Scarilian

Future of constraction

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I understand the desire to see more constraction sets, but over time i've come to accept it as incredibly unlikely. The arguably toxic response from a majority of Bionicle fans mixed with the poor reception, sales and shelf-warming nature regarding the reboot (G2) has clearly disuaded Lego from focusing on constraction in the future. I would'nt be suprised if we do not see constraction as a seperate theme ever again, instead minor representations of characters from other themes seems the direction they are going.

Lego is also drifting more to mech's (Ninjago Movie), brick-built villains (Nexo Knights), giant brick figs (Giant Man, Ares) and vehicles (Lego Batman movie, The Billion Brick Race) Constraction may have a place in Lego's future, but at the moment they are trying to popularise the idea of the Lego figure and making constraction pieces for a singular or even two themes would still be counterproductive and add additional costs with minimal returns. As mentioned by ZORK64 above the general consensus is that people are shifting from constraction and CCBS with a limited number of specialised pieces to simply using normal Lego pieces with the fairly new mixel joints and the focus on new sets focused around creating action figure versions in Lego style are clearly trying to encourage this.

Why have a specific system for action figures when you can just create joints that work with regular Lego so people can make figures of their own with the normal Lego you already have in abundance?

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On 18/6/2017 at 1:44 PM, Scarilian said:

Why have a specific system for action figures when you can just create joints that work with regular Lego so people can make figures of their own with the normal Lego you already have in abundance?

Maybe because there's a lot of people out there (like me) who don't care at all about bricks, and only have fun building with constraction pieces? The market is a vast sea where everything can be possibile with the right set of decisions. LEGO handled terribly the reboot, its story and most of all its advertising strategies, trying to rely on older fans when the main target should have been the kids. Constracion is failing because since the mid-00's LEGO is focusing more and more on brick-based themes (because, well, they're mainly a brick-based toy manufacturer, I guess?), and the constraction area gets less money and more internal competition with each passing year.

 

So no, the problem is not constraction by itself, but the context it's put into. Constraction was big when LEGO was small, now that LEGO is big again they don't need constraction anymore: it's like in times of war, where a car factory begins to produce tanks and weapons.
BIONICLE was the tanks and missiles from LEGO's times of war, now that the company is at peace they went back producing their old beloved cars. That's it.

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I think it would be more helpful if LEGO would try to mix these two styles even further. They already went in the right direction with the aesthetic of CCBS, which works pretty good with brick-built designs.

Personally, I wouldn't have much of an issue with a fully brick-built Constraction Theme if LEGO would simply give us more stuff to work in that direction. And I mean not only the Mr. Freeze-Mech hands here (which I probably have mentioned in my past 5 posts here on EB or so), but also some other stuff, like, I dunno, heads or faces. I would love to be able to build something like characters from Mega Man, but giving these characters a proper face is pretty impossible if you build at the common action figure scale if you choose to remain purist.

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On 19/06/2017 at 6:57 PM, TwistLaw said:

Maybe because there's a lot of people out there (like me) who don't care at all about bricks, and only have fun building with constraction pieces

For such people you have technic and could easily expand the technic theme to include more joints via technic pieces.

Constraction was big before because it was primarily an off-shoot of technic - which gained increased sales when attached to a good story.

As i'll cover in my reply below, it's also difficult for them to branch off now from anything other than smooth humanoids.
 

4 hours ago, ZORK64 said:

They already went in the right direction with the aesthetic of CCBS, which works pretty good with brick-built designs.

CCBS at the moment is jumbled in regards to an aesthetic;

- Lots of smooth pieces (Sometimes printed) contributed by Hero Factory
- Lots of robot themed pieces contributed by Bionicle
- Lots of smooth pieces (Sometimes printed) contributed by Star Wars

They are doing 'ok' trying to blend the smooth pieces together for Star Wars, but that's removing a majority of what they made for Bionicle which is too specific to be used for anything else.

It's not a cost effective solution because if they vary from Star Wars humanoids then they only have the Bionicle aesthetic to fall back on in regards to pieces - unless they made more.

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On 18/06/2017 at 1:44 PM, Scarilian said:

Why have a specific system for action figures when you can just create joints that work with regular Lego so people can make figures of their own with the normal Lego you already have in abundance?

