David Thomsen

Future Pirates Speculation

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I had hoped for new potc line - besides the new ship that is - if it isnt based on some license I doubt we will get anything serious any time soon. Probably just another rehash - treasure island, outpost-mini fort, ship - maybe some monkeys ☺

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On 17.5.2017 at 1:25 PM, Dreamweb said:

Count me in as the one who thinks we will have some new pirate sets when the 30th anniversary is here.

What I would really like to see is a smaller ship with completely new narrow hull pieces, similar to the old Imperial Flagship or Armada Flagship...

I also think, that a narrower shiphull would be a nice thing. There would be place for a second ship in  a lineup without having two ships too similiar in size without having an 'Imperial Flagship' type one (Although it was only 120 or 140€ back then). The alternative would be planning two waves of pirates (What a dream) with one big fortress and one ship each. After trying to build some of the sets I imagined in LDD(I should upload pictures) I think that a new raised groundplate would be really usefull, but I don't think TLC still likes them.

Edited by mon-o-mat

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Over on the 2018 Nexo Knights topic, EB user @Falconfan1414 has told us that the Nexo Knights theme may be drawing to a close, and also that a successor theme will be arriving most likely come January 2019.

So it just hit me this morning. What if this potential upcoming "big bang" theme may draw inspiration from the Pirates theme, given 2019 will be the theme's thirtieth anniversary? How would you feel about a "big bang" take on Pirates; and, if you didn't mind the idea, how would you want to see such a theme done and/or not done? :shrug_oh_well:

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"Big Bang" meaning with a lot of media-support and so? I would like it if it would be mystical kinda like PotC with sea-monsters, native witches and ancient ruins.  But not another tech/history mix.

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6 minutes ago, mon-o-mat said:

"Big Bang" meaning with a lot of media-support and so?

Yes, since that's how Lego seems to roll with themes like that now.

7 minutes ago, mon-o-mat said:

I would like it if it would be mystical kinda like PotC with sea-monsters, native witches and ancient ruins.  But not another tech/history mix.

Definitely agree with you on that direction, but as far as tech goes, I wouldn't mind seeing DaVinci-Punk/Clockpunk technology incorporated into the theme. Taking the theme into the "smartphone app" high tech route again would just be ridiculous.

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Clock-punk pirates would be fun! If this did happen, it would be interesting to see what some of the cheaper sets turn out like...

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Just now, J4ck said:

Clock-punk pirates would be fun! If this did happen, it would be interesting to see what some of the cheaper sets turn out like...

I never watched the movie, since it was poorly received by critics, but this 2011 adaptation of The Three Musketeers has been described by some as having Clockpunk qualities. Perhaps it could serve as an idea for a theme that sits in this sort of vein.

IMDb - The Three Musketeers (2011)

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1 hour ago, Digger of Bricks said:

I never watched the movie, since it was poorly received by critics, but this 2011 adaptation of The Three Musketeers has been described by some as having Clockpunk qualities. Perhaps it could serve as an idea for a theme that sits in this sort of vein.

IMDb - The Three Musketeers (2011)

I watched it, I enjoyed it. Isn't clockpunk and steam punk sorta the same thing?

Edited by J4ck
Changed "click pink" into "clock punk"

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3 hours ago, J4ck said:

Isn't clockpunk and steam punk sorta the same thing?

Yes, but if the setting involves a world where steam combustion hasn't come into being, but clockwork automation is prominent in spite of that, then it would therefore be described as Clockpunk. Here I have posted below Wikipedia's definition:

Wikipedia - Cyberpunk Derivatives (Clockpunk)

Quote

Clockpunk portrays Renaissance-era science and technology based on pre-modern designs, in the vein of Mainspring by Jay Lake, and Whitechapel Gods by S. M. Peters. Examples of clockpunk include Astro-Knights Island in the nonlinear game Poptropica, the 2011 film version of The Three Musketeers, the game Thief: The Dark Project, and the game Syberia.

The term was coined by the GURPS role playing system.

