"Castle lines never die" or "what made me change my mind and believe in new exciting castle lines".

[Digger of Bricks]

19 hours ago, Nabii said:

As others have pointed out (thanks guys) just because we haven't found a way for the theme to work it doesn't mean we haven't used the aesthetic of Steampunk in various places, so it seemed safe for me to use as an example. As for what tests well and what has failed, of course I can't go into details, and even if I did the landscape of what works for kids imaginations changes over time as popular culture; TV shows, movies, games all introduce new ideas to each new generation. For example an 8 year old today was only three when The Avengers came out and was born the year Iron Man debuted so the Marvel universe is not fresh to them, but new heroes can make it exciting. That said as the last 'castle' line was in 2013, it's already been four years and a new castle theme might seem exciting and new to a kid soon - if we ever do one again that is. :P

I'm still looking for the early concept art of NEXO Knights BTW, when I find it I'll put a link in the thread.

I'll be looking forward to the concept art, that's cool to know, thanks! 

By the way @Nabii, how far did you guys get with testing for the Steampunk genre? Was it just testing storyboards/storylines with kids, or did you even get as far as developing set prototypes?

[MAB]

2 hours ago, Artanis I said:

^ I know what you're saying, but to me it feels like buying an entire new car because it has nice pistons, when everything else about it is superfluous for you. There is not much "bright side" other than picking a few bits up on the secondary market. Emphasis on the word "few".

Actually, the "bright side" is that I have more money for new guitar pedals and cymbals...

The difference with the market for cars is that there are not loads of brand new cars from 4-10 years ago available for sale. Whereas for lego sets there is.

[BrickJagger]

I don't think this has been discussed over here yet but in this thread Sir Von Lego says that there will be a line of five 60th anniversary sets next year. It would make a lot of sense for one of those to be Castle-themed. 

[Digger of Bricks]

10 hours ago, BrickJagger said:

I don't think this has been discussed over here yet but in this thread Sir Von Lego says that there will be a line of five 60th anniversary sets next year. It would make a lot of sense for one of those to be Castle-themed. 

Wow, this thread hasn't been bumped in awhile!

I checked out The Brick Fan yesterday, and he has reported on these rumors citing a new video from @just2good doing the same. 

 

[x105Black]

10 hours ago, Digger of Bricks said:

Wow, this thread hasn't been bumped in awhile!

Yes!  It's wonderful.

I'm really eager to see what they have in store for us!

[BrickJagger]

If there is in fact a Castle-themed set, what do you think we're in for heraldry-wise? I suspect they'll make a set with a couple of Crusaders and Black Falcons, but I would appreciate some new designs. 

[Artanis I]

It could be anything, but maybe they might give us something reminiscent of the yellow castle heraldry designs. Isn't it the 40th anniversary of that set?

[x105Black]

7 hours ago, Artanis I said:

It could be anything, but maybe they might give us something reminiscent of the yellow castle heraldry designs. Isn't it the 40th anniversary of that set?

That's what I'm hoping for.  I'd love to see the classic 1978 Castle 375 revisited.

[ElectroDiva]

Hi All - @Servertijd shared a very interesting piece of news on another thread:

 

http://deadline.com/2017/11/lord-of-the-rings-series-eyed-warner-bros-tv-amazon-1202201636/

 

It appears that the LOTR rights are being shopped around for a possible TV series (for a frankly eye popping sum of money). 

 

I thought the LOTR series was done from a TLG perspective given the battle between the Tolkien family and the Hollywood studios but surely this means a reboot of TLGs LOTR line might now be a possibility?

 

[BrickJagger]

1 hour ago, ElectroDiva said:

Hi All - @Servertijd shared a very interesting piece of news on another thread:

 

http://deadline.com/2017/11/lord-of-the-rings-series-eyed-warner-bros-tv-amazon-1202201636/

 

It appears that the LOTR rights are being shopped around for a possible TV series (for a frankly eye popping sum of money). 

 

I thought the LOTR series was done from a TLG perspective given the battle between the Tolkien family and the Hollywood studios but surely this means a reboot of TLGs LOTR line might now be a possibility?

 

No. First of all I'm fairly sure that the LOTR licensed expired last year, but even if it's still around I highly, highly doubt that Lego brings it back. The first line did not sell very well, so I don't see them going through the process of bringing it back over a TV series. 

