Haddock51

Lego Train 9V Extreme - ready!

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5 hours ago, baard said:

Any derailings while making it?

Looks like a huge Lego room!

 

Very few indeed. The last weekend in October, we spent ten hours on filming and taking pictures. Prior to that weekend, I had spent many, many hours on testing - and modifying - the iron ore train, primarily speed,  number and sequence of engines (a reduction of length and/or weight has never been on the agenda).

The room dimensions are 5.5 x 7.3 m. And approx. 20 square meters are still available ....

Edited by Haddock51

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11 hours ago, Haddock51 said:

 (I might be somewhat biased ...)

Even though Lego has discontinued to sell this system, you can still find quite a lot of sets, parts etc. on the internet, not only through BrickLink.

 

Good luck with your project!

Oh, biased? You? No way :laugh:

Since I got my Metroliner out of the basement I've been trying to get my hands on 9V rails and motors, and I must say it is indeed possible even with my very restricted funds. There is indeed lots of 9V stuff around for little money, if you search hard enough.

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On ‎2017‎-‎11‎-‎29 at 11:55 PM, ElectroDiva said:

Then you come across a project like this where the usual boundaries are pushed (to use your word) "to the extreme" showing what can be achieved with a particular theme/sub genre (the 9V train system in this case)

The idea to start testing gradients came up in the mid 90s when the first 9V trains were included in my rather large Legoland layout. The issue of space - or rather lack of space - is a constantly recurring challenge when building with Lego, something that most of us have experienced. For me it was obvious that building a layout with various levels would be a true "space saver". And Lego 9V engines were considered as one of the strongest on the model train market (maybe they still are?). I also believed - and still do - that the 9V system has a tremendous potential. However, the response from some person at TLG was depressing - forget it, it's just a children toy.

For many years, I managed to operate standard trains in gradients (up to approx. five percent) with up to four engines by synchronizing two standard 9V speed regulators, which was ok. But it was not until early 2011 when the idea of building something spectacular and unique came up - the vision to build a layout where you could run trains from floor to ceiling!

The rest is already history. Pushing boundaries to the extreme and moving into unknown territories is indeed a fantastic journey - and the satisfaction after achieving the "impossible" is indescribable ...

PS:  Somebody also told me that this mindset might be an excellent way to prevent dementia ...

Edited by Haddock51

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What I like so much regarding your approach when I saw your initial post, was the finesse of the finish of the wooden structure you built for the LEGO track. It takes so much time and skills to arrive at this finish. The whole wooden structure alone is a beauty in many regards: Your manifold skills, the perfection, the idea. The latter is the most important thing, but sometimes the artwork simply pushes into the front.

Now hearing about your motivation, the believe in the 9V system pretty much makes me believe we both think entirely along the same lines: The potential of this system has - none what so ever - never been pursued in an appropriate way by TLG. But then: Cheaper, making millions - I guess they had to do it that way. Well they chose it that way.

I truly believe in what you are saying: Pushing the limits. The thing is: Limits are set by yourself. And then may also appeal to others. Everyone has individual limits. Push them - I guess this is what you are saying. With the tools, capabilities, money, thoughts, ideas you have. It does not have to be insanely expensive - it just should be beyond and above - your own imagination. And that may be done just with a bucket of 2x4s ...

With great pleasure I have followed this thread. Initially I thought: Pushing technology. Now I believe your are pushing imagination. That is my world.

Honestly: When watching your (breathtaking) video (congratulations to you all!!!) the most impressive thing to me was seeing you: Carefully adjusting power, always watching the train ... with ease, sincere fun, and silent alertness.

A wonderful project. And a masterful solution.

Congratulations.

Best wishes
Thorsten 

       

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On ‎01‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 6:43 AM, Haddock51 said:

 

 

The Dm3 - legendary Queen of the Swedish Iron Ore Train. Picture taken at Narvik station in Norway.

37883333455_4a8fbf8bf3_c.jpg

 

 

So in effect, she's a EMU...? Just found a video of a her class...

How many 9V motors did you need for the other locomotives, like the emerald night? You must have built up a stock of them!

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4 hours ago, Steamdemon said:

So in effect, she's a EMU...? Just found a video of a her class...

How many 9V motors did you need for the other locomotives, like the emerald night? You must have built up a stock of them!

