Future Action and Adventure Themes

[Aanchir]

21 hours ago, x105Black said:

My understanding is that both of those themes ended before their estimated natural lifespan of 3 years was completed.  In my books, those are relative failures.  The Tolkien themes suffered a similar fate, yes.  So my point remains.

Well, to hear one of the designers tell it…

Also, I think the difference in a theme lasting two and a half years or three is kind of splitting hairs. Nexo Knights got one new wave in its third year, Chima got two. Heck, Chima had more non-polybag sets in its final year than all the first year Kingdoms sets! To dismiss either Chima or Nexo Knights as not lasting three years because there wasn’t a new wave in June or later would be like saying Kingdoms only lasted one year because it only got two waves, or that Speed Champions is only in its second year because it’s had just four non-consecutive waves.

[x105Black]

On 7/3/2018 at 2:56 PM, Aanchir said:

Also, I think the difference in a theme lasting two and a half years or three is kind of splitting hairs. Nexo Knights got one new wave in its third year, Chima got two. Heck, Chima had more non-polybag sets in its final year than all the first year Kingdoms sets! To dismiss either Chima or Nexo Knights as not lasting three years because there wasn’t a new wave in June or later would be like saying Kingdoms only lasted one year because it only got two waves, or that Speed Champions is only in its second year because it’s had just four non-consecutive waves.

The point is that they were scheduled to last longer than they did.  The rest is irrelevant because that fact remains.

[Aanchir]

18 hours ago, x105Black said:

The point is that they were scheduled to last longer than they did.  The rest is irrelevant because that fact remains.

First of all, is that confirmed anywhere for either of those themes, or pure speculation? I can't recall ever seeing anything that suggested Chima was supposed to get more than two waves in 2015, let alone that Nexo Knights was supposed to get more than one wave this year (I am aware of Nexo Knights books that were planned and later cancelled, but the same is true of LEGO Ninjago and LEGO Friends).

Furthermore, that seems like a rather ridiculous measuring stick for whether a theme succeeds or fails. We have literally no idea whether LEGO ever had plans for new Pirates sets in 1998. Would you declare the Pirates theme a failure on the basis of one hypothetical cancelled wave, regardless of what sales or profits were generated by the waves that actually got released? For that matter, what if LEGO came up with an idea for a new, different "modern day" theme to replace City, despite having planned on two or three more years of City sets? Would you then declare the City theme a "relative failure"?

[BrickJagger]

On 7/3/2018 at 2:56 PM, Aanchir said:

Well, to hear one of the designers tell it…

Would you mind posting this in the Nexo thread? It's nice to see confirmation that Nexo wasn't a flop.

1 hour ago, Aanchir said:

First of all, is that confirmed anywhere for either of those themes, or pure speculation? I can't recall ever seeing anything that suggested Chima was supposed to get more than two waves in 2015, let alone that Nexo Knights was supposed to get more than one wave this year (I am aware of Nexo Knights books that were planned and later cancelled, but the same is true of LEGO Ninjago and LEGO Friends).

I don't know about Chima, but it was confirmed a while back that NK Season 5 was cancelled. The only wave we got this year was missing a lot of key characters, iincluding the main villain, so it's pretty fair to assume that there were supposed to be at least a couple more sets.

Edited July 5, 2018 by BrickJagger

[Peppermint_M]

On 6/30/2018 at 4:31 PM, Digger of Bricks said:

Essentially, it would be a Dieselpunk/Sky-Fi Castle theme

Arrowsmith springs to mind here. (and I just went through a stack of fifteen year old comics to confirm the name.)

It had a really cool look and I want to build some things that match. I really do want to get my dieselpunk on.

[Digger of Bricks]

4 hours ago, Peppermint_M said:

Arrowsmith springs to mind here. (and I just went through a stack of fifteen year old comics to confirm the name.)

