"Castle lines never die" or "what made me change my mind and believe in new exciting castle lines".

[Digger of Bricks]

18 hours ago, danth said:

I honestly think themed Creator sets are a 100% slam dunk idea that would give so many fans exactly what they want.

AFOLs remember from their childhood sets that:

1. Had alternate builds
2. Had classic themes
3. Were not licensed; we made up the stories and characters
4. Did not have stickers
5. Had the "Classic" smilies

Also AFOLs (being adults) generally like builds without large/specialized parts. And we're willing to spend a little more for deluxe sets since we have disposable income.

Creator sets hit EVERY one of these items! If they released one Space and one Castle (Expert?) Creator set a year in different subthemes I think they would fly off the shelves. Since Creator sets have versatile brick selections by design (wheels that double as thrusters, etc) obviously fans would by in multiples basically as parts packs to build MOCs. 

@Nabii, do you Lego would ever go for something like this?

Many castles have been made by Lego though the years with large premade parts for easy modular construction and low set cost, something Creator lacks, which is definitely a good thing. An Expert castle would be a most grebbled build filled with many advanced construction techniques, while normal sets could be small medieval village houses like the many Creator house sets introduced each year that are so popular.

16 hours ago, danth said:

I just realized next year is the 40th anniversary of the Space and Castle lines. Hopefully Lego does at least something like the above to celebrate!

I would be most surprised if they didn't, no special edition sets were done for 2008 for either space or castle since they already themes at the time (2007-2009 Castle and Mars Mission). Currently we don't have either.

11 hours ago, LegoMonorailFan said:

Things have changed for how kids play nowadays. But than again, why is city successful? And why should we assume that BBTs can survive without the TV shows and everything that goes with them? Would they seize to be big bang themes and simply be plain old "themes"? Then in turn, would kids (not relying on some TV show) be encouraged to create their own storylines, plots, characters, etc.? In short, would kids be encouraged to think for themselves? YES.

Well, City revolves around concepts and situations kids see and interact with on a daily basis, while many other fictionally based themes may need more storyline and character backup for kids nowadays, verses maybe back then. So much of popular media is composed of excess hyper stimulation that traditional storylines look dull and flat to many kids nowadays. But having said all that, City does remain pretty " boring".

8 hours ago, Murrig Icehammer said:

Some people previously mentioned Playmobil in contrast to Lego Castle, which is a perfect example to show what i miss since Lego doesn't have a castle theme anymore. Unlike Lego sets, Playmobil sets are charming and ageless. Also, they don't run a thousand licensed themes at once and still, they manage to create nice and affordable sets. I just wish Lego and Playmobil where compatible...

Playmobil may not be a construction toy, but as a play set model, yes, I do envy them for that. That's the thing about so many of these "big bang" themes, they fall victim to becoming relics of their era, instead of becoming potential classics based upon timeless material. 

But hey, who's to say that just because they aren't based on tried and true material that they have no potential to become classics for the generations that grew up with them? The kids that grew up with these themes may grow up to be legendary AFOLs.

Or not. 

[Oederland]

Just now, LegoMonorailFan said:

One must ask though, what is a big bang theme? As you see in the quote below I hypothesize what a BBT would be without everything that goes with it and what the result would be.

Well, I think for a "big bang theme" your product line must be omnipresent nowadays. A more traditional theme would be less omnipresent though, at least if you don't want it to be accompanied by a TV series, ... like stated, it would be interesting whether children rate traditional Castle sets as boring or as interesting but as less as interesting as e. g. Nexo Knights. Toy companies might not have thought of this as much in the past, they might just have gone with "some" castle. Nowadays, with lots of marketing research, lots of TV series, ... they might have realized that one can increase profit with certain types of toys. This obviously only works if they find customers. If no one were interested in Nexo Knights then the theme would have disappeared. But it has not. So there must be people who buy theses sets.