But such parts have already been there for years :

48171.png48169.t1.png 92013.t1.png57909.t1.png

Lego is not "drifting more to mech's, brick-built villains, giant brick figs and vehicles", they've already done these before (especially vehicles, they've done hundreds, if not thousands of vehicles before). Look at themes like Exo-Force, or Knights Kingdom. They had brick-built mechs and characters (and that was over ten years ago), but these themes certainly did not kill "traditional" constraction. Something changed, sure, but I don't think Lego is intentionally trying to "dilute" possible constraction sets (or let's say, more generally, articulated figures) into the system-based themes they currently have, at least not much more than they did before.

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On 7.7.2017 at 8:11 PM, Scarilian said:

CCBS at the moment is jumbled in regards to an aesthetic;


- Lots of smooth pieces (Sometimes printed) contributed by Hero Factory
- Lots of robot themed pieces contributed by Bionicle
- Lots of smooth pieces (Sometimes printed) contributed by Star Wars

They are doing 'ok' trying to blend the smooth pieces together for Star Wars, but that's removing a majority of what they made for Bionicle which is too specific to be used for anything else.

It's not a cost effective solution because if they vary from Star Wars humanoids then they only have the Bionicle aesthetic to fall back on in regards to pieces - unless they made more.

I'd say the variety of these pieces help to blend these three themes together, especially since the SW shells work generally fine with the HF ones, except they are occasionally much bigger due to the difference in scale between SW Constraction and LEGO's other Constraction themes. That being said, SW Constraction already introduced a handful of new pieces, so I don't see why TLG should need to fall back on the Bionicle aesthetic.

Furthermore, most of the robot themed pieces of G2 Bionicle aren't as greebly as the ones from G1, so as far as MOCing is concerned, all of these three themes work relatively well with each other (btw, you forgot to mention the Chima Constraction sets here, which added a few fantasy-themed elements to the sortiment).

 

On 7.7.2017 at 11:26 PM, Leewan said:

But such parts have already been there for years :

48171.png48169.t1.png 92013.t1.png57909.t1.png

Lego is not "drifting more to mech's, brick-built villains, giant brick figs and vehicles", they've already done these before (especially vehicles, they've done hundreds, if not thousands of vehicles before). Look at themes like Exo-Force, or Knights Kingdom. They had brick-built mechs and characters (and that was over ten years ago), but these themes certainly did not kill "traditional" constraction. Something changed, sure, but I don't think Lego is intentionally trying to "dilute" possible constraction sets (or let's say, more generally, articulated figures) into the system-based themes they currently have, at least not much more than they did before.

I think another factor to consider here is that Constraction figures are not as parts-demanding as brick-built figures around the same size.

Things like Nexo Knight's King's Mech or the robot from 31034 Future Flyers are roughly around the same size as Late HF/Early G2 Bonkles, but they include far more parts and therefore have a higher price tag.

Meanwhile, things like Chima's Legends Beasts and the Mini-Mecha of Nexo Knights are priced at roughly 10 bucks, but are still rather puny compared to most Constraction figures (maybe they are around the same size as the Slizers, but I wouldn't be surprised if even those were actually taller).

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I've gone ahead and split this discussion into it's own topic- The Action Figure Forum Discussion thread is more for discussion about the Eurobricks AF forum itself and any news or updates regarding it's structure, contests, etc. Since this is more about the actual Lego building system, let's continue with this here. 

 

 

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It doesn't look bright for Constraction.

Bionicle's problem was its refusal to innovate - the vast majority of its sets were plain humanoids with nothing especially distinguishing them, which have been done to death and oversaturate the market. Only sets like Skull Scorpio and the elemental creatures were not humanoids. This also plagued the end of G1, too - an oversaturation of humanoid sets and nowhere near enough variety to compensate. Look at sets like Barraki, Vamprah, Krika - they were mostly unconventional and all stood out from their waves as well as past and future sets. That's what every set should be like - there shouldn't be a total lack of humanoids, but they shouldn't make up an entire wave. Kids have imaginations, don't make entire waves of heroes and entire waves of villains, do what 2008 did and have an imagination for once by mixing them up. Like Star Wars has done, and is still around for now even if CCBS in its entirety is getting phased out in next year's second half (at least according to TwistLaw, who as far as I am aware works at a LEGO Store to the best of my recollection?)