Sorry for the question but what do you mean by EMU? I guess you are not referring to the bird nor the European Monetary Union ...

Thanks for adding this nice video. I have seen the train in real life and it's absolutely breathtaking! This later Dm3 version in black, red and blue with the huge advertisement on the sides is not really my favourite. The older version in brown is truly a beauty!

Starting in 2000, the train operator LKAB Malmtrafik AB has invested in 34 very powerful IORE locomotives from Bombardier. These locomotives - the strongest ones in the world - operate in pairs (Co'Co' + Co'Co') and pull up to 68 new 120 ton wagons. The total weight of such a train - excl. the locomotives - is 8160 tons (!)

To be honest, 68 wagons are not on my agenda ...

My extended EN train has 8 engines, the Rolling Road with 6 locomotives has 12 engines, the Track Cleaning Train with 6 locomotives has 12 engines, the timber train with 3 Da-locomotives has 10 engines, the coal train with an EN locomotive has 8 engines etc.

Starting in 1995, I have built up a stock of 138 9V engines...

Edited by Haddock51

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13 hours ago, Toastie said:

What I like so much regarding your approach when I saw your initial post, was the finesse of the finish of the wooden structure you built for the LEGO track. It takes so much time and skills to arrive at this finish. The whole wooden structure alone is a beauty in many regards: Your manifold skills, the perfection, the idea. The latter is the most important thing, but sometimes the artwork simply pushes into the front.

Now hearing about your motivation, the believe in the 9V system pretty much makes me believe we both think entirely along the same lines: The potential of this system has - none what so ever - never been pursued in an appropriate way by TLG. But then: Cheaper, making millions - I guess they had to do it that way. Well they chose it that way.

I truly believe in what you are saying: Pushing the limits. The thing is: Limits are set by yourself. And then may also appeal to others. Everyone has individual limits. Push them - I guess this is what you are saying. With the tools, capabilities, money, thoughts, ideas you have. It does not have to be insanely expensive - it just should be beyond and above - your own imagination. And that may be done just with a bucket of 2x4s ...

With great pleasure I have followed this thread. Initially I thought: Pushing technology. Now I believe your are pushing imagination. That is my world.

Honestly: When watching your (breathtaking) video (congratulations to you all!!!) the most impressive thing to me was seeing you: Carefully adjusting power, always watching the train ... with ease, sincere fun, and silent alertness.

A wonderful project. And a masterful solution.

Congratulations.

Best wishes
Thorsten 

       

Thank you so much for your appreciative comment. I was moved when reading your lines.

You're absolutely right: this is ultimately about pushing imagination!

I was smiling when I read your comment about myself and my way of acting as a train controller. The weeks prior to filming have indeed been strenuous - particularly when testing the iron ore train - with multiple derailments/crashes and - as a consequence - repeated and time consuming damage management on wagons and locomotives. So I learned the hard way and don't dare to take my eyes off this train for a second...

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EMU in train terms stands for Electric Multiple Unit. And that's a lot of 9V motors! 

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2 hours ago, Haddock51 said:

The weeks prior to filming have indeed been strenuous - particularly when testing the iron ore train - with multiple derailments/crashes and - as a consequence - repeated and time consuming damage management on wagons and locomotives. So I learned the hard way and don't dare to take my eyes off this train for a second...

Does the train try to cut the corner when doing a 180° curve? I had not thought of that but I could see it being a major problem/challenge. It sounds like you are mastering the art of getting it around the curves (challenging grades for the locomotive driver). If that is the case, could adding a mid train or end of train helper help, just like on real mountain grades?

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8 hours ago, zephyr1934 said:

Does the train try to cut the corner when doing a 180° curve? I had not thought of that but I could see it being a major problem/challenge. It sounds like you are mastering the art of getting it around the curves (challenging grades for the locomotive driver). If that is the case, could adding a mid train or end of train helper help, just like on real mountain grades?

The 180 degree curves are not the problem/risk areas.

Initial tests on floor level back in 2014 indicated no problems whatsoever to get the iron ore train all the way through the climbing spirals.

When experiencing major problems over the past weeks, I realized that the testing environment did not properly reflect the actual conditions on the 9V Extreme layout.