Personally, I'm not that happy when it comes to Nexo Knights (or Ninjago). Not due the theme being a mixture of sci-fi and castle and fantasy elements, not due to having no proper Castle sets - I don't like it since it is accompanied by TV series, comics, ... It does have an impact on children in case they are confronted with a certain story everywhere, they want to get this and that set or item. Then the TV series is replaced by another one and you have to buy some new toys, the old ones fall into oblivion as it's no longer in vogue. And maybe you also have to buy a new schoolbag and a new T-shirt as it's still Ninjago and not Nexo Knights. This was still much less of an issue in my childhood. There was City and Castle and Space and these themes were around all the time, some sets disappeared and were replaced by other sets, a new fraction would appear once in a while, but continuity was preserved. And while a certain fraction might have been the first one you played with, and new stuff often being attractive just due to being new, it was much less of an issue to being "in vogue".

[Trekkie99]

13 minutes ago, Oederland said:

Well, I think for a "big bang theme" your product line must be omnipresent nowadays. A more traditional theme would be less omnipresent though, at least if you don't want it to be accompanied by a TV series, ... like stated, it would be interesting whether children rate traditional Castle sets as boring or as interesting but as less as interesting as e. g. Nexo Knights. Toy companies might not have thought of this as much in the past, they might just have gone with "some" castle. Nowadays, with lots of marketing research, lots of TV series, ... they might have realized that one can increase profit with certain types of toys. This obviously only works if they find customers. If no one were interested in Nexo Knights then the theme would have disappeared. But it has not. So there must be people who buy theses sets.

Personally, I'm not that happy when it comes to Nexo Knights (or Ninjago). Not due the theme being a mixture of sci-fi and castle and fantasy elements, not due to having no proper Castle sets - I don't like it since it is accompanied by TV series, comics, ... It does have an impact on children in case they are confronted with a certain story everywhere, they want to get this and that set or item. Then the TV series is replaced by another one and you have to buy some new toys, the old ones fall into oblivion as it's no longer in vogue. And maybe you also have to buy a new schoolbag and a new T-shirt as it's still Ninjago and not Nexo Knights. This was still much less of an issue in my childhood. There was City and Castle and Space and these themes were around all the time, some sets disappeared and were replaced by other sets, a new fraction would appear once in a while, but continuity was preserved. And while a certain fraction might have been the first one you played with, and new stuff often being attractive just due to being new, it was much less of an issue to being "in vogue".

Agreed. All these games and TV shows are bad for kids IMO and for Lego to encourage it is unfortunate. Also, (as you have pointed out) there is the "gimmicky" aspect of products and merchandise that goes with the theme. Once the theme is discontinued and replaced the whole process starts over again.

It seems TLG is turning into one of those "American big Corps" as well as adopting their way of business.

  

Edited June 14, 2017 by LegoMonorailFan

[MAB]

17 hours ago, danth said:

I just realized next year is the 40th anniversary of the Space and Castle lines. Hopefully Lego does at least something like the above to celebrate!

Maybe they will celebrate both Space and Castle anniversaries at the same time - combine them together and make .... 

 

[Digger of Bricks]

8 minutes ago, MAB said:

Maybe they will celebrate both Space and Castle anniversaries at the same time - combine them together and make .... 

 

I see what you did there.  

[danth]

2 hours ago, MAB said:

Maybe they will celebrate both Space and Castle anniversaries at the same time - combine them together and make .... 

 

Something that appeals to neither Space nor Castle fans? :D

[Trekkie99]

3 hours ago, MAB said:

Maybe they will celebrate both Space and Castle anniversaries at the same time - combine them together and make .... 

 

 Noooooooooo!!! 

 

Edited June 14, 2017 by LegoMonorailFan

[x105Black]

8 hours ago, Oederland said:

Well, I think for a "big bang theme" your product line must be omnipresent nowadays. A more traditional theme would be less omnipresent though, at least if you don't want it to be accompanied by a TV series, ... like stated, it would be interesting whether children rate traditional Castle sets as boring or as interesting but as less as interesting as e. g. Nexo Knights. Toy companies might not have thought of this as much in the past, they might just have gone with "some" castle. Nowadays, with lots of marketing research, lots of TV series, ... they might have realized that one can increase profit with certain types of toys. This obviously only works if they find customers. If no one were interested in Nexo Knights then the theme would have disappeared. But it has not. So there must be people who buy theses sets.

