kabel Posted November 19, 2017 15 hours ago, ElectroDiva said: How do you know Elves is doing well btw? Well, I guess it‘s more of a gutt feeling because of Elves getting so many waves. Personally I really liked where Kingdoms was going, with those civilian sets of which I bought mutiples then. Just consider how expensive the goat has become. And then it got cut short because of Lotr with a lot of potential left. So I don’t think Classic European middle ages castle is dead. Playmobil is still selling castles like crazy and my kids went there because Lego doesnt have good castles. The thing is just that castle deserves the attention other themes got! Castle 2013 failed because it was done in a rush, designed without any love for the topic. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ElectroDiva Posted November 19, 2017 1 hour ago, kabel said: Playmobil is still selling castles like crazy and my kids went there because Lego doesnt have good castles. The thing is just that castle deserves the attention other themes got! Castle 2013 failed because it was done in a rush, designed without any love for the topic. The Playmobil history series clearly shows that there is a market for well executed historic sets. I would *love* to have sets like these in Lego: http://www.playmobil.co.uk/onlineshop/products/history It amazes me that a brand which emphasises the "learning" aspect of toys hasn't picked up on the potential of a semi-realistic historic theme. If it can be made to work for Playmobil then why not TLG? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kabel Posted November 19, 2017 Yeah, that Romans vs. Egyptians line got my kids (8 and 11 year old boys) really crazy, the eventually spend their pocket money to get all of them since I don't buy them any Playmobil sets myself! And often enough it's Playmobil that borrows ideas from Lego. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gedren_y Posted November 19, 2017 Exactly why I think a theme that ranges throughout all the ancient world's myths and stories, or at least those that can be sanitized enough to meet Lego's standards, would be profitable and sustainable. I have two huge books sitting in front of me now that are filled with potential fodder. Add to that the potential educational value, which would appeal to discerning parents, and media possibilities, which could go in many directions. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dgherko Posted November 19, 2017 Maybe ancient wonders and ancient cultures mught a tie in. A small pyramid with eygptian life, a small hanging gardens, wall of china, tower of babylon, and the other ancient wonders with that cultures life done in minifigs. Wagons, farm huts, livestock, fishing boats, children it dones not just have to be military or army related, just a line of five or so iconic world landmarks in micro scale along with the life of those people in minifig scale. Show the world the cultures may be different but people are the same all over. That is very much a lego ideal. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MAB Posted November 19, 2017 On 18/11/2017 at 11:16 AM, ElectroDiva said: My nephews and niece are about the same age range (5-11) so probably not an age thing. A few of them have seen the NK cartoons and didn't like them (but love the Ninjago cartoons) As others have said, TLG seem to have hit a winning formula with Ninjago and for whatever reason NK doesnt seem to have clicked in the same way. I personally think if they had made NK a bit more traditional (less outlandish neon colours and sci-fi elements) it may have done better. Maybe better with fans of Ninjago (and afols), but that may have taken away sales from that theme. So I imagine they went slightly more whacky to appeal to others rather than appealing to the same group of fans. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KristinnK Posted January 6, 2018 Regarding the suggestion that TLG could or should release Creator Expert like Castle sets, their reaction to medieval Ideas sets suggests that their marketing team doesn't believe this to be viable. I would have loved sets like this one and this one, but TLG keeps rejecting them. Still, Lego Ideas is an avenue for us as consumers to communicate our desire to TLG, and I will keep supporting AFOL oriented medieval Ideas. Right now I have hopes that this, this and this set will reach 10,000 supporters, showing TLG that the consumer interest continues to be there, even if they probably will reject all of them. Even if it just makes them release something of their own like Mill Village Raid or Medieval Market Village. Just remember not to make unrealistic estimates of the cost of the sets in Ideas. If TLG sees potential costumers expecting this kind of size and detail under 100 USD they will not see a way to make a profit on them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aanchir Posted January 6, 2018 8 minutes ago, KristinnK said: Regarding the suggestion that TLG could or should release Creator Expert like Castle sets, their reaction to medieval Ideas sets suggests that their marketing team doesn't believe this to be viable. I would have loved sets like this one and this one, but TLG keeps rejecting them. Still, Lego Ideas is an avenue for us as consumers to communicate our desire to TLG, and I will keep supporting AFOL oriented medieval Ideas. Right now I have hopes that this, this and this set will reach 10,000 supporters, showing