The majority of incidents occured in the top right corner, i.e. in the sections marked red on the scheme (ramp-flat level-climbing spiral-high speed track):

38076680094_e2b156207b_c.jpg

As you can see in the film, the iron ore train - due to its length - moves in all four sections at the same time. Forces and tensions change constantly when passing through this difficult part of the layout. Derailments occured because of dominating pushing forces from the rear part of the train alt. because of dominating pulling forces from the front part of the train. Despite the super magnets, there were also spontaneous decouplings. So one of the major challenges has been to find a train composition with balanced forces all way through these four sections (and other sections of the layout as well).

It took me some time to realize that speed - in particular low speed - could be one reason behind these incidents. I surmised that one important success factor was to keep a high and even impetus - which reads more speed. It requires indeed some guts to increase from low to medium speed with this monster train in this challenging part of the layout...

I also understood that the initial amount of 10 engines was not sufficient. After many tests, I ended up with 13 engines and the following wagon/engine sequence:

Dm3 + 2 engines + 2 engines + 2 wagons without engines + 2 engines + 3 wagons woe + 2 engines + 4 wagons woe + 2 engines + 4 wagons woe + 2 engines + 4 wagons woe + 1 engine

This combination works. Notice: 6 engines on the first five wagons after the Dm3 ...! 

However, the speed margins are still very small. As I mentionned before, to operate this train in this layout is very tricky and requires high focus and concentration.

PS: Maybe sometime in the future, I will write a thesis about this project - MSc.Emeritus in Lego 9V ....

Edited by Haddock51

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20 hours ago, Haddock51 said:

Lego 9V engines were considered as one of the strongest on the model train market (maybe they still are?). I also believed - and still do - that the 9V system has a tremendous potential. However, the response from some person at TLG was depressing - forget it, it's just a children toy.

 

The 9v train system had the resources of one of the world's biggest toy brands behind it so I'm not surprised they came up with a technically very good product. Such a shame that they then decided to abandon it in favour of the (in my opinion) dumbed down PF system. 

 

There was so much more they could have done in terms of automation etc. Thankfully there are now some pretty good 3rd party solutions for that.

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14 hours ago, ElectroDiva said:

 

The 9v train system had the resources of one of the world's biggest toy brands behind it so I'm not surprised they came up with a technically very good product. Such a shame that they then decided to abandon it in favour of the (in my opinion) dumbed down PF system. 

 

There was so much more they could have done in terms of automation etc. Thankfully there are now some pretty good 3rd party solutions for that.

The reasons behind TLGs decision to abandon the 9V system are still rather unclear to me. Rumors say that US authorities threatened TLG to take legal actions because the 9V system did not comply with some US laws. Whether this is correct or just an excuse to shift to something more profitable - the lousy PF system (what a downgrade!) - I don't know. 

Anyway, this is history.

Referring to your thread - 2018 Lego Trains - I am not optimistic at all. The way TLG "celebrated" the 50th anniversary of Lego trains last year was a shame. I simply haven't seen any indications or strategy for longterm investments in the Lego train product line. Some generic sets now and then - to (hopefully) keep the train freaks happy -  but much more important, to cashcow this segment as long as possible.

I hope I am wrong but with the current "strategy" I am afraid that this shrinking segment sooner or later will lose its remaining attraction, both among Lego train fans and for TLG, primarily for financial reasons... And keep in mind, competition internally (financial benchmarks) and externally is huge.

Speaking as a 9V oldtimer, I think there is still hope. There is plenty of stuff available on the market (incl. RC trains that can be converted to 9V) which provides continued  possibilities for new MOCs, dream layouts and nice train experiences, with or without 3rd party solutions. And there still is a global and active 9V community! I am proud to be a member of it!

 

PS:  There were articles in Swedish media some time ago observing a high - and increasing - share of violence in Lego sets over time. Just a cynical thought: if this is a conscious strategy, maybe the train product line is simply not violent enough for TLG ...  It seems like TLG - like many other toy brands - consciously and increasingly invests in and exploits the strong correlation between violence and profit/profitability (most likely at the expense of the train product line)

LEGO - quo vadis?

 

Edited by Haddock51

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@Haddock51 - I vaguely remember reading it was something to do with "safety concerns". @JopieK or one of the other forum veterans may be able to clarify.

 

With regard to the 50th anniversary "celebration" - yes that was very disappointing. A golden opportunity to create a special new train (or even a reissue a classic set) to throw a bone to the train fans - and they go with a Lego employee exclusive set of mini-builds instead..

