New Ship Classes - The Transition

[Capt Wolf]

Just now, Garmadon said:

I couldn't find anything in the About Ships thread (or here, for that matter) specifying that the "base upkeep" is, in fact, equal to 25% of the ship's licencing cost

I hadn't noticed that that is the math of it, but you are correct! That makes adding things up much easier. I was just going off the chart that lists the costs. Thanks for pointing that out!

[pombe]

Absolutely Fabulous 2T

[Kai NRG]

@Garmadon @Capt Wolf - thanks for the explanations re the upkeep cost!

2 hours ago, MKJoshA said:

The rule should say "level." It's supposed to be 10 owned/managed ships regardless of level. So you could own 10 class 9 vessels and still be able to sistership them if you lost 1 or more. But if you owned 11, you couldn't sistership until you were back down to 10 or fewer. @Kolonialbeamter can you fix that?

If that's the case than the rule shouldn't say level... it should say, if you own 10 or less ships, you can sistership a lost ship.  But that seems awfully broad.  Are you sure that's a correct interpretation?

[Capt Wolf]

4 minutes ago, Kai NRG said:

2 hours ago, MKJoshA said:

The rule should say "level." It's supposed to be 10 owned/managed ships regardless of level. So you could own 10 class 9 vessels and still be able to sistership them if you lost 1 or more. But if you owned 11, you couldn't sistership until you were back down to 10 or fewer. @Kolonialbeamter can you fix that?

If that's the case than the rule shouldn't say level... it should say, if you own 10 or less ships, you can sistership a lost ship.  But that seems awfully broad.  Are you sure that's a correct interpretation?

My understanding was that it IS ship levels, not ships.

[Sir Stig]

Winged Wisdom Former 2F

Silver Scythe Former 2F

Cold Heart 4A bought lisense, UNMOC'd

[Sir Stig]

Did I understand it correctly that we can move points around as we please?

So, for example, I could make silver scythe Like this (moved from firepower and crew to cargo):

Class	Cost	Stat Points	Range	Maneuver	Firepower	Crew	Cargo	Hull	Sum
			(1-6)	(1-6)	(0-12)	(0-12)	(0-15)	(0-12)
2	120	12	3	5	0	0	2	2	12

And the Winged Wisdom like this (moved points from firepower, crew and hull to cargo:

Class	Cost	Stat Points	Range	Maneuver	Firepower	Crew	Cargo	Hull	Sum
			(1-6)	(1-6)	(0-12)	(0-12)	(0-15)	(0-12)
2	120	12	3	3	0	0	5	1	12

Reference:

Class	Cost	Stat Points	Range	Maneuver	Firepower	Crew	Cargo	Hull	Sum
			(1-6)	(1-6)	(0-12)	(0-12)	(0-15)	(0-12)
2	120	12	3	4	2	1	0	2	12

If I understood correctly this is a massive improvement, because the ships can be tailored to fit. Both ships are intended to rely on escorts, and move goods. One is a fast vessel, the other frail and sails bad, because she has every possible space filled with cargo.

[Capt Wolf]

18 minutes ago, Sir Stig said:

Did I understand it correctly that we can move points around as we please?

Yep, that's the idea.  

Just don't exceed the total points for the class, and make sure the numbers are in the allowable range for each stat.

[Legostone]

@Sir Stig The given ships are just examples - you can place your points around however you want to. Theoretically you can put together a class 3:

cargo barge with:

1range/1maneuver/0firepower/0crew/12cargo/1hull

or a very maneuverable patrol craft: 

1range/6maneuver/3firepower/2crew/3hull

or a well rounded vessel:

3range/4maneuver/2firepower/2crew/2cargo/2hull

or a merchant ready for escort:

4range/3maneuver/0firepower/1crew/5cargo/2hull

[Sir Stig]

Awesome! 

Edited May 15, 2017 by Sir Stig

[Bregir]

@Sir Stig has the right of - and that is what is meant to be the awesome part! You can customize your ships (almost) freely! No two ships will be the same! Wow, much customize!

Regarding Sistershipping:

Please hold on this issue. Apparantly, we (the courts) are not yet clear on this issue. We will seek to resolve our misunderstandings and disagreement and get back to you all with a ruling.

