David Thomsen

Future Pirates Speculation

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I feel like it's unlikely that the Islanders will be in the first year of a new series of Pirate, it'll always be Pirates versus Soldiers in the first year, and then maybe Islanders or Conquistadors introduces in the second or third year. And for the last decade we haven't got past the first year of Pirates :pir-sceptic:

I also wonder if 'Islanders' isn't seen as a little un-politically correct by now. In the 90s I didn't question it, but every time I talk about 'Islanders' now I'm aware I have some friends who would throw me some serious side-eye if they knew about it... having the one-off CMF in 2013 is one thing, having a full Islander theme is another.

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Has everyone seen the new highwayman from theminifigure series? I think this is perfect example of the next pirate line...what I mean by that is the cloak piece along with the bandana. I would be happy to see these in future pirate sets!

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On 4/8/2017 at 8:26 PM, David Thomsen said:

I feel like it's unlikely that the Islanders will be in the first year of a new series of Pirate, it'll always be Pirates versus Soldiers in the first year, and then maybe Islanders or Conquistadors introduces in the second or third year. And for the last decade we haven't got past the first year of Pirates :pir-sceptic:

I also wonder if 'Islanders' isn't seen as a little un-politically correct by now. In the 90s I didn't question it, but every time I talk about 'Islanders' now I'm aware I have some friends who would throw me some serious side-eye if they knew about it... having the one-off CMF in 2013 is one thing, having a full Islander theme is another.

Agreed. Sets and themes dealing with Pacific island cultures are clearly still OK (just look at the Moana sets in the Disney theme), but these cultures' interaction with European cultures would be hard to treat delicately and respectably in the context of a toyline. These clashes of cultures in real life generally ranged from exploitative to genocidal, and many of these indigenous cultures that survive today are still dealing with the consequences. The realities of this period of history would be decidedly unwholesome as a subject for a play experience, and trying to sanitize them would constitute revisionist history and erasure.

I loved the Islanders sets as a kid (I dressed up as King Kahuka for Halloween when I was 3 or 4), but the reality is that they were probably not especially respectful to the sorts of cultures they were depicting. After all, even the early days of the Bionicle theme (another favorite of mine) took heat for appropriating Polynesian cultures, and that theme wasn't even depicting real people or history, just sci-fi characters with names and societies inspired by Polynesian cultures. Would a more respectful approach to an Islanders faction be possible? Maybe! But it'd have to be treated with the appropriate care, not just mashing up cultures indiscriminately and using the result as a backdrop for European shenanigans. I think there are probably better ways to introduce diversity (of both cultures and subject matter) to the Pirates theme, maybe by adding some Asian pirates and pirate vessels.

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I think that the obvious thing should be to have merchants. It is the very thing that the original themes lacked. This would limit the need for Islanders, so that when they are used, they can be done appropriately. It might also be better to refer to them as Native Peoples.

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On 8/4/2017 at 6:26 PM, David Thomsen said:

I feel like it's unlikely that the Islanders will be in the first year of a new series of Pirate, it'll always be Pirates versus Soldiers in the first year, and then maybe Islanders or Conquistadors introduces in the second or third year. And for the last decade we haven't got past the first year of Pirates :pir-sceptic:

I also wonder if 'Islanders' isn't seen as a little un-politically correct by now. In the 90s I didn't question it, but every time I talk about 'Islanders' now I'm aware I have some friends who would throw me some serious side-eye if they knew about it... having the one-off CMF in 2013 is one thing, having a full Islander theme is another.

There could be more islanders in the CMF theme

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On 4/9/2017 at 3:48 PM, azog said:

Has everyone seen the new highwayman from theminifigure series? I think this is perfect example of the next pirate line...what I mean by that is the cloak piece along with the bandana. I would be happy to see these in future pirate sets!

I'm excited about the new coat-and-ruff torso--finally I can build that Captain Hook from Fox's Peter Pan and the Pirates that I've always wanted! :laugh:

TC

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Personally I think that the 30 year anniversary should include all the past factions, armada, bluecoats, redcoats, islanders, and pirates all racing for some sort of treasure. But that may be a bit unrealistic. 

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28 minutes ago, The_Ceaser said:

Personally I think that the 30 year anniversary should include all the past factions, armada, bluecoats, redcoats, islanders, and pirates all racing for some sort of treasure. But that may be a bit unrealistic. 

I see what your getting at here...I see why lego couldn't do this, but lego has never done more than two different ships in a wave...I can't imagine them making four main ships and some canoes for the islanders. It's just way to much to have for one and even two waves. 