 

With regard to the train strategy (or lack thereof) - there have been a few discussions on that over the years and the general consensus seems to be that trains just don't appeal (and hence sell enough) to kids to justify an expanded commitment to the theme from TLG. I personally don't buy that view. In my opinion, Lego trains still appeal to kids - the problem is they just don't have much choice to keep their interest going once they have one of the starter sets (e.g. 60051/600052/60098). Where are the extra wagons, trackside structures or (god forbid) locos to expand that starter set? 

 

I also think TLG are missing a trick with AFOLs. When you get to the AFOL stage, a pretty common goal is going to be creating a city layout. Trains are (in my opinion) essential for that. But the lack of choice in the range stunts the growth of that market - which is a bad thing as train AFOLs (from what I can see) are amongst the most passionate and high spending AFOLs out there. The whole thing also become a vicious circle: fewer sets -> less appeal -> lower sales -> fewer sets etc

 

With regard to your last point. well we did have this at one stage which was pretty violent :)

 

https://images.brickset.com/sets/AdditionalImages/79111-1/79111_alt2.jpg

 

 

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Just now, ElectroDiva said:

@Haddock51 - I vaguely remember reading it was something to do with "safety concerns". @JopieK or one of the other forum veterans may be able to clarify.

 

With regard to the 50th anniversary "celebration" - yes that was very disappointing. A golden opportunity to create a special new train (or even a reissue a classic set) to throw a bone to the train fans - and they go with a Lego employee exclusive set of mini-builds instead..

 

With regard to the train strategy (or lack thereof) - there have been a few discussions on that over the years and the general consensus seems to be that trains just don't appeal (and hence sell enough) to kids to justify an expanded commitment to the theme from TLG. I personally don't buy that view. In my opinion, Lego trains still appeal to kids - the problem is they just don't have much choice to keep their interest going once they have one of the starter sets (e.g. 60051/600052/60098). Where are the extra wagons, trackside structures or (god forbid) locos to expand that starter set? 

 

I also think TLG are missing a trick with AFOLs. When you get to the AFOL stage, a pretty common goal is going to be creating a city layout. Trains are (in my opinion) essential for that. But the lack of choice in the range stunts the growth of that market - which is a bad thing as train AFOLs (from what I can see) are amongst the most passionate and high spending AFOLs out there. The whole thing also become a vicious circle: fewer sets -> less appeal -> lower sales -> fewer sets etc

 

With regard to your last point. well we did have this at one stage which was pretty violent :)

 

https://images.brickset.com/sets/AdditionalImages/79111-1/79111_alt2.jpg

 

 

I really need to get round to buying that set. Probably would replace the cross pins with actual 6m cross beams. Anyway, If there isn't that much next year, it's going to be annoying. I think the safety concerns of TLG probably stemmed from the fact that you had rail contacts to actually make the 9v motors go, and any worn wire casing could be a hazard. I've got 4 9v motors, and my 9v rail contacts are shot...as in, frayed. They could have made the casing stronger. Oh well. At least it wasn't as complex as the PF system.

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On ‎2017‎-‎12‎-‎03 at 12:51 PM, ElectroDiva said:

With regard to the 50th anniversary "celebration" - yes that was very disappointing. A golden opportunity to create a special new train (or even a reissue a classic set) to throw a bone to the train fans - and they go with a Lego employee exclusive set of mini-builds instead..

With regard to the train strategy (or lack thereof) - there have been a few discussions on that over the years and the general consensus seems to be that trains just don't appeal (and hence sell enough) to kids to justify an expanded commitment to the theme from TLG. I personally don't buy that view. In my opinion, Lego trains still appeal to kids - the problem is they just don't have much choice to keep their interest going once they have one of the starter sets (e.g. 60051/600052/60098). Where are the extra wagons, trackside structures or (god forbid) locos to expand that starter set? 

I also think TLG are missing a trick with AFOLs. When you get to the AFOL stage, a pretty common goal is going to be creating a city layout. Trains are (in my opinion) essential for that. But the lack of choice in the range stunts the growth of that market - which is a bad thing as train AFOLs (from what I can see) are amongst the most passionate and high spending AFOLs out there. The whole thing also become a vicious circle: fewer sets -> less appeal -> lower sales -> fewer sets etc

 

Reading your comment makes me believe we both think entirely along the same lines. I guess the points are made and I really feel it's high time to get out of the gloomy mood.

