David Thomsen

Future Pirates Speculation

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, Mister Phes said:

Yes we can because we are also consumers of their product and for us to continue buying their product, we should hold them to a certain standard.

 

You don't feel the standard of the 2015 sets were good? I think they were. Several of them were too similar to the 2009 wave, yes - but that doesn't take away from the good quality of the sets. For someone who didn't get the 2009 wave, which was most of their target demographic, it was all new, fresh and good quality.

Doing Pirates, there's simply some sets that will always be on repeat, because they are so throughly associated with pirates in our culture; big pirate ship, treasure island, soldier's fort, a raft, etc.. If you want to deviate from those iconic types of sets, you'll end up with their Armada and Islanders stuff - and while I realize there are plenty of fans for that, it really wasn't for me. I'd rather have another 2009/20015-ish wave than something like that.

Now, if they were to do more waves, they could broaden the lineup more - but if they are to release 7 sets for a single wave, they will of course always send out what they see as the "sure things".

Edited by Hive

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13 hours ago, Mister Phes said:

Ninjago...  Nexo Knights,,, and the like...  I hate how they combine the traditional themes with technological crap.

However, Ithink the Ninjago sets in which the technocrap is kept to a minimum are pretty good.

But I wouldn't want to taint the Pirate theme with that just to have regular new set releases.

Actually if TLG would not dare to leave behind these theme mashups I'd be interested in a steampunk-pirate kind of theme like what Disney's Treasure Planet was.

4083.jpg

It really had some unique atmosphere and this could satisfy steampunk space, pirate, ninjago and maybe even castle fans as well.

783b7132990f214b42764292d76ccf3f.jpg

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7 hours ago, Medzomorak said:

Actually if TLG would not dare to leave behind these theme mashups I'd be interested in a steampunk-pirate kind of theme like what Disney's Treasure Planet was.

:pir-oh3:

I'll spare you a rant about my disdain for steampunk.

13 hours ago, Hive said:

You don't feel the standard of the 2015 sets were good? I think they were. Several of them were too similar to the 2009 wave, yes - but that doesn't take away from the good quality of the sets.

Quality is not the only factor when considering a purchase.  There has to be a certain degree of innovation and I feel they were too derivative of what had been released before.

13 hours ago, Hive said:

. For someone who didn't get the 2009 wave, which was most of their target demographic, it was all new, fresh and good quality.

I've been following LEGO Pirates since 1990, so pretty much from the beginning. 

When the 2009 set were released, it was seen as "return to form" by many long-term Pirates fans.  Since Pirates ended their run in 1997, all we'd had were 4 released sets, the hideous 4+ Pirates  and Duplo Pirates, so finally we got some new SYSTEM LEGO Pirates sets!  We were quite ecstatic about that.

Then the same formula was repeated in 2015 (more or less), and it felt a little tired.  There's more to the LEGO Pirates universe than soldiers and pirates, so it's about these ideas were explored.

But yeah, that's the point of the 5-7 year release cycle, so even if the new wave of sets don't push new frontiers, it won't be the same kids buying them anyway.

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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, Hive said:

You don't feel the standard of the 2015 sets were good? I think they were. Several of them were too similar to the 2009 wave, yes - but that doesn't take away from the good quality of the sets. For someone who didn't get the 2009 wave, which was most of their target demographic, it was all new, fresh and good quality.

Doing Pirates, there's simply some sets that will always be on repeat, because they are so throughly associated with pirates in our culture; big pirate ship, treasure island, soldier's fort, a raft, etc.. If you want to deviate from those iconic types of sets, you'll end up with their Armada and Islanders stuff - and while I realize there are plenty of fans for that, it really wasn't for me. I'd rather have another 2009/20015-ish wave than something like that.

Now, if they were to do more waves, they could broaden the lineup more - but if they are to release 7 sets for a single wave, they will of course always send out what they see as the "sure things".