Personally, I'm not that happy when it comes to Nexo Knights (or Ninjago). Not due the theme being a mixture of sci-fi and castle and fantasy elements, not due to having no proper Castle sets - I don't like it since it is accompanied by TV series, comics, ... It does have an impact on children in case they are confronted with a certain story everywhere, they want to get this and that set or item. Then the TV series is replaced by another one and you have to buy some new toys, the old ones fall into oblivion as it's no longer in vogue. And maybe you also have to buy a new schoolbag and a new T-shirt as it's still Ninjago and not Nexo Knights. This was still much less of an issue in my childhood. There was City and Castle and Space and these themes were around all the time, some sets disappeared and were replaced by other sets, a new fraction would appear once in a while, but continuity was preserved. And while a certain fraction might have been the first one you played with, and new stuff often being attractive just due to being new, it was much less of an issue to being "in vogue".

I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with the TV shows.  I was a huge fan of many cartoons growing up, and still am to this day, and I'm a functioning adult.  To me, it is the mixture of sci-fi and fantasy.  LEGO is not interested in Castle as a theme, as far as I can tell.  They are interested in how they can use that term to market to children and gain money.  Which is fair, they are a business after all.  I just hoped that LEGO would want to produce products for people who are in fact interested in Castle and all of the trappings of medieval and fantasy stories.

[thetang22]

I still don't understand why they don't just make something inspired by World of Warcraft, or Dungeons and Dragons.  (key words:  "inspired by")  Those sorts of brands still have pretty mass appeal and would fit within the Lego Castle genre.  There are many, many, MANY other successful examples of entertainment that follow in the same stylistic footsteps as these examples.  Castle, as a stylistic theme, is NOT irrelevant with the youth of today.  Anyone who tries to suggest otherwise is simply wrong.  There are way too many examples of entertainment out there that prove that idea wrong.  You can find countless examples in video games alone, which are more popular with kids than Lego is.  This isn't to say that kids don't also like other things too, or possibly even more, but that's why Lego would always have multiple themes going at the same time...to cater to the different interests of customers. 

[Murrig Icehammer]

1 hour ago, thetang22 said:

I still don't understand why they don't just make something inspired by World of Warcraft, or Dungeons and Dragons.  (key words:  "inspired by")  Those sorts of brands still have pretty mass appeal and would fit within the Lego Castle genre.  There are many, many, MANY other successful examples of entertainment that follow in the same stylistic footsteps as these examples.  Castle, as a stylistic theme, is NOT irrelevant with the youth of today.  Anyone who tries to suggest otherwise is simply wrong.  There are way too many examples of entertainment out there that prove that idea wrong.  You can find countless examples in video games alone, which are more popular with kids than Lego is.  This isn't to say that kids don't also like other things too, or possibly even more, but that's why Lego would always have multiple themes going at the same time...to cater to the different interests of customers. 

I think that classic castle themes (including fantasy) where not profitable, but something like Nexo Knights is probably just MORE profitable and/or less risky.

Edited June 14, 2017 by Murrig Icehammer

[thetang22]

1 hour ago, Murrig Icehammer said:

I think that classic castle themes (including fantasy) where not profitable, but something like Nexo Knights is probably just MORE profitable and/or less risky.

