"Castle lines never die" or "what made me change my mind and believe in new exciting castle lines".

[Grover]

I would agree that I'm glad that Nabii and SirBlake both posted.  I agree with SirBlake more than anything. and I, too, am disappointed along with x105Black, in that it seems that there's some disconnect between some of the audience and the designers.

That being said, I am unusual.  Growing up as a child (1980s), my favorite genre was the Castle line, followed by Town.  I had a couple of odd Pirate sets, but my interest was low, and actively disliked Space.  I never had any of the Fabuland stuff.  I did buy a lot of raw bricks (remember the 62 brick assortment pack?) and other accessories for MOCs.  Perhaps because of my aversion to Space (which I realize is unusual), I dislike Nexo Knights.  I realize that marketing shows that kids may like the Nexo Knights theme, and I am OK with it, as I am with the Elves and Friends themes (the latter of which I am not really fond of), as I realize that LEGO is out to make money.  My problem with Nexo is that although it's supposedly 'Castle' themed, I cannot use most of the parts.  Lots of trans orange, blue castle crenelations, weird space armor and other oddly colored pieces are not useful to me.  Sure, a few of the pieces are light bley, dark bley, silver, etc., but it does not justify the cost of buying a full set.  I have wound up buying Creator modulars (which are awesome) for parts, as they have better value for me.  The Elves line also has more useful pieces to me.

As I say, I am unusual because my preferences are not normal, and I am an adult now, not a kid.  However, I would argue that I disproportionately have consumer power now.  I have a real job and much more disposable income for Legos than I used to.  I have likely spent more in the last 5 years on Legos than I have in the previous 30 (and none of it on Nexo).  Thus, although I am only one person who gets one vote on a theme, I probably consume 5-10 times that amount of younger consumers.

I think that something LEGO should consider is the popularity of the Modular themes with AFOLs.  I think modular sets aimed at AFOLs in other classic themes would be wildly popular.  Imagine medieval modulars with marketplaces, stables, blacksmiths, etc.  Same with a modular pirate theme.  Modular Arabian themes.  Modular space themes (look at how popular the Saturn V is!).  If kids really want Nexo Knights and Ninjago, great.  I don't.  I have no interest in purchasing these sets and probably never will.  I look at all of them, realize the pieces aren't useful to me and pass.  If an awesome modular Castle line came out where each tower, wall section, or gatehouse was modular so you could construct your own castles, I would go broke buying those.

On the other hand, there is a part of me that's a little happy that there are no awesome Castle sets now, as it allows me to spend more money on old Castle sets and bulk pieces on Bricklink for my own MOCs (none of which helps the coffers of LEGO at all--something to note).  Silver linings and all that.

[MAB]

10 hours ago, LegoMonorailFan said:

With complete respect to @Nabii, I have to agree 100% with this post. Space does not belong in a castle theme and vice versa.

 

Why not? Kids like this mish-mash. At least, my kids do. And so do many of their friends.

 

5 hours ago, Grover said:

I think that something LEGO should consider is the popularity of the Modular themes with AFOLs.  I think modular sets aimed at AFOLs in other classic themes would be wildly popular.  Imagine medieval modulars with marketplaces, stables, blacksmiths, etc.  Same with a modular pirate theme.  Modular Arabian themes.  Modular space themes (look at how popular the Saturn V is!).  If kids really want Nexo Knights and Ninjago, great.  I don't.  I have no interest in purchasing these sets and probably never will.  I look at all of them, realize the pieces aren't useful to me and pass.  If an awesome modular Castle line came out where each tower, wall section, or gatehouse was modular so you could construct your own castles, I would go broke buying those.

 

1

There is a problem with that, in saturation. If they did Castle Modulars, and Pirate Modulars, and Arabian Modulars, and Space Modulars and the standard City / Creator Modulars, then that is a lot of competing product. Some people that used to be into the Modulars would no longer purchase the Creator sets, but instead go for history or space. Five times as many AFOL-aimed competing sets will not correspond to 5x sales. 

[Trekkie99]

7 minutes ago, MAB said:

Why not? Kids like this mish-mash. At least, my kids do. And so do many of their friends.

 

As a space fan I found some of the sets very cool myself. And, they definitely were useful for parts! But that's just it isn't? It wasn't a mish-mash as much as it was a space theme being called a castle theme. But do kids like it? Maybe. Do I want kids to like something more traditional? Yes. Do I think that Lego, being so popular nowadays, should encourage kids to buy, play with, and hopefully enjoy classic Lego themes vs Lego copying what's "trendy" from TV, pop culture, etc.? Absolutely! 100% yes! Will it be successful? IMO, yes.

