of 8000 db's with no determined payback date. This is to be used to rebuild a fleet and defensive structures.

 

Long live Romantica, long live MAESTRO!

 

July 11, 618 AE

General Samu 'Whitedragon'
Head of MAESTRO Military Operations & Defensive Structures (MAESTRO-MODS)

 

 

Wow, you are adding to the Prio treasury by 400% 
I find that kind of odd. 
The Grand Dutch of Prio now has more coin then the SeaRats who since the beginning of Bobs have only gathered 6000 db, (because no automated tax income) 

I think 8000 db's is enormously out of proportion. 

7 hours ago, Legostone said:

MAESTRO is not speaking for Eslandola. They aren't claiming territory either. Merely protecting an old ally...

Included in the transferred 8000 DBs are the fees for the letter of Marques for the following vessels:

Tritao, class 7 (Legostone)
Cardinal's Shadow, class 6 (Legostone)
Cardinal II, class 6 (MAESTRO)
Peregrine, class 4 (Fuerte Unido)
AQAR, class 7 (Maxim I)
Beluga, class 5 (Maxim I)
La Mystique, class 3 (Maxim I)

Now you also added 150% to the prio fleet. and spend another 700 db's on them 

2 hours ago, Bodi said:

I know Prio is in distress and has issued LoM, inviting people to help them on sea, but I'm also wondering if they'll refuse any help on land, for example a fort built and garrisoned by a couple of Oleander volunteers.

Game whise why wouldn't it be possible to buld a fort in a town? anyone can build anything anywhere is one of the starting points of bobs. some port s are closed of to foreign factions but by far the most are not.

1 hour ago, Capt Wolf said:

The current state of Alexport defenses is being determined. NPC settlements are not as clearly defined as PC settlements. They were in a war, so it is logical that there are some existing defenses. What those are, and whether they expand them at all in the immediate future, will be clarified shortly.

I find it odd, that this is changed behind the scenes, it smells an awefull lot like cheating. 

I did a thorough investigation into the Dutchy of Prio and Alexport, when this conflict started.
Alexport consists of 7 residences nothing more. (the bank holds a mere 200 db's) 
The Grand Dutchy of Prio doesn't have any other settlement, (the faction bank held 2000 db's)
It only had 6 ships (now 3)
Prio didn't have any mentioned allies in any of the threads where such information is listed. 

You can't just suddenly change the stats of Prio because that suits you, and make up some story of the old war of why they where there.

You may build/ moc and license things now though, plenty of cash from MAESTRO.

Bart

*Above is my personal opinion and may not reflect the opinion of all the Searats nor its towns nor its trade companies

Edited July 11, 2018 by Bart

[Darnok]

@Bart

Keep in mind that Prio is a NPC nation. In any RPG the NPCs are played by the gamemasters, and usually are played to suit the narrative the players come up with. As you correctly stated right now there is little to no balance in the situation between Prio and the Sea Rats, so some should be brought in. To achieve this in BotBS, Prio should get some "help from behind the scenes".

[Bart]

Just now, Drunknok said:

@Bart

Keep in mind that Prio is a NPC nation. In any RPG the NPCs are played by the gamemasters, and usually are played to suit the narrative the players come up with. As you correctly stated right now there is little to no balance in the situation between Prio and the Sea Rats, so some should be brought in. To achieve this in BotBS, Prio should get some "help from behind the scenes".

In my book that is: Changing the rules in your favour after the game has started = cheating. 

[Darnok]

Just now, Bart said:

In my book that is: Changing the rules in your favour after the game has started = cheating. 

I kind of agree, but for a RPG it is necessary. The alternative would be to remove NPCs (for BotBS: both nations and characters).

[Mesabi]

1 minute ago, Bart said:

Wow, you are adding to the Prio treasury by 400% 
I find that kind of odd. 
The Grand Dutch of Prio now has more coin then the SeaRats who since the beginning of Bobs have only gathered 6000 db, (because no automated tax income) 

I think 8000 db's is enormously out of proportion. 