TLG that the consumer interest continues to be there, even if they probably will reject all of them. Even if it just makes them release something of their own like Mill Village Raid or Medieval Market Village. Just remember not to make unrealistic estimates of the cost of the sets in Ideas. If TLG sees potential costumers expecting this kind of size and detail under 100 USD they will not see a way to make a profit on them. I wouldn't say that those LEGO Ideas rejections indicate LEGO doesn't believe in the viability of medieval projects in general. Much of what gets selected (or doesn't get selected) on LEGO Ideas boils down to the pros and cons of the individual projects. For instance, a project that gets to 10,000 supporters in a matter of weeks might be more enticing than one that takes a year and a half, a project that uses legal building techniques might have an advantage over one that's especially fiddly, etc. Goodness knows plenty of projects based on modern-day subject matter have been rejected, even though the City, Friends, and Creator Expert themes show LEGO has no doubts in the viability of sets based on the modern day. I definitely think that people should keep submitting medieval-based projects. That said, I also think that the projects being medieval-based shouldn't be their only hook. Could the project have an uplifting or educational message for young people the way so many of the various STEM-based projects do? Could the project depict some type of medieval subject matter that LEGO fans have never seen in sets before? Could the project try and work in popular, exciting stuff like dragons, monsters, or extraordinary heroics, rather than trying to be an average snapshot of medieval life? Things like that can elevate a project above "cool looking MOC" and into something that even people who aren't super into medieval building can become passionate about. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mattybrick Posted January 9, 2018 (edited) Hi everyone! First post yay! Classic Castle from the 90's was my first exposure to Legos and my first set was a castle set which I still have. As an adult now, I keep wishing that they will bring back some sort of Castle theme.. that isn't NK.. but Medieval. I got to thinking that if playmobile is able to have such a large selection of Castle and fantasy themes, there must some sort of appeal to kids out there as you guys have mentioned. I have seen the history themes and I think they are amazing! If only Lego took more notice. I think there are a couple of ways for Lego to release a medieval line. One is they have started to release old sets again.. the Taj mahal set is back again.. this makes me think that they could re-release the Medieval market again to see if there is a fan base. Also what I think is needed to help sell castle sets maybe in the the form of monsters and mythical creatures. The Elves line has different dragons, and now other types of creatures in the newest wave. I could see them incorporate creatures from all over.. Dragons ( European, Asian) Sphinx, Minotaurs, Unicorns, Pegasus, Trolls, Giants, Loch Ness monster type creatures.. I could see all these appealing to all age groups. Perhaps the new HP sets will have a castle style to them this year at the very least. Oh and Disney is set to be making a movie around the younger years of Merlin... I hope Lego is paying attention that Knights, Princesses, Monsters, Castles, and Wizards seem to be popular elsewhere so there is definitely a fan base out there from all ages. Who doesn't know a video playing kid out there that is a huge Zelda fan! If Lego needs/wants to incorporate another existing line with a Castle Theme.. why not create a Sub Theme that has Time Travellers that go back in time to retrieve valuable artifacts for a Museum. They could face Monsters, Gods, and Warriors from many places such as Europe, Egypt, Rome, and Atlantis. ( I miss the Atlantis theme to lol) Edited January 9, 2018 by Mattybrick adding on thought Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Oederland Posted January 14, 2018 (edited) It's important to be aware that Playmobil has a different strategy. Their sets are available in the shops for a much longer time than TLC sets, e.g. the two castles 6000 and 6001 were introduced in September 2014 and are still in the shelves. They also release a lot more smaller sets than TLC. Some details: The Playmobil Knights theme introduced in 2014 consists of eight sets within the range 8 - 25 € plus the two large castle sets (100 and 150 €). These sets were released at the same time, not split into different waves. In addition, there are usually several ways to get additional sets related to Knights, although not directly linked to the included fractions. E.g. in 2014, they also offered four sets with a mounted knight each, with a unique heraldy (10 €). Now and then they offer sets of two minifigs that help to expand the theme. They also have adopted TLC's CMF concept with their series of blind bags, most of the time with at least one minifig fitting into a Castle theme. Finally, there's a long tradition of so-called "special" or "specialPLUS" sets which cost about 3 - 4 €, usually providing a minifig and equipment (in the sense of TLC's polybags), in case of Castle / Knights usually with unique heraldy or otherwise "interesting" (e.g. a hunter). In the last few years those "special" sets haven't provided that many Castle minfigs though. The "Super 