[Trekkie99]

6 hours ago, Grover said:

I would agree that I'm glad that Nabii and SirBlake both posted.  I agree with SirBlake more than anything. and I, too, am disappointed along with x105Black, in that it seems that there's some disconnect between some of the audience and the designers.

That being said, I am unusual.  Growing up as a child (1980s), my favorite genre was the Castle line, followed by Town.  I had a couple of odd Pirate sets, but my interest was low, and actively disliked Space.  I never had any of the Fabuland stuff.  I did buy a lot of raw bricks (remember the 62 brick assortment pack?) and other accessories for MOCs.  Perhaps because of my aversion to Space (which I realize is unusual), I dislike Nexo Knights.  I realize that marketing shows that kids may like the Nexo Knights theme, and I am OK with it, as I am with the Elves and Friends themes (the latter of which I am not really fond of), as I realize that LEGO is out to make money.  My problem with Nexo is that although it's supposedly 'Castle' themed, I cannot use most of the parts.  Lots of trans orange, blue castle crenelations, weird space armor and other oddly colored pieces are not useful to me.  Sure, a few of the pieces are light bley, dark bley, silver, etc., but it does not justify the cost of buying a full set.  I have wound up buying Creator modulars (which are awesome) for parts, as they have better value for me.  The Elves line also has more useful pieces to me.

As I say, I am unusual because my preferences are not normal, and I am an adult now, not a kid.  However, I would argue that I disproportionately have consumer power now.  I have a real job and much more disposable income for Legos than I used to.  I have likely spent more in the last 5 years on Legos than I have in the previous 30 (and none of it on Nexo).  Thus, although I am only one person who gets one vote on a theme, I probably consume 5-10 times that amount of younger consumers.

I think that something LEGO should consider is the popularity of the Modular themes with AFOLs.  I think modular sets aimed at AFOLs in other classic themes would be wildly popular.  Imagine medieval modulars with marketplaces, stables, blacksmiths, etc.  Same with a modular pirate theme.  Modular Arabian themes.  Modular space themes (look at how popular the Saturn V is!).  If kids really want Nexo Knights and Ninjago, great.  I don't.  I have no interest in purchasing these sets and probably never will.  I look at all of them, realize the pieces aren't useful to me and pass.  If an awesome modular Castle line came out where each tower, wall section, or gatehouse was modular so you could construct your own castles, I would go broke buying those.

On the other hand, there is a part of me that's a little happy that there are no awesome Castle sets now, as it allows me to spend more money on old Castle sets and bulk pieces on Bricklink for my own MOCs (none of which helps the coffers of LEGO at all--something to note).  Silver linings and all that.

Thumbs up on modular, creator based classic Lego themes. Anyone else?

Also, does anyone else feel that the idea (that Lego can not survive without big bang themes and licensed themes) is constantly being waved in front of us the way a hypnotist waves his watch? 

Edited June 13, 2017 by LegoMonorailFan

[MAB]

1 hour ago, LegoMonorailFan said:

As a space fan I found some of the sets very cool myself. And, they definitely were useful for parts! But that's just it isn't? It wasn't a mish-mash as much as it was a space theme being called a castle theme. But do kids like it? Maybe. Do I want kids to like something more traditional? Yes. Do I think that Lego, being so popular nowadays, should encourage kids to buy, play with, and hopefully enjoy classic Lego themes vs Lego copying what's "trendy" from TV, pop culture, etc.? Absolutely! 100% yes! Will it be successful? IMO, yes.

 

So, in other words, LEGO shouldn't try anything new? That castle has to remain classic only, and they cannot do anything else in a similar style but more up to date?

I prefer them to try new ideas, then occasionally go back to the old classics, then try more new ideas, and so on. Just doing the same old stuff again and again is not so interesting for some.

[Grover]

2 hours ago, MAB said:

There is a problem with that, in saturation. If they did Castle Modulars, and Pirate Modulars, and Arabian Modulars, and Space Modulars and the standard City / Creator Modulars, then that is a lot of competing product. Some people that used to be into the Modulars would no longer purchase the Creator sets, but instead go for history or space. Five times as many AFOL-aimed competing sets will not correspond to 5x sales. 

Perhaps not, although I could imagine that they keep the City Modulars as an evergreen theme while they rotate the others.  I suggest that because, although 5x as many modulars won't correspond to 5x sales, it would for me, and thus, there may be others like me out there.  I think they have not saturated the Modulars line yet, and can rotate another theme in and out each year.

[gedren_y]

When I use the term modular referring to Castle, I mean mid-level sets that can be added together in various ways to create large castles. Towers, wall sections, gatehouses, and great hall. The wall sections could include barracks, stables, kitchen/smokehouse, blacksmith, and/or training area. Towers could have a treasury, jail cells, living quarters, wizard/astronomer's laboratory, and/or simply defensible watch positions. A gatehouses are simple enough, but can be done in a few different ways. A great hall as the big set, that opens up for a grand feasting hall, and upstairs living quarters, ladies' solar, library, and balcony.