I find this entire situation entirely hilarious, because it's entirely the Sea Rats's fault. You guys chose to turn the conflict into a big issue, and then held their ships. NPC nations are a force in this game, not simple playthings. 

Now MAESTRO, the most successful trading company is here to prop things up in Prio's favour. This is totally something @Maxim I can do. I'd do it if I had the funds. 

6 minutes ago, Bart said:

You can't just suddenly change the stats of Prio because that suits you, and make up some story of the old war of why they where there.

But.... have the stats of Prio ever really been defined? No one is ever really done a build revealing the stats of Prio, so they can still be defined. And it turns out you kicked the Hornet's nest.

13 minutes ago, Bart said:

I find it odd, that this is changed behind the scenes, it smells an awefull lot like cheating. 

@Bart we cannot define literally every NPC nation on the Brick Seas. No one has that kind of time, not even me. 

So, good luck guys. Enjoy being the bane of everyone who in the game who even has a slight grudge against the Sea Rats. 

 

 

[Bregir]

Bart.

The sea Rats are welcome to issue LoMs too.

NPC nations are not accurately reflected in the account sheets and builds, not having any players attached, but I assure you, we are taking balance into consideration here, and will invent no crazy changes out of nowhere.

The Maestro response is a player driven one, not a gm driven one, and hence perfectly reasonable.

The sea Rats can seek out friends and allies too, but you might suffer from never really having done much to make any friends. At least, Corrington's efforts in the past have been in vain, being utterly scorned since Jacob Nion disappeared in the middle of talks with Montoya. Since then, everything has been rejected.

That said, we as game masters will do what we can to balance out the game so that everyone can enjoy the game, and Maestro's actions may garner a response. Of course, we will not neutralise player input completely, but we may balance them out.

[Captain Genaro]

@Bart I would like to address some of your concerns. 

There are quite a few NPC nations and settlements, and fleshing each one of them out immediately would require a larger effort than we have the manpower for. As such, this is being handled largely through AMCRAs and as needed (e.g. Prio/SR conflict). Each faction is represented in this and can and will speak up if they feel that a NPC nation is being unfairly defined or their faction unfairly impacted. 

For NPC nations, the sheets do not reflect the nation's total power. Mardier, one of the most powerful factions in the old world, has zero troops, no forts, and a small fleet. The same, or similar, can be applied to every NPC nation. Once again, we do not have the manpower necessary to manage each nation's resources, to MOC new properties for new nations, etc. Players are welcome to support or work with NPCs. This also applies to the SRs. 

Note that we do not desire to defeat the SRs. We are not setting out to make things unfair or unbalanced. 

[Bart]

I've nothing against MAESTRO's actions, I just found them a bit out of proportions.

I do have something against the appearingly sudden changes of Prio stats, because all the time the stats where portrait as if they where correct in the account sheet and other informational pages. 

But I'm looking forward to the (most probably awesome) builds people will do for Prio.

12 minutes ago, Bregir said:

(...)

The sea Rats can seek out friends and allies too, but you might suffer from never really having done much to make any friends. At least, Corrington's efforts in the past have been in vain, being utterly scorned since Jacob Nion disappeared in the middle of talks with Montoya. Since then, everything has been rejected.

(...)

In all my time active I've not done nor seen done any Searat action against anyone else, so holding grudges because of old history might be a bit unfair. The rat's are the smallest faction, with even less active members then there are npc's whom most joined the game late, and might not even know the old history.

Edited July 11, 2018 by Bart

[Bregir]

Bart, you are welcome to try to change it :) But consider our side of it. We tried several times in the past. It has not worked. We have stopped trying and have had no indication of change.

So I am not saying it is impossible, but just that there is a reason we are not rushing to your side. And what else to base our position on but history?

So go ahead - make the sea Rats an active player on the diplomatic scene! I would love nothing more :)

[Bart]

10 minutes ago, Captain Genaro said:

@Bart I would like to address some of your concerns. 

There are quite a few NPC nations and settlements, and fleshing each one of them out immediately would require a larger effort than we have the manpower for. As such, this is being handled largely through AMCRAs and as needed (e.g. Prio/SR conflict). Each faction is represented in this and can and will speak up if they feel that a NPC nation is being unfairly defined or their faction unfairly impacted. 