Interesting, but I'll have to admit, upon reading the Wiki article for that miniseries you linked, the elements of magic and sorcery typically associated with a lot of medieval high fantasy wasn't quite something I had in mind for the idea I concocted. The only supernatural element I'd factored in was on the part of the antagonist, who would more be dabbling into the sort of occult sciences that perhaps the Nazis would have been interested in, somewhat. 

[AyliffeMakit]

On 7/3/2018 at 7:56 PM, Aanchir said:

Well, to hear one of the designers tell it…

I mean, I agree with your general point that both themes didn't completely bomb but... he's a contracted set designer at LEGO. A contracted set designer that worked on both themes and is under NDA, in fact - of course he's gonna say that they exceeded sales targets innit. It's like expecting a car salesman to suddenly go "actually nah these cars here actually did really badly lol don't buy them", especially with stuff like contracts an' the like at play. Heck, the same guy was arguing Dimensions sold very well before they officially axed it. Don't just take this stuff at face value when there's waaaaaaaaaay more at play.

 

That being said (and a tad more on topic), I don't think either Chima or Nexo Knights sold obscenely badly or anything - as a whole at least. There's some elements of Chima like the Speedorz (had the last wave cancelled) and the Constraction ones (last wave or two were exclusive to a specific region, though I'd attribute that to product clash with Hero Factory more than anything) that most likely didn't do too swell, but as a whole the themes probably just did "okay" more than anything - they didn't lose vast amounts of money from the theme (TLG would've pulled the plug much sooner if that was the case) but they didn't do ninjago-tier gangbusters like they obviously wanted the themes to.

If there's any recent themes that've done incredibly poorly, Bionicle G2 and Dimensions are better examples to point the proverbial finger at - both had whole years of their plans lopped short due to sales, 'cos TLG saw they weren't doing too hot and axed them before things could go even more downhill. That's not to say their tales of woe are completely straightforward (I could write an essay on why exactly Dimensions bombed) or that their sets are automatically terrible because of this (the first wave of Bonkles G2 is my favourite in all of constraction, fite me), but they still didn't pull in enough dough to make continuing it sustainable. That's what failure looks like. A theme lasting for just it's originally-planned length and then silently bowing out with a fairly small last wave isn't failure - it's mediocrity. 

 

tl;dr: Chima and Nexo didn't heavily fail or succeed, they just did alright. There's been worse failures by far.

[Aanchir]

Samuel Johnson was under no obligation to chime in on a tweet that wasn't addressed at him, and whether or not you think there are details he's withholding, it would be foolish to imagine the details he DID provide are not truthful just because he's defending product lines he worked on. After all, his job is set design, not PR, and NDAs typically don't differentiate between positive and negative insider information.

I also would argue against the notion that a theme that did alright/exceeded sales targets did not succeed. Are we really at the point where a theme has to be an evergeen hit like Ninjago or Friends or City to call it a success at all?

Perhaps with Nexo Knights you could make an argument that the theme not becoming a lasting success like Ninjago meant falling short of ideal expectations. But when Chima was conceived, even Ninjago was not expected to be an evergreen hit. Its small third year wave was seen as its grand finale, and the announcement that new sets were in development for 2014 only came right before the first wave of Chima sets hit the shelves. So if Chima was intended to last as long as what was understood at the time to be Ninjago's lifespan, then it absolutely achieved that goal. If you plan for two bottles of soda to last a week each, but it turns out the ginger ale lasts eight days and the cola lasts a month, you don't say that the ginger ale didn't last as long as you expected.

[x105Black]

If a theme is set up to run for 3 years and ends early, it is a failure even if it exceeded sales goals at least in duration.  It failed to last the 3 expected years.  That's all.

[Peppermint_M]

This is discussion for future themes, not past ones and your perception of their success. 

Please refrain from this sort of extended arguing off topic. Thank you.

[Digger of Bricks]

Given my thing I have for retrofuturistic "punk" genres (Steampunk, Dieselpunk, DaVinci-Punk, Atompunk, etc), I was recently contemplating which alternate historical setting would be best suited for an original minidoll theme for girls. 