Some sets could include siege weapons, but wouldn't always need them. Or the siege weapons could be stand alone sets. The various faction leaders should be lords, not just knights. The common soldiers could have livery bodywear over more generic armor, mail, or jerkin printing to denote faction.

There are also plenty of ways to make a more realistic Castle theme appealing. Internal kingdom drama, quests, creature hunts, mercantile competition, outlaws, and my major tournament idea from before. Supporting media would be advisable.

[SirBlake]

24 minutes ago, gedren_y said:

When I use the term modular referring to Castle, I mean mid-level sets that can be added together in various ways to create large castles. Towers, wall sections, gatehouses, and great hall. The wall sections could include barracks, stables, kitchen/smokehouse, blacksmith, and/or training area. Towers could have a treasury, jail cells, living quarters, wizard/astronomer's laboratory, and/or simply defensible watch positions. A gatehouses are simple enough, but can be done in a few different ways. A great hall as the big set, that opens up for a grand feasting hall, and upstairs living quarters, ladies' solar, library, and balcony.

Some sets could include siege weapons, but wouldn't always need them. Or the siege weapons could be stand alone sets. The various faction leaders should be lords, not just knights. The common soldiers could have livery bodywear over more generic armor, mail, or jerkin printing to denote faction.

There are also plenty of ways to make a more realistic Castle theme appealing. Internal kingdom drama, quests, creature hunts, mercantile competition, outlaws, and my major tournament idea from before. Supporting media would be advisable.

That's the dream right there, but I'm also open to the City style big modular builds. Just one of those every year or two would be appreciated. Much better than nothing, that's for sure.

[MAB]

20 minutes ago, gedren_y said:

When I use the term modular referring to Castle, I mean mid-level sets that can be added together in various ways to create large castles. Towers, wall sections, gatehouses, and great hall. The wall sections could include barracks, stables, kitchen/smokehouse, blacksmith, and/or training area.

 

A problem with that type of modular stuff is what happens when one of the sets proves to be much more popular than predicted. If LEGO produced such a series of modular sets, and AFOLs started buying up all the walls, for example, then it may harm the sales of the other sets if the walls are never in stock. Parents then complain that they bought their kid the centerpiece set, and now they cannot find the walls anywhere. Or maybe the great hall would sell out, and nobody would want the walls and towers without anything to put into it. LEGO would need to try to predict what was going to happen with sales and balance them very well if stores are not going to be left with loads of unsellable stock.

Another problem is that the sets individually might not be very interesting (the LOTR wall set - the Uruk-Hai army set - was critized quite a bit on release) and so not sell so well, especially if left over at the end. In the UK we were lucky as the Uruk-wall set sold so badly stores were selling them at about 40%RRP to get rid of them.

 

[SirBlake]

20 minutes ago, MAB said:

A problem with that type of modular stuff is what happens when one of the sets proves to be much more popular than predicted. If LEGO produced such a series of modular sets, and AFOLs started buying up all the walls, for example, then it may harm the sales of the other sets if the walls are never in stock. Parents then complain that they bought their kid the centerpiece set, and now they cannot find the walls anywhere. Or maybe the great hall would sell out, and nobody would want the walls and towers without anything to put into it. LEGO would need to try to predict what was going to happen with sales and balance them very well if stores are not going to be left with loads of unsellable stock.

Another problem is that the sets individually might not be very interesting (the LOTR wall set - the Uruk-Hai army set - was critized quite a bit on release) and so not sell so well, especially if left over at the end. In the UK we were lucky as the Uruk-wall set sold so badly stores were selling them at about 40%RRP to get rid of them.

 

Sounds like a good problem to have. 

That's the trouble with anecdotal local evidence. As I recall, the Uruk army set sold pretty well around here. I myself got 4 or 5 of them and two Helm's Deeps.

[danth]

15 hours ago, Digger of Bricks said:

Perhaps there is hope for these subthemes in the Creator theme, something both @danth and @LegoMonorailFan have proposed in topics recently, but Creator couldn't fulfill everything a theme would have to offer, such as new parts or heavy amounts of minifigures. But Creator may change along the line hopefully.

I honestly think themed Creator sets are a 100% slam dunk idea that would give so many fans exactly what they want.

AFOLs remember from their childhood sets that:

1. Had alternate builds
2. Had classic themes
3. Were not licensed; we made up the stories and characters
4. Did not have stickers
5. Had the "Classic" smilies

Also AFOLs (being adults) generally like builds without large/specialized parts. And we're willing to spend a little more for deluxe sets since we have disposable income.