4" theme (it's accompanied by a TV series and basically mixes several themes = Castle, Pirates, Sci-Fi, Fairy Tale) introduced in September 2015 featured some more sets that fit into a medieval setting. Again, the emphasis was on small to intermediate sets, four sets between 4,30 - 11 €, one set with among others a king for 27 € and the largest set, a transportable caste, for 55 €. Thus, it's easier to become attached to the Castle theme in case of Playmobil, as it's easier / more likely to receive small presents, keeping the theme attractive. And the theme is available all the time (similar to TLC's City). Basically Playmobil Knights is like the old TLC Castle, which also offered a great variety of small sets. Personally, I also have to admit that the last few Castle themes turned out to be a bit boring. I have mentioned some clone brands before, as I think this is very useful to see what other companies offer. Why has TLC never ever released anything like e.g. a throne room like this set? Castle is much more than the usual "wall section / tower" and carriage sets with rather crappy design, the infantile catapults. It would be so easy to offer a great variety of sets, as LEGO is about BRICKS (in contrast to Playmobil). Then again, the main focus nowadays seems to be rather "special parts", not generic pieces. Edited January 14, 2018 by Oederland Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gedren_y Posted January 14, 2018 Playmobil also uses lower cost materials, which reduces production costs. Weaker materials don't require the higher quality molds, thus creating new shapes costs less. Playmobil's aesthetic loses its appeal above a certain age range, so recycling the same ideas with a different skin is less of an issue. There are also a host of business concerns that LEGO has to take into account that Playmobil doesn't. I could go on. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Oederland Posted January 14, 2018 (edited) Interesting to hear different opinions, but let me ask a few questions: How long do children play with TLC Castle sets or castle sets in general? I would guess that it becomes "uncool" at some point, just because that's how children often behave. In case they have played with something at the age of 6 they might no longer be interested e.g. at the age of 10 because they want to show that they have "grown up". Children get in touch with the concepts of "classic" knights, pirates, cowboys very early (at least in Germany, at least based on my own childhood and that of my friends), be it a book or as a fancy dress, and they will stop at some point - either by turning to conceptually related PC games, books, series, or continue with that type of toy, but "upgrade" to a (vaguely) related theme with "cool" features like Ninjago, Nexo Knights. With regard to recycling, I'm not sure whether there is any difference between the two brands. The "Fantasy era" was certainly different, but the last two Castle lines were pretty conventional overall (leaving aside any juniorization aspects). I'm not saying that there were no new play features, but there wasn't really anything new which made the series appear like an innovation. Playmobil in the meantime also had some conceptual repetitions, but they also had new ones (the 2014 one is certainly a "Fantasy" one, while the one before was a "classic" one). And TLC in general is really master of recycling, consider tons of helicopters, police sets, ATVs and so on ;) Anyway. It's not simply about when a new line is introduced and how close it is to the previous one. If there are no sets or toys of a certain type at all, then children will skip that theme completely or go with that brand which is available. At least I can't imagine a kid looking for classic castle stuff in 2015, failing to find any brick-built theme, to switch to Castle a few years later just because TLC has decided to reactivate the theme. With regard to quality and costs, I have no idea about Playmobil material. It might well be cheaper, but you also get "more material" with a Playmobil fig compared to a TLC minifig. But leaving this aside, and even if a small TLC set has to cost xyz % more than a Playmobil set, then TLC could still provide a greater variety of small sets. Not one ~ 10 € Castle set, but several ones at the same time. Leaving aside that I don't believe in Lego having to cost as much as it does. TLC has made lots of profit, which is perfectly fine for a company. But considering the bunch of clone brands, with some of them even having more complex printing by now (more colours, back-printing on the whole legs, detailed side printings, ...) and still being much cheaper, I conclude that Lego is overpriced. Yeah, there's copyright infringement with regard to the minifig, the clone brands might just copy excisting molds, but TLC has been using the minifig and various molds for decades by now, so you can't claim that they have to spend any more money on that. It's basically just copying their past ;) The last time I checked the "Bricks & Parts" section their brown horse (without saddle) was about 5 €. This is just ridiculous. You get about 8 clone brand horses together with saddles for the same price. And well, this could be a problem in case of any Castle theme. For a Castle theme, you want to have lots of knights and horses and stuff, but in case that's unavailable (or only indirectly through large and expensive sets) then your parents will buy different toys. Edited January 14, 2018 by Oederland Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RetroInferno Posted January 14, 2018 The Castle Line was the bread and butter sales wise of Lego in Europe, especially germany. It's an highly profitable theme with kids, but the 2013 Kingdoms was extremly lazy and over shadowed by themes such as the Lord of Rings sets and The Hobbit, that really didn't help. Lego currently considers Nexo Knight to be a Castle theme by all evidence; even though it's not technically the case; shoving distorted elements from the middles ages and putting them into a vehicle heavy sci-fi fantasy setting isn't Castle by a long stretch. