New Ship Classes - The Transition

[Maxim I]

2 hours ago, MKJoshA said:

However, as has been stated by a few people, sending a large fleet of trade ships will usually pay for itself.

I still hope large fleets travelling between Breshaun and Nova Terelli will be punished with lower incomes...

[Professor Thaum]

2 hours ago, MKJoshA said:

However, as has been stated by a few people, sending a large fleet of trade ships will usually pay for itself. There's always risk, but the odds of a good return are decent with trade ships. But sending a large fleet of Class A ships does not pay for itself. Let's say one of my Class 5A ships captures a 4A. I sell it for 300-400 DBs. That's still less than what a Class 5 trade ship brings in.

The rules seem skewed to favor traders. You can argue that there will be fewer escorts so it'll be easier for pirates to capture ships. But they first have to afford being able to sail. And even then their return is less than the traders.

indeed

[Garmadon]

3 hours ago, MKJoshA said:

...The rules seem skewed to favor traders. You can argue that there will be fewer escorts so it'll be easier for pirates to capture ships. But they first have to afford being able to sail. And even then their return is less than the traders.

Well you know, I dare say that represents RL fairly well - a pirate would most likely either strike it rich or end up in the red if he fails to catch anything (especially if just sailing out without much of an idea where prey is to be found - less likely if the Eslandolans all tell you exactly where they're going ); and AFAIK most pirates preferred one or two fast ships to a large squadron... that said, we all do like and want pirates around, so I'm sure we'll be working to find a way to balance the two out somewhat more 

1 hour ago, Maxim I said:

I still hope large fleets travelling between Breshaun and Nova Terelli will be punished with lower incomes...

Definitely   That was one of the things many leaders wanted addressed in the new MRCA, and I'm confident that this'll help very much to encourage more risky, adventurous, exciting runs for those who want to strike it rich 

[Jacob Nion]

21 minutes ago, Garmadon said:

Well you know, I dare say that represents RL fairly well - a pirate would most likely either strike it rich or end up in the red if he fails to catch anything (especially if just sailing out without much of an idea where prey is to be found - less likely if the Eslandolans all tell you exactly where they're going ); and AFAIK most pirates preferred one or two fast ships to a large squadron... that said, we all do like and want pirates around, so I'm sure we'll be working to find a way to balance the two out somewhat more 

Definitely   That was one of the things many leaders wanted addressed in the new MRCA, and I'm confident that this'll help very much to encourage more risky, adventurous, exciting runs for those who want to strike it rich 

The point MK and I are adressing is that piracy should have the same value that trading offers. It is the monthly commerce AND raiding action. To me that means both actions are main options for a player. 

Aye, I believe all of you that you  honestly want piracy in the game to keep things exiting. But the Sea Rats are not a side quest for traders. We are a faction like any other. Except our goal is not to make progress by commerce but by raid action. 

What I want to say is that the pirate faction must have the same chance to "win" the game by playing it their way (piracy) than the other factions have by trading. 

Sure, regardless of faction every player can do all actions. But I guess that was not the intention when developing the factions. 

When a player decides to play as a sea rat that normally means he wants to do the pirate stuff. And our whole faction is intended to be the pirate faction. So please understand my point , there should be at least theoretically an equal chance of "winning", or lets say dominating the game by playing the pirate way as it is by playing as a regular trading nation. Of course leaving out aspects like amount of members and activity and the like, by theoretically I mean of course a situation where all factions would have similar resources.

That is the balance we should aming for. 

I don't know yet how to achieve this. Of course the whole game is far more complicated and there is a large variety of actions possible beside MRCA. But on the long run we will need to find a balance that makes Sea Rats as only "raiding specialised" faction more attractive. 

I see it like an RPG where I choose a character class at the beginning, or a skill tree. Then Sea Rats would be the class "Raider" and the empire factions something like "trader". Both have advantages and disadvantages, but in the end both should have a good balance to each other.

[Bregir]

Guys, I think you are seeing ghosts  :) 

Era II will do a lot to make privateering more attractive (regardless of Faction), and I don't think you will be disappointed. The mrca II is still being hammered out, but I personally have great expectations for it :D

So let's see where this goes before we yell "wolf" :) 

 

[MKJoshA]

5 hours ago, Garmadon said:

Well you know, I dare say that represents RL fairly well

But this isn't Real Life. It's a game.

4 hours ago, Jacob Nion said:

When a player decides to play as a sea rat that normally means he wants to do the pirate stuff. And our whole faction is intended to be the pirate faction. So please understand my point , there should be at least theoretically an equal chance of "winning", or lets say dominating the game by playing the pirate way as it is by playing as a regular trading nation. Of course leaving out aspects like amount of members and activity and the like, by theoretically I mean of course a situation where all factions would have similar resources.

This summarizes things very well.