It should also be noted that Star Wars constraction pales in comparison to the actual official Star Wars Action Figures, and that a lot of people don't recognise CCBS as LEGO due its chokingly low amount of connectivity with system - it has good connectivity with Technic, but not System. They had plenty of opportunities to expand the system integration - the shells, for example, should never have used the add-on system they have now and simply had studs that you could attach system to. 

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4 hours ago, Ikaatril said:

It doesn't look bright for Constraction.

Bionicle's problem was its refusal to innovate - the vast majority of its sets were plain humanoids with nothing especially distinguishing them, which have been done to death and oversaturate the market. Only sets like Skull Scorpio and the elemental creatures were not humanoids. This also plagued the end of G1, too - an oversaturation of humanoid sets and nowhere near enough variety to compensate. Look at sets like Barraki, Vamprah, Krika - they were mostly unconventional and all stood out from their waves as well as past and future sets. That's what every set should be like - there shouldn't be a total lack of humanoids, but they shouldn't make up an entire wave. Kids have imaginations, don't make entire waves of heroes and entire waves of villains, do what 2008 did and have an imagination for once by mixing them up. Like Star Wars has done, and is still around for now even if CCBS in its entirety is getting phased out in next year's second half (at least according to TwistLaw, who as far as I am aware works at a LEGO Store to the best of my recollection?)

It should also be noted that Star Wars constraction pales in comparison to the actual official Star Wars Action Figures, and that a lot of people don't recognise CCBS as LEGO due its chokingly low amount of connectivity with system - it has good connectivity with Technic, but not System. They had plenty of opportunities to expand the system integration - the shells, for example, should never have used the add-on system they have now and simply had studs that you could attach system to. 

I would make the case that Umarak the Hunter, Lord of Skull Spiders, and all of the beast sets were leaps and bounds above the three G1 sets/set families that you mentioned, especially considering the lengths to which G2 aimed to include creative functions in every set. All of the aforementioned sets were as "non-humanoid" as the Barraki, Vamprah, or Krika, if not much more so.

I have immense faith in TLG as a whole, but I do have serious doubts as to whether or not their future endeavors with CCBS or similar systems will do well unless they take a radical, radical step. If they're going to be successful, they need to take a massive, possibly dangerous risk - one that is more reminiscent of a struggling company than what they resemble today. And I don't trust them to do that.

While we're on this subtopic, Ikaatril, if you're referring to TwistLaw's comment in the Star Wars Constraction 2017 thread, I'm 98% percent sure that that was speculation, and nothing else.

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Honestly I think the best thing for constraction would be for them to go to Minifigure action figures. As the LEGO Movies are doing awsome and LEGO obviously doesn't want to license out rights out for them and that is a popular thing to go with movies it'd make sense.

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4 hours ago, jhuyser said:

Honestly I think the best thing for constraction would be for them to go to Minifigure action figures. As the LEGO Movies are doing awsome and LEGO obviously doesn't want to license out rights out for them and that is a popular thing to go with movies it'd make sense.

That could be an interesting prospect though for that something System-based would probably work better than CCBS. Ares and Giant Man are sort of like what you seem to be suggesting, though I expect if they wanted to expand that into a full series they might consider introducing more dedicated parts for that purpose.

Personally, another thing I'd find interesting would be buildable dolls of characters from themes like Friends and Elves. That might require even more unusual parts and techniques, though, considering neither the angular, robotic-feeling CCBS nor the highly geometric nature of most basic System parts would necessarily be all that well-suited to that sort of thing.

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On 20.7.2017 at 7:48 PM, Lyichir said:

That could be an interesting prospect though for that something System-based would probably work better than CCBS. Ares and Giant Man are sort of like what you seem to be suggesting, though I expect if they wanted to expand that into a full series they might consider introducing more dedicated parts for that purpose.

Personally, another thing I'd find interesting would be buildable dolls of characters from themes like Friends and Elves. That might require even more unusual parts and techniques, though, considering neither the angular, robotic-feeling CCBS nor the highly geometric nature of most basic System parts would necessarily be all that well-suited to that sort of thing.

Who's Ares again?

Yeah, in order to make Constraction sets that are more in line with System, Lego would probably need to introduce new parts to make this more convenient.

And I'm totally in favor of the "buildable dolls" idea, be it for the simple fact that I might get some animesque heads/faces out of this.