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mattybrick Posted January 15, 2018 Times have changed since many of us were Lego Fans as kids. Video games have been on the rise and toys like Lego may be suffering in trying to compete in sales. I looked out of curiosity to see what the top 10 video games were of 2017. The Legend of Zelda, Breath of Life made that list. Some even putting it at #1. Zelda takes place in a medieval fantasy type world. That being so, I still have hope that a Castle Line could be successful again from Lego if "fantasy" themed games can have large fan bases and huge sales. Maybe Lego should make a Zelda line if they could get that license. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gedren_y Posted January 15, 2018 1 hour ago, Mattybrick said: Times have changed since many of us were Lego Fans as kids. Video games have been on the rise and toys like Lego may be suffering in trying to compete in sales. I looked out of curiosity to see what the top 10 video games were of 2017. The Legend of Zelda, Breath of Life made that list. Some even putting it at #1. Zelda takes place in a medieval fantasy type world. That being so, I still have hope that a Castle Line could be successful again from Lego if "fantasy" themed games can have large fan bases and huge sales. Maybe Lego should make a Zelda line if they could get that license. Such a pity that K'NEX has the Nintendo license. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thetang22 Posted January 15, 2018 Video games are a GREAT indicator that medieval settings are still relevant in 2017-2018. I've been playing video games since the mid-80's...and games in medieval settings have always been pretty popular. Sure, these days Call of Duty type games reign supreme, but that doesn't mean medieval/fantasy don't also find notable success. Heck - look at Skyrim. It is one of the best selling games of the past decade, and it is a fantasy setting. And it still sells respectably after 6-7 years. Medieval/Fantasy games have always had a healthy following in the video game market...and as such, should be reason enough to have confidence that the same genre should be viable with Lego. They simply need to put creative efforts into it that don't result in the staleness of Castle 2013, or the bizarre'ness of Nexo. There are countless ways to do something new and compelling within the classic castle genre. Lego just chooses not to, but rather goes with TOO different, or the same 'ole, same 'ole. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MAB Posted January 15, 2018 Is it the medieval setting or the medieval killing that makes Skyrim popular? Isn't that a 15/18 rated game? The android NK app has 10M-50M installs and 222,000 reviews, nearly all 5 star, so must be doing something right in targetting the 5-11 year old age range that LEGO sets are also aimed at. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kabel Posted January 15, 2018 Honestly, I've completely given up any hope that we'll see anything decent in the near future whatsoever. It doesn't bother me though, since I don't really buys sets for building anymore anyways. So mocing it is, all the way ... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rodiziorobs Posted January 15, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, thetang22 said: Video games are a GREAT indicator that medieval settings are still relevant in 2017-2018. I won't dispute that, but I don't think it universally applies to all demographics. Who is buying these video games? Parents for their 7-12 year old kids? Perhaps, but most of those purchases are by teenagers, college students, and adults trying to recapture the nostalgia of playing 8-bit Zelda. While medieval/fantasy settings may be relevant, they are less relevant to kids than to other ages. I think this is borne out across other media as well--Game of Thrones is decidedly adult, and probably wouldn't enjoy the same success if it were toned down to a PG or PG-13. There have been fantasy/historic cinematic examples that have shied away from explicit content and nearly all have landed with a thud at the box office. LOTR was an exception, and is now 15 years old--and many feel that the violence as the series wore on very nearly earned a stronger rating. Family-friendly How to Train Your Dragon as a franchise has had diminishing returns since its debut over a decade ago, and never had spectacular toy sales figures. As @MAB pointed out, the very games you mention are rated for more mature than even the high end of LEGO's target audience. The setting is popular nowadays, but success without mature content such as sex or violence is fleeting. There may be evidence that a medieval Lego theme would sell well, and I'm sure TLG is paying big bucks to find it. Wait a second, they already did; it