Edited November 4, 2017 by BrickJagger

[Agent Kallus]

What I'd like Lego to do is not exactly a castle line but a miscellaneous line, with sets spread across a variety of themes, it wouldn't need many new prints, say one or two per set (many modern sets have exclusive prints anyway) as the other figs could use older existing ones so the variety of themes shouldn't have increase costs too much.  

Sometimes its better to show than tell so below are some example waves to demonstrate the idea e.g.

wave 1                                                  wave 2                                         wave 3                                                    wave 4

£20-Safari car                                    £15-Orc ambush                           £10- Roman battle-pack                           £20-Crocodile encounter
£20 Raptor chase                              £25-Spooky crypt                          £20-Rock monster battle                          £25-knights camp
£30-Space scouter                            £40-Sphinx                                    £35-Siege tower                                       £30-Secret Agent Submarine
£45-Green dragon fort                       £60-Alien lander                            £50-Deep sea headquarters                    £40-medieval goat farm
£90-Pirate ship                                  £80-Roller-coaster                         £75-Redcoat port                                     £55-Haunted castle

[Digger of Bricks]

2 hours ago, Agent Kallus said:

What I'd like Lego to do is not exactly a castle line but a miscellaneous line, with sets spread across a variety of themes, it wouldn't need many new prints, say one or two per set (many modern sets have exclusive prints anyway) as the other figs could use older existing ones so the variety of themes shouldn't have increase costs too much.  

Essentially, a minifigure based playset theme open to nearly everything and anything genre-wise. I like that.  

Despite its set limitations and formula (e.g. only usage of preexisting minifigure prints and non-specialized construction parts), that's what I like about the Creator theme. We definitely could use more evergreen themes that don't box themselves in with a particular time period, setting, or premise. Such a theme could also support one-off sets based upon a genre that otherwise could not that be built off of for an entire theme itself, much like the Collectable Minifigure line.

[x105Black]

32 minutes ago, Digger of Bricks said:

Essentially, a minifigure based playset theme open to nearly everything and anything genre-wise. I like that.  

Despite its set limitations and formula (e.g. only usage of preexisting minifigure prints and non-specialized construction parts), that's what I like about the Creator theme. We definitely could use more evergreen themes that don't box themselves in with a particular time period, setting, or premise. Such a theme could also support one-off sets based upon a genre that otherwise could not that be built off of for an entire theme itself, much like the Collectable Minifigure line.

Those limitations are exactly why Castle sets in the Creator theme would do nothing for me.

[Hart New Bob]

6 hours ago, Agent Kallus said:

What I'd like Lego to do is not exactly a castle line but a miscellaneous line, with sets spread across a variety of themes, it wouldn't need many new prints, say one or two per set (many modern sets have exclusive prints anyway) as the other figs could use older existing ones so the variety of themes shouldn't have increase costs too much.  

Sometimes its better to show than tell so below are some example waves to demonstrate the idea e.g.

wave 1                                                  wave 2                                         wave 3                                                    wave 4

£20-Safari car                                    £15-Orc ambush                           £10- Roman battle-pack                           £20-Crocodile encounter
£20 Raptor chase                              £25-Spooky crypt                          £20-Rock monster battle                          £25-knights camp
£30-Space scouter                            £40-Sphinx                                    £35-Siege tower                                       £30-Secret Agent Submarine
£45-Green dragon fort                       £60-Alien lander                            £50-Deep sea headquarters                    £40-medieval goat farm
£90-Pirate ship                                  £80-Roller-coaster                         £75-Redcoat port                                     £55-Haunted castle

Oh man, those are awesome ideas!  That redcoat port and Knight's camp caught my eye.....(Maybe (and hopefully) Mark Stafford (He is a member) can see your post and take notes)

[Digger of Bricks]

11 hours ago, x105Black said:

Those limitations are exactly why Castle sets in the Creator theme would do nothing for me.

But in theory, the Creator theme is the closest thing we have to what @Agent Kallus had proposed, despite those limitations.

Maybe, perhaps instead of reinventing the Creator theme, Lego could introduce another subtheme of Creator slotted above the three in one Creator theme in age range and slotted below the Expert subtheme in advanced techniques. I suppose such a subtheme would be named "Creator : Advanced", featuring MOC-quality builds and a price range for the most part sitting below $100. Like the Expert subtheme, it would include rarer colored and specialized parts; but unlike the Expert subtheme, they also would include multiple exclusive figures not made with preexisting inventory prints. And again, most importantly, the subtheme would be a vessel for those themes and genres where an entire theme could not be viable for them at the time.