Let me get back to this project and share with you one of the strongest memories I take with me.  Already when I started the first threads about the 9V Extreme project - both on Swebrick and Eurobricks - I was surprised and impressed by the interest and the commitment to support and encouragement from the very beginning. This project has been ongoing for several years an has come to stop several times because of challenges - particularly in the area of electrics/electronics - where I felt lost. The installation of 1000 meters of cable was another close show-stopper...

Yes, I had a lot of hands-on and mental support from my family, but also from Lego colleagues in the 9V community who shared their knowledge and experience with me. I will remember this for the rest of my life.

So keep in mind:  you'll never walk alone!

PS: This is a long shot - but the theme "You'll never walk alone" reminds me of the fans of FC Liverpool. Start this video, close your eyes, just listen  - and imagine there were 90 000  AFOLs singing on the stands... Gooseflesh is guaranteed...!

 

 

 

Edited by Haddock51

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10 minutes ago, Haddock51 said:

Let me get back to this project and share with you one of the strongest memories I take with me.  Already when I started the first threads about the 9V Extreme project - both on Swebrick and Eurobricks - I was surprised and impressed by the interest and the commitment to support and encouragement from the very beginning. This project has been ongoing for several years an has come to stop several times because of challenges - particularly in the area of electrics/electronics - where I felt lost. The installation of 1000 meters of cable was another close show-stopper...

Yes, I had a lot of hands-on and mental support from my family, but also from Lego colleagues in the 9V community who shared their knowledge and experience with me. I will remember this for the rest of my life.

So keep in mind:  you'll never walk alone!

 

Completely agree - Eurobricks (and particularly the train tech forum) is one of the nicest communities I've come across on the Internet. Always willing to help with technical advice and honest but encouraging feedback. It's a great bunch of people here.

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The switch from 12V to 9V was supposedly indeed mainly because in the US regulation made 12V unsuitable for toys (also one could easily conceive a child licking the conducting middle-tracks of course). I really think LEGO is also struggling with their trains concept. Gray 12V was more or less the culmination of LEGO trains (coming from push-along and 4.5V battery trains). The remote controlled points, signals, railway crossing etc. we never saw that in the 9V era although they brought out very nice trains including the Santa Fe sets. I feel more or less the same for monorail, that were really great sets, but LEGO did not in my honest opinion get the full potential out of it.  

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5 hours ago, Steamdemon said:

I really need to get round to buying that set. Probably would replace the cross pins with actual 6m cross beams. *snip*

When you do, I made some instructions to motorize it with an M-Motor here

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12 hours ago, JopieK said:

The switch from 12V to 9V was supposedly indeed mainly because in the US regulation made 12V unsuitable for toys (also one could easily conceive a child licking the conducting middle-tracks of course). I really think LEGO is also struggling with their trains concept. Gray 12V was more or less the culmination of LEGO trains (coming from push-along and 4.5V battery trains). The remote controlled points, signals, railway crossing etc. we never saw that in the 9V era although they brought out very nice trains including the Santa Fe sets. I feel more or less the same for monorail, that were really great sets, but LEGO did not in my honest opinion get the full potential out of it.  

Having been a management team member myself in a multinational company, I wonder about the decision process(-es) - and the kind of management people involved in these processes - at TLG. Yes, I remember that TLG was close to going chapter 11, but that alone cannot explain several of the strange - to put it least! - "strategic" decisions w.r.t. to Lego Train product lines.

I guess there are some common denominators: short term thinking, planning and commitment as well as lack of medium- and longterm strategies. In addition, a lack of industrial mindsets as well as lack of management skills and professionalism.

I also sense a poor attitude - to say the least - towards Lego train customers' loyalty, needs and interests. Still remember the very strong reactions among the US 9V communities ("Save the 9V product line"!) after TLGs decision to discontinue the 9V product line. (TLG apparently did not care about pre- and post damage management, i.e. turning bad news (from a customer point of view) into new opportunities and continued customer loyalty, something that certainly is not happening just by itself or with amateurs in key decision positions...)

I am simply at a loss of words when thinking about the fact that prior to the launch of the 9V product line in the US, TLG  apparently did not perform necessary and comprehensive analyses re. compliance of the 9V product line vs US laws!  And this in a situation with the legal issues re. the 12V product line in fresh memory ...