[Elostirion]

Suggestions:

1) When upgrading the ship limit (the +25 thing), a MOC should be required. Really, just any kind of small MOC, explaining how the sigfig got to have more ships. Why? Because I think this could lead to very creative and unique MOCs. It might be anything: Building a big wharf, expanding the harbour, having and administration-office, bribing and official, receiving a letter from king/queen/council of your nation, hiring captains, buying maps of the seas, buying wood, hiring crew, speaking in front of an assembly to claim the right to maneuver more ships, receiving some kind of naval honour, a microbuild of your fleat, etc. Really just anything, no limits to creativity, to express how you suddenly are able to command more ships. Just because I think that would add a lot to BoBS in terms of MOCs.

2) I recommend removing free warships for factions, or just any free ships for factions. There is too much money in the game, way too much. Factions should have the neccessity to taxate their citizens and even their settlements. All town banks alone accumulate 10.571 DBs at the moment, 1.200 DBs of which came in this month. Take the upkeep from 3x class 5 (315 DBs), and that money does not lead to even more inflation. Keep the MOC-free, though (might even want to increase the MOC-free for factions to 5?).

3) The sistershipping-rule is very complicated, at least complicated to read. I decided to try and understand it once I need it. I suggest to add examples, at least.

4) I think the case that you own a license but have not yet MOCed the ship has not been considered yet? I have quite a few of those, see below...

 

 

 

Elostirion's currently licensed ships:

(the new stats are suggestions! Please advise if they are fine!)

 

La Presta Canosa, formerly 5F.

Class	Cost	Stat Points	Range	Maneuver	Firepower	Crew	Cargo	Hull	Sum
			(1-6)	(1-6)	(0-12)	(0-12)	(0-15)	(0-12)
5	420	21	6	6	1	1	6	1	21

 

The Cotton Lady, formerly 2T.

(I always felt she was a bit too big for a class 2, so I'd rather go with a class 3. What do you think? Else I'd take 1 away from each maneuver, cargo, hull)

Class	Cost	Stat Points	Range	Maneuver	Firepower	Crew	Cargo	Hull	Sum
			(1-6)	(1-6)	(0-12)	(0-12)	(0-15)	(0-12)
3	200	15	3	2	1	1	6	1	15

 

La Presta Canosa, formerly 2F

Class	Cost	Stat Points	Range	Maneuver	Firepower	Crew	Cargo	Hull	Sum
			(1-6)	(1-6)	(0-12)	(0-12)	(0-15)	(0-12)
2	120	12	3	4	0	0	4	1	12

 

Pearl Diving Canoe, formerly 0

(thanks for listing the canoe as an example! :-) )

Class	Cost	Stat Points	Range	Maneuver	Firepower	Crew	Cargo	Hull	Sum
			(1-6)	(1-6)	(0-12)	(0-12)	(0-15)	(0-12)
0	24	6	1	3	0	0	2	0	6

 

 

 

Elostirion's MOCed but non-licensed ships:

 

Holder's Secret, formerly 2A

(was sunk, I have the license-option for sistershipping ready (got it from one of the Pirate Purges), but never did actually activate it again).

Class	Cost	Stat Points	Range	Maneuver	Firepower	Crew	Cargo	Hull	Sum
			(1-6)	(1-6)	(0-12)	(0-12)	(0-15)	(0-12)
2	120	12	2	2	2	2	1	3	12

 

Also, I had a small trader in my Cotton Island MOC, which I never licensed, but always intended to. My suggestion would be:

Class	Cost	Stat Points	Range	Maneuver	Firepower	Crew	Cargo	Hull	Sum
			(1-6)	(1-6)	(0-12)	(0-12)	(0-15)	(0-12)
1	60	9	2	4	0	0	3	0	9

 

 

 

Elostirion's un-MOCed but licensable ships:

 

Via auctions I bought some ships. Also I got a replacement for a sunk ship during the purge. Currently I have licenses ready for: 

3x 3A   - and -   2x 2A   - and -   1x 5T

What will be the procedure for these?

I do intend to MOC the 5T within the next months, but I am not yet sure if I will MOC any of the armed ships.

 

3A Damned Carno, Elostirion: 125 db

3A Onishiit, Elostirion: 125 db

3A Cougar, Elostirion: 125 db

2A Unnamed 2, Elostirion: 75 db

2A Cargo Hold, Elostirion: free (got it during Brick Seas Purge as replacement for a sunk 2A).

5T Tango Kid, Elostirion: 300 db

3A, Trader's Doom, Elostirion, 80 db -> has been sold via price-court for 75 db

Auction 1

Auction 2

Auction 3

Purge-thread

 

 

 

Nova Terreli's currently licensed ships:

Joan's Raft, formerly class 0

Looking at the examples of the new classes I feel that a class 1 might be more appropriate?

Class	Cost	Stat Points	Range	Maneuver	Firepower	Crew	Cargo	Hull	Sum
			(1-6)	(1-6)	(0-12)	(0-12)	(0-15)	(0-12)
1	60	9	2	3	0	0	4	0	9

 

 

 

Nova Terreli's un-MOCed but licensable ships:

 

Got that ship via an auction for Nova Terreli, has not yet been MOCed. However I do intend to MOC it quite soon.

What will be the procedure for this?