Marketing is a massive part of the success of any product (overall promotion: printed, commercials, internet, media tie-ins like games and tv shows, etc...).  When you give classic Castle a bare-bones approach to those things, it's going to struggle in today's environment.  And then when you give Nexo-Knights the full-on treatment of all those things, of course Nexo is going to do better.  I'd be willing to bet if you completely reversed the marketing approach of those 2 sub-themes, you'd likely see results indicative of that switch.  Give a new classic Castle theme the "Big Bang" approach:  give it some factions with a few named individuals within their ranks...give them a tv show, give them a video game, commercials, internet promotion, etc.....and you'd likely see sales result quite comparable to how Nexo did.  And if they released Nexo with the minimal marketing that classic Castle traditionally receives, the theme would likely do about as well as classic Castle did last go around.

[Murrig Icehammer]

41 minutes ago, thetang22 said:

Marketing is a massive part of the success of any product (overall promotion: printed, commercials, internet, media tie-ins like games and tv shows, etc...).  When you give classic Castle a bare-bones approach to those things, it's going to struggle in today's environment.  And then when you give Nexo-Knights the full-on treatment of all those things, of course Nexo is going to do better.  I'd be willing to bet if you completely reversed the marketing approach of those 2 sub-themes, you'd likely see results indicative of that switch.  Give a new classic Castle theme the "Big Bang" approach:  give it some factions with a few named individuals within their ranks...give them a tv show, give them a video game, commercials, internet promotion, etc.....and you'd likely see sales result quite comparable to how Nexo did.  And if they released Nexo with the minimal marketing that classic Castle traditionally receives, the theme would likely do about as well as classic Castle did last go around.

If fully agree with you. But i also think that with the success of things like the Lego Movie, they wanted to have something that would be just as over the top like it. Maybe they where afraid that kids would find a classic castle theme would be too underwhelming or even boring, who knows? Maybe it was easier to create a TV show from something like Nexo Knights than a more realisitc or better said "grounded" castle theme. Just look at Ninjago which also has some sci fi elements, which is very much appealing to kids. I would have preferred a theme with Samurai and Ninja in medieval Japan, even as a kid.

I don't have any numbers, but to me it seems like some executives just wanted to play safe. A hip mix of themes instead of a more conventional castle theme seems to be much more appealing to kids (at least to TLG). Maybe i'm wrong. I really don't know, but to me it is just that policy of maximizing profits (do anything to appeal to kids. Include anything that is hip or pop culture, blah blah blah) which i really dislike.

I would very much like to have them do the exact opposite. Just have a neat little castle line of four or more sets each year, disconnected from the other licensed stuff. Don't restart it every 3 years, instead keep that world growing and have one or two civilian sets each year. Maybe add a new (small) faction each year (which doesn't have to be another kingdom. Some bandits or mercenaries would be alright too), but keep expanding the main faction with new and original sets.

[BrickJagger]

2 hours ago, Murrig Icehammer said:

I think that classic castle themes (including fantasy) where not profitable, but something like Nexo Knights is probably just MORE profitable and/or less risky.

I disagree. Fantasy Era seems to have sold well, hence the three year run, and from what I can see it still seems to be quite popular even eight years after its discontinuation. Nexo looks like it is going to run for the same length.

Also, wasn't Fantasy Era supposed to go longer than three years? From what I've pieced together by reading through old rumor threads it looks like there was a large wave (possibly containing Elves) was planned for 2009, but it seems to have been cut short right as it was announced that a Hobbit film would be coming soon. Kingdoms acted as a filler line to create space between the very similar themes that were FE and LOTR/TH.

[SerenityInFire]

I personally like Nexo Knights, and I know a lot of other people on here like Nexo too.  As much as I like that theme and would like to see it continue, it just doesn't scratch that classic medieval castle theme itch.  I do think a medieval castle theme could survive in today's market.  Just look at the popularity of medieval themed video games like Elder Scrolls and the WarCraft series.  Not to mention that things like Magic: The Gathering and War Hammer are still quite popular, maybe more popular than ever.  There is a market for a medieval castle theme, and Lego just has to figure out the how best to capitalize on it.

BTW, with the 40th anniversary of classic castle and space coming up soon, maybe Lego could do a medieval knights vs space aliens theme?  Just an idea. :)

[VaderFan2187]

12 hours ago, MAB said:

Maybe they will celebrate both Space and Castle anniversaries at the same time - combine them together and make .... 

