LegoMonorailFan

The Future of Lego Space. (opinions, ideas, discussion)

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, TheNerdyOne_ said:

Ya I think my real, and really only, problem is that all of the sets and vehicles are designed to be character-specific as well.  Nexo Knights has a unified general color scheme, but especially in the later sets started adding more colors specific to every character.  In addition to just muddying the color scheme mand making the whole thing look much busier and generally ugly imo, but it also (at least for me) reduces the appeal of each set, as they no longer really mesh together well.

Thanks for summarizing something I tried to get across in my longer post some page back.

Year 2, knight vehicles got brighter colors, it became more Power-Ranger feel without the proper Megazord/Voltron combination 

Nexo Combination vehicle does actually happen in the comic during a simulation training, and it actually fell apart real fast, so I think it was meant as a joke.

 

I loved the Stone Monsters, and Knighton Castle sets no doubt, but some of the knight sets were pretty weak, like Axl's Rumble Maker.

 

I have no problems with named characters or recurring ones, it's the sets around them, solely focused on the knight's color felt forced, and repeated.

Each knight set

2016 : main vehicle, hover horses, ultimate sets, knight colors mostly as accents. 1 extra small vehicle for Aaron/Clay (Fortrex) & Macy (Lava Lair).

2017: main vehicle, battle suits , colors got brighter and more knight-specific. ( 2 more exclusive sets also existed for Lance/Aaron, and a Battlesuit Robin via a Book)

2018: main vehicle for most knights, except a Jetpack for Macy. Colors still bright and added gold. Merlok powers mostly only explained in the Magazine comic, and used as a monster "weakness" in the game.

 

Macy only ever got small vehicle sets... so much for being princess and the heir to the throne.:shrug_oh_well:

 

Edited by TeriXeri

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On 1/6/2019 at 11:36 AM, Renny The Spaceman said:

Benny's just a gateway Spaceman. 

I love that idea, Renny, and you might actually be right :)

4 hours ago, GeoBrick said:

Looking at the piece count, this Lunar Space Station won't be spectacularly big.

It's a city set, so it'll be a half-build base with one side totally unbuild to allow for inside play, so that will bring down the piece count. I'm not expecting too much, but am excited at the very idea that LEGO are venturing again into sci-fi, even if it's just City sci-fi for now :)

3 hours ago, Exetrius said:

Aren't we just looking/craving for something to army build? Some consistent designs bearing the same insignias, but showing a variety of ranks or specialisations?

Ah Exetrius... if only more had voted for my LEGO Ideas project... ;)

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9 hours ago, Digger of Bricks said:

Out of all the more recent System-based "big bang" themes we've seen so far, Nexo Knights is definitely my favorite; but, I somewhat think that it wouldn't have received as much backlash as it did if it were rather an all-out Space theme instead, as it would've been thought more of as another Space theme rather than a bastardization of Castle.

I agree.  Nexo Knights was basically a Space (Sci-fi) theme with Castle elements shoehorned in.

8 hours ago, MAB said:

In your imagination maybe. However, I see the possibility of four factions here, and that is considering only the good guys with regular torsos. The wolves, the falcons, the horses and dragons. They don't have to be allies.

It would work so much better if they all didn't have the same bright orange for their faction crests.  It would actually be great if that were the case.

4 hours ago, Exetrius said:

Aren't we just looking/craving for something to army build? Some consistent designs bearing the same insignias, but showing a variety of ranks or specialisations?

Very much so, actually.  This goes for the Big 3 Classic themes of Castle, Space, and Pirates.  I didn't include City because it feels like the theme of City is to not have a theme...

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10 hours ago, x105Black said:

 

It would work so much better if they all didn't have the same bright orange for their faction crests.  It would actually be great if that were the case.

 

 

There wee other coloured crests. The reasons I chose those ones were because Macy's torso didn't have the curved sides print like most of the other torsos for her and also they were uniform prints across the different colours.

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4 hours ago, MAB said:

There wee other coloured crests. The reasons I chose those ones were because Macy's torso didn't have the curved sides print like most of the other torsos for her and also they were uniform prints across the different colours.

There were a few, I searched for them, but far too many with the orange.

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After looking through the thread, I'm supprised noone has mentioned the various factions from the 90s and early 2000s. M-tron through insectoids are, in my opinion, the most iconic space themes lego has come up with. I know they weren't the first gen of the space theme, but I feel like they represent the best that lego could come up with before they started creating licensed kits (pre-starwars era space).