Creator sets hit EVERY one of these items! If they released one Space and one Castle (Expert?) Creator set a year in different subthemes I think they would fly off the shelves. Since Creator sets have versatile brick selections by design (wheels that double as thrusters, etc) obviously fans would by in multiples basically as parts packs to build MOCs. 

@Nabii, do you Lego would ever go for something like this?

[danth]

I just realized next year is the 40th anniversary of the Space and Castle lines. Hopefully Lego does at least something like the above to celebrate!

[rodiziorobs]

While I love the idea of themed Creator sets, I realize that they are more like the sets your mom would buy for your kids, rather than your kids wanting for themselves. I mean, sure they would like it fine (any Lego is good Lego), but they would have wished for the sets with Jay and Kai or Clay and Aaron and character X from that new show they love. Creator sets may sell decently, but Big Bang themes with the apps and shows and characters engender brand loyalty, and living the brand.

When we AFOLs played with Lego as kids, we played Castle and Space and what-have-you. When we weren't playing with Lego (when our parents sent us outside) we were doing other things.

Kids now play Lego with Zane and Cole. When their parents send them outside they act out Zane and Cole defending their fort or attacking the bad guys. Then they come inside, watch Ninjago on TV and play it on their iPads. They wear Ninjago shirts, they write in Ninjago notebooks that they bring home from school in their Ninjago backpacks. They sleep in Ninjago sheets.

Even when they aren't playing with Lego, they are involved--even immersed--in the brand. That's why those Big Bangs--Ninjago, Nexo, Chima--are pushed so hard. The third party products aren't TLG's main gig, but they keep the actual toy and all that it stands for--fun and imagination--in the front of kids' and parents' minds around the clock, not just when their toys are out.

That kind of pervasive brand presence simply isn't possible with a themed generic set, and that's why they are not produced as much. It's not just about the building experience, but about the brand experience.

Imagine if Ninja Turtles (my childhood Big Bang) hadn't had cool characters like Raph and Leo, opting instead for generic mutant turtle heroes. It would never have survived. As far as branding? The wackier the better. The more distinct and unique, the better. Anyone can do generic castle factions battling it out, but Future Knights with downloadable powers? That's something you can trademark. AFOLs, meet the Big Bang themes; they are here to stay.

Edited June 13, 2017 by rodiziorobs
to add more stuff

[SirBlake]

1 hour ago, rodiziorobs said:

While I love the idea of themed Creator sets, I realize that they are more like the sets your mom would buy for your kids, rather than your kids wanting for themselves.

That's the whole point. If focus groups can't make a business case for a full theme, that's where creator modular type sets come in. They're really not aimed at kids. They're for AFOLs, so at least give us something. I think most of us don't care that themes that don't appeal to us are available, be they Ninjago or whatever. It's when their existence is at the expense of what we love that things get tense.

Put another way, something is better than nothing, so if an occasional low-volume/high price tag castle set is the best we can get, I think we'd all take that as opposed to nothing.

[x105Black]

10 hours ago, MAB said:

So, in other words, LEGO shouldn't try anything new? That castle has to remain classic only, and they cannot do anything else in a similar style but more up to date?

I prefer them to try new ideas, then occasionally go back to the old classics, then try more new ideas, and so on. Just doing the same old stuff again and again is not so interesting for some.

LEGO should certainly try new things.  They should try them in tandem with the traditional, classic things.

10 hours ago, Grover said:

Perhaps not, although I could imagine that they keep the City Modulars as an evergreen theme while they rotate the others.  I suggest that because, although 5x as many modulars won't correspond to 5x sales, it would for me, and thus, there may be others like me out there.  I think they have not saturated the Modulars line yet, and can rotate another theme in and out each year.

1 or 2 Modulars every year, in addition to the City Modulars, shouldn't saturate the market by a noticeable amount.  I think the offset would be more than made up for in the sales of these other themes.

9 hours ago, gedren_y said:

When I use the term modular referring to Castle, I mean mid-level sets that can be added together in various ways to create large castles. Towers, wall sections, gatehouses, and great hall. The wall sections could include barracks, stables, kitchen/smokehouse, blacksmith, and/or training area. Towers could have a treasury, jail cells, living quarters, wizard/astronomer's laboratory, and/or simply defensible watch positions. A gatehouses are simple enough, but can be done in a few different ways. A great hall as the big set, that opens up for a grand feasting hall, and upstairs living quarters, ladies' solar, library, and balcony.

Some sets could include siege weapons, but wouldn't always need them. Or the siege weapons could be stand alone sets. The various faction leaders should be lords, not just knights. The common soldiers could have livery bodywear over more generic armor, mail, or jerkin printing to denote faction.