1T Light Carrier, Nova Terreli: 26 db

 

Auction

Class	Cost	Stat Points	Range	Maneuver	Firepower	Crew	Cargo	Hull	Sum
			(1-6)	(1-6)	(0-12)	(0-12)	(0-15)	(0-12)
1	60	9	2	3	0	1	3	0	9

Edited June 18, 2017 by Elostirion

[Bregir]

Thanks for the feedback, Elos. We will take it up in court. A few comments:

1) We have already touched upon that in our discussion but never concluded. Will get back to you. I personally agree with you. And apart from sparking creativity, it also helps to make it transparent who increases their shiplimits. 

2) We are introducing quite a few money drains, a significant one being ship upkeep, which will have a large impact on factions, who have a lot of warships. So let us see if more is necessary after a while. Then this would certainly be an option. 

As to non-mocced vessels, we would prefer to have as few of those in game as possible. And all the factions have enough vessels to sistership from, if the whole fleet is lost. 

3) A ship takes up its class in shiplimits. If you have 4 class 5 ships that are sisterships, you can't have more, as that adds up to 20. Does that make sense? :) 

4) A capture is dormant, so to speak, until activated. So you can hold on to them all you want. They are simply turned into new license types. (eg. a 4a becomes a customisable class 4) 

Also, we are discussing whether settlements can license vessels going forward. Will keep you updated. 

As to specific vessels, I will have to take the time to sit down and look at it more closely. (I owe this to quite a few by now, sorry! Will get to it :)) 

[Elostirion]

Thanks for your instant reply! :-) 

 

32 minutes ago, Bregir said:

Also, we are discussing whether settlements can license vessels going forward. Will keep you updated. 

Please also consider property-licenses in that process. Currently settlements are just like players in almost every aspect regarding licenses, at least that's how people like myself interpreted the rules so far. I agree this should be discussed.

Instead of forbidding, however, I'd rather suggest to revise the mechanics altogether. Properties for settlements can make sense, but should be different. For example collecting harbour-tolls might be an option, and properties should be according to this purpose. That a city itself runs a factory - sure, that's possible, but in my opinion there should be some kind of game mechanics that are exclusive to cities, and properties dedicated to using those.

The same should apply for ships. What makes total sense for a settlement is to own small ships operating the harbour. What also makes total sense is running ships for protection, of both the settlement or even the whole zone. If Nova Terreli has five armed vessels patrolling in the zone, protecting against piracy, while Bardo has none - well sure, then trade ships are much more likely to visit Nova Terreli than Bardo. For that to be lucrative, however, there would have to be a mechanic for settlements to make money from ships coming to its ports in the MRCA (which would make perfect sense in my opinion!). So for example Nova Terreli invests 150 DBs per month in its protection fleet, thus attracting way more merchants, and earns 300 DBs during the MRCA (e.g. 10% taxation on trading of ships during MRCA), while Bardo (full of pirates because the town offers no protection) only attracts fewer merchants and thus only earns 100 DBs or something.

All in all: If you ask me there is a LOT more to be discussed about settlements than only whether they should be allowed to own ships or not. Currently settlements are like players, which is ok. If this is to be changed, it should be changed entirely.

[kaiju]

Ships MOCed and Licensed by myself:

• Wight Spider (was 1WR)
• Mirthless Jest (was 3A)
• Lenore (was 4T2)

Ships Licensed by Myself, MOCed by others

• Dark Narwhal (was 2A) Purchased from MKjoshA
• King Archibald (was 2A) Purchased from MKjoshA

MOCed by Myself, Unlicensed

• Bleak Angel

 

[Mesabi]

Hey Ya'll, I'm a little late to this discussion, and I'm kinda bumping an oldish topic, but I feel like I need to add my 2 cents.

I'm not really a fan, for 1 reason and 1 reason only.

Half of the classes are combat focused.

Class	Cost	Stat Points	Range	Maneuver	Firepower	Crew	Cargo	Hull	Sum
			(1-6)	(1-6)	(0-12)	(0-12)	(0-15)	(0-12)
2	120	12	3	4	2	1	0	2	12

Class	Cost	Stat Points	Range	Maneuver	Firepower	Crew	Cargo	Hull	Sum
			(1-6)	(1-6)	(0-12)	(0-12)	(0-15)	(0-12)
3	200	15	3	6	2	2	0	2	15

Class	Cost	Stat Points	Range	Maneuver	Firepower	Crew	Cargo	Hull	Sum
			(1-6)	(1-6)	(0-12)	(0-12)	(0-15)	(0-12)
5	420	21	5	3	4	4	0	5	21

Class	Cost	Stat Points	Range	Maneuver	Firepower	Crew	Cargo	Hull	Sum
			(1-6)	(1-6)	(0-12)	(0-12)	(0-15)	(0-12)
7	700	27	4	2	8	6	0	7	27

Class	Cost	Stat Points	Range	Maneuver	Firepower	Crew	Cargo	Hull	Sum
			(1-6)	(1-6)	(0-12)	(0-12)	(0-15)	(0-12)
8	900	30	4	2	9	7	0	8	30

More than half of the classes are completely useless for trading. This wouldn't be a problem if combat were a major part of the MCRA, but it's really not for us imperial powers. I mean what am I supposed to do, hit sea rats? To quote some of my fellows.