 

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12 hours ago, Digger of Bricks said:

Yes, but if the setting involves a world where steam combustion hasn't come into being, but clockwork automation is prominent in spite of that, then it would therefore be described as Clockpunk. Here I have posted below Wikipedia's definition:

Wikipedia - Cyberpunk Derivatives (Clockpunk)

Oh brilliant! Thank you very much!

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18 hours ago, Digger of Bricks said:

Yes, but if the setting involves a world where steam combustion hasn't come into being, but clockwork automation is prominent in spite of that, then it would therefore be described as Clockpunk. Here I have posted below Wikipedia's definition:

Wikipedia - Cyberpunk Derivatives (Clockpunk)

 

I prefer calling a heavy mix of Pre-Steam Punk and Pirates Bilge-Punk, personally.

 They're close to figuring out how Steam Combustion works, but the Pirates pour anything into the Engines, Salt Water, Swill, Rum, and with varying, often times disastrous, results. 

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I don't generally acknowledge The Brick Show, because a number of their videos betray a lack of knowledge of Lego's history, but they have images of a Pirates themed rollercoaster Creator set. I'm not going to link the posting because even they acknowledge that the images aren't officially released, and may get them in trouble with TLG. I only saw it because Model Building Secrets shared it on Facebook.

I mention this here because I think this does not bode well for an actual Pirates theme. The potentially costly nature of this set is obviously a point to the idea that a classic Pirates theme appeals more to adults than to children.

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I would love to see Pirates return in some form for the 30th anniversary next year. Just hope it doesn't get the full on fantasy treatment in the same atyle as Nexo Knights. It would be nice to have a follow up to the 2015 pirate line but hopefully this time it would stick around longer than just one year.

Even if they don't re-launch the pirate theme next year, I would like them to at least acknowledge the 30th anniversary in some way. A massive Creator Expert pirate ship aimed at adult collectors and designed to rival the Imperial Flagship would be incredible.

Edited by Bricked1980

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1 minute ago, Bricked1980 said:

I would love to see Pirates return in some form for the 30th anniversary next year. Just hope it doesn't get the full on fantasy treatment in the same atyle as Nexo Knights. It would be nice to have a follow up to the 2015 pirate line but hopefully this time it would stick around longer than just one year.

Well, why can't we see a Pirates theme that at least has a light fantasy element to it, particularly pertaining to the theme's adversaries? I'm not necessarily suggesting that the next Pirates theme be an all out Space theme, only that it would introduce never-before-seen supernatural elements like antagonistic ghost/undead rival pirates, for instance. 

But hey, rival pirates in general have never been seen in a in-house Pirates theme before, so they don't necessarily have to be "undead". I know we've seen elements like that before in POTC, but it would interesting to see an in-house take on that plotline, as opposed to rehashing the usual pirates verses the imperial navy premise.

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1 minute ago, Digger of Bricks said:

Well, why can't we see a Pirates theme that at least has a light fantasy element to it, particularly pertaining to the theme's adversaries? I'm not necessarily suggesting that the next Pirates theme be an all out Space theme, only that it would introduce never-before-seen supernatural elements like antagonistic ghost/undead rival pirates, for instance. 

But hey, rival pirates in general have never been seen in a in-house Pirates theme before, so they don't necessarily have to be "undead". I know we've seen elements like that before in POTC, but it would interesting to see an in-house take on that plotline, as opposed to rehashing the usual pirates verses the imperial navy premise.

I agree. I wouldn't mind fantasy elements like sea monsters, mermaids or Pirates of the Caribbean style zombie ghost pirates. My biggest fear is that Lego Pirates would get the Nexo Knights treatment and suddenly we'd get Flying Pirate ships with Lazer guns etc.

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2 minutes ago, Bricked1980 said:

I agree. I wouldn't mind fantasy elements like sea monsters, mermaids or Pirates of the Caribbean style zombie ghost pirates. 