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1 hour ago, Elana-chan said:

After looking through the thread, I'm supprised noone has mentioned the various factions from the 90s and early 2000s. M-tron through insectoids are, in my opinion, the most iconic space themes lego has come up with. I know they weren't the first gen of the space theme, but I feel like they represent the best that lego could come up with before they started creating licensed kits (pre-starwars era space).

Well, this is a discussion topic primarily focused upon speculation for the future of LEGO Space, though it has more recently shifted that focus to upcoming and current offerings from other themes that sit within that vein, be it directly or more remotely. And, while it has meandered into a more retrospective angle at times, it usually comes full circle back to future speculation.

Now, having said that, there is a retrospective discussion topic focused upon LEGO Space subthemes of the 90's that did gain some traction you'd might be interested in checking out. :classic:

 

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On 1/12/2019 at 5:41 AM, Elana-chan said:

After looking through the thread, I'm supprised noone has mentioned the various factions from the 90s and early 2000s. M-tron through insectoids are, in my opinion, the most iconic space themes lego has come up with. I know they weren't the first gen of the space theme, but I feel like they represent the best that lego could come up with before they started creating licensed kits (pre-starwars era space).

I would say that it is because that view is in the minority among LEGO Space fans.  There are likely a lot more fans of Classic Space (and Neo / Evolved) and Blacktron than there are of later themes.  I enjoyed Spyrius and Ice Planet at the time, and Space Police gave us cool aliens, but ultimately I want to see the best elements of those themes incorporated into the classics and I think there are more fans of that concept.

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I think the problem with the 90s factions is that they each came in only one, short lived wave. In the eighties, you could build up a space scene over several years, alongside your town scene. In the decade after, you had to collect all of a fraction at once if you wanted to make a consistent scene. If you were only given the occasional set, as I was, you got ships and figures which never fitted with the rest of your collection. It was an ill advised attempt to mimic the marketing of more transient toys. 

 

I can understand the argument that forcing customers to buy a lot in one go would be more profitable, but I think Lego's greatest successes in recent times have been with longer term themes. If there is a new Space line, it must be a long term theme.

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The only way I could see a space theme fitting into the current Lego lineup is for it to be a space exportation theme, like the last artic sets.

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6 hours ago, x105Black said:

I would say that it is because that view is in the minority among LEGO Space fans.  There are likely a lot more fans of Classic Space (and Neo / Evolved) and Blacktron than there are of later themes.  I enjoyed Spyrius and Ice Planet at the time, and Space Police gave us cool aliens, but ultimately I want to see the best elements of those themes incorporated into the classics and I think there are more fans of that concept.

Is the timeframe for the release period the only reason why you don't like the themes from the 90s? If they gave you ample time to build up the collection, and perhaps expanded on it more than they did, would that change your mind? My point was about the themes themselves, not the method by which they were distributed.

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5 hours ago, Bornin1980something said:

I can understand the argument that forcing customers to buy a lot in one go would be more profitable, but I think Lego's greatest successes in recent times have been with longer term themes. If there is a new Space line, it must be a long term theme.

Well, such playthemes are long-term themes because they are successful:wink:

5 hours ago, PaddyBricksplitter said:

The only way I could see a space theme fitting into the current Lego lineup is for it to be a space exportation theme, like the last artic sets.

Well, given what we've heard so far regarding City's upcoming Space subtheme, we'll just have to wait and see how it'll play out! :classic:

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4 hours ago, Elana-chan said:

Is the timeframe for the release period the only reason why you don't like the themes from the 90s? If they gave you ample time to build up the collection, and perhaps expanded on it more than they did, would that change your mind? My point was about the themes themselves, not the method by which they were distributed.

I would argue that the time frame is most of the issue, but the themes themselves didn't have the same charm as Classic Space / Blacktron / Futuron.  There's a lot of love for the Classic Space logo, and there's a lot of love for the Blacktron guys and their mysterious dark outfits and ships.  Those are very appealing things that later themes lacked.  I'm not much of a fan of the colors of some later themes.

Exploriens has a following, but I wasn't a fan of their logos and the designs looked a bit like a hodgepodge of parts.

I liked Unitron a bit more, but I didn't care for the blue and yellow color combination of those themes.

Roboforce was a little off as well.  I wouldn't mind them bringing in some mechs, though.  I would assume that a more modern take on Roboforce would use more modern pieces to make better-looking robots and mechs.  I'd love to see a better-looking Robo Raptor.  But again, I wasn't pulled in by the colors.