For NPC nations, the sheets do not reflect the nation's total power. Mardier, one of the most powerful factions in the old world, has zero troops, no forts, and a small fleet. The same, or similar, can be applied to every NPC nation. Once again, we do not have the manpower necessary to manage each nation's resources, to MOC new properties for new nations, etc. Players are welcome to support or work with NPCs. This also applies to the SRs. 

Note that we do not desire to defeat the SRs. We are not setting out to make things unfair or unbalanced. 

I do not wish to speak foul about all the good work the game masters have done and are doing, I do appreciate it very much!!
But it would've been nice if it was more clear that NPC stats where most likely not correct or at least incomplete.

Edited July 11, 2018 by Bart

[MKJoshA]

1 hour ago, Mesabi said:

I find this entire situation entirely hilarious, because it's entirely the Sea Rats's fault. You guys chose to turn the conflict into a big issue, and then held their ships. NPC nations are a force in this game, not simple playthings.

The Sea Rats certainly claim responsibility for trying to play things out. But to say this is our fault is uncalled for. Prio got feisty. We asked them to pay DBs and it's gotten pretty out of hand from there. And why in the world are NPCs a driving force? In a game that proclaims to be all about building pirate MOCs out of Legos, that is contradictory.

1 hour ago, Bregir said:

NPC nations are not accurately reflected in the account sheets and builds, not having any players attached, but I assure you, we are taking balance into consideration here, and will invent no crazy changes out of nowhere.

 

Our problem is that the precedent is for crazy changes to come out of nowhere so we are reasonably worried about it happening again.

1 hour ago, Bregir said:

 

That said, we as game masters will do what we can to balance out the game so that everyone can enjoy the game, and Maestro's actions may garner a response. Of course, we will not neutralise player input completely, but we may balance them out.

 

This all depends on your definition of "everyone." So far the actions of the game masters has leaned heavily toward improving or advancing rules for traders. And only now, when people have a reason to want to attack Sea Rats, are the land combat rules being fleshed out. As a Sea Rat, that comes across as incredibly convenient for everyone not a Sea Rat.

 

1 hour ago, Captain Genaro said:

For NPC nations, the sheets do not reflect the nation's total power. Mardier, one of the most powerful factions in the old world, has zero troops, no forts, and a small fleet. The same, or similar, can be applied to every NPC nation. Once again, we do not have the manpower necessary to manage each nation's resources, to MOC new properties for new nations, etc. Players are welcome to support or work with NPCs. This also applies to the SRs. 

Note that we do not desire to defeat the SRs. We are not setting out to make things unfair or unbalanced. 

If the sheets don't show the nation's power then how is anyone supposed to play the game with them as an active force? Can we just come along and say we are buddies with the Moleki (spelling?) empire and that they have hundreds of ships sailing the seas right now? Where are the lines drawn?

Please know that I'm not trying to pick out any one game master. I know a lot of work is being put into this on the back end. But it comes across as though the game masters have been busy making sure traders can build their own little DB empires. The Sea Rats saw a chance to have fun with something more than just trade value calculation. The Sea Rats have had little to no help in being unique as a faction in what actions they can take. The only thing that has been done is to allow Black Flags which really just means all the other factions can be a Sea Rat. So rather than help the Sea Rats, the game masters have neutered them. So please understand why we are hesitant now that all the game masters are jumping on us saying we've poked a bear and have to live with the consequences.

[Bregir]

10 minutes ago, MKJoshA said:

So please understand why we are hesitant now that all the game masters are jumping on us saying we've poked a bear and have to live with the consequences. 

I do not think any game master has intentionally been giving this impression.

Of course, you will have to take the consequences, just like Prio, Maestro, and everyone else will of all their actions. That is the nature of the game. We (the NPC committee) try to make the NPC nations take reasonable reactions to PC actions. As CG said, let us know if what happens is unreasonable.