What would have made the 2015 wave much better would have been much larger sets besides the ship. I mean 30€ for the second biggest set in line? Bigger sets would mean more options to differentiate them. And of course Priates will always be similiar. Just like a medieval theme will always contain castles and knights.

I think, that Pirates should always be a basic theme together with City and Castle, without any overarching story or concept, sometimes with less sets, sometimes with more, mabye some special waves from time to time but always fitting together. But the sun has set on such themes and I will go and paint my Revell Victory...

Edited by mon-o-mat

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Just now, Medzomorak said:

Actually if TLG would not dare to leave behind these theme mashups I'd be interested in a steampunk-pirate kind of theme like what Disney's Treasure Planet was.

4083.jpg

It really had some unique atmosphere and this could satisfy steampunk space, pirate, ninjago and maybe even castle fans as well.

783b7132990f214b42764292d76ccf3f.jpg

I didn't know about this movie. Downloaded and watched it.

I really enjoyed it, has good music too.

Thanks!

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, Mister Phes said:

:pir-oh3:

I'll spare you a rant about my disdain for steampunk.

Now you got me hooked. :kahuka: 

Also no need to spare me, I'm not a steampunk evangelist. I consider myself quite the classic pirate purist on the other hand, I'm just accepted the fact that with Lego it may always belong to the past. Also steampunk was never properly explored by TLG, only Time Cruisers and a couple of Ninjago hodgepodges had something similar. 

11 hours ago, Brickander Brickumnus said:

I didn't know about this movie. Downloaded and watched it.

I really enjoyed it, has good music too.

Thanks!

Haha, I help where I can, I'm glad you've enjoyed it :D I think Disney had some pretty interesting era with these unsuccessful but quite unique tales (Emperor's New Groove, Sinbad, Treasure Planet, Atlantis, Eldorado..).

Edited by Medzomorak

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19 hours ago, Medzomorak said:

Actually if TLG would not dare to leave behind these theme mashups I'd be interested in a steampunk-pirate kind of theme like what Disney's Treasure Planet was.

It really had some unique atmosphere and this could satisfy steampunk space, pirate, ninjago and maybe even castle fans as well.

No, not like Treasure Planet please... :sceptic: ...as I've expressed here before, I would absolutely be down for a Steampunk Sky Pirates/Space Pirates theme, but one that has sail ships with thrusters slapped on is just plain lazy, as they've got to be either dirigibles or airtight enclosed space freighters with a Eighteenth Century flare.

6 minutes ago, Medzomorak said:

I think Disney had some pretty interesting era with these unsuccessful but quite unique tales (Emperor's New Groove, Sinbad, Treasure Planet, Atlantis, Eldorado..).

Disney's Atlantis: The Lost Empire is one of my favorites among those early 2000's animated movies... :thumbup: :blush:

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Digger of Bricks said:

No, not like Treasure Planet please... :sceptic: ...as I've expressed here before, I would absolutely be down for a Steampunk Sky Pirates/Space Pirates theme, but one that has sail ships with thrusters slapped on is just plain lazy, as they've got to be either dirigibles or airtight enclosed space freighters with a Eighteenth Century flare.

Well, Treasure Planet wasn't really space nor sea based it was some pseudo-fantastic-vernian mixture of both. It is surrealistic in a Wiener Phantastischen Realismus way. Even describing it is messed up. :laugh:

 7cwk1rbtafjq4dvdadxba47a0v576r.jpg


I think it is better than nothing and Lego isn't really being fond of classic ideas these days, so I'm just making my own out-of-the box speculations. Industrial revolution based steampunk is another story for sure. I might take the Adventurers direction there instead of Piracy myself. The airtight enclosed space freighters mentioned by you is more like the Space Police category, don't you agree?

Anyway, I'd be very disappointed with another 2009-2015 one year wave clone again so I am ready for some compromises.

Edited by Medzomorak

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13 minutes ago, Medzomorak said:

Industrial revolution based steampunk is another story for sure. I might take the Adventurers direction there instead of Piracy myself. 