On 7/2/2017 at 7:58 AM, Legostone said:

@Mesabi

A short letter from the Eslandolan Sec. of Navy to Captain Mesabi:

Any attack going against any Eslandolan vessel will be seen as an act of aggression, and in your case as a breach of our factions non-aggression pact, which could lead to more than a small conflict. I advise you not to attack any Eslandolan vessels, be it MCTC, ETWC, MAESTRO, a navy vessel or a vessel unrelated to the companies.

Jerome Monezterrell,
Sec. of Navy, Governor of Isla de Victoria, Representative of MAESTRO in the Colonial Council 

 

On 7/2/2017 at 8:06 AM, Bregir said:

To captains of all vessels flying the flag of Corrington in the Brick Seas and beyond,

Any actions violating the laws and policy of Her Royal Majesty will result in the swift and firm prosecution of all involved. Particular care is to be given to uphold the safety of neutral and allied vessels, and any breach will have immediate consequences. 

In service of the Crown, 

Rear admiral Fletcher, 

Commander-in-chief, Terra Nova Fleet

So, my options for trading is to just have class 4 or 6 ships, and those aren't even very good, because the Class 4 has a cargo value of 1.

I seriously don't care about the maintenance costs, but I'd like to be able to have ships I can use for trading, rather than combat. 

[SilentWolf]

Someone can correct me if I am wrong but class 1 could have up to 9 stats in cargo, class 2 can have up to 12 and classes 3-8 can all have a maximum of 15 points. 

[Kai NRG]

40 minutes ago, Mesabi said:

Half of the classes are combat focused.

 

Just now, SilentWolf said:

Someone can correct me if I am wrong but class 1 could have up to 9 stats in cargo, class 2 can have up to 12 and classes 3-8 can all have a maximum of 15 points. 

Indeed.  Those numbers are illustrative - you can distribute the points as you like (ideally they would reflect the in-the-brick characteristics/look of your vessel).

[Mesabi]

2 hours ago, Kai NRG said:

 

Indeed.  Those numbers are illustrative - you can distribute the points as you like (ideally they would reflect the in-the-brick characteristics/look of your vessel).

Can you quote that for me? I don't see that anywhere on the announcement. Maybe I'm being an idiot... 

On 5/14/2017 at 3:19 AM, Kolonialbeamter said:

Ship Classes:

• Each ship class comes with a total number of stat points, the higher the class the more stat points are available.
• Within the distribution limits these stat points can be spread among the various ship characteristics according to one’s individual preference to create customized licenses, for reference MOCs see the second post in this thread.
• Ship characteristics are:
  • Range (R): This is the number of zones a ship can travel per MCRA. Must be a value between 1 and 6.
  • Maneuver (M): This is the vessel's ability to maneuver in an encounter. Thus, it decides its relative ability to catch up with or flee from an enemy. Must be a value between 1 and 6. For class 9 it must be a value between 1 and 5, for class 10 a value between 1 and 4.
  • Guns (G): This is the ship’s firepower. Must be a value between 0 and 12.
  • Crew (C): This is the fighting crew of your vessel, used during boarding actions. Roughly, one C equals 5 men. A 0 crew is the captain and a few choice men. Must be a value between 0 and 12.
  • Cargo ($): This is the space the ship has for hauling goods. Must be a value between 0 and 15.
  • Hull Strength (H): This is the strength of the hull, the vessel's ability to withstand fire from warships and fortresses. Must be a value between 0 and 12.

 

Found it! That is really small print.... 

[Bregir]

Ok, I will slowly start to go through the suggestions. Don't worry if I don't get to yours just yet! What I say are not hard rules, but suggestions, and I am not infallible, but we implore you all not to stretch the classes but try to find the one where your ship is most similar in size to the reference moc/archetypes.

On 14/05/2017 at 0:46 PM, gedren_y said:

Island Rose - formerly a Class 2F - now she is probably Class 3
Stats: Range - 3 l Maneuver - 6 l Firepower - 0 l Crew - 1 l Cargo - 3 l Hull - 2 l Total - 15
She has no 'guns', and the crew are merchants, not soldiers.

Consort's Duty - formerly Class 5F - now she is probably Class 5
Stats: Range - 5 l Maneuver - 6 l Firepower - 1 l Crew - 2 l Cargo - 4 l Hull - 3 l Total - 21
She has two small bore 'guns', and a moderate fighting crew. Her hull is designed for speed, not defense.

@Bregir I hadn't read fully about the variable stats when I made my initial claim. The Consort's Duty should have the length to qualify as a Class 5. I have no problem covering the increased cost.

I think this sounds reasonable.

On 14/05/2017 at 5:59 PM, CelesAurivern said:

I'll just list my stuff first

Peregrine 1T

Valkyrie 2F

HMS Sparta 5T

HMS Sovereign 3T2

Tomahawk 4A - captured licence only

 

I am on the fence with the Sparta, as I think she is somewhere in between 4 and 5. Your choice. Otherwise, I think they can all maintain their class.