Well, though it may not quite be an established genre/aesthetic, how about "Nouveau-Punk", a fantastical setting where the Art Nouveau movement pervades nearly every stylistic aspect of man-made creations and construction, much like how Victorian motifs and stylistic sensibilities proliferate the overall look of the Steampunk genre? I'd argue, unlike some other retrofuturistic "punk" genres, that "Nouveau-Punk" wouldn't be as stuffy-looking so to speak, probably taking after the look of this artist's work for instance:

JohnCoulthart.com - The Art of Francois Schuiten 

[1Panda]

I don’t know if this idea has been thought of yet but I think it would be cool if LEGO did a theme that I call “Bug fighters “ which is basically alien conquest but with giant build able bugs like spiders,  insects and such. 

[Itaria No Shintaku]

I heard we actually risk Overwatch being a replacement for the action theme next year.
So Nexo out, Overwatch in.
But take this with at least a couple of grains of salt.

[Peppermint_M]

No matter what happens, we will always have Ninjago. 

[makoy]

On 8/2/2018 at 6:53 AM, Itaria No Shintaku said:

I heard we actually risk Overwatch being a replacement for the action theme next year.
So Nexo out, Overwatch in.
But take this with at least a couple of grains of salt.

I feel old for not being able to keep up with the latest game trends. Perhaps this is TLG's way of trying to be relevant with the video game folks.

I don't mind it overtaking Nexo Knights. I really don't mind at all.

 

19 hours ago, Peppermint_M said:

No matter what happens, we will always have Ninjago. 

Yessss! :)

[Digger of Bricks]

Being the basis for the last smaller-scaled action theme we've seen since then, I doubt Agents will be revisited sooner than other subject matters for such lines. 

But, having said that, when we do see Lego revisit that genre, I'd kinda like to see its next iteration evoke the original Alpha Team line, particularly with its somewhat 1980's, Cold War feel and Darth Vader-like villain with a nameless, homogenized army of soldiers (as opposed to individual, colorfully characterized henchmen). In a way, the aesthetic of such a reimagining could perhaps evoke the rigid look of toy lines from the eighties, such as G.I.Joe and M.A.S.K. for instance.

On 8/1/2018 at 5:53 PM, Itaria No Shintaku said:

I heard we actually risk Overwatch being a replacement for the action theme next year.
So Nexo out, Overwatch in.
But take this with at least a couple of grains of salt.

Hmmm, I wonder what @Nabii would tell us about this, given that he said he's worked on the upcoming line. 

[Digger of Bricks]

Here's a rather unusual idea, one I'd be interested to hear what @Aanchir would think of...

What if Lego had rebooted Bionicle back in 2015 as a minifigure-based action/adventure theme instead of as another constraction line? Or, alternatively, what if Lego indirectly adapted Bionicle as the inspiration for a minifigure-based action/adventure theme, utilizing at least the line's Techno-Polynesian setting and aesthetic? 

[Exetrius]

4 hours ago, Digger of Bricks said:

Here's a rather unusual idea, one I'd be interested to hear what @Aanchir would think of...

What if Lego had rebooted Bionicle back in 2015 as a minifigure-based action/adventure theme instead of as another constraction line? Or, alternatively, what if Lego indirectly adapted Bionicle as the inspiration for a minifigure-based action/adventure theme, utilizing at least the line's Techno-Polynesian setting and aesthetic? 

Well here's what that looked like during Bionicles original run: https://brickset.com/sets/theme-Bionicle/subtheme-Playsets.

Concerning a modern interpretation, there has been a lot of brainstorming at TTV: http://board.ttvchannel.com/t/ttvs-official-brickonicle-toa-designs-canon-worldbuilding-characters/35180 (and various other topics) and I recall there was a minifig Bionicle theme building contest, either at TTV or at BZPower.. but I'm not in in the details.

Anyway, I still love the techno-pseudo-polynesian, tribal-elemental, bio-magi-robotic... (alright, you get the point.. ) vibe of the early waves. With today's standards, I'm sure it could be a fantastic theme!