[Maxim I]

Just a question,

How quickly/easily can one transform a vessel? Is there a transform cost (class*10)?

For example, can I use Margot as a huge trade vessel when removing most of her guns?

[Bregir]

Just now, Maxim I said:

Just a question,

How quickly/easily can one transform a vessel? Is there a transform cost (class*10)?

For example, can I use Margot as a huge trade vessel when removing most of her guns?

This is a feature we will be looking at once the system is up and running.

[Legostone]

I know I have already argued against this upkeep here before, but I'm just gonna post one more thing for this. Given that you limit yourself to 350 DBs in Upkeep, you basically have this choice (I know there are more classes in-between, but this shows the point):
Do I 
a) license 23 class 1 vessels? 9 upgrade points each
b) license 7 class 3 vessels? 15 upgrade points each
c) license 2 class 7 vessels? 27 upgrade points each
d) license 1 class 10 vessel? 39 upgrade points

While I see the point of making these ships expensive, I still feel like this is way too much. 

I would really like to build bigger vessels, but given this system, there isn't much of a point given how much more expensive they are. I'd rather build 3 medium vessels than a large one if it goes like this. 

 

Also, can someone give a reason why the upkeep goes up this way? It doesn't make sense to me really. I see why it's there and why it doesn't need to be tiny, but 3/4s of a ships price in upkeep is just crazy. I don't mind 1/4, but any more than that is very limiting for those who want to set up their own fleet. And nobody here come with realism - if we want to go this route we take 1/4 of the price as default upkeep, and add some other sources of running costs to ships - lets say the ship runs into a storm and suddenly you would have to pay 1/2 the price to get it going again (and this wouldn't be an automatic cost - you would have to pay it once you want to use the ship again), or maybe even add the option of getting damaged in Battles (so ships that end up in battles have to pay something to remain fit for the next month). 

Edited May 16, 2017 by Legostone

[SilentWolf]

I will just list my ships and present status at the moment. I will update later once I have figured out what they should be in the new system. 
List of Ships Owned: 
Flying Colt 2WR [I believe this should remain a class 2]
Alexander 2F [This may qualify for a class 3]
Pinto Filly (sistership of the immediately captured Golden Filly) 5F [Based on the examples this should move down to a 4?]
Don Obello 5A [Feel it should still be a 5 ]

Octavia 5LA (captured license - unmocced) [maintain at 5]
Soupfish 4A (captured license - unmocced) [maintain at 4]
Nightmare 2A (purchased license - unmocced)  [maintain at 2]

Edit: Am I supposed to be deciding stat points now as well?

Edited May 16, 2017 by SilentWolf

[Umbra-Manis]

My current ships, still trying to figure out what they convert to.

Golden Crescent 3T2

Aurei Lacerta 2T

Winger 2A (Unmocced Purchase)

[Capt Wolf]

23 hours ago, Bregir said:

The pictures are broken in most of your original topics, Capt Wolf! Otherwise, I would have happily given my input, but now, all is see is "something.jpg". Would this be possible to fix?

FYI, pictures are back now.

[Bregir]

9 hours ago, Legostone said:

Also, can someone give a reason why the upkeep goes up this way?

It goes up this way by design. We want to balance out the rich and the poor somewhat, and give a natural limit for active ships each MRCA. And more importantly, we want to make it a choice whether to send out ships or not. The levels may be adjusted, but not until we have tried this out. If you have a suggestion on how we can better achieve the same effects in an efficient, just, and automatable manner, feel free to ship me or someone else in leadership a pm, so we can take it up. For now, however, I suggest we go with what the Courts have decided, at least until the system has been tried out.

2 hours ago, Capt Wolf said:

FYI, pictures are back now.

Great ;) When I find the time, I will try to go through the ships posted so far, including yours. :)

[Kolonialbeamter]

Here's the final edition of the sistershipping rule:

All ship owning entities may, at any one point in time, hold sisterships up to 20 shiplevels. (Eg. 1*class 7, 2*class 5, and 1*class 3). In other words, if sistershipping a lost vessel brings your total number of sisterships over 20 shiplevels, you cannot sistership that vessel.