There are also plenty of ways to make a more realistic Castle theme appealing. Internal kingdom drama, quests, creature hunts, mercantile competition, outlaws, and my major tournament idea from before. Supporting media would be advisable.

This is a good idea, but I don't think the sets should be quite so specialized.  Rather than each being part of a castle, they could be independent sets that can combine to build a castle if you buy them all.  This way you don't have wall sections, you have a stable or a barracks that have a wall attached.  And yes, siege weapons should always be stand alone sets.  They effectively reduce the piece count of the set that they appear in when they are packaged with something else, rendering that other build less impressive than it could have been at that price point.

8 hours ago, MAB said:

A problem with that type of modular stuff is what happens when one of the sets proves to be much more popular than predicted. If LEGO produced such a series of modular sets, and AFOLs started buying up all the walls, for example, then it may harm the sales of the other sets if the walls are never in stock. Parents then complain that they bought their kid the centerpiece set, and now they cannot find the walls anywhere. Or maybe the great hall would sell out, and nobody would want the walls and towers without anything to put into it. LEGO would need to try to predict what was going to happen with sales and balance them very well if stores are not going to be left with loads of unsellable stock.

Another problem is that the sets individually might not be very interesting (the LOTR wall set - the Uruk-Hai army set - was critized quite a bit on release) and so not sell so well, especially if left over at the end. In the UK we were lucky as the Uruk-wall set sold so badly stores were selling them at about 40%RRP to get rid of them.

I really wish Uruk-Hai had sold that poorly in my area.  A 40% discount would have been fantastic.  As it was, I had trouble finding that set and ended up buying a lot of the minifigures via BrickLink.  The set I didn't really like was Dol Guldur Ambush.

8 hours ago, SirBlake said:

Sounds like a good problem to have. 

That's the trouble with anecdotal local evidence. As I recall, the Uruk army set sold pretty well around here. I myself got 4 or 5 of them and two Helm's Deeps.

Agreed.

I really wish I could have gotten 2 Helm's Deeps as well.

1 hour ago, SirBlake said:

That's the whole point. If focus groups can't make a business case for a full theme, that's where creator modular type sets come in. They're really not aimed at kids. They're for AFOLs, so at least give us something. I think most of us don't care that themes that don't appeal to us are available, be they Ninjago or whatever. It's when their existence is at the expense of what we love that things get tense.

Put another way, something is better than nothing, so if an occasional low-volume/high price tag castle set is the best we can get, I think we'd all take that as opposed to nothing.

Absolutely.  Anything would be better than nothing.  And right now, there is basically nothing.  Nexo Knights, while the designers like to call it Castle, just isn't Castle.

[Trekkie99]

10 hours ago, gedren_y said:

When I use the term modular referring to Castle, I mean mid-level sets that can be added together in various ways to create large castles. Towers, wall sections, gatehouses, and great hall. The wall sections could include barracks, stables, kitchen/smokehouse, blacksmith, and/or training area. Towers could have a treasury, jail cells, living quarters, wizard/astronomer's laboratory, and/or simply defensible watch positions. A gatehouses are simple enough, but can be done in a few different ways. A great hall as the big set, that opens up for a grand feasting hall, and upstairs living quarters, ladies' solar, library, and balcony.

Some sets could include siege weapons, but wouldn't always need them. Or the siege weapons could be stand alone sets. The various faction leaders should be lords, not just knights. The common soldiers could have livery bodywear over more generic armor, mail, or jerkin printing to denote faction.

There are also plenty of ways to make a more realistic Castle theme appealing. Internal kingdom drama, quests, creature hunts, mercantile competition, outlaws, and my major tournament idea from before. Supporting media would be advisable.

Yes, this concept needs to be applied to trains as well. Individual trains, cargo cars, hopper cars, etc.

6 hours ago, danth said:

I honestly think themed Creator sets are a 100% slam dunk idea that would give so many fans exactly what they want.

AFOLs remember from their childhood sets that:

1. Had alternate builds
2. Had classic themes
3. Were not licensed; we made up the stories and characters
4. Did not have stickers
5. Had the "Classic" smilies

Also AFOLs (being adults) generally like builds without large/specialized parts. And we're willing to spend a little more for deluxe sets since we have disposable income.

Creator sets hit EVERY one of these items! If they released one Space and one Castle (Expert?) Creator set a year in different subthemes I think they would fly off the shelves. Since Creator sets have versatile brick selections by design (wheels that double as thrusters, etc) obviously fans would by in multiples basically as parts packs to build MOCs. 

@Nabii, do you think Lego would ever go for something like this?

Agreed! I think this option has so much capability and that it's can be the answer to every thing we want.

4 hours ago, danth said:

I just realized next year is the 40th anniversary of the Space and Castle lines. Hopefully Lego does at least something like the above to celebrate!