On 14/05/2017 at 8:53 PM, Mesabi said:

My Ships

Icarus Returning, 5T, relicensing as a 5.

Suckerfish, 3T relicensing as a 4.

Bad Blood 2WR, relicensing as a 3

Bad Blood should still be a class 2. Otherwise, I agree.

On 15/05/2017 at 11:35 AM, Maxim I said:

I guess these would be my vessels:

 

													322,5	10
name	class	Stat points	Range	Manouver	Firepower	Crew	Cargo	Hull	sum	Status	Licence?	Owner	Upkeep Maxim	Active Maxim	MOC
Purple Rain	4	18	4	5	2	2	3	2	18	active	active	Maxim I	75	4	http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?/forums/topic/121836-esl-fb1-class-4t2-purple-rain/
Prince of Stedor	6	24	4	2	4	4	5	5	24	active	active	Maxim I	140	6	http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=130691
AQAR	7	27	4	4	7	5	0	7	27	Drydocked	no	none	0	0	http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?/forums/topic/148884-esl-ch5c-capturing-the-aqar/
Tuna King	3	15	3	5	1	1	3	2	15	Drydocked	captured licence	Maxim I	0	0	http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?/forums/topic/149485-esl-chal-5d-captain-rijsks-unfortunate-day-part-2-misleaded/
Purple Revenge	5	21	4	6	4	4	0	3	21	Drydocked	no	none	0	0	http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?/forums/topic/148456-esl-fb-class-5la-the-purple-reign-a-fast-answer/
Goldi Locks	5	21	3						3	Drydocked	captured licence	Maxim I	0	0
Another soldier	2	12	3	5	2	1	0	1	12	Drydocked	free	none	0	0	http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?/forums/topic/119418-esl-the-knight-of-stedor-6-gun-cutter/
Margot	7	27	4	2	8	6	0	7	27	unavailable	Dread Treasure II	Eslandola	0	0	http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=126812
Royal Beluga	5	21	4	4	5	4	0	4	21	unavailable	Beluga II	Eslandola	0	0	http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?/forums/topic/143317-esl-ol-beluga/

I think the Purple Revenge could easily be a class 6, but other than that, I think you have hit spot on.

[Bregir]

@Legostone:

Ok, that was a lot of ships! (Luckily, they are all a pleasure to behold!)

Generally, I feel like you might be overestimating your vessel a bit. Let me go through them one by one:

• Rojo Tormento: Being very lightly built and not that large generally, I think she should be a class 4.
• Dragon's Revenge: Agreed. Class 6
• Raenette: Agreed. Class 2
• Esmaralda: Agreed. Class 5
• Arkady: Agreed. Class 2
• Puppy Hustler: Lets stick to 3 with this one, although it is a bit irregular being a microlicense.
• El Rubi: Agreed. Class 4
• Green Winds: Between 4 and 5. Could be a 5.
• Colour of the Wind: I would say she is a class 4. Lightly built.
• La Mystique: More comparable in size to the Otter, thus a class 3.
• Reventazon: As is. Class 4. (And I believe these microlicenses are unsistershippable. Unless one earns a new microlicense, of course)
• Santiago: Class 7, no doubt.
• Cardinal: Hmm, I am on the fence about this one. Is it really comparable to the Margot? Only the largest frigates would fall in class 7. (I think Body made a very large one) It is a bit hard for me to figure out - is she considerably larger than the Dragon's revenge, for instance, or basicly comparable? I agree she would probably be a large class 6, but she would also be a small class 7. Not sure what to make of it.
• Wringe II: Go, class 2.
• Unmoced licenses maintain their class.

[Bregir]

On 15/05/2017 at 4:14 PM, Kai NRG said:

So the only current active license I have is the Dark Spirit bought from Legostone which was a class 2A and is now still a Class 2 I'd assume with an obviously fairly high gun rating comparatively.  Because this is my only ship will I get refunded for the license and then re-license it as a free license?

I also own the license for the Little Tyke, previously a 1A, captured by ESL, bought in auction, un-MOCed as of yet.  It will have to stay a class 1 of course.

I have two MOCed ships that have been sunk/captured, the Filo Morado and the Golden Snake.  Previously I had decided not to sistership because I felt like the rules were just too loose and ill-defined but with the new rule system I'll re-evaluate that, probably in favor of sister-shipping, so I may as well list the two.  Filo Morado was licensed as a 5A but it's really much more of an F than an A anyways.  Not sure if it should be a 6 or 7 now.  It has a couple more guns than the current 6 example besides being patently a ship built for speed over gunpower, so that probably puts it as a 7?

The Golden Snake was a 2WR and is still a 2 I imagine.  Even if I do sistership though, I'm not sure this one is worth it. 

 

---

I'm also confused about upkeep; the Base Upkeep is from X to X+100 or 99... what?  Stat points?  Class levels?  DBs earned in a given run?  Garmadon, who should know, says the latter but it doesn't make the slightest amount of sense to charge 100% upkeep if it's based on DBs earned!