[Digger of Bricks]

3 minutes ago, Exetrius said:

Anyway, I still love the techno-pseudo-polynesian, tribal-elemental, bio-magi-robotic... (alright, you get the point.. ) vibe of the early waves. With today's standards, I'm sure it could be a fantastic theme!

Particularly, it that "techno-pseudo-polynesian, tribal-elemental" factor that could be interesting to see reincorporated into a minifigure-based playtheme. It wouldn't be Bionicle shrunk down to that scale exactly (like the subtheme example you cited), as the hero archetypes would instead be reimagined as humans/humanoids, with playsets focused more upon vehicular and architectural construction rather than character construction. 

[x105Black]

18 minutes ago, Exetrius said:

Well here's what that looked like during Bionicles original run: https://brickset.com/sets/theme-Bionicle/subtheme-Playsets.

Those aren't minifigures!  But I get the point.

[Digger of Bricks]

21 minutes ago, Exetrius said:

Concerning a modern interpretation, there has been a lot of brainstorming at TTV: http://board.ttvchannel.com/t/ttvs-official-brickonicle-toa-designs-canon-worldbuilding-characters/35180 (and various other topics) and I recall there was a minifig Bionicle theme building contest, either at TTV or at BZPower.. but I'm not in in the details.

Wow, I've never heard of this G3 "Brickonicle" fan theme before, nor have I ever seen any of the art or set concepts behind it either. After taking a look at the link you shared and checking out others "Brickonicle" proposals... 

[x105Black]

So it's basically Nexo Knights but a little more sci-fi.

[Digger of Bricks]

6 hours ago, x105Black said:

So it's basically Nexo Knights but a little more sci-fi.

Well, it definitely has more in common with Bionicle than Nexo Knights, especially pertaining to the factor of cultural inspiration. The only thing it does share with Nexo Knights is the typical color-coded band of heroes trope, something that's been used to death and is kinda expected from many Lego playthemes.

Now, regarding cultural inspirations, something maybe Lego could look to that hasn't been touched upon before for future action/adventure lines is Indian and/or Arabian culture and lore. Particularly, I would love to see an action/adventure theme inspired after the exploits of Sinbad the Sailor. 

[Exetrius]

On 1/21/2019 at 8:19 AM, x105Black said:

So it's basically Nexo Knights but a little more sci-fi.

Well, it has very little emphasis on the robot/technology part, at least in the movies I saw (Mask of Light and Legend Reborn). Most contrapsions (the Toa as well, actually) appear to work mechanically, by some sort of magic, or a combination of the two. You could say that the Toa are as much robots as Ninjago's ninja are ninja.

 

19 hours ago, Digger of Bricks said:

Now, regarding cultural inspirations, something maybe Lego could look to that hasn't been touched upon before for future action/adventure lines is Indian and/or Arabian culture and lore. Particularly, I would love to see an action/adventure theme inspired after the exploits of Sinbad the Sailor. 

Maybe I misunderstand your statement, but there have been a few Indian and Arabian sets in the Orient Expedition and Prince of Persia themes, as well as some Jasmina/Aladdin sets and finally the Taj Mahal:

Spoiler

 

  

  

 

However, it has been 9 years since Prince of Persia and 16 years since Orient Expedition, so a fresh theme with Arabic or Indian influences would be welcome.

 

[x105Black]

21 minutes ago, Exetrius said:

Well, it has very little emphasis on the robot/technology part

I was just going on the look of the fan-designed minifigures.  They looked like hi-tech Nexo Knights.

 

22 minutes ago, Exetrius said:

it has been 9 years since Prince of Persia and 16 years since Orient Expedition, so a fresh theme with Arabic or Indian influences would be welcome.

Absolutely.  I would very much enjoy such a theme.  Sometimes, Star Wars sets can venture into that niche a little, but never enough, so a theme dedicated to that style of design would be amazing.