Pirates vs EITC

[Mjazzw7]

SPOILER ALERT FROM PIRATES OF THE CARIBBEAN AT WORLDS END!!!!!!

 

Of course, many of us have watched "Pirates of the Caribbean At Worlds End". BUT, what would have happened if the EITC, lord cutler Beckett's flag ship, would have opened fired on the black pearl and the flying Dutchman with its massive 100 cannons, 50 on each side? Would the two pirate ships survive? Or, would it be a replay, before pirates of the Caribbean dead men tell no tales?

 

[2maxwell]

Both the Black Pearl and the Flying Dutchman are galleons. Galleons are a much older variety of ship than the above ship of the line, and were typically smaller, carried fewer guns, and carried smaller weight guns. According to the PotC wiki, both galleons are about 160-170 ft long. I was recently on El Galeon Andalucia, which is about the same length. It was docked next to the USS Constellation, a sloop of war comparable in size to earlier American super frigates (about 10 feet longer than British frigates of the 18th century), and was much smaller in comparison. The guns and deck were all much lower. Frankly speaking, if the movie was remotely realistic and not about ghost ships, not only would Beckett's ship have done significant damage to the other two with its first salvo but, even if it had sat there and taken fire from both ships for a short amount of time, its unlikely that they would have done much damage with their ~30 guns. Galleons are fine ships, don't get me wrong, but these were weapons perfected hundreds of years apart. 

That's not to say they wouldn't also have a few advantages. I haven't found too many sources on the mechanics of operating both sides of guns simultaneously, but what I have read usually says that, in most ships, each gun is serviced by the crews of both the gun being fired and the gun opposite it, for a total of about 12 guys (6 per gun). I don't know exactly how essential each man is to reloading/firing, but that would seem to suggest that Beckett's men wouldn't be able to reload/fire both sides simultaneously with much ease or regularity. Also, because of how much lower the galleons are, their fighting tops (do galleons have fighting tops?) would be much closer to the opposing quarterdeck. That's how Admiral Nelson was killed in the HMS Victory's fight against the Redoubtable (a 2 deck French 74).

Basically, smaller ships can and have beaten much larger ships, but it would need very different tactics than what we saw in the movie.

[Mjazzw7]

thats true, but before I go on, have you watched pirates of the Caribbean dead men tell no tales?

[Maxim I]

Some remarks:

Do not put spoilers of Dead Men Tell no Tales in here. It would be unfair for those who haven't seen the movie yet... The vessel you are referring to in Dead Men Tell No Tales is the Silent Mary, which is another vessel...

Considering everyone has seen the At World's End movie, we can talk about it, even I am not sure what this has to do with Lego...

The EITC is not the name of the vessel. EITC stands for East India Trading Company and is the company the vessel belongs to.

The vessel itself is called the HMS Endeavour, a hundred gun First Rate of the Line.

The reason there was no fighting as explained on the POTC Wikia:

"Beckett, utterly out-maneuvered, could only watch as his ship was devastated before his eyes. Although the Endeavour possessed more than enough guns to make a stand against both ships, the shock of having the Dutchman turn against him made Beckett unable to give any order to fight back. Theodore Groves, seeing that Beckett could not give any orders, ordered the crew to abandon ship. However, Beckett simply descended onto the deck as the vessel was slowly blown apart in front of him, and was consumed by the explosion of the powder magazine that destroyed the Endeavour. The remains of the vessel were left to slowly sink under the waves. "

So yes it would have been a great battle if she opened fire, but it sitll is a Disney Movie where the protagonist is supposed to win...

Feel free to build the scenes with Lego Micro's MOC's and show us what should have happened :)

 

[Captain Pirate Man]

Besides I am not convinced that the Endeavour really could take out the FD on its own, let alone with the BP. Why? The ability to dive, the forward guns, etc. The Dutchman has some nifty bells and whistles to it. Even though it would be out gunned, the FD has more than just cannons to work with. As impressive as the Endeavour was, at the end of the day it was just a ship, a ship with a poor Captain at that.

My money would be on the FD with either Will or Davey as Captain over the Endeavour.

[Mjazzw7]

The Endavour did have a poor captain, that's true enough considering he didn't say a word when James asked for orders. And even if the Endavour fired at the two galleons, the ship is so massive that lots of the cannons would not even hit the two ships. Also, the time it takes to reload the massive ship. In a scene from the movie, captain jack sparrow was walking out of the Endavour captain's courters there was a cannon on his left that came out of nowhere. And when lord bucket was walking down the stairs with explosions in the background (go figure!) there was not that many blue coats on board. 

9 hours ago, Maxim I said:

Some remarks:

Do not put spoilers of Dead Men Tell no Tales in here. It would be unfair for those who haven't seen the movie yet... The vessel you are referring to in Dead Men Tell No Tales is the Silent Mary, which is another vessel...

Considering everyone has seen the At World's End movie, we can talk about it, even I am not sure what this has to do with Lego...

The EITC is not the name of the vessel. EITC stands for East India Trading Company and is the company the vessel belongs to.

The vessel itself is called the HMS Endeavour, a hundred gun First Rate of the Line.

The reason there was no fighting as explained on the POTC Wikia:

"Beckett, utterly out-maneuvered, could only watch as his ship was devastated before his eyes. Although the Endeavour possessed more than enough guns to make a stand against both ships, the shock of having the Dutchman turn against him made Beckett unable to give any order to fight back. Theodore Groves, seeing that Beckett could not give any orders, ordered the crew to abandon ship. However, Beckett simply descended onto the deck as the vessel was slowly blown apart in front of him, and was consumed by the explosion of the powder magazine that destroyed the Endeavour. The remains of the vessel were left to slowly sink under the waves. "

So yes it would have been a great battle if she opened fire, but it sitll is a Disney Movie where the protagonist is supposed to win...

Feel free to build the scenes with Lego Micro's MOC's and show us what should have happened :)

 

THEODOR GROVES?!?! That was not him by all means. That was James Norris. And I will tell you why bellow: 

After James Norris fought for the key to Davy Jones's heart, he found the "jar aid dirt" which was the heart. He took it and went off to Lord Bucket. He gave the lord the heart and in return, gave Norris a promotion to a high rank (I forgot the rank) and was put on his ship.

 

Edited June 8, 2017 by Mjazzw7

[N-4K0]

I don't know if his name is correctly given or not, but the article from the PotC wiki says he was a lieutenant and the second-in-command aboard the HMS Endeavour under Beckett.