Fingers crossed!

4 hours ago, rodiziorobs said:

While I love the idea of themed Creator sets, I realize that they are more like the sets your mom would buy for your kids, rather than your kids wanting for themselves. I mean, sure they would like it fine (any Lego is good Lego), but they would have wished for the sets with Jay and Kai or Clay and Aaron and character X from that new show they love. Creator sets may sell decently, but Big Bang themes with the apps and shows and characters engender brand loyalty, and living the brand.

When we AFOLs played with Lego as kids, we played Castle and Space and what-have-you. When we weren't playing with Lego (when our parents sent us outside) we were doing other things.

Kids now play Lego with Zane and Cole. When their parents send them outside they act out Zane and Cole defending their fort or attacking the bad guys. Then they come inside, watch Ninjago on TV and play it on their iPads. They wear Ninjago shirts, they write in Ninjago notebooks that they bring home from school in their Ninjago backpacks. They sleep in Ninjago sheets.

Even when they aren't playing with Lego, they are involved--even immersed--in the brand. That's why those Big Bangs--Ninjago, Nexo, Chima--are pushed so hard. The third party products aren't TLG's main gig, but they keep the actual toy and all that it stands for--fun and imagination--in the front of kids' and parents' minds around the clock, not just when their toys are out.

That kind of pervasive brand presence simply isn't possible with a themed generic set, and that's why they are not produced as much. It's not just about the building experience, but about the brand experience.

Imagine if Ninja Turtles (my childhood Big Bang) hadn't had cool characters like Raph and Leo, opting instead for generic mutant turtle heroes. It would never have survived. As far as branding? The wackier the better. The more distinct and unique, the better. Anyone can do generic castle factions battling it out, but Future Knights with downloadable powers? That's something you can trademark. AFOLs, meet the Big Bang themes; they are here to stay.

Things have changed for how kids play nowadays. But than again, why is city successful? And why should we assume that BBTs can survive without the TV shows and everything that goes with them? Would they seize to be big bang themes and simply be plain old "themes"? Then in turn, would kids (not relying on some TV show) be encouraged to create their own storylines, plots, characters, etc.? In short, would kids be encouraged to think for themselves? YES.

 

 

[BrickJagger]

If Creator is the only way we can continue to get Castle sets, so be it, as long as there are new factions introduced. I'm worried that Lego won't ever go back to Castle after NK, and if that happened I would stop buying their products in any form.

[thetang22]

12 hours ago, MAB said:

So, in other words, LEGO shouldn't try anything new? That castle has to remain classic only, and they cannot do anything else in a similar style but more up to date?

 

2 hours ago, x105Black said:

LEGO should certainly try new things.  They should try them in tandem with the traditional, classic things.e, just isn't Castle.

That's how I feel about it.  Lego could have gone hundreds (thousands?) of different directions with classic Castle.  Heck, we've been offering suggestions like crazy over the past few years about all the different ways classic Castle can be done different than it has over the decades.  But it seems Lego understands 2 basic directions for Castle these days:

1) uninspired repetition of the same types of sets, or...

2) make Castle so drastically different that it's hard to even look at it and think it is Castle.

There is SOOOOOOO much untapped ground between those 2 styles that would be creative and still look/feel like classic Castle, but Lego seems uninterested in it.

[Trekkie99]

20 minutes ago, BrickJagger said:

If Creator is the only way we can continue to get Castle sets, so be it, as long as there are new factions introduced. I'm worried that Lego won't ever go back to Castle after NK, and if that happened I would stop buying their products in any form.

If Lego did stop production of castle themes it'd be a petty choice.  

Also, if you want to talk about giving up on something why does Lego continue making BBTs which will never (I think) top ninjago? All they do is take up time and money from TLG and attention from ninjago. Reminds me of the "no classic space because of Star Wars" discussion.

Edited June 14, 2017 by LegoMonorailFan

[zoth33]

I don't understand all this talk of castle and space don't mix.  Warhammer and Thor mix science fiction with castle like weapons and buildings.  There are many franchises that mix fantasy and scifi and there are many fans that love that kind of stuff.  Just because some people here don't like it doesn't mean it sucks.  Lego will surprise us with something new for castle soon that's my opinion.  I think we just need to be patient and let things pan out.  Also remember themes like Ninjago, Nexo Knights, Elves, etc, are aimed at kids not us.  Creator and The Modular builds are aimed at adults.  As far as no classic space with star wars we've had space themes run like galaxy squad,  space police, alien conquest, mars mission, and others.  Its only been since 2014 since weve had any regular castle so lets give it a little more time.  