Here's another idea, how about a Pirates theme with a Treasure Island like storyline, where the pirates are the theme's antagonists, and its protagonists are a group of young, adventurous stowaways? :shrug_oh_well:

7 minutes ago, Bricked1980 said:

My biggest fear is that Lego Pirates would get the Nexo Knights treatment and suddenly we'd get Flying Pirate ships with Lazer guns etc.

Kind of like this movie:imperialguard_commander1:

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8 minutes ago, Digger of Bricks said:

Here's another idea, how about a Pirates theme with a Treasure Island like storyline, where the pirates are the theme's antagonists, and its protagonists are a group of young, adventurous stowaways? :shrug_oh_well:

Actually something like that would work pretty well. Lets face it, if Lego wanted to bring Pirates back as a major multi year theme, then they would almost certainly want to create characters and a deeply embedded story line with the potential for extra merchandising like comics, cartoons, video games etc.

I would prefer they did this as opposed to just a single wave of sets consisting of the usual recycled ideas of Pirate Ship, Soldiers Fort and Skull shaped Pirate hideout.

Edited by Bricked1980

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On 2.2.2018 at 4:04 PM, Bricked1980 said:

Actually something like that would work pretty well. Lets face it, if Lego wanted to bring Pirates back as a major multi year theme, then they would almost certainly want to create characters and a deeply embedded story line with the potential for extra merchandising like comics, cartoons, video games etc.

I would prefer they did this as opposed to just a single wave of sets consisting of the usual recycled ideas of Pirate Ship, Soldiers Fort and Skull shaped Pirate hideout.

I would like to see such a thing too. The only problem I see with such storydriven things is that they also tend to be very short lived if not heavily vehicle based. I think this is a general problem with Lego this days. There can be dozends of vehicles in a theme that all will be very diferent in size, appearance and functions while landscapes or buildings are always quite similiar and lackluster to be fair.

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On 2/2/2018 at 9:56 AM, Digger of Bricks said:

Kind of like this movie:imperialguard_commander1:

I can certainly respect people's wish for something they could use with their more traditional fleets, and honestly even having never been a huge pirate ship collector I've been really into boats and ships lately. But I have to admit I would totally dig a "space pirate" series in the same vein as Treasure Planet! (There's a movie I really need to watch again sometime…)

15 hours ago, mon-o-mat said:

I would like to see such a thing too. The only problem I see with such storydriven things is that they also tend to be very short lived if not heavily vehicle based. I think this is a general problem with Lego this days. There can be dozends of vehicles in a theme that all will be very diferent in size, appearance and functions while landscapes or buildings are always quite similiar and lackluster to be fair.

I wouldn't say story-driven themes being "short-lived" is a huge problem to worry about. To put things in perspective, Exo-Force and Nexo Knights each lasted five waves, Atlantis and Power Miners each lasted three waves (four waves in North America, where the final wave of each was split in two), Ninjago was meant to last five waves and ended up lasting much longer, and Elves is now in its seventh wave and gearing up for its eighth. By comparison, the last two non-licensed incarnations of Pirates basically lasted one wave each. You can't get any more short-lived than that, and a two or three year run with two waves per year would be a pretty substantial improvement.

Also, isn't Pirates "heavily vehicle based" by default? It's just that the vehicles are ships and boats rather than, say, mechs or aircraft or motorcycles. But the vehicle play potential is already there. I wouldn't say that buildings and landscapes are totally lackluster in these sorts of themes, either. Maybe in some themes like Power Miners or Nexo Knights that is the case, but the Elves theme is positively brimming with detailed settings, and while Ninjago usually only gets one to three location-based sets per wave, a lot of those tend to be pretty detailed and varied in their own right. Compare Tiger Widow Island, The Lighthouse Siege, Kryptarium Prison Breakout, Airjitzu Battle Grounds, Samurai X Cave Chaos, and Dragon's Forge, and realize those sets all came out within a year and a half of one another.