Don't you dare...

[Artanis I]

3 hours ago, BrickJagger said:

From what I've pieced together by reading through old rumor threads it looks like there was a large wave (possibly containing Elves) was planned for 2009, but it seems to have been cut short

Has since been debunked. No elves were ever in the frame, the map reference was completely fictional for fun (ie not pointing to anything planned or even considered)

[blackie]

17 hours ago, MAB said:

Maybe they will celebrate both Space and Castle anniversaries at the same time - combine them together and make .... 

 

That was the most evil post in this thread .. 

 

[x105Black]

6 hours ago, thetang22 said:

Marketing is a massive part of the success of any product (overall promotion: printed, commercials, internet, media tie-ins like games and tv shows, etc...).  When you give classic Castle a bare-bones approach to those things, it's going to struggle in today's environment.  And then when you give Nexo-Knights the full-on treatment of all those things, of course Nexo is going to do better.  I'd be willing to bet if you completely reversed the marketing approach of those 2 sub-themes, you'd likely see results indicative of that switch.  Give a new classic Castle theme the "Big Bang" approach:  give it some factions with a few named individuals within their ranks...give them a tv show, give them a video game, commercials, internet promotion, etc.....and you'd likely see sales result quite comparable to how Nexo did.  And if they released Nexo with the minimal marketing that classic Castle traditionally receives, the theme would likely do about as well as classic Castle did last go around.

I absolutely agree.  Given the same media treatment, a traditional Castle theme could be very successful.

And yes, there are indeed many medieval fantasy properties that are very popular right now.  In video games, there's the Witcher series.  In television, there's Game of Thrones.  That's just the first two that come to mind.  These types of properties are aided by the past approach of LEGO in regards to medieval fantasy.  As someone who grew up with Castle LEGO, I am more inclined to get into these things.  Without Castle LEGO, I feel that medieval fantasy would be less popular now than it currently is.

[MAB]

11 hours ago, x105Black said:

LEGO is not interested in Castle as a theme, as far as I can tell. 

 

I don't think that is true. I think it is that they are not currently interested in (Classic) Castle as a theme.

They have released Castle sets in the near past, and they are still producing Castle type figures in the CMF ranges. But they cannot do everything all the time. It makes no sense to have Castle and Nexo Knights available at the same time, as they would compete for sales. So traditional Castle gets put on hiatus for a while, while NK runs it course. That doesn't mean the traditional Castle theme is of no interest to LEGO.

I'd prefer that it remains on hiatus a bit longer and that they do other historical themes (which again would compete for sales) - Romans, Egyptians, Greeks, Vikings, Ancient Chinese, etc. Even there, just battle packs without regular sets would be great. If they stick four or five Roman soldiers in a battle pack, I'd pay £12 for it. I don't know how well they'd sell to the general population though.

 

[zoth33]

On ‎6‎/‎14‎/‎2017 at 0:31 AM, Murrig Icehammer said:

I can only speak for myself, but to me the problem with Nexo knights is HOW both elements are mixed. You can very well do a well rounded fantasy- scifi mix that doesn't come across like made by a hyperactive kid. (sorry for the lack of better words to describe it.)

Some people previously mentioned Playmobil in contrast to Lego Castle, which is a perfect example to show what i miss since Lego doesn't have a castle theme anymore. Unlike Lego sets, Playmobil sets are charming and ageless. Also, they don't run a thousand licensed themes at once and still, they manage to create nice and affordable sets. I just wish Lego and Playmobil where compatible...

My dark age ended in 2008 (i belive) just when Castle fantasy started. Back then there where still lots of Viking sets availlable which was a absolutley glorious time for me to start getting back to Lego! A few years later i had a mini dark age, but when i came back i was seriously shocked to learn that Lego skipped Lego Castle in favour of something like Nexo knights. Don't get me wrong, i don't hate Nexo Knights. I simply have no interest in it whatsoever.