Just think of the possibilities! I mean, perhaps the subtheme could even serve as a proving ground for those themes and genres where there is uncertainty about their success in the current market, even genres which have never been tested out by Lego before. 

[x105Black]

OK now that's a good idea.  As much as I want a full-blown Castle theme, I'd be very happy to see nice builds with new pieces and minifigures at a rate of 1 or 2 sets a wave.  I'd also be happy that people could get the same satisfaction from their favorite old themes like Adventurers, Pirates, Space, and more.  Just a note, I didn't see Western in that list.  I think that was a bit of an oversight, especially with the variety that was included.

[ElectroDiva]

I really like @Agent Kallus 's idea of a mixed price miscellaneous theme for the unloved themes of old - maybe a "Creator History" theme? It would be free to roam different time periods and bring in the odd fantasy element.

 

Here's my wave 1 and 2 set suggestions for something like that:

Wave 1: 

-Pirate battle pack - £10 set with 4 assorted pirates 

-Comanche camp - £25 set with a teepee, horse and 3 minifigs (2 male warriors and a female)

-Colosseum Clash - £50-£60 set with a quarter of a detailed colosseum build and 5 minifigs (2 citizens, 1 senator/noble and 2 gladiators with extra weapons for customisation). Works as a standalone build but you can buy 4 for a full colosseum 

-Viking Longboat - £100 set with a classic Viking longboat and about 8 male and female warriors complete with different faction shields

-King Arthur's Castle - £150-£200 set with a detailed castle build (incl. round table), 13 minifigs (King Arthur and his 12 knights) and a couple of horses

 

Wave 2:

-Castle Battle pack - £15 set with 4 different soldier minifigs and a horse (buy a few to get mounts for the above knights :)

-Roman Legion - £25 set with 1 mounted cavalry, 4 legionaries and a small siege weapon

-Viking Village Hut - £50/£60 set with a 3 in 1 variable hut build, 3/4 peasant minifigs and a farm animal or two  (can buy a few to create a small village)

-Frontier Fort - £100 set with a western fort build, 2 mounted cavalry, 2 infantry and a couple of civilians

-Royal Frigate - £150-£200 battleship with 8-10 naval minifigs (I was going to go with a pirate ship here but we have quite a few of those already and they need a faction to fight :)

 

Each wave would rotate the price point for each subtheme, and at the lower end of the range would be designed in such a way that it is attractive to buy multiples.

 

[Digger of Bricks]

21 hours ago, x105Black said:

OK now that's a good idea.  As much as I want a full-blown Castle theme, I'd be very happy to see nice builds with new pieces and minifigures at a rate of 1 or 2 sets a wave.  I'd also be happy that people could get the same satisfaction from their favorite old themes like Adventurers, Pirates, Space, and more.  Just a note, I didn't see Western in that list.  I think that was a bit of an oversight, especially with the variety that was included.

Of course, my ulterior reason in wishing for such an open theme would be for the line to introduce a variety of sets based upon alternate historical genres, such as Retro Futurism, Steampunk, Dieselpunk, Atompunk, Decopunk, etc. 

Also, a theme like this could feature sets that could complement the Collectable Minifigure theme. Some sets would feature builds complementary to specific CMF archetypes and minifigures supplementary to those CMFs.

Edited November 6, 2017 by Digger of Bricks

[MAB]

On 04/11/2017 at 11:11 PM, Agent Kallus said:

What I'd like Lego to do is not exactly a castle line but a miscellaneous line, with sets spread across a variety of themes, it wouldn't need many new prints, say one or two per set (many modern sets have exclusive prints anyway) as the other figs could use older existing ones so the variety of themes shouldn't have increase costs too much.  