You get the impression that TLG itself is some kind of a playground where you signal thumb-up or thumb-down everytime somebody walks into the room with a proposal on what should be next.... And in the background there is a financial guy telling you whether this proposal is feasable or not from a short term profit and cashflow point of view ...

What you have to keep in mind is the fact that ultimately, it is your customers that make the final decision. And once they have walked away and turned their back to you (because they are no longer happy with the bones being thrown at them), it will be very difficult to get them back. Brand loyalties are no longer as strong as they used to be, not even for LEGO. And competition is fierce ...

As I said before, from a 9V perspective this is all history...

Edited by Haddock51

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8 hours ago, ElectroDiva said:

With regard to your last point. well we did have this at one stage which was pretty violent :)

https://images.brickset.com/sets/AdditionalImages/79111-1/79111_alt2.jpg

Personnaly, I find this set disgusting because I don't share the violent values that go with it. 

I would appreciate if you select another - alt. open a new -  thread for further discussions re this set.

Edited by Haddock51

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Back to your video, first it is the lenght that amazes me. I like it when trains, which are long in real life are built as long trains with Bricks. Bringing such a train to drive around is not  an easy tak but the slopes the train manages to climb is another great accomplishment. I have never used any 9V motors since I grew up with Power Functions, however powering long trains only by PF is quite a challenge and becomes nearly impossible if the motors are distributet through the whole train, like you did.

 

On 2.12.2017 at 10:24 AM, Steamdemon said:

So in effect, she's a EMU...? Just found a video of a her class...

 

I wouldn't call it an EMU, but an articulated locomotive.

 

 

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14 hours ago, Stefaneris said:

I have never used any 9V motors since I grew up with Power Functions, however powering long trains only by PF is quite a challenge and becomes nearly impossible if the motors are distributet through the whole train, like you did.

Interesting that it took such a long time until somebody brings up PF in this context.

Back in 2014 when I had a testing layout on floor level with one climbing spiral, a friend of mine visited me and brought his own Dm3 and (a short) iron ore train with him. At that time, he only used PF and to his great disappointment, it didn't work at all. He could hardly get the Dm3 alone through the climbing spiral.

Now he has completely converted to 9V and abandonned PF.

When it comes to this kind of layout with gradients, there is no way that PF can cope with these extreme challenges, no matter what kind of train you select.

I guess it's really up to you to decide what train product line to go for. That decision must obviously be based on your own requirements, specifications and expectations. (As I mentionned in one of my previous replys, I am too much biased after 25 years with 9V to give you any "neutral" advice.  However, to convert to PF has never been on my mind.)

Remember, it's never too late to convert to 9V.....

PS1: I have to appologize for my ignorance, but what is the difference between an EMU and an "articulated locomotive" ...?

PS2: It is really not often that I get replies from Swiss colleagues in this forum. I noticed that you are Swiss so let me take up a totally different subject: Being Swiss myself (Basler) and a great fan of Swiss trains, my dream still is to have a Swiss train in my Lego train collection and to run it in my "own" alps! To build such trains - particularly from Stadler - is most likely rather difficult. Some years ago, I tried to get in contact with members in LUG Switzerland, but without success. Stefaneris, could you give me a hand? I would love to get in contact with somebody who has built som nice Swiss trains.

Edited by Haddock51

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I would guess an EMU means something like an ICE or other kind of trains with several "parts", like cars which are connected permanently (and are driven with electricity, the other thing is a diesel multiple unit DMU). An articulated locomotive is just an engine, but due to the length or wheel arrangement it needs to be articulated to go around curves and switches.

However don't get me fixed on these definitions, maybe Wikipedia or some Railfan forums have a better description:wink:

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Just now, Stefaneris said:

I would guess an EMU means something like an ICE or other kind of trains with several "parts", like cars which are connected permanently (and are driven with electricity, the other thing is a diesel multiple unit DMU). An articulated locomotive is just an engine, but due to the length or wheel arrangement it needs to be articulated to go around curves and switches.

However don't get me fixed on these definitions, maybe Wikipedia or some Railfan forums have a better description:wink:

Vielen Dank!

What about my PS2?

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2 minutes ago, Haddock51 said:

Vielen Dank!

What about my PS2?

Of course I can, first, you can check my Flickr stream with some Swiss Trains and secondly I'll send you a PM.

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