seems that TLG has found a way to make a fantasy theme work. From all appearances, the Elves theme is doing well, as it continues growing into its 4th year. The theme has come to incorporate more direct conflict, darker themes and colors, and yet stay remarkably light on violence. Nexo Knights has more violence to be sure, but it is all comic-booky so parents' feathers aren't ruffled. It turns out the way to sell medieval fantasy toys to kids is to draw a line down the traditional girls/boys divide: give the girls majestic but adorable animals to defend and boys a video game with cool weapons and powers where they can just punch stuff really hard. Edited January 15, 2018 by rodiziorobs The simutaneously overreaching and non-acting autocorrect Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SirBlake Posted January 15, 2018 54 minutes ago, kabel said: Honestly, I've completely given up any hope that we'll see anything decent in the near future whatsoever. It doesn't bother me though, since I don't really buys sets for building anymore anyways. So mocing it is, all the way ... Same, except having new product available is vital to my interest level. My hobby has completely stalled and I'm dangerously close to a new dark age. It didn't have to be this way, TLG. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gedren_y Posted January 15, 2018 Until Elves sunsets we likely won't see a minifig high fantasy version of Castle. If Nexo Knights finishes this year, a more traditional Castle can be launched next year. I live in hope that Lego will go the more educational route, and try something like my Fables idea (several pages back). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BrickJagger Posted January 15, 2018 1 hour ago, kabel said: Honestly, I've completely given up any hope that we'll see anything decent in the near future whatsoever. It doesn't bother me though, since I don't really buys sets for building anymore anyways. So mocing it is, all the way ... 23 minutes ago, SirBlake said: Same, except having new product available is vital to my interest level. My hobby has completely stalled and I'm dangerously close to a new dark age. It didn't have to be this way, TLG. I wouldn't lose hope yet. While Space and Pirates have had multiple extended periods without new sets, Castle has had something pretty much every year. I know you both disagree, but Lego sees NK as a Castle theme, which is actually a good sign. In their eyes, the only years in which there were no Castle sets at all were 2001, 2003 and 2015. Castle has always had a strong and loyal fanbase, and it seems to sell better than Space or Pirates based on how frequently Lego makes sets for the theme. Honestly, if I had to guess, we'll get a new Castle theme as early as next summer, and no later than 2020. They would't leave us hanging that long at all. Spoiler Again, this is if you regard NK as a Castle theme, which they do. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shroffy123 Posted January 16, 2018 9 hours ago, BrickJagger said: I wouldn't lose hope yet. While Space and Pirates have had multiple extended periods without new sets, Castle has had something pretty much every year. I know you both disagree, but Lego sees NK as a Castle theme, which is actually a good sign. In their eyes, the only years in which there were no Castle sets at all were 2001, 2003 and 2015. Castle has always had a strong and loyal fanbase, and it seems to sell better than Space or Pirates based on how frequently Lego makes sets for the theme. Honestly, if I had to guess, we'll get a new Castle theme as early as next summer, and no later than 2020. They would't leave us hanging that long at all. Reveal hidden contents Again, this is if you regard NK as a Castle theme, which they do. I truly hope we get new castle wave soon. My kids will soon grow out of duplo and I am hoping there will be a brand new castle wave for them to get into. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
x105Black Posted January 16, 2018 15 hours ago, rodiziorobs said: teenagers, college students, and adults There's nothing wrong with targeting this audience, and LEGO does this all the time. There are many great sets in the Creator Expert range, and even Ninjago and Nexo Knights target a higher age range than Castle traditionally targets. While they will never go fully mature, they can issue sets that will appeal to that demographic. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SirBlake Posted January 16, 2018 On 1/15/2018 at 1:51 PM, BrickJagger said: I wouldn't lose hope yet. While Space and Pirates have had multiple extended periods without new sets, Castle has had something pretty much every year. I know you both disagree, but Lego sees NK as a Castle theme, which is actually a good sign. In their eyes, the only years in which there were no Castle sets at all were 2001, 2003 and 2015. Castle has always had a strong and loyal fanbase, and it seems to sell better than Space or Pirates based on how frequently Lego makes sets for the theme. Honestly, if I had to guess, we'll get a new Castle theme as early as next summer, and no later than 2020. They would't leave us hanging that long at all. Reveal hidden contents Again, this is if you regard NK as a Castle theme, which they do. It's the hope that eats at me. Better to abandon hope and be pleasantly surprised later than to be disappointed for years on end. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