A big wish I have for the next Pirates theme is the same wish I keep expressing for new Castle sets (and which Nexo Knights and Elves have both done a better job delivering on than most traditional themes): make it feel livable! The Destiny's Bounty from The LEGO Ninjago Movie is a good example — it has very nice details to make it feel livable like a bedroom and a toilet. A typical pirate ship or naval vessel obviously wouldn't need to feel quite as modern or cozy, but in the very least I think it ought to be built for play scenarios that extend beyond ship-to-ship combat. Give it some hammocks, a galley kitchen, etc! Anything to make it feel like its inhabitants' lives aren't just one big fight after the next.

Again, this seems to be something that story-driven themes do quite well… perhaps because kids grow to care enough about the characters enough that they're interested in the stuff they do beyond what's "archetypical" of a character in that role. A kid might not care what a generic knight or ninja or pirate gets up to when he's not out fighting, but give that knight or ninja or pirate a story and motivations and suddenly their leisure time, their personal interests, and their relationships with their teammates/crewmates start to matter a great deal more.

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1 hour ago, Aanchir said:

But I have to admit I would totally dig a "space pirate" series in the same vein as Treasure Planet! (There's a movie I really need to watch again sometime…)

Yeah, I myself would like to see a Space Pirates theme too, but not in the way Treasure Planet handled it. Like with Ninjago, I found that movie clever in concept, but dumb in its execution of technical concepts and aesthetics. For instance, why couldn't the film's voyager craft instead be large, enclosed space freighters with layout and design inspired after 18th century sailing vessels, as opposed to near direct copies of those vessels with thrusters slapped on in a tacky manner? I know the movie was more akin to fantasy as opposed to science fiction, but they could of at least tried to inject a little bit of plausible realism into the film.

Like I said elsewhere earlier, that's why I like ths Nexo Knights theme over Ninjago, as the former seemed more thought out in its overlapping/meshing of parallels.

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4 hours ago, Digger of Bricks said:

Yeah, I myself would like to see a Space Pirates theme too, but not in the way Treasure Planet handled it. Like with Ninjago, I found that movie clever in concept, but dumb in its execution of technical concepts and aesthetics. For instance, why couldn't the film's voyager craft instead be large, enclosed space freighters with layout and design inspired after 18th century sailing vessels, as opposed to near direct copies of those vessels with thrusters slapped on in a tacky manner? I know the movie was more akin to fantasy as opposed to science fiction, but they could of at least tried to inject a little bit of plausible realism into the film.

Like I said elsewhere earlier, that's why I like ths Nexo Knights theme over Ninjago, as the former seemed more thought out in its overlapping/meshing of parallels.

The ironic thing about this statement to me is that Destiny's Bounty, arguably Ninjago's single most iconic vehicle, has usually been depicted as an ship with thrusters slapped on in a tacky manner. :tongue: I suppose I get your point, though.

Side note, this conversation's got me reminiscing about the awesome space pirate ship that Bret Harris exhibited at BrickFair Virginia a few years back!

Edited by Aanchir

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1 hour ago, Aanchir said:

The ironic thing about this statement to me is that Destiny's Bounty, arguably Ninjago's single most iconic vehicle, has usually been depicted as an ship with thrusters slapped on in a tacky manner. :tongue: I suppose I get your point, though.

But at least the Destiny's Bounty never ventured into space, right? Unless something like that happened in the TV show (give me a break), the Bounty was at least an airship, not a spaceship.

But, since you've brought up the Bounty, if I were to of designed that set, I would have had the ship either propeller driven with steam boilers or propelled by medieval oriental rocket technologies, at least in a hyper-advanced state.