Dark Spirit: Class 3

Filo Morado: Class 6, as discussed

Golden Snake: Class 2

On 15/05/2017 at 6:09 PM, Capt Wolf said:

I am not ready to finalize stats for new licenses, but here are my current ship licenses (Capt Wolf):

   2WR Lady of Madrice II (considering relicensing as a class 3)
   4T2 Far Horizon (considering relicensing as a class 5)
   4A Sleeping Siren II (considering relicensing as a class 5)
   5T La Contessa de Victoria (considering relicensing as a class 6 or 7)
   5F Piece of Eight

Can I also get your opinion on what class this would be? Would it be closer to a class 4 now?

****

And those owned by the MCTC:

   4T2 Jon El Flurry
   5T Prince Fernando (considering relicensing as a class 6)

 

 

Lady of Madrice: Class 3

Far Horizon: Class 4

Sleeping Siren: Class 5

Contessa: Large 6 or small 7. I think 7 is most fitting.

Piece of Eight: Large 4 or small 5. Probably 5.

This/Wolf: Large class 3. I think her overall bulk is comparable to the Otter, although a bit taller. Could possibly be a small 4.

Jon El Flurry: Class 5, I would say.

Prince Fernando: Class 6 seems fine, but how does it compare to the Contessa?

On 15/05/2017 at 6:31 PM, Kwatchi said:

Here's the ships for my brother and I. Not interested in diving into the new stat system atm. 

Kwatchi:

Peregrine - Class 5LA - active

Lost Soul's Tide - dry dock/unlicensed

Sirrus - class 3T2 - active

 

GulagUrag:

Puck's Jest - Class 5HA - active

Night's Whisper - Class 2A - active

Migery - Class 5HA - drydock/licensed capture/MOC in progress

Peregrine: I would say class 4, as she isn't too bulky. Quite comparable to the Athena.

Lost Soul's Tide: Class 5

Sirrus: Small class 3 or large class 2

Puck's Jest: Class 4

Night's Whisper: Large class 1 or small class 2

Migery: Unknown ;)

On 15/05/2017 at 8:26 PM, Garmadon said:

Wait, what?  I didn't say that!  Or maybe I just misunderstood your question    Good point that there seems to be missing something about what the base upkeep is in the About Ships thread where it should be... If I recall correctly, however, it is 25% of the licence cost (will make sure and see to it that it's added if it is not already there, hidden somewhere or other ).

My ships:

Licenced:

Fog–Breaker - here (Currently licences as a 3F) - (Class 3, R3, M3, 1F, 1Cr, 3Ca, 4H)

Shooting Shuriken - here (Currently licenced as a 2F, free licence) - (Class 2, 3R, 4M, 0F, 1Cr, 2Ca, 2H)

Unlicenced:

The Henri - here (Class 7, 6R, 5M, 1F, 2Cr, 8Ca, H5)

Disembodied Licences:

Floating Eyepatch (Class 1WR, now simply a Class 1)

Plunging Dagger (Class 4A, now simply a Class 4)

Fog-Breaker: Small class 3

Shooting Shuriken: Large class 2

The Henri: Class 7

[Bregir]

On 15/05/2017 at 9:53 PM, pombe said:

Absolutely Fabulous 2T

Not sure how to handle this one, being a micro. Was there some reason it was a microship? I can't recall.

Also, you have the Wave of Knowledge, a fine example of a class 3.

On 15/05/2017 at 11:02 PM, Sir Stig said:

Winged Wisdom Former 2F

Silver Scythe Former 2F

Cold Heart 4A bought lisense, UNMOC'd

Agreed with both. Class 2.

On 16/05/2017 at 10:55 AM, SilentWolf said:

I will just list my ships and present status at the moment. I will update later once I have figured out what they should be in the new system. 
List of Ships Owned: 
Flying Colt 2WR [I believe this should remain a class 2]
Alexander 2F [This may qualify for a class 3]
Pinto Filly (sistership of the immediately captured Golden Filly) 5F [Based on the examples this should move down to a 4?]
Don Obello 5A [Feel it should still be a 5 ]

Octavia 5LA (captured license - unmocced) [maintain at 5]
Soupfish 4A (captured license - unmocced) [maintain at 4]
Nightmare 2A (purchased license - unmocced)  [maintain at 2]

Edit: Am I supposed to be deciding stat points now as well?

Flying Colt: Class 3

Alexander: Class 3

Pinto/Golden Filly: I agree - 4 is probably more fitting

Don Obello: Class 5

On 16/05/2017 at 5:28 PM, Umbra-Manis said:

My current ships, still trying to figure out what they convert to.

Golden Crescent 3T2

Aurei Lacerta 2T

Winger 2A (Unmocced Purchase)

Golden Crescent: Class 4

Aurei Lacerta: Class 3

On 31/05/2017 at 8:14 PM, MKJoshA said:

The following are the Sea Rat Faction's current ships. We will keep all the license levels the same unless someone thinks otherwise.