Given the choice, yes, I'd take a Steampunk'd Adventurers theme with an Vernian/Industrial Era setting over a Steampunk'd Pirates theme any day... :thumbup: :smug:

16 minutes ago, Medzomorak said:

The airtight enclosed space freighters mentioned by you is more like the Space Police category, don't you agree?

Well, yes, such a theme could go that way stylistically, or it could adopt the stylistic sensibilities of Eighteenth Century associated with the Golden Age of Piracy for the sake of that vibe, all the while staying within more "realistic" confines. Think of it more as a retro-futuristic space theme, if you will... :shrug_oh_well:

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1 hour ago, Medzomorak said:

Haha, I help where I can, I'm glad you've enjoyed it :D I think Disney had some pretty interesting era with these unsuccessful but quite unique tales (Emperor's New Groove, Sinbad, Treasure Planet, Atlantis, Eldorado..).

I don't think Atlantis (which got a sequel) and Emperor's New Groove (sequel and TV series) were unsuccessful. I still see Kuzco memes.

I still think LEGO could be planning a minidoll Pirates theme. All this discussion about the usual target demographic for a normal Pirates theme got me thinking that (the seemingly delayed) Monkey Kid is intended for that group. The demographic that Elves was the target of seems underserved by the current crop of Disney Princesses based sets. The Friends storyline has enough layered in there for a time travel story that would justify a Pirates theme. If you think that wouldn't appeal to girls, I'd suggest looking at how the popularity of Outlander has filtered down to the younger female generations.

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Just now, gedren_y said:

I don't think Atlantis (which got a sequel) and Emperor's New Groove (sequel and TV series) were unsuccessful.

Well, the "sequel" that Atlantis got was just a direct-to-home release that was essentially three stitched-together episodes of a cancelled spin-off TV show. 

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17 hours ago, gedren_y said:

I don't think Atlantis (which got a sequel) and Emperor's New Groove (sequel and TV series) were unsuccessful. I still see Kuzco memes

Although over time those early 2000's animated movies got some massive cult followings, most of them performed poorly during their initial release. That's the reason why Disney almost never even mentions those movies.

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10 hours ago, Lego David said:

Although over time those early 2000's animated movies got some massive cult followings, most of them performed poorly during their initial release. That's the reason why Disney almost never even mentions those movies.

AFAIK out of all those movies Hercules was the only succesfull one ,for some reason, and gave Disney faith in animation back.

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Posted (edited)

Not all of those movies did poorly (and Sinbad and Road to Eldorado weren't even Disney movies); it's just that overall there were a lot of movies that didn't catch on at the box office during that period, which tended to eclipse the successful films. Not all the movies that did badly were bad movies either (Hercules was among the ones whose numbers were considered disappointing) and many of them have become popular on home video.

Treasure Planet was one that bombed particularly badly, though.  That being said, Treasure Planet is a personal favorite of mine. :)

Edited by TalonCard

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I think there's a  good way to design an Airship and not have it pegged as Steampunk. I tried doing just that a couple years ago for Lego Ideas! 20170125_162718.jpg

 Didn't make the century club (60-100 upvotes).

 Have since honed and revised the idea, and may make another attempt to pitch it as a set after the next wave of LEGO releases!

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On 3/9/2020 at 11:08 PM, Medzomorak said:

Also no need to spare me, I'm not a steampunk evangelist.

I like my LEGO Pirates without anachronistic technology being incorporated, whether that be a thousand years into the future, or just a hundred.

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22 minutes ago, Mister Phes said:

I like my LEGO Pirates without anachronistic technology being incorporated, whether that be a thousand years into the future, or just a hundred.

Yes, we're fans of romanticized piracy of a certain historical era. But piracy is a boarder term so it is more like an anachronistic technology incorporated with piracy.

So if we'd get a theme like that, I'd say I want pirates in them as well.

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50 minutes ago, Medzomorak said:

But piracy is a boarder term so it is more like an anachronistic technology incorporated with piracy.

Indeed.  E.g. Space Pirates.