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38 minutes ago, ZORK64 said:

Who's Ares again?

The villain from Wonder Woman :

76075_12.jpg

 

I find brick-build giant minifigs ugly, I'd be even less interested in a series of such sets than in BrickHeadz, and I'm not really a BrickHeadz fan. If something like that happens, I'd prefer if the figures were bigger, and perhaps more articulated.

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On 7/22/2017 at 4:07 PM, Leewan said:

The villain from Wonder Woman :

 

 

I find brick-build giant minifigs ugly, I'd be even less interested in a series of such sets than in BrickHeadz, and I'm not really a BrickHeadz fan. If something like that happens, I'd prefer if the figures were bigger, and perhaps more articulated.

Personally I find the brick-built giant minifigures kind of charming, but in any case part of why I brought them up is that if there were a full series of them (as opposed to one per year or less), they could potentially introduce some more new parts to help smooth out the rougher bits. That might be the best solution if you wanted a "constraction" subtheme of an original theme like Ninjago or Nexo Knights in which the figs represent themselves across all media, rather than being stand-ins for more "realistic" characters like in Friends, Exo-Force, or the majority of licensed themes.

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On 20/7/2017 at 6:23 AM, Azani said:

While we're on this subtopic, Ikaatril, if you're referring to TwistLaw's comment in the Star Wars Constraction 2017 thread, I'm 98% percent sure that that was speculation, and nothing else.

It was, but I admit I'm somewhat of a controversial figure in this forum, so I really didn't care if my words were misinterpreted.

Anyway, I find it funny to read topics made in 2015 (or even 2016!) discussing how ridicolous and counterproductive would have been for LEGO to "kill" constraction. In a sense it really is, and I'm still deeply confused about LEGO's decision to axe BIONICLE G2 so early - Hero Factory lasted five years, and I refuse to acknowledge the fact that G2 was less successful than HF. It must have happened something else, something that we may really never know; we have just lots of theories, and very few of them put the blame on BIONICLE, but rather on LEGO itself. G2 made its fair share of mistakes (mostly lore wise, the sets were near-perfect), but none of them are big enough to justify such a strong decision. The LEGO company, on the other hand...

In topic, I think that chances of a 2018 CCBS IP are decrasing with each passing day. If nothing happens next year, would it be a confirmaton of the end of constraction as we know it? I'm not saying it will be dead forever, but that it will come back in a much more different form in god knows hoy many years, just like they made Scala and years later they finally got it right with Friends.

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1 hour ago, TwistLaw said:

Anyway, I find it funny to read topics made in 2015 (or even 2016!) discussing how ridicolous and counterproductive would have been for LEGO to "kill" constraction. In a sense it really is, and I'm still deeply confused about LEGO's decision to axe BIONICLE G2 so early - Hero Factory lasted five years, and I refuse to acknowledge the fact that G2 was less successful than HF. It must have happened something else, something that we may really never know; we have just lots of theories, and very few of them put the blame on BIONICLE, but rather on LEGO itself. G2 made its fair share of mistakes (mostly lore wise, the sets were near-perfect), but none of them are big enough to justify such a strong decision. The LEGO company, on the other hand...

In topic, I think that chances of a 2018 CCBS IP are decrasing with each passing day. If nothing happens next year, would it be a confirmaton of the end of constraction as we know it? I'm not saying it will be dead forever, but that it will come back in a much more different form in god knows hoy many years, just like they made Scala and years later they finally got it right with Friends.

I'm not sure; there's a chance, as you alluded to, that the market for constraction took a nosedive at some point between 2010 and 2015. If such a change occurred, the distinct lack of marketing that G2 saw would make a little more sense, as the whole line was a pretty small project for them overall.

Here's the thing: we saw nine constraction sets released in 2017, including the four that are due for release in September. In 2011, we saw twenty-five. If constraction is going to come back in full swing, it needs a little more marketing than TLG has been willing to give it in recent years, at the very least.