The UFO theme got a little bit more interesting, but like Roboforce it relied heavily on trans neon yellow / green and I never really liked that very much, personally.

Insectoids was also interesting, but a little too gimmicky with the insect themed builds.  I think that LEGO attempted to revisit Classic Space with an Insectoids influence with Galaxy Squad, which I like more than Insectoids, but it suffered a bit from the insect gimmick as well.

After that period came Life on Mars and Mars Mission.  I liked the introduction of the Martian aliens, but I don't really like the bodies that they used.  And the theme weirdly felt a bit too grounded for me.

Alien Conquest tried to bring back a little more UFO-styled builds, but it suffered from being a little too cartoonish in my opinion.

I'm not much a fan of the Space Police themes, mostly because the concept of Police irks me a bit.  I do like a lot of the builds and the aliens, but I'm not keen on the Police concept, or the Police minifigures.

But anyways, those are just my opinions on the various themes.  Early Classic Space, Blacktron (black and yellow), and M:Tron are easily the best themes.  A lot of that comes down to the minifigure designs and the overall color schemes of the sets.  I've also said before that I liked the Spyrius and Ice Planet themes.  Ice Planet has an odd color scheme that I don't think works well with much else (aside from Nexo Knights), and Spyrius (like Roboforce) would benefit from more advanced building techniques and modern pieces to make better robots and mechs.  And the Spyrius Droid is one of my favorite minifigures of all time.

That said, all of these concepts could fit within a revived Space theme in various waves.  Perhaps an updated Classic Space / Futuron is the primary faction made up of explorers with different colored uniforms.  One wave could have a Blacktron-like faction as the antagonists.  Another wave could include an M:Tron-like mining colony.  Maybe another wave has them visiting an Ice Planet, but the primary faction should still be the multi-colored explorers.  Additional waves could see mechs and robots inspired by Roboforce and Spyrius.  Some ship builds could be inspired by Exploriens and Unitron, and there could be various aliens throughout inspired by UFO, Insectoids, Alien Conquest, Mars, and Space Police.  The aliens could be mixed in throughout so that they aren't exclusively showing up as antagonists and villains.

Basically, I think they could take the best elements of all Space themes to make the ultimate Space theme.  I can see it working if they do it properly.

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17 hours ago, x105Black said:

That said, all of these concepts could fit within a revived Space theme in various waves.  Perhaps an updated Classic Space / Futuron is the primary faction made up of explorers with different colored uniforms.  One wave could have a Blacktron-like faction as the antagonists.  Another wave could include an M:Tron-like mining colony.  Maybe another wave has them visiting an Ice Planet, but the primary faction should still be the multi-colored explorers.  Additional waves could see mechs and robots inspired by Roboforce and Spyrius.  Some ship builds could be inspired by Exploriens and Unitron, and there could be various aliens throughout inspired by UFO, Insectoids, Alien Conquest, Mars, and Space Police.  The aliens could be mixed in throughout so that they aren't exclusively showing up as antagonists and villains.

Basically, I think they could take the best elements of all Space themes to make the ultimate Space theme.  I can see it working if they do it properly.

They could really easily do a space theme like that, it's a very similar idea to city like how CS way pretty much Town in space.   

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20 hours ago, Digger of Bricks said:

Well, such playthemes are long-term themes because they are successful:wink:

Well, given what we've heard so far regarding City's upcoming Space subtheme, we'll just have to wait and see how it'll play out! :classic:

What have you heard?

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Just now, PaddyBricksplitter said:

What have you heard?

He probably means the set lists that are posted: 

 

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3 minutes ago, JamesBenjamin said:

Well, I certainly hope TLM2 is a gateway to some classic space down the road

What if it was a gateway to..... another dimension!

They say the grass is always greener on the other side; well on the other side of this gateway is a universe where Classic Space never ended and Lepin doesn't exist!! The Lego Group is propering and Classic Space Astronauts and Cosmonauts are exploring every nook and cranny in their known universe.

As if by chance, they discover the gateway at the same moment as we do and set forth to chart our strange galaxy... nay.... UNIVERSE, to it's full extent.

After looking through their magni-glass, they catch the light of our distant star and planet to see Lego from approximately 1985 due to how long it takes the light to travel to their mechanical-eye.

They see the direction that Planet Lego is taking away from their know reality and decide to send brainwaves faster than the speed of light to the Lego Gods (see: you and I) in order to stimulate happy memories of play with Classical Space, which they hope will revitalise the reproduction of their world forever more.