[Murrig Icehammer]

1 hour ago, zoth33 said:

I don't understand all this talk of castle and space don't mix.  Warhammer and Thor mix science fiction with castle like weapons and buildings.  There are many franchises that mix fantasy and scifi and there are many fans that love that kind of stuff.  Just because some people here don't like it doesn't mean it sucks.  Lego will surprise us with something new for castle soon that's my opinion.  I think we just need to be patient and let things pan out.  Also remember themes like Ninjago, Nexo Knights, Elves, etc, are aimed at kids not us.  Creator and The Modular builds are aimed at adults.  As far as no classic space with star wars we've had space themes run like galaxy squad,  space police, alien conquest, mars mission, and others.  Its only been since 2014 since weve had any regular castle so lets give it a little more time.  

I can only speak for myself, but to me the problem with Nexo knights is HOW both elements are mixed. You can very well do a well rounded fantasy- scifi mix that doesn't come across like made by a hyperactive kid. (sorry for the lack of better words to describe it.)

Some people previously mentioned Playmobil in contrast to Lego Castle, which is a perfect example to show what i miss since Lego doesn't have a castle theme anymore. Unlike Lego sets, Playmobil sets are charming and ageless. Also, they don't run a thousand licensed themes at once and still, they manage to create nice and affordable sets. I just wish Lego and Playmobil where compatible...

My dark age ended in 2008 (i belive) just when Castle fantasy started. Back then there where still lots of Viking sets availlable which was a absolutley glorious time for me to start getting back to Lego! A few years later i had a mini dark age, but when i came back i was seriously shocked to learn that Lego skipped Lego Castle in favour of something like Nexo knights. Don't get me wrong, i don't hate Nexo Knights. I simply have no interest in it whatsoever.

To me it is just sad that there was no decent continuation of the castle line.

Edited June 14, 2017 by Murrig Icehammer

[MAB]

8 hours ago, x105Black said:

LEGO should certainly try new things.  They should try them in tandem with the traditional, classic things.

 

 

What do you mean by in tandem? Together with or alternately? As they are probably doing the latter, alternately trying something new (NK "space castle") after doing classic castle before and probably doing classic castle again in the future. If they did them together, then there would be conflict between two similar products on the shelves, space castle (backed by story and media) and classic castle. It wouldn't surprise me if NK sold better than classic castle to the general population, given the push it would get through the associated media (and as noted above, all the ancillary products). What should LEGO think then? We've tried both and classic castle doesn't hold up any more to our own in-house pseudo-licensed theme, so it is time for it to go completely.

 

8 hours ago, x105Black said:

I really wish Uruk-Hai had sold that poorly in my area.  A 40% discount would have been fantastic.  As it was, I had trouble finding that set and ended up buying a lot of the minifigures via BrickLink.  The set I didn't really like was Dol Guldur Ambush.

 

1

It wasn't 40% discount, it was about 40% RRP (so 60% discount). :-)

Dol Guldur Ambush (and in fact all of the Hobbit wave 2 and 3 sets) could be had at with least 50% off RRP here. DGA was 60% off (£8 from £20) and Mirkwood Elf Army was the same 60% off (£12 from £30). The best discount for me was Dol Guldur Battle though, I paid £25 each (from £70) and that was about two weeks after release. That was a very expensive day, and took up a lot of space. :-)

 

 

3 hours ago, Murrig Icehammer said:

Some people previously mentioned Playmobil in contrast to Lego Castle, which is a perfect example to show what i miss since Lego doesn't have a castle theme anymore. Unlike Lego sets, Playmobil sets are charming and ageless. Also, they don't run a thousand licensed themes at once and still, they manage to create nice and affordable sets. I just wish Lego and Playmobil where compatible...

1

LEGO and Playmobil can be compatible if you build to the scale of the figures. I used to do that back in the 1970s. I also used to use Kenner Star Wars figures with LEGO, long before LEGO SW came along. Sometimes they even joined in with Mattel's Battlestar Galactica ships too.

[Oederland]

On 6/12/2017 at 5:21 PM, Nabii said:

So many people in this thread still saying Nexo-Knights is not Caslte. Fine, you can believe that if you like. But it was developed as Castle, it was tested alongside and against much more traditional Castle sets and it was the one that kids around the world helped shape and chose as their favourite direction for a castle theme.

 

If, despite these very strong test scores, Nexo Knight does not perform well in the market place then how likely do you think it is LEGO will take a bet on one of the themes that tested worse? Like the old Classic style castles?

Thanks for providing these information! Now obviously, it would be good to know how the more traditional Castle sets that children could choose from looked like. If they were designed poorly, anything would have scored better. ;) And I think there have been poor designs when it comes to Castle - I gave some examples before like the structure in 70403, but I also can't share the enthusiasm of some on 10223, for me it's a superlarge gatehouse without gate, making the structure pointless - what would you want to defend if one were to use that gate? IMO this set was clearly aiming at AFOLs and not at children, there's the "combine 2 into 1" aspect, which probably has hardly any relevance for children (at least in my childhood my parents or those of friends wouldn't have bought an identical expensive set twice), there's the reference to classic era with the black falcon.