Active Ships Are:
Corporal Milton - 5HA
Hades' Trumpet - 5HA
HMS Pendragon (5HA)
Cardinal (5HA)
The Walrus Returns - 4A
Vagabond King - 4A
Lillydale - 4A
Capt’n Bones - 4A
Crow's Feet - 3A

Non-Active Ships Are:
Wolf II - 3A
Cadance - 4A
Puny Sparrow - 3A
Bon Voyage - 2A
Godfreed Faulk - 2F
unnamed - 1A

Pendragon: 5

Cardinal: Depends on where LS lands on this. Obviously, the sistership and the capture should be the same class! ;) (6 or 7.)

Walrus Returns: 4

Vagabond King: 4

The Wolf: Same as the Cardinal. Depends on Capt Wolf. (3 or 4)

On 31/05/2017 at 8:53 PM, MKJoshA said:

And here are all of my ships:

Freddy's Rowboat  - Class 0 Skiff - will keep the same

Golden Dragon  - Class 3A - will keep the same

Viper - Class 2A - will keep the same

Darting Frog - Class 4A - maybe change to a 5A?

Morning Fog - Class 5HA - maybe upgrade to a 7A?

Pineapple Revenge - Class 3A - will keep the same

Clearance - Class 4A - will keep the same

Tigerlily - Class 1WR - maybe upgrade to a 2WR?

Warped Wood - Class 4T2 - will keep the same

Priest's Bounty - Class 6HA - licensed and MOC'd - will keep the same - drydocked

Bombastic Pete - Class 4T2 - licensed, not MOC'd - drydocked

Queen Annetta's Price - Class 3T - licensed, not MOC'd - drydocked

La Oleon - Class 3A - Owner MKJoshA - captured by Mardier - potential sistership

El Polla - Class 2T - Owner MKJoshA - lost at sea - potential sistership

Rowboat: 0

Golden Dragon: 4

Viper: large 4 or small 5

Darting Frog: large 6 or small 7.

Morning Fog: Small-ish class 7

Pineapple Revenge: Large 3 or small 4

Clearance: 4

Tigerlily: I think she is a bit small for a class 2, but then again, she is a bit large for a class 1 too.

Warped wood: 4

Priests bounty: 6

Bombastic Pete: class 4 license

Queen Annetta's Price: class 3 license

La Oleon: Class 4

El Polla: Class 3

 

On 31/05/2017 at 9:42 PM, Legostone said:

@MKJoshA Have fun paying 890 DBs in Upkeep a month :D

name	class	price	upkeep (base)	total upkeep
	30		596	890
Freddys Rowboat	0	24	6	8.959731544
Golden Dragon	3	200	50	74.66442953
Viper	2	120	30	44.79865772
Darting Frog	5	420	105	156.795302
Morning Fog	7	700	175	261.3255034
Pineapple Revenge	3	200	50	74.66442953
Clearance	4	300	75	111.9966443
Tigerlily	2	120	30	44.79865772
Warped Wood	4	300	75	111.99

Update for the Eslandolan Fleet:

Dread Treasure II	5HA -> 7	Maxim I	topic
Oscuridad	5HA -> 6	Legostone	topic
La Raya Venenosa	5HA -> 6	Legostone	topic
Golden Grasshopper	5HA -> 6	Gedren_y	topic
Stormbringer II	5HA -> 6	Capt Wolf	topic
Beluga II	5HA	Maxim I	topic
Cannonball	5HA	capture
Logan's Nightmare	5A	capture
Victoria	5LA	Legostone	topic
Firefly	5LA	Gedren_y	topic
Argenta	5LA	capture
La Salamandra	4A	Kabel	topic
Asesino II	4A	Phadeout	topic
The Gallant	4A	Captain Green Hair	topic
Maiden of the Deep	4A	capture, mocced	topic
Blood Diamond	4A	capture
Plump Patty	4A	capture
Long Beard	4A	capture
Inflexible	4A	capture

Dread Treasure links to the Margot?

Oscuridad: 6

La Raya: 6

Golden Grasshopper: 6

Stormbringer: 6

Beluga II: 5. But I know I evaluated this one somewhere else. Is it Maxim's or Eslandola's?

Victoria: 4

Firefly: 4

Salamandra: 3

Asesino: 3

Tha Gallant/El Matador: 3

Maiden of the Deep: 5

[Mike S]

Is there a stat form somewhere?

[Bregir]

2 hours ago, Mike S said:

Is there a stat form somewhere?

If you are referring to a new license form, then no. It is still under way. :) 

[Mike S]

10 minutes ago, Bregir said:

If you are referring to a new license form, then no. It is still under way. :) 

So are my 3 ship's classes staying the same?

Black Marlin class 2

Sulky Harlequin class 6

Armina class 5

[Capt Wolf]

5 hours ago, Bregir said:

Far Horizon: Class 4

This is the only one of my ships that I'll argue. Looking at the Lady of Madrice, Wolf, and Far Horizon, each is clearly a larger class than the previous one. The Far Horizon is also much closer to the size of the Prince Fernando than may be immediately apparent due to different approaches in illusion scale. So I really think this one is a class 5.