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yeah, marketing was a big part of g1's success. G2 was a confusing mess, marketing was sparse and aimed at adults while story and content was made (poorly) for kids. The action figure market has kind of died down in general, so getting a new theme of the ground is actually a risky investment. even the star wars constraction is selling poorly in my area. I collect other action figures as well, and I've watched as the shelf space for them has gone from entire aisles to tiny strips hidden off to the side.Lego also barely marketed the last year of hero factory despite a radical change in play style, which in part led to bad sales. As someone responsible for ordering and stocking, I remove things from my set that don't move (I manage a dairy). So bionicle G2 comes on the scene, and no one wants to carry it because of all the slow moving hero factory sets from the year before. Unfortunately, a new theme within the next year or two would likely have exactly the same problem from retail. Lego needs to wait, and come back with a theme they're willing to actually market, after retailers forget about that one lego line that didn't sell.

Edited by Antak

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Once Nexo Knights ends (is 2018 the last projected year?), I can honestly see some kind of Constraction theme being Lego's next Big Bang theme. But not in a way we've seen it before. I'm in the camp that sees Mixel joints as the future and potentially a cure for CCBS's lack of presence.

I keep looking back at 2001 where Lego was struggling. Bionicle, and Mindstorms for that matter, were heavily marketed to get the company back on its feet. And in the time Bionicle was around, System continued to grow in the background and become stronger. By the time Bionicle ended, System was strong enough to carry the company without issue.

Basically, I figure there was a shift in general consumer interest somewhere in Bionicle's run where more people became more focused on System, which nowadays leaves Constraction in a niche. 

 

I really think Lego should focus on developing the Mixels system. Perhaps some CCBS/Mixels hybrid to introduce System fans into Constraction's building system. As I said, I could see the next Big Bang theme being something as such. It would make it the next big thing, with plenty of marketing potential, probably a tie-in TV series, and little other competition from other themes.

I just think trying to revitalize Constraction by only using CCBS and only making CCBS figures is a futile effort with today's market. It needs something different, something fresh, and more importantly: something to tell non-constriction fans that there's something worth checking out in Constraction.

 

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On 24/07/2017 at 2:33 AM, TwistLaw said:

I'm not saying it will be dead forever, but that it will come back in a much more different form in god knows hoy many years, just like they made Scala and years later they finally got it right with Friends.

Or Racers and Speed Champions ? (Although I'd prefer a non-licensed constraction new theme).

 

2 hours ago, Kalhiki said:

Once Nexo Knights ends (is 2018 the last projected year?), I can honestly see some kind of Constraction theme being Lego's next Big Bang theme.

I hope so, but I doubt we'll ever see a Constraction Big Bang theme. :sceptic:

 

2 hours ago, Kalhiki said:

I just think trying to revitalize Constraction by only using CCBS and only making CCBS figures is a futile effort with today's market. It needs something different, something fresh, and more importantly: something to tell non-constriction fans that there's something worth checking out in Constraction.

Yeah, it needs to appeal system fans. So whatever comes next, it will have to feature minifigures.

I'd like to see something a la Monster Hunter, where the characters (minifigs) would get weapons and armours from the creatures (buildable figures) they fight. There could be collectable armours and weapons, and the different creatures would provide an interesting and diverse range of sets. It might be a bit too violent if the characters were to kill the creatures, though.

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What did happen to Mixels? My son loved them, but suddenly they just dried up and I don't even see them on the Lego store anymore.

 

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I hope that LEGO's next take at Constraction figures won't be brick-built giant Minifigs. While those have a charme of their own, I don't think they would work that well as an entire line on their own merits. But yeah, something in that direction (as in having proportions which don't try to emulate the proportions of Minifigs in a larger scale, but introducing new parts to make those kinds of figures affordable) could have potential.

I wouldn't rule out an overhaul of CCBS to incorporate more brick-built elements either.

 

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On ‎7‎/‎25‎/‎2017 at 0:34 PM, Leewan said:

I hope so, but I doubt we'll ever see a Constraction Big Bang theme. :sceptic:

 

Yeah, it needs to appeal system fans. So whatever comes next, it will have to feature minifigures.

I'd like to see something a la Monster Hunter, where the characters (minifigs) would get weapons and armours from the creatures (buildable figures) they fight. There could be collectable armours and weapons, and the different creatures would provide an interesting and diverse range of sets. It might be a bit too violent if the characters were to kill the creatures, though.

Yeah, wishful thinking on my part. But I just feel if Lego were serious about revitalizing Constraction, a Big Bang theme would be a great way to go about it.