Their best scientists stuggled over how long it would take to fruition and came to the startling conclusion that it won't be until Planet Lego's year 2019 that Classical Space will revive itself.

At that point the transmission ended...

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I think people are quick to dismiss the possibilities for a new Classic Space theme.

Unikitty got her own spinoff theme after the first movie. There's no reason we couldn't get something like that for Benny after part 2. Even if it's just a one-off theme, and not a full Space relaunch, it could be extremely cool.

 

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On 1/13/2019 at 7:05 PM, x105Black said:

I would argue that the time frame is most of the issue, but the themes themselves didn't have the same charm as Classic Space / Blacktron / Futuron.  There's a lot of love for the Classic Space logo, and there's a lot of love for the Blacktron guys and their mysterious dark outfits and ships.  Those are very appealing things that later themes lacked.  I'm not much of a fan of the colors of some later themes.

I think "not having the same charm" is entirely subjective, and that sense of "charm" often depends heavily on nostalgia for one's own childhood themes than anything else.

Mind you, the Classic Space, Space Police, and Blacktron themes originated before I was old enough to enjoy them, I DO think they have some strengths that other Space themes lack by virtue of having each been re-imagined at least once over the years. In other words, they represent sort of a longer tradition/heritage that I can respect even having not lived through their initial debut.

But in terms of my own overall preferences, I think Spyrius is much stronger than Blacktron thanks to having a really solid, coherent conceptual foundation (spies specializing in robots and flying saucers), a more dynamic color palette, and more interesting character designs. And I won't deny that part of this preference is a nostalgic bias for themes that were a big part of MY childhood… though for what it's worth, I don't feel like Exploriens and UFO hold up nearly as well in hindsight as far as the actual builds and character designs are concerned, even though they were favorites of mine back in the day.

Back in the days of Space Police III, I spent extensive time thinking about and trying to build or conceptualize what re-imagined versions of Blacktron, M:Tron, etc. would be like. But one of the real hurdles I had to deal with is that those themes weren't really as clearly defined as Space Police. Every incarnation of Space Police had a clear objective in the galaxy (policing space crimes), a clear relationship to other co-existing factions, and a unified gimmick (futuristic prison pods).

By comparison, M:Tron's objective (emergency response and rescue) was not nearly as obvious from the sets themselves, to the point that a lot of AFOLs who grew up enjoying those sets were never even aware of it! And its core gimmick/play feature, magnets and magnetic containers, are neither obviously related to that objective, nor really practical using modern parts.

As for Blacktron? While for the most part it seems pretty clear that they were a shady network of intergalactic spies much like Spyrius, and designers have already done a brilliant job revamping the Blacktron minifig design language with Rench, the Space Villain, and the Evil Mech, the sets' only especially consistent gimmick/play feature was modularity, which showed up in so many subsequent themes that it no longer feels very special or distinctive to Blacktron at all!

Ultimately, compared to Space Police, which manages to remain distinctive/recognizable for what it is even when its color scheme, logos, and design language change COMPLETELY from one incarnation to the next, the nostalgia for a lot of these other Space themes is so heavily tied to their color scheme, logos, and design language that their actual conceptual strengths are rather dubious. Their popularity is based not only in nostalgia, but in nostalgia for some of the most superficial aspects of their identity.

1 hour ago, danth said:

I think people are quick to dismiss the possibilities for a new Classic Space theme.

Unikitty got her own spinoff theme after the first movie. There's no reason we couldn't get something like that for Benny after part 2. Even if it's just a one-off theme, and not a full Space relaunch, it could be extremely cool.

I think that could be pretty plausible. I mean, for a while I thought that even getting a whole "LEGO Space Movie" spin-off might be a very real possibility, although I don't know that it would be as great an idea now, considering that The LEGO Movie 2 seems to be employing a lot of the kind of space exploration tropes that I would have expected to see in a LEGO Space Movie.

But a theme and/or TV series starring Benny and his friends exploring the stars together? That could have quite a lot of promise! Probably not as a "big bang" property like Ninjago or Nexo Knights, but perhaps as a smaller project like Unikitty or Mixels. Benny has a sort of manic energy that kids love whether or not they know anything at all about Classic Space outside of the LEGO Movie franchise, and that positions him well as the centerpiece of a cast of both literally and figuratively colorful characters. Such a series could benefit greatly from an episodic structure with a blend of action and lighthearted silliness, like Buzz Lightyear of Star Command or Duck Dodgers.