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I think that LEGO could successfully do Islanders.  It's all fiction.

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The last two lines of pirates really suffered from missing conflict . But the nice thing about the Pirate-trope is, that it contains an intrinsic conflict: Order versus Freedom

Unlike in Castle or Space it does not need a good and bad faction. Both factions can be good and bad. I think Lego should keep that in mind when making a pirate line in the future. Both soldiers and pirates should have interesting characters and should be about equal in forces.

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True. We're not going to be getting good pirates sets for a few years, in the gap between Pirates of the Caribbean films, similar to LotR and Fantasy, or Star Wars and Space. I imagine they're going to be using Dead Men Tell No Tales and all of these sets to build up a new fanbase for Pirates, and gauge interest in it for after the film's popularity dies down after a few set waves. 

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We have plenty of ships and of course every pirates wave will come with at least one ship, but to me the Imperial Flagship is more or less perfect :wub:  So I hope that if we get a big D2C set it will be something like a fortified town, preferably a big set where it is easy to buy a second set and build it in reverse or similar to make the set twice as big :grin:

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I wouldn't mind some soldiers with white uniforms. The troops with white uniforms and tricorns would look like the Kingdom of France's 18th century uniforms and white uniforms with shakos would be like Austrian uniforms. Along with that I would love some grenadiers with bearskins. Though all this is just coming from a history fan's point of view. 

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21 hours ago, Roebuck said:

We have plenty of ships and of course every pirates wave will come with at least one ship, but to me the Imperial Flagship is more or less perfect :wub:  So I hope that if we get a big D2C set it will be something like a fortified town, preferably a big set where it is easy to buy a second set and build it in reverse or similar to make the set twice as big :grin:

I always kept thinking about how awesome a port would be! I can imagine lego creating the perfect 30th anniversary set by having buildings around the town that memorialize past pirate waves, for example a house for the admiral of the Caribbean Clipper, a mansion for Governor Broadside, and a troops arsenal. Of course this would be for the bluecoats because they were the original imperials that lego made. And the set could throw in a remake of the BSB, that would be updated to have a full captains cabin and a gun deck. Of course this is just fantasy but the set would be around $350. :wub:     

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Could the Creator Expert theme be viable for pirates? I can not see smaller Creator pirates sets being done, something fitting the 3 in 1 build concept as opposed to play sets, which most smaller non ship pirate sets happen to be.

Since 2013, Advanced Model sets have been branded under the Creator theme, and the one roadblock I can see for Expert series pirate ships is Creator's avoidance of large, prefabricated parts such as boat hull pieces. Perhaps Lego would build boat hulls under Expert from scratch, using advanced techniques?

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I don't know if anyone here has seen the catalog leaks from a week or so ago, but I think Pirates fans might find the new Lego Ninjago Movie version of the Destiny's Bounty interesting. As someone who knows very little about actual ship architecture or structure I can't speak to how realistic or traditional it might be, but I can say that it seems to lack any of the sorts of steampunk or sci-fi trappings of past iterations of the ship. The catalog lists it as 169.99 €, though not knowing the provenance of these leaks I can't really be sure which countries that applies to. Either way, it's a very big, very impressive ship that I thought might interest you all even if it isn't technically "Pirates".

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3 hours ago, Lyichir said:

I don't know if anyone here has seen the catalog leaks from a week or so ago, but I think Pirates fans might find the new Lego Ninjago Movie version of the Destiny's Bounty interesting. As someone who knows very little about actual ship architecture or structure I can't speak to how realistic or traditional it might be, but I can say that it seems to lack any of the sorts of steampunk or sci-fi trappings of past iterations of the ship. The catalog lists it as 169.99 €, though not knowing the provenance of these leaks I can't really be sure which countries that applies to. Either way, it's a very big, very impressive ship that I thought might interest you all even if it isn't technically "Pirates".

Yeah I saw it recently I'm probably going to get it mainly because of the nice sails and design. :pir-classic:

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On 08/05/2017 at 3:26 PM, Digger of Bricks said:

Could the Creator Expert theme be viable for pirates? I can not see smaller Creator pirates sets being done, something fitting the 3 in 1 build concept as opposed to play sets, which most smaller non ship pirate sets happen to be.

Since 2013, Advanced Model sets have been branded under the Creator theme, and the one roadblock I can see for Expert series pirate ships is Creator's avoidance of large, prefabricated parts such as boat hull pieces. Perhaps Lego would build boat hulls under Expert from scratch, using advanced techniques?