Sometimes its better to show than tell so below are some example waves to demonstrate the idea e.g.

wave 1                                                  wave 2                                         wave 3                                                    wave 4

£20-Safari car                                    £15-Orc ambush                           £10- Roman battle-pack                           £20-Crocodile encounter
£20 Raptor chase                              £25-Spooky crypt                          £20-Rock monster battle                          £25-knights camp
£30-Space scouter                            £40-Sphinx                                    £35-Siege tower                                       £30-Secret Agent Submarine
£45-Green dragon fort                       £60-Alien lander                            £50-Deep sea headquarters                    £40-medieval goat farm
£90-Pirate ship                                  £80-Roller-coaster                         £75-Redcoat port                                     £55-Haunted castle

The problem I see with something like that is that it is not a theme. It is just a collection of random stuff and not that different to what they currently do if you just pick random sets from different themes (although the subjects will be different). This would make it hard to market it and encourage future sales from the "theme" on the back of previous sales. It would probably also cause buyer confusion - why is a pirate ship in the same collection as a dinosaur and spaceship?

I prefer to see a theme as a whole and decide whether or not to buy into it. For example, a Roman battle pack is nice, but not so useful if there are no enemies to fight against or no other city or population to defend. I'd want to know what else there is likely to be before investing in a large Roman army. Plus, marketing a theme is probably going to be more successful than an individual one-off set or collection of disparate sets. If a Roman theme will not be financially viable, why would a Roman battle pack sold in the same collection as a deep sea headquarters?

[Lyichir]

Just now, MAB said:

The problem I see with something like that is that it is not a theme. It is just a collection of random stuff and not that different to what they currently do if you just pick random sets from different themes (although the subjects will be different). This would make it hard to market it and encourage future sales from the "theme" on the back of previous sales. It would probably also cause buyer confusion - why is a pirate ship in the same collection as a dinosaur and spaceship?

I prefer to see a theme as a whole and decide whether or not to buy into it. For example, a Roman battle pack is nice, but not so useful if there are no enemies to fight against or no other city or population to defend. I'd want to know what else there is likely to be before investing in a large Roman army. Plus, marketing a theme is probably going to be more successful than an individual one-off set or collection of disparate sets. If a Roman theme will not be financially viable, why would a Roman battle pack sold in the same collection as a deep sea headquarters?

Well said. I considered making a comment to that effect earlier, but decided it was probably someone else's turn to be the wet blanket.

A "theme" like this would offer few of the advantages of a theme in general—not only would it not drive collectibility, but it would not necessarily be able to make the most out of new molds, recolors, and printed parts or figure parts, since the subject matter would differ so greatly across all the sets. I think there are ways in which that drawback could be lessened slightly—for instance, tying the various sets together with a unifying through-line like a "time travel" story, consistent main characters, and perhaps a specific set of "artifacts" for them (and buyers) to collect from each time period.

[Digger of Bricks]

1 minute ago, MAB said:

The problem I see with something like that is that it is not a theme. It is just a collection of random stuff and not that different to what they currently do if you just pick random sets from different themes (although the subjects will be different). This would make it hard to market it and encourage future sales from the "theme" on the back of previous sales. It would probably also cause buyer confusion - why is a pirate ship in the same collection as a dinosaur and spaceship?

Essentially, the theme would be a clearing house for genres that otherwise would not be viable for an entire standalone theme. That's why I cited the Creator theme as an example, it has no known boundaries as to what the theme would be able to cover.

Also, these sets would not be standalone within the theme if the set and/or sets prove to be popular compared to other subthemes within it, spawning successor sets in the following years. Again, it also would prove the popularity of that subtheme if successful, therefore potentially producing a breakoff theme as a result.  If the subtheme does not fly, they would simply move on to other ideas.

Just now, Lyichir said:

A "theme" like this would offer few of the advantages of a theme in general—not only would it not drive collectibility, but it would not necessarily be able to make the most out of new molds, recolors, and printed parts or figure parts, since the subject matter would differ so greatly across all the sets.

As far as new molds, particularly for minifigures, I think such a theme should just stick with recolors of preexisting inventory to avoid that issue, much like Creator. New prints, on the other hand, wouldn't be as big of a deal as new molds I think.

[rodiziorobs]

1 hour ago, Lyichir said:

This would make it hard to market it and encourage future sales from the "theme" on the back of previous sales. It would probably also cause buyer confusion - why is a pirate ship in the same collection as a dinosaur and spaceship?

 

1 hour ago, Lyichir said:

I think there are ways in which that drawback could be lessened slightly—for instance, tying the various sets together with a unifying through-line like a "time travel" story, consistent main characters, and perhaps a specific set of "artifacts" for them (and buyers) to collect from each time period.

It's like 1996 all over again...(not in a  way but in a  way).