However, as stated myself somewhere before, I could well imagine that children have different preferences nowadays, which is why I mentioned products of other toy brands/companies. In this regard it would have been interesting whether the more traditional Castle sets scored badly or whether they scored well overall, maybe as well as in the past, but less well than Nexo Knights. In the latter, for TLC it would be absolutely reasonable to go with Nexo Knights then due to having to have a limited number of active themes, but it wouldn't mean children have no more interest in traditional Castle. Now considering the last few years I have the impression that fantasy has become an elemental part of entertainment industry, consider Harry Potter, consider LotR / The Hobbit, consider various fantasy role-playing games. When looking at other toys I have the impression that traditional castle toys are retracting, possibly only interesting for young children. Which would maybe explain the "juniorification" with bright colours, simpler models and such. But in any case, if it were just TLC preferring other themes to maximize profit then other companies could enter the market, but as pointed out (and ignoring the clone sets), I don't really see any brand that came up with a "traditional castle" theme recently except for Sluban, in which the more traditional buildings are mixed with "fantasy/hero"  elements though when it comes to the figures, thus maybe their theme is more like fantasy role-playing games (they have ninjas, they have mechs).

You're hoping something you claim to be fans of goes wrong? It's crazy, and as fans of 'castle' it is self defeating. You should want it to shine, so that when it comes to a glorious ending LEGO turn around and say: "Yep, that was good, let's get back to traditional castle stuff." and not: "Kids don't seem to like castle anymore no matter how we dress it up, let's get another movie license."

Well, at least some of us tried to provide examples of things that might work well, strategies how to make a traditional Castle theme more appealing to kids, so this statement is a little rude in this generalised form. Some might obviously focus more on their own passion ("what do I like" instead of "what do kids like"), but this is justified as long as they spend their money on TLC products (and I do think that AFOLs are a relevant client base for TLC when it comes to some sets at least). And of course we can suggest things only, we can't really test this (except on our own children in case we have some).

7 hours ago, Murrig Icehammer said:

Unlike Lego sets, Playmobil sets are charming and ageless. Also, they don't run a thousand licensed themes at once and still, they manage to create nice and affordable sets. I just wish Lego and Playmobil where compatible...

Playmobil has changed its politics as well though. They have Porsche sets nowadays, they just introduced a whole Ghostbusters theme, they have a Dragons theme, they invented a TV series called Super 4. With regard to their Castle theme, it is also no longer directly comparable to the Castle theme of the 90ies. The still-running theme includes dragons and dwarves and goblins (?), and they don't introduce as many different sets as often as they have done in the past. However, there is a larger "individualization" when it comes to equipment, printing and such, of which a future TLC Castle theme might benefit as well.

[Oederland]

On 6/13/2017 at 2:13 PM, LegoMonorailFan said:

Also, does anyone else feel that the idea (that Lego can not survive without big bang themes and licensed themes) is constantly being waved in front of us the way a hypnotist waves his watch? 

Well, maybe it is the case. You might well be able to maximize profit with big bang themes and licensed stuff. If TLC knew that they could gain more money with a traditional Castle theme they came up with such a theme. Not because they are emotionally attached to their clients and want their dreams to become true, but because they are a company and a company wants to earn money. Ideally, you have emotionally attached clients who buy a 200 € set to get a certain Star Wars spaceship with a never-ever-done-before minifig. A few years later you come up with a new interpretation of that spaceship and that minifig and so on and so forth.

[Trekkie99]

Just now, Oederland said:

Well, maybe it is the case. You might well be able to maximize profit with big bang themes and licensed stuff. If TLC knew that they could gain more money with a traditional Castle theme they came up with such a theme. Not because they are emotionally attached to their clients and want their dreams to become true, but because they are a company and a company wants to earn money. Ideally, you have emotionally attached clients who buy a 200 € set to get a certain Star Wars spaceship with a never-ever-done-before minifig. A few years later you come up with a new interpretation of that spaceship and that minifig and so on and so forth.

One must ask though, what is a big bang theme? As you see in the quote below I hypothesize what a BBT would be without everything that goes with it and what the result would be.

 

10 hours ago, LegoMonorailFan said:

Things have changed for how kids play nowadays. But than again, why is city successful? And why should we assume that BBTs can survive without the TV shows and everything that goes with them? Would they seize to be big bang themes and simply be plain old "themes"? Then in turn, would kids (not relying on some TV show) be encouraged to create their own storylines, plots, characters, etc.? In short, would kids be encouraged to think for themselves? YES.