But do not expect a humongous warfleet coming out of nowhere, nor unknown settlements with 10 Royal fortresses popping out. As we have said above we are trying to be reasonable :)

But Alexport is the capital of a new nation that has won its independence from Mardier, so do expect some defences and troops.

And there might be other NPC reactions to Maestro's support... NPC nations and actors have interests too ;)

[gedren_y]

Wow! Even with my limited engagement in income building I have banked more than two thirds the amount of the Sea Rats' 'national' account balance.

[Capt Wolf]

38 minutes ago, MKJoshA said:

The Sea Rats certainly claim responsibility for trying to play things out. But to say this is our fault is uncalled for.

And I would agree. I wouldn't even say there's anything to be at fault about as far as playing a game goes (OOC).

39 minutes ago, MKJoshA said:

Prio got feisty. We asked them to pay DBs and it's gotten pretty out of hand from there.

Well, why should they pay DBs? And I wouldn't say things are out of hand. The situation didn't produce the quick result the SRs hoped for and is escalating. But the SRs have had plenty of success so far, and still have plenty of advantages.

I'll also add that Prio's reaction is determined by a leadership committee made up of reps from all the factions to decide NPC actions when called for, and there's been agreement on their response.

43 minutes ago, MKJoshA said:

And why in the world are NPCs a driving force?

They aren't. They're just reacting to PC actions. Why did Oleon make an alliance with Mardier? Why did Corrington care about some Mardier refugees? Why does ESL's MAESTRO care about Prio? In all cases, the players are the driving force, but the NPCs are part of the game.

45 minutes ago, MKJoshA said:

2 hours ago, Bregir said:

NPC nations are not accurately reflected in the account sheets and builds, not having any players attached, but I assure you, we are taking balance into consideration here, and will invent no crazy changes out of nowhere.

Our problem is that the precedent is for crazy changes to come out of nowhere so we are reasonably worried about it happening again.

Different leaders are determining NPC actions currently than before. Believe me, I absolutely don't want crazy changes to come out of nowhere.

47 minutes ago, MKJoshA said:

This all depends on your definition of "everyone." So far the actions of the game masters has leaned heavily toward improving or advancing rules for traders. And only now, when people have a reason to want to attack Sea Rats, are the land combat rules being fleshed out. As a Sea Rat, that comes across as incredibly convenient for everyone not a Sea Rat.

Actually, the raid rules are being pushed because we thought the SRs wanted to be able to raid settlements. We're trying to cater to your unique game needs. Traders don't raid settlements, but pirates do.

49 minutes ago, MKJoshA said:

If the sheets don't show the nation's power then how is anyone supposed to play the game with them as an active force?

Well, looking at context and game history helps. Prio has fought a war, on its own land, so that suggests some things (forts, troops) that haven't been spelled out. Relative size is another. It is certainly reasonable to expect Prio's forces to be smaller than any of the PC factions, and you may note that they've got a mere fraction of the ships of other factions. It's also reasonable to expect them to replace those ships when lost. And when in doubt, ask leadership. There's an NPC development group that is working on more details on all the NPCs. If we know one is going to come into play, we can prioritize work on that NPC.

55 minutes ago, MKJoshA said:

The Sea Rats have had little to no help in being unique as a faction in what actions they can take.

Getting harassing (looting) raids re-introduced is a priority toward that end. I am also working on an experiment with regard to other pirate activity. If it works, you'll be very happy. My point is, we're trying. If you have suggestions, tell us what you want.

[MKJoshA]

Thank you for all your responses. I think this information goes a long way to helping the Sea Rats understand the situation better. For the record, we aren't looking for a fast solution. We were hoping we'd get something a little more than DBs out of this. We just want it to be fair, not skewed against us.

1 hour ago, Capt Wolf said:

Actually, the raid rules are being pushed because we thought the SRs wanted to be able to raid settlements. We're trying to cater to your unique game needs. Traders don't raid settlements, but pirates do.

We do want to be able to raid settlements. It's just unfortunate that it's coming out when LoMs are being issued against us. It doesn't help the stigma that this game doesn't care about the Sea Rats. We're a quiet bunch and I know we have some blame because we haven't voiced our opinions as much. All I can ask for now is that the game masters allow the Sea Rats to be the rogue faction it was meant to be. Don't shoe-horn us into a check-box on a form.