 

not really tl; but still dr: 20 is the new 10 

[Kai NRG]

Wait, so now the question is how many sisterships we have at a time, instead of how many ships period?  e.g. I could have 20 levels of original ships but still sistership another ship, provided I don't own sisterships to the level of 20?  Is that active sisterships only (i.e. if a sistership sinks, she no longer counts toward the 20)?

[Bregir]

16 minutes ago, Kai NRG said:

Wait, so now the question is how many sisterships we have at a time, instead of how many ships period?  e.g. I could have 20 levels of original ships but still sistership another ship, provided I don't own sisterships to the level of 20?  Is that active sisterships only (i.e. if a sistership sinks, she no longer counts toward the 20)?

Yes, that is exactly how it is to be understood, and what I believe the text of the law states :)

 

[gedren_y]

I had to reread it a couple of times before I understood it. To determine the amount of sisterships that can be held by an one entity (player, nation, or TC), the levels of said ships, when added together, cannot exceed 20. The example given is four sisterships. 7+5+5+3=20 That means that the size of the ships determines how many sisterships can be held at any given time.

One issue; would the purchase of a ship that was sistershipped count towards the buyer's sistership count? It shouldn't, correct?

On another matter; is there any kind of timetable as to when the new ship licenses will be ready?

Edited May 29, 2017 by gedren_y

[Legostone]

1 hour ago, gedren_y said:

I had to reread it a couple of times before I understood it. To determine the amount of sisterships that can be held by an one entity (player, nation, or TC), the levels of said ships, when added together, cannot exceed 20. The example given is four sisterships. 7+5+5+3=20 That means that the size of the ships determines how many sisterships can be held at any given time.

One issue; would the purchase of a ship that was sistershipped count towards the buyer's sistership count? It shouldn't, correct?

On another matter; is there any kind of timetable as to when the new ship licenses will be ready?

Why shouldn't a bought ship that is already a sistership count towards the limit of the new owner? The moment you buy a ship from someone you technically also license it - so usual rules apply. The previous owner doesn't pay your upkeep either  (although I think there are many who would wish that:P)

[Capt Wolf]

2 hours ago, gedren_y said:

would the purchase of a ship that was sistershipped count towards the buyer's sistership count?

Yes, it does count against your sistership limit.

2 hours ago, gedren_y said:

To determine the amount of sisterships that can be held by an one entity (player, nation, or TC), the levels of said ships, when added together, cannot exceed 20. ... That means that the size of the ships determines how many sisterships can be held at any given time.

That is correct.

[MKJoshA]

The following are the Sea Rat Faction's current ships. We will keep all the license levels the same unless someone thinks otherwise.

Active Ships Are:
Corporal Milton - 5HA
Hades' Trumpet - 5HA
HMS Pendragon (5HA)
Cardinal (5HA)
The Walrus Returns - 4A
Vagabond King - 4A
Lillydale - 4A
Capt’n Bones - 4A
Crow's Feet - 3A

Non-Active Ships Are:
Wolf II - 3A
Cadance - 4A
Puny Sparrow - 3A
Bon Voyage - 2A
Godfreed Faulk - 2F
unnamed - 1A

[MKJoshA]

And here are all of my ships:

Freddy's Rowboat  - Class 0 Skiff - will keep the same

Golden Dragon  - Class 3A - will keep the same

Viper - Class 2A - will keep the same

Darting Frog - Class 4A - maybe change to a 5A?

Morning Fog - Class 5HA - maybe upgrade to a 7A?

Pineapple Revenge - Class 3A - will keep the same

Clearance - Class 4A - will keep the same

Tigerlily - Class 1WR - maybe upgrade to a 2WR?

Warped Wood - Class 4T2 - will keep the same

Priest's Bounty - Class 6HA - licensed and MOC'd - will keep the same - drydocked

Bombastic Pete - Class 4T2 - licensed, not MOC'd - drydocked

Queen Annetta's Price - Class 3T - licensed, not MOC'd - drydocked

La Oleon - Class 3A - Owner MKJoshA - captured by Mardier - potential sistership

El Polla - Class 2T - Owner MKJoshA - lost at sea - potential sistership