To me it is just sad that there was no decent continuation of the castle line.

I understand people don't like the theme but all I am saying is give it some time and castle will return.  As for playmobil I'm not a fan.  Even though Castle/Fantasy is my all time favorite theme and have all my sets I started collecting in the 80's and 90's.  I even have a lot of the fantasy era sets, Vikings, etc and most of the hobbit and LOTR sets except for 2 of them.  But I always find something of value for my in new sets like Nexo Knights, Ninjago, Elves, Star Wars, or the Super Hero sets.  It could be a minifig or bricks.  The Ninjago Vermillion villains work very well in my lego fantasy world and the Nexo Knights have some nice helmets from the knights side and there villains are excellent.  There is always at least one or two cmf's that I can use.  I want a new castle theme too I just find new and useful parts in other sets to fill the void until castle returns because I love building new things and especially customizing new minifigs. 

[gedren_y]

Part of the problem is that despite the growing AFOL community, Lego is still considered a children's toy, not an art medium. As such there is an assumption that children will age out of their interest in Lego, and that the company needs to consistently attract the interest more young children to maintain their success.

Part of that is true, most of us have a 'dark age', but that could be somewhat mitigated if themes that are popular could grow with their fan base instead of trying to attract a new, younger fan base. This is what I believe has lead to the whacky themes that get the Big Bang treatment. Major media campaigns that reinforce the idea that Lego just is for children.

Lego likes to promote the idea of creative building play, but their major media money goes toward themes that use specific builds for their characters to use. When the set is built, that is what the character uses, and there is little to no showing the set being rebuilt as something else. That is why I keep pushing for the idea of alternate builds, because when you show children other possibilities that helps spark their own ideas, which in turn helps develop independent thinking skills.

Some of The Lego Movie sets were developed in this vein, but because the theme was attached to a movie it was inherently limited in its existence. Dimensions offers little builds that have alternate builds, but you have to actually play the game to get the instructions. This is largely aimed at older consumers who are interested in video game play, not constructive building. It misses the point.

All this proves that TLG as a company has little interest in the adult market's interests. People will point to Ideas, Expert, and Creator sets, but look at how little we really get from those things. The internal development seems quite low, especially when you consider that there is little to no new parts development attached to those themes. Ideas is actually outsourcing the initial creative design process. Yes, it allows us to have input, but it is also a way for the company to avoid some expenditure on market research. Also the amount of promotion is so low that many adults do not even know that they exist. We AFOLs like to think of ourselves as a large community, but think about how many people in our daily working lives who's only thought of Lego is as a children's toy. This attitude is changing, largely due to licensed themes, but the process is slow.

I hope TLG gets better at addressing the wants of its existing adult fan base, but understand that the company needs to be successful. Especially when you consider that they now have actual competitors in today's market, which didn't really exist to such an extent in the 80's and 90's.

[MAB]

11 minutes ago, gedren_y said:

Part of the problem is that despite the growing AFOL community, Lego is still considered a children's toy, not an art medium. As such there is an assumption that children will age out of their interest in Lego, and that the company needs to consistently attract the interest more young children to maintain their success.

Part of that is true, most of us have a 'dark age', but that could be somewhat mitigated if themes that are popular could grow with their fan base instead of trying to attract a new, younger fan base. This is what I believe has lead to the whacky themes that get the Big Bang treatment. Major media campaigns that reinforce the idea that Lego just is for children.

 

2

I guess the problem is that most kids do grow out of their interest in lego, and never come back. And they have to keep attracting the younger fan base anyway. If they didn't have new themes and new media to help promote it, then it wouldn't surprise me if families made more use of old lego. For example, if there were castle sets around now that were similar to those from 6-10 years ago, then why buy new when the old ones are essentially the same as current?