Something of a side-note: I would LOVE to see Benny and Unikitty show up in a Duplo set, sort of like the adorable preschool Emmet and Lucy figures in https://brickset.com/sets/10895-1! A LEGO Movie 2 Duplo set featuring Benny might also be a great proving ground for Duplo space sets in general, which have been remarkably scarce compared to Duplo town, castle, or pirates sets (licensed and non-licensed alike).

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2 hours ago, Aanchir said:

Ultimately, compared to Space Police, which manages to remain distinctive/recognizable for what it is even when its color scheme, logos, and design language change COMPLETELY from one incarnation to the next, the nostalgia for a lot of these other Space themes is so heavily tied to their color scheme, logos, and design language that their actual conceptual strengths are rather dubious. Their popularity is based not only in nostalgia, but in nostalgia for some of the most superficial aspects of their identity.

I think you downplay the role of things like color schemes, logos, and designs.  They may be superficial aspects, but they are no less important to the fans, and a big part of what those fans look for in a new Space theme.

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51 minutes ago, x105Black said:

I think you downplay the role of things like color schemes, logos, and designs.  They may be superficial aspects, but they are no less important to the fans, and a big part of what those fans look for in a new Space theme.

Color scheme was one of the main things that peaked my interest for Nexo Knights, and I do mean the Trans-Neon Orange over anything else, so it can indeed play a big role in some cases.

I always loved Trans Neon Orange, and Trans Neon Yellow over many other colors due to 90s Space/Aquasharks and such.

 

I only had the Aquashark submarine set, and 2 small Ice planet sets but I used those neon orange parts all the time in builds as a kid, mainly combined with the wing pieces from a 928 Classic Space Galaxy explorer to make a jet/spaceship design out of it.

90s space for me will always have a big nostalgia factor even while we had some Classic space sets in the house, I never experienced Classic Space when it was actual.

Edited by TeriXeri

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6 minutes ago, x105Black said:

I think you downplay the role of things like color schemes, logos, and designs.  They may be superficial aspects, but they are no less important to the fans, and a big part of what those fans look for in a new Space theme.

For the old-time fans, sure. But they're not really the sorts of aspects that help to make the factions and themes themselves timeless for kids. Some of the stuff like the angular contours of the windows and windscreens back then now feels more antiquated than futuristic… a kid today will usually expect more streamlining than a kid in the 80s might have. The deliberately limited color palette back then meant that a lot of the color schemes in ALL themes back then (not just Space) didn't have a whole lot of room for nuance compared to what kids have come to expect in today's sets.

And while some LEGO Space logos including the classic one have aged pretty well, the Space Police 1 and 2 logos (literally just the word "POLICE" or the words "SPACE POLICE" with colored lines above and below) or the Blacktron 1 logo (a plain yellow Sierpinski triangle) felt extremely dated to me even in the mid 90s when I was first getting into LEGO and coming across those parts in yard sale lots.

Now, of course, my childhood is also when we saw LEGO's graphic design start to go way too far in the other direction, with the extremely cluttered and chaotic decorated elements that began to show up in themes like U.F.O. and Insectoids. But I think since then, I feel like LEGO graphic designers have arrived at a good middle ground — just enough detail to make designs feel authentic and interesting but not downright messy, and minifigure designs that are neither so standardized that they feel boring and generic, nor so varied that they feel out-of-place or unsettling like so many late 90s/early 2000s minifigures.

For kids, there's nothing that would make new sets with the Blacktron or M:Tron logos and colors any more interesting or meaningful than giving the same sets entirely new logos and color schemes — in fact, a logo that's basically a big letter M that's not even in a particularly unique-looking font would probably feel downright cheesy compared the more elegant and meaningful logos that often show up in themes like Ninjago, Friends, Star Wars, Elves, Super Heroes, and even City.

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I don't know.  You left out the most important LEGO Space logo, Classic Space.  And a lot of kids today do identify with it, mostly from its use on Benny and CMF characters.  I think that logo holds up today.

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2 hours ago, x105Black said:

I don't know.  You left out the most important LEGO Space logo, Classic Space.  And a lot of kids today do identify with it, mostly from its use on Benny and CMF characters.  I think that logo holds up today.

I was just about to say that! :)

absolutely agree. That logo was simple yet extremely evocative and compared to the others mentioned above still feels modern in some way. 

It’s a timeless classic which the other space themes have not managed to outdo. 

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