I wouldn't discount them doing one of the smaller Creator sets, they've been trying new things with the theme lately. They used to only do houses, recently they've done a few other things like the sea plane and the camper van, and now they're doing a space shuttle. It wouldn't surprise me if their next experimental is in non-City themed sets, like Space and Pirates. And the camper van had a fabric awning, so it's possible that they might have a sail or two in a Creator set.

Just randomly speculating, a set could have this combination of builds:

  • A one-sail, brick-built-hull ship with a small island
  • A shipwreck
  • A small harbour building, with the pillars of the dock made out of the sloped hull pieces, turned around so that the sloped sides are hidden underneath the dock. The sail could become some kind of awning

Regarding an Expert Themed ship, there's the Imperial Flagship which I think was an 'Advanced Model' rather than a Pirate set. And I think the Advanced Models got rebranded as Creator Expert? But I doubt they'd do something like that again if it's not paired with an actual Pirate theme, the way the IF was.

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On 5/9/2017 at 1:40 PM, David Thomsen said:

But I doubt they'd do something like that again if it's not paired with an actual Pirate theme, the way the IF was.

Exactly that. On the other hand, the Silent Mary was a standalone theme/set, but that's because it is licensed and coupled with the current movie I believe.

Technically a pirate lover can benefit from various ongoing themes (ninjago, creator, Moana, even city) but you either need a big wallet or you need to sell all the vehicles etc from each set and keep the pieces of...piratical interest.

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On 5/8/2017 at 4:13 PM, Lyichir said:

I don't know if anyone here has seen the catalog leaks from a week or so ago, but I think Pirates fans might find the new Lego Ninjago Movie version of the Destiny's Bounty interesting. As someone who knows very little about actual ship architecture or structure I can't speak to how realistic or traditional it might be, but I can say that it seems to lack any of the sorts of steampunk or sci-fi trappings of past iterations of the ship. The catalog lists it as 169.99 €, though not knowing the provenance of these leaks I can't really be sure which countries that applies to. Either way, it's a very big, very impressive ship that I thought might interest you all even if it isn't technically "Pirates".

Based on trailers and images we have seen so far, many of the ninja vehicles have been scaled down as sets, so maybe the same goes for this ship. Nonetheless, it is a most impressive set!

From what I can tell, the hull of the ship looks brick built, lacking any large premolded hull pieces. So maybe my speculation on this thread regarding Creator Expert pirate ships could be plausible, if Lego will be creating more ships with scratch built hulls.

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5 hours ago, Digger of Bricks said:

Based on trailers and images we have seen so far, many of the ninja vehicles have been scaled down as sets, so maybe the same goes for this ship. Nonetheless, it is a most impressive set!

From what I can tell, the hull of the ship looks brick built, lacking any large premolded hull pieces. So maybe my speculation on this thread regarding Creator Expert pirate ships could be plausible, if Lego will be creating more ships with scratch built hulls.

 

The Ninjago ship has a dark brown hull again. I hope that means they become available again...

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Digger of Bricks said:

Based on trailers and images we have seen so far, many of the ninja vehicles have been scaled down as sets, so maybe the same goes for this ship. Nonetheless, it is a most impressive set!

From what I can tell, the hull of the ship looks brick built, lacking any large premolded hull pieces. So maybe my speculation on this thread regarding Creator Expert pirate ships could be plausible, if Lego will be creating more ships with scratch built hulls.

There have been some catalog leaks with preliminary pics which show what the actual set will presumably look like. The set version does in fact use hull elements for the front, but not exactly in the most conventional way. I hope that official, finalized pictures become available soon, not just so that people can more easily see it but also so that I can get a better look at more of this set's details, like what sort of interior it has to offer!

It occurred to me recently that this discussion might have been better suited for the "Useful Pirates Pieces in Other Themes" topic... ah well. Hindsight is 20/20.

Edited by Lyichir

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Count me in as the one who thinks we will have some new pirate sets when the 30th anniversary is here.

What I would really like to see is a smaller ship with completely new narrow hull pieces, similar to the old Imperial Flagship or Armada Flagship...

I don't really care who the pirates' opponents will be this time, as long as they have some decent sets, and a ship! It could be the Armada this time, why not - those guys only got 2 sets in the 1990s, they need more!

On a side note, this new leaked Ninjago ship looks pretty decent and I will probably get it to modify it slightly and use with a new faction of Asian pirates! Ching Shih comes to mind...

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I would love to see some armada troops again! And a dream come true would be a ship and a fort for them! I would also not mind to see some bluecoats again especially because I feel they got ripped off in 2015 with only having two sets belong to them and of those being very weak and small. 

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