 

16 minutes ago, gedren_y said:

Lego likes to promote the idea of creative building play, but their major media money goes toward themes that use specific builds for their characters to use. When the set is built, that is what the character uses, and there is little to no showing the set being rebuilt as something else. That is why I keep pushing for the idea of alternate builds, because when you show children other possibilities that helps spark their own ideas, which in turn helps develop independent thinking skills.
 

1

I agree with you there, I don't think lego promotes creativity that much - most of the advertising is about specific sets that remain as built models, rather than addressing creativity. Very little is really about creativity. I wonder what the sales volumes are like for the classic sets (the random parts boxes).

 

19 minutes ago, gedren_y said:

Especially when you consider that they now have actual competitors in today's market, which didn't really exist to such an extent in the 80's and 90's.

 

I'm not so sure about that - I guess it depends on the type of competitor. In the 80s and 90s, there might not have been so many building brick company competitors, but there were certainly other competitors in the toys market.

 

[Trekkie99]

The encouragement from Lego to promote creativity to kids has seemed to dwindle lately.  Lego sets seem to becoming a simple toy that needs "much assembly required". 

[Niku]

This is not mine, but a simple fan rendition I saw, with the existing factions, could demonstrate the potential castle could have with kids with the proper marketing and also appeal to adults.

A larger image is available on my flikr...

The Lore:

Black Falcons: Lawful Neutral - Conservative mercenary kingdom, easily defended by mountain ranges and fortifications. Ruled by a citidel on the outcropping of land known as 'The Iron Fist'. Allows the free travel of merchants but unconcerned with the affairs of others unless there is a good profit involved.

Bull Knights: Chaotic Neutral - Barbarian men of the wild North East, loosely organised under a king. Enjoy a good raid, peace with them is fragile at best. Wild forests and mountains, rolling hills and a stoney coast line.

Crown Lands: Lawful Good - The largest Kingdom, I put the crownies in the centre (they represent the house of the King to me). The 3 Lion Knight factions have sworn fealty to them. There exists a certain degree of corruption within their political system and certain figures may not always have the peoples interests at heart... The kingdom boasts the most fertile lands in the realm and is a mixture of mountains, lakes, woods, pleasant countryside and riverlands.

Dragon Knights: Chaotic Good - Free folk that live in the cold north, excellent warriors but unable to compete with the political schemings of the Royal Kingdoms. Geography is a mixture of Mountains, pine forests, rivers and farmland to the south (Skyrim anyone?)

Dragon Masters: Neutral Lawful/Order - A sort of mercantile and arcane faction, I'm currently building a medieval MOC with an Eastern/exotic feel and they make great city guards with their elaborate helmets and mustaches aplenty. So they've been given a desert kingdom.

Dwarves: Neutral Good - The dwarven kingdom lies in a heart of a mountain range where they are able to explore underground without too much trouble from the surface world. Enjoy trade with most non-evil factions.

Elves: True Neutral - Occupy a large region of woodland inbetween the Lion and Dragon Knight kingdoms. Enjoy good relations with the Dragon Knights as they are viewed as less industrialised and closer to nature than the Crown Kingdoms.

Forestmen: Chaotic Good, made up of exiles and opponents of the Monarchy who fight injustice and corruption. Based in the Kings Woods to the west of the Capital.

Orcs: Chatic Evil, a loose confederation of tribes that occupte the Horde Lands to the North East.

Undead: Neutral Evil, A dead city on the edge of a great salt lake. Rulers tolerate a couple of slaver/piracy ports to the north in return for heavy tribute.

Vampire Bat faction: Lawful Evil : A land of mostly black volcanic desert and mountains, ruled from a Dark Citidel atop a solitary peak on the peninsular. Includes the Spider Jungle to the south and a mercantile port ruled by Dark Mages.

Vikings: Chaotic Neutral, launch raids over the entire west coast of the mainland from their ports on the Dagger Isles.

[SirBlake]

That's really fun, and close to how I think about things as far as factions go. 

I think TLG could consolidate Lions and Dragons under one respective piece of heraldry and pretty much just go with this and it would be magnificent.