[MAB]

4 hours ago, Digger of Bricks said:

Essentially, the theme would be a clearing house for genres that otherwise would not be viable for an entire standalone theme. That's why I cited the Creator theme as an example, it has no known boundaries as to what the theme would be able to cover.

 

1

I guess the question then is does LEGO need to do it. Not viable for a full theme sounds a bit like "we cannot be bothered to develop a whole theme". Do they really need to pump out lots of clearance ideas? I imagine they have enough full theme ideas not to.

Also, while the subject matter of the creator theme is huge, I think there is a very consistent theme that runs though it - creativity based on a selection of parts. The common build three different things from a selection of bricks. Given this selection of bricks, you can make ... a car, a dinosaur and a sea-plane. Or this set ... a jeep, a helicopter and a hovercraft. As soon as minifigures start being included, the sets tend to get pigeonholed into a certain style, even for fairly generic figures.

 

[gedren_y]

Some time ago, in another thread, I suggested a Fables theme.

On ‎9‎/‎6‎/‎2017 at 11:24 PM, gedren_y said:

I see a number of good ideas, but if we can set aside the name Castle for a spell, I have an idea.

Fables, a theme centered around classical tales from various cultures. Mostly folklore, but some based on real historical figures and events.

Examples:

The Labors of Heracles (proper Grecian name) - A full wave could come out of this.
Jason and the Argonauts - A few sets including the Argo.
The Labyrinth
The Trojan Horse
Marathon
Beowulf - This could give a full wave. A Lego Grendel wouldn't be hard.
The Epic of Gilgamesh - Maybe, as I'm not as conversant with the material.
Journey to the West - I have little knowledge of Asian folklore, but material from this could be applicable, and has seen major media adaptations.
The Arthurian Saga - Obviously, but sanitized like everything else. The Welsh version is the way I'd go, so I can get a Taliesin minifig.
Robin Hood - Another obvious choice.
Vercingetorix - Gaul vs. Rome
Boudicca - Celts vs. Rome

This could be the overhaul that Lego historical fantasy needs. The varied subject matter would also give TLG the ability to avoid overlap with other themes.

Ambitious, yes, but if it starts with the Grecian fables first, this kind of theme could run two years without the need for a single new part. Most of what would be needed for subsequent waves would likely come out of the CMF series and the Marvel and DC properties.

Fables could also be a way to inject a bit of educational value into this part of Lego's brand, with the stories the sets depict printed alongside the building instructions (those booklets often have a great deal of wasted space).

Added to the listed ideas could be the later eras of the Renaissance/Age of Exploration and later tales of the Americas (Spanish colonial and westward expansion). Early industrial revolution tales and gothic literature could be included to cater to the Steampunk enthusiasts.

[x105Black]

11 hours ago, MAB said:

The problem I see with something like that is that it is not a theme. It is just a collection of random stuff and not that different to what they currently do if you just pick random sets from different themes (although the subjects will be different). This would make it hard to market it and encourage future sales from the "theme" on the back of previous sales. It would probably also cause buyer confusion - why is a pirate ship in the same collection as a dinosaur and spaceship?

I prefer to see a theme as a whole and decide whether or not to buy into it. For example, a Roman battle pack is nice, but not so useful if there are no enemies to fight against or no other city or population to defend. I'd want to know what else there is likely to be before investing in a large Roman army. Plus, marketing a theme is probably going to be more successful than an individual one-off set or collection of disparate sets. If a Roman theme will not be financially viable, why would a Roman battle pack sold in the same collection as a deep sea headquarters?

I agree that individual themes are superior to one-off sets in a theme.  It does seem sort of random.

10 hours ago, Lyichir said:

Well said. I considered making a comment to that effect earlier, but decided it was probably someone else's turn to be the wet blanket.

A "theme" like this would offer few of the advantages of a theme in general—not only would it not drive collectibility, but it would not necessarily be able to make the most out of new molds, recolors, and printed parts or figure parts, since the subject matter would differ so greatly across all the sets. I think there are ways in which that drawback could be lessened slightly—for instance, tying the various sets together with a unifying through-line like a "time travel" story, consistent main characters, and perhaps a specific set of "artifacts" for them (and buyers) to collect from each time period.

The thing about prints and parts here is true as well, and may lead to a higher price.  Since you can't reuse a lot of the prints, additional prints at additional costs becomes necessary.  This could be mitigated somewhat when you consider multiple waves, but I still think prices would be higher and the likelihood of seeing this would be lower.