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19 hours ago, Aanchir said:

I can certainly respect people's wish for something they could use with their more traditional fleets, and honestly even having never been a huge pirate ship collector I've been really into boats and ships lately. But I have to admit I would totally dig a "space pirate" series in the same vein as Treasure Planet! (There's a movie I really need to watch again sometime…)

I wouldn't say story-driven themes being "short-lived" is a huge problem to worry about. To put things in perspective, Exo-Force and Nexo Knights each lasted five waves, Atlantis and Power Miners each lasted three waves (four waves in North America, where the final wave of each was split in two), Ninjago was meant to last five waves and ended up lasting much longer, and Elves is now in its seventh wave and gearing up for its eighth. By comparison, the last two non-licensed incarnations of Pirates basically lasted one wave each. You can't get any more short-lived than that, and a two or three year run with two waves per year would be a pretty substantial improvement.

Also, isn't Pirates "heavily vehicle based" by default? It's just that the vehicles are ships and boats rather than, say, mechs or aircraft or motorcycles. But the vehicle play potential is already there. I wouldn't say that buildings and landscapes are totally lackluster in these sorts of themes, either. Maybe in some themes like Power Miners or Nexo Knights that is the case, but the Elves theme is positively brimming with detailed settings, and while Ninjago usually only gets one to three location-based sets per wave, a lot of those tend to be pretty detailed and varied in their own right. Compare Tiger Widow Island, The Lighthouse Siege, Kryptarium Prison Breakout, Airjitzu Battle Grounds, Samurai X Cave Chaos, and Dragon's Forge, and realize those sets all came out within a year and a half of one another.

A big wish I have for the next Pirates theme is the same wish I keep expressing for new Castle sets (and which Nexo Knights and Elves have both done a better job delivering on than most traditional themes): make it feel livable! The Destiny's Bounty from The LEGO Ninjago Movie is a good example — it has very nice details to make it feel livable like a bedroom and a toilet. A typical pirate ship or naval vessel obviously wouldn't need to feel quite as modern or cozy, but in the very least I think it ought to be built for play scenarios that extend beyond ship-to-ship combat. Give it some hammocks, a galley kitchen, etc! Anything to make it feel like its inhabitants' lives aren't just one big fight after the next.

Again, this seems to be something that story-driven themes do quite well… perhaps because kids grow to care enough about the characters enough that they're interested in the stuff they do beyond what's "archetypical" of a character in that role. A kid might not care what a generic knight or ninja or pirate gets up to when he's not out fighting, but give that knight or ninja or pirate a story and motivations and suddenly their leisure time, their personal interests, and their relationships with their teammates/crewmates start to matter a great deal more.

Ok, I underestimated the location based sets for Ninjago, I thought that it was mostly "crazy vehicles" like it was definitley true for Exo-Force or Nexo Knights.

When talking about story driven location-sets I was thinking about Indiana Jones or PotC (and also Hobbit and LotRs) where many sets were good for nothing but replaying that single scene from the movie.

I have to agree with the second part of your reply. Making the Pirates and their ships unique characters would produce better sales than having that same Captain Eyepatch-Hook-and-Wooden-Leg  and his nameless crew.

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Creating named characters and a storyline within Pirates wouldn't be anything new. I might be wrong on this but as far as I'm aware the original theme of Pirates from 1989 was the first time Lego had included actual named minifigs, Captain Roger Redbeard, Governor Broadside Bo'Sun Will etc... They even released a storybook along with the first wave of sets to accompany the series. I have still got a copy of this somewhere in storage in my parents attic.

6255-1.jpg

Lego Pirates was certainly ground breaking when it was first launched. I can still remember how exited I felt seeing the new minifigs for the first time with their detailed face prints, wooden legs and hook hands. Also who remembers the old style packaging with the hinged flaps on the front which could be lifted to reveal all the unique pieces included in the set?

Anyway... I'm reminiscing too much, but they certainly were the good old days.

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On 2/2/2018 at 9:45 AM, Bricked1980 said:

I agree. I wouldn't mind fantasy elements like sea monsters, mermaids or Pirates of the Caribbean style zombie ghost pirates. My biggest fear is that Lego Pirates would get the Nexo Knights treatment and suddenly we'd get Flying Pirate ships with Lazer guns etc.

That's a fear we share. But a little fantasy twist would be cool, and fresh for the Pirates theme. I'd welcome that.

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