I'm just thinking about the competition, really. While I have nothing to back this up, Ninjago returned at the end of 2014; a few months before Bionicle returned. And the next year, Nexo Knights was released. I just feel that had a part to play in Bio's end as it may have drawn people's attention away from the theme.

 

As for future themes, I keep going back to Exo Force. After Invasion from Below, I'd love to see the minifigs and CCBS mechs idea be extrapolated upon. Then, we could have CCBS mechs, minifig pilots, and System playsets. A bit of everything!

 

Edited by Kalhiki

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Though it would not depend upon a constraction system like Ultrabuild, it would sort of be cool to see a Technic subtheme composed of piloted Mecha, featuring complex mechanics and possible walkability functioning. Granted, these sets would not be inexpensive like traditional constraction sets, but I could see a market for them. After all, TLG CEO Bali Padda had said in an interview  with fans at May's Media Fan Days event that they are looking into obtaining Asian IPs for future themes, which some have speculated could include Mecha Anime franchises.

Knowing Technic though, the theme usually focuses on real life source material, so it may not venture into fictional source material. So...perhaps they could create an entirely separate theme for this, maybe they could call it "Mechnic". :laugh:

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On 25.7.2017 at 7:34 PM, Leewan said:

I'd like to see something a la Monster Hunter, where the characters (minifigs) would get weapons and armours from the creatures (buildable figures) they fight. There could be collectable armours and weapons, and the different creatures would provide an interesting and diverse range of sets. It might be a bit too violent if the characters were to kill the creatures, though.

I think the general idea (heroes gearing up by defeating monsters) could be implemented in a non-lethal fashion, especially when you take Lego's light-hearted humor into account. They could also make the monsters actually robots, for example.

I do wonder how you could design parts that could function both as body parts of creatures and minifigure equipment. I mean, sure, stuff like weapons or shields could be easily incorporated into the creatures, but armors?

 

On 26.7.2017 at 6:55 PM, Sarah said:

What did happen to Mixels? My son loved them, but suddenly they just dried up and I don't even see them on the Lego store anymore.

They were discontinued, unfortunately. Not sure why exactly though.

 

4 hours ago, Kalhiki said:

As for future themes, I keep going back to Exo Force. After Invasion from Below, I'd love to see the minifigs and CCBS mechs idea be extrapolated upon. Then, we could have CCBS mechs, minifig pilots, and System playsets. A bit of everything!

Truth be told, I was initially "meh" about Invasion of Below, but after getting a few things for cheap and building some humongous mecha myself (still need to overhaul its legs and post that monster online...), I see the appeal for this kind of thing.

 

4 hours ago, Digger of Bricks said:

Though it would not depend upon a constraction system like Ultrabuild, it would sort of be cool to see a Technic subtheme composed of piloted Mecha, featuring complex mechanics and possible walkability functioning. Granted, these sets would not be inexpensive like traditional constraction sets, but I could see a market for them. After all, TLG CEO Bali Padda had said in an interview  with fans at May's Media Fan Days event that they are looking into obtaining Asian IPs for future themes, which some have speculated could include Mecha Anime franchises.

Knowing Technic though, the theme usually focuses on real life source material, so it may not venture into fictional source material. So...perhaps they could create an entirely separate theme for this, maybe they could call it "Mechnic". :laugh:

I suppose if TLG aquires the right to some Mecha Anime, they would probably release the sets for that under the name of the IP in question, regardless what exactly it is.

 

On that note, I once read that Exo Force sold rather poorly. Is this true?

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1 hour ago, ZORK64 said:

I think the general idea (heroes gearing up by defeating monsters) could be implemented in a non-lethal fashion, especially when you take Lego's light-hearted humor into account. They could also make the monsters actually robots, for example.

I will say that a Monster-Hunter-like crafting system as described here would be extremely conducive to a constraction-based video game. Most constraction themes have gotten fairly little in the way of video game tie-ins. And most of those have not done much to really emphasize the Lego aspect of the characters. But a theme involving hunting mechanical enemies to use their parts to augment the player's own armor and weaponry? Now you're onto something. A mechanic like that might also make for a decent selling feature for a line of sets.

Of course, the violence is still potentially an issue. Even if you make the enemies robots, scavenging remains from fallen foes still feels like it goes a bit further than the typical fantasy violence of most Lego themes.

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