[Bodi]

1 hour ago, MKJoshA said:

when LoMs are being issued against us

As someone said above, Bregir if I'm not mistaken, Searats can also issue LoMs, and I'm sure there are plenty of people who'd like to jump on the occasion to make a small fortune.

[MKJoshA]

8 hours ago, Captain Genaro said:

For NPC nations, the sheets do not reflect the nation's total power. Mardier, one of the most powerful factions in the old world, has zero troops, no forts, and a small fleet. The same, or similar, can be applied to every NPC nation. Once again, we do not have the manpower necessary to manage each nation's resources, to MOC new properties for new nations, etc. Players are welcome to support or work with NPCs. This also applies to the SRs. 

I compared Mardier's stats to Prio on the July Account sheet. Mardier has 49,477 DBs from the start of the month and Prio/Romanitca only has 2,268. Mardier has 12 ships, Prio has 6 (and I think 3 of those are gone now). So your illustration falls short. Mardier does look much more powerful than Prio. I hope Prio's invented stats will reflect this.

[Capt Wolf]

36 minutes ago, MKJoshA said:

I compared Mardier's stats to Prio on the July Account sheet. Mardier has 49,477 DBs from the start of the month and Prio/Romanitca only has 2,268.

That is in large part because Mardier was granted a large treasury when the ESL-MAR war began, plus I think 20,000 from Oleon at that time. Prio's account has only been accruing MRCA result funds for a few months. The DBs in their accounts are not a good measure of their comparative strength/size.

[Maxim I]

Don’t forget the 7 residences in Alexport are player built residences. It is like saying that Terelli is a small Hamlet just because only a few player made properties are there.

I do understand the confusion as most of us expect the account sheet to be as true/complete as possible. But we should not forget that it just shows the EGS developments. All 4 factions started with nothing but 3 warships (which doesn’t sound realistic, does it).

 

[Roadmonkeytj]

I

10 hours ago, Capt Wolf said:

Well, looking at context and game history helps. Prio has fought a war, on its own land, so that suggests some things (forts, troops) that haven't been spelled out. Relative size is another. It is certainly reasonable to expect Prio's forces to be smaller than any of the PC factions, and you may note that they've got a mere fraction of the ships of other factions. It's also reasonable to expect them to replace those ships when lost. And when in doubt, ask leadership. There's an NPC development group that is working on more details on all the NPCs. If we know one is going to come into play, we can prioritize work on that NPC.

All ooc : This is just my 2 cents for what its worth ... Mention my name at your favorite coffee shop and get a large coffee for full price.   

I look at it this was (mind you as a new player who just so happens to be a SR) I expect a npc to replace lost ships to maintain.   The way I saw prio was a small young nation with recent independence ie small navy small army (mostly revolutionarys) and very little in the way of funds as the Dutchery is a small nation with little to tax.  While I don't disagree. With their ability to replace ships being a necessity I see it this way ... I can't simply add new ships without the funds (as a new player I barely had enough to licence what I had ... Sure you can get loans but thats not the point here)  so say I loose a ship ... If I want it back I need to have the cash to replace it but as a player I need to build either a new ship or a small build for a sistership.  As a NPC a GM looks at the bank and poof a new ship appears in the summary.  While I understand Prio has been around longer I just feel that the NPC nations spawning ships should take 2 turns (instead of one to justify a players build time)

 

And Im not saying this just to gain an advantage as obviously prio now has allies.  I say this as a new player still trying to keep both feet on the deck as the waves come crashing over the rails

[Professor Thaum]

A very funny thread I was away for too long

I have just one little remark I just saw MAESTRO fueling Prio with 8000 Dbs to help them dealing with the rats...

Mwahahahahahahaha, spoilt rich brats !

Sorry @Maxim I you're largely out of proportion, the rats just asked for about 700 DBs to close the subject...

I think these 8000 are far too much... You poser with your dough.

I think we are up for an arms race, all that fuss for a trivial bar tab...