Actually, I wouldn't mind Space Pirates in the context of the LEGO Space theme, but I wouldn't like romanticized piracy combined with futuristic space technology.

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13 minutes ago, Mister Phes said:

Actually, I wouldn't mind Space Pirates in the context of the LEGO Space theme, but I wouldn't like romanticized piracy combined with futuristic space technology.

Same here for sure, though as I expressed earlier, I don't really think it'd be that bad if a proper Space Pirates theme had a little bit of an Eighteenth Century stylistic flare about its overall aesthetic while maintaining a futuristic technological context.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Digger of Bricks said:

Same here for sure, though as I expressed earlier, I don't really think it'd be that bad if a proper Space Pirates theme had a little bit of an Eighteenth Century stylistic flare about its overall aesthetic while maintaining a futuristic technological context.

Hmm, but isn't that one of the definitons of steampunk? Or maybe it is not if I think about it now.

I'm thinking of David Lynch's 1984 Dune. That was something like that, wasn't it? I would not call that steampunk but it is very close to what you say. Altough, it's a bit more late 19th, early 20th century imperialism instead of 18th.

Anyway there's some unexplored ground there for TLG for sure.

Edited by Medzomorak

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Medzomorak said:

Hmm, but isn't that one of the definitons of steampunk? Or maybe it is not if I think about it now.

Well, as Wikipedia puts it...

Quote

Steampunk is a retrofuturistic subgenre of science fiction or science fantasy that incorporates technology and aesthetic designs inspired by 19th-Century industrial steam-powered machinery. Although its literary origins are sometimes associated with the Cyberpunk genre, Steampunk works are often set in an alternative history of the 19th century British Victorian era or the American "Wild West", in a future during which steam power has maintained mainstream usage, or in a fantasy world that similarly employs steam power.

Steampunk most recognizably features anachronistic technologies or retrofuturistic inventions as people in the 19th Century might have envisioned them, and is likewise rooted in the era's perspective on fashion, culture, architectural style, and art.

Steampunk also refers to any of the artistic styles, clothing fashions, or subcultures that have developed from the aesthetics of steampunk fiction, Victorian-Era fiction, Art Nouveau design, and films from the mid-20th century. Various modern utilitarian objects have been modded by individual artisans into a pseudo-Victorian mechanical "Steampunk" style, and a number of visual and musical artists have been described as Steampunk.

So yeah, by its loosest definition, Steampunk can merely refer to artistic styles and fashions inspired after the literary genre's Victorian Era technologies and stylistic sensibilities; but, what I had in mind wouldn't quite fall under that umbrella, as the anachronistic inspirations would likely be too subtle for it to be thought of as even Steampunkish. Looking around, I did find this one guy on ArtStation who's conceptual artwork for "Space Pirates" comes sorta close to what I somewhat had in mind...

ArtStation - Space Pirates by Kenneth Solis

kenneth-solis-ks-pirates2-redcoat.jpg?1488090450kenneth-solis-ks-pirates2-captain.jpg?1488090445kenneth-solis-ks-pirates2-pirate.jpg?1488090448kenneth-solis-ks-pirates45-hallway.jpg?1488114714

Edited by Digger of Bricks

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On 3/10/2020 at 6:27 PM, Jevil said:

I think there's a  good way to design an Airship and not have it pegged as Steampunk. I tried doing just that a couple years ago for Lego Ideas! 20170125_162718.jpg

THAT IS AWESOME!

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11 hours ago, danth said:

THAT IS AWESOME!

Wait until you see 'The Adventure Galleon, Mk. 3!

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I just hope we see the return of Pirates of the Caribbean at some point.  It’s such a shame we never got The Flying Dutchman or a D2C Black Pearl.  

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6 hours ago, Legoman123 said:

I just hope we see the return of Pirates of the Caribbean at some point.  It’s such a shame we never got The Flying Dutchman or a D2C Black Pearl.  

I agree, that lineup gave us some very good sets, figures and new piratey parts. And the two first ships were great.

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