5 hours ago, Bregir said:

Contessa: Large 6 or small 7. I think 7 is most fitting.

7 it is!

5 hours ago, Bregir said:

This/Wolf: Large class 3. I think her overall bulk is comparable to the Otter, although a bit taller. Could possibly be a small 4.

 

5 hours ago, Bregir said:

The Wolf: ... Depends on Capt Wolf. (3 or 4)

I agree this one is a 'tweener, but when compared with my other ships, I feel it needs to go as a small class 4.

That covers my ships. I'll address the ESL fleet later, with one exception:

5 hours ago, Bregir said:

Dread Treasure links to the Margot?

Yes, my understanding is that they are one in the same.

----------

Thanks for spending all the time to review the ships! Quite the time-consuming task. Much appreciated!

[gedren_y]

4 hours ago, Bregir said:

Firefly: 4

I would dispute this. I think her 5 rating should stand. The Firefly has a longer deck and hull, more sails, and more arms than the Consort's Duty (already classed as a 5). The Consort's Duty only appears longer because of the over-long bowsprit and overhanging sail.

[Capt Wolf]

May I suggest that, given some of the subjectiveness of the classification system, and the general impression that conversions to the new system seem to be resulting in a ship being rated at the same class or a class higher (or more in the case of the really big ships), that it might be a good rule of thumb that ships can remain at their previous class unless the owner desires the smaller class? Just an idea, but it would avoid any complaints about ships being downgraded.

[Legostone]

7 hours ago, Bregir said:

@Legostone:

Ok, that was a lot of ships! (Luckily, they are all a pleasure to behold!)

Generally, I feel like you might be overestimating your vessel a bit. Let me go through them one by one:

• Rojo Tormento: Being very lightly built and not that large generally, I think she should be a class 4.
• Dragon's Revenge: Agreed. Class 6
• Raenette: Agreed. Class 2
• Esmaralda: Agreed. Class 5
• Arkady: Agreed. Class 2
• Puppy Hustler: Lets stick to 3 with this one, although it is a bit irregular being a microlicense.
• El Rubi: Agreed. Class 4
• Green Winds: Between 4 and 5. Could be a 5.
• Colour of the Wind: I would say she is a class 4. Lightly built.
• La Mystique: More comparable in size to the Otter, thus a class 3.
• Reventazon: As is. Class 4. (And I believe these microlicenses are unsistershippable. Unless one earns a new microlicense, of course)
• Santiago: Class 7, no doubt.
• Cardinal: Hmm, I am on the fence about this one. Is it really comparable to the Margot? Only the largest frigates would fall in class 7. (I think Body made a very large one) It is a bit hard for me to figure out - is she considerably larger than the Dragon's revenge, for instance, or basicly comparable? I agree she would probably be a large class 6, but she would also be a small class 7. Not sure what to make of it.
• Wringe II: Go, class 2.
• Unmoced licenses maintain their class.

 

 

First - my old class 5Fs (Rojo Tormento, Piece of Eight, Green Winds and Colour of the Wind) are all almost identical in size, even if they don't look that way. Green Winds being an exception, being a little bit longer than the others (Rojo Tormento is 60 studs long, Piece of Eight 65, Colour of the Wind around 63, Green Winds closer to 70 if I remember correctly). All these were (or intended as) class 5F vessels, so I would really prefer them to stay class 5. Currently I only have a comparision pic of the latest two (Piece of Eight and Rojo Tormento):

A 12 gun Xebec and Jon El Flurry (which you suggested as a class 5) are also in the picture. Rojo Tormento is about 4 studs shorter than the Piece of Eight, but still decently longer than the Jon El Flurry and Xebec (which I had intended as a class 4A equivalent).

 

The Cardinal was always intended as a large, 36 gun Frigate, one that snugly fits onto my shelf. I honestly couldn't fit a bigger ship in there...

Compared to the Dragon's Revenge - the Cardinal is much bigger - the Dragon's Revenge is a 3 3/4 midsection ship, while the Cardinal would be comparable to a 5 midsection ship (just like Maxim's Margot and the Santiago). And again - can't we just follow the spirit of the builder? The Cardinal was intended, all along, as a fast class 7 frigate (even before I knew details about the new system), with 36 guns.

 

Another thing you should keep in mind here - people build in different scales. You may have noticed that I keep my ships with fairly low decks and small spacings between gunports (usually sitting at ~3 studs + the sides of windowframes), which has fittingly been called (I think by Captain Dee) Minifig Illusion-Illusion scale. I can't work in the regular scale (I think I have scrapped about 4 ships in a slightly larger scale this year alone), and I really dislike tearing down my ships (I currently have about 10 of my ships assembled and don't plan on tearing down any of them any time soon), which limits the size I can with for my ships (also space) - again working with me with my ship scale. If you really want me to I can put together a 9 midsection based first rate class 10 on prefabs with premade rigging in about 10 hours, or spend 3 times+ as much time on a frigate which I consider a class 7.

 

I also agree with @Capt Wolf on not downgrading ships except on request. Here I will jump in and agree that the Victoria can get one.