Future LEGO Pirates Set Speculation

[Jack Sassy]

5 hours ago, Mister Phes said:

Could you please specify the sources which state what the LEGO Group will no longer be produced because the LEGO Group deems them too offensive?

It's not official documents that we can find with Lego stating so but it's a problem that seems to be around for a good 30 years or so for now. In the case of Native Americans, people really don't like the fact that tribes represented in toy form are very stereotypical. I found one specific document that might indicate it further:

Now, I don't live in the US, therefore don't know all the big tory marketing companies and so on, however it's a thing that I've been hearing about for at least 10 years. It's the same as Disney not allowing Lego to use ''Slave I'' as the name for Boba Fett's spaceship (in fact, Disney themselves seem to have changed the name officially) and also the rumoured fact that they won't allow Lego to make any minifigures or vehicles for Indy 5 sets (if they happen) that might resemble Nazis. With people being a lot easier offendable nowadays than in, say 1996, it is understandable move for Lego not to make any Inquisition or Native sets (they only make them in CMF form, though).

 

So there is (more or less ) official proof that toy companies won't be making anything that could be labeled as offensive. Once again, I might be wrong, could be that Lego will make Native villages but that seems unlikely (it only seems, we have some weak proof of them not doing that and rumours from all of us).

 

I'm quite sensitive when it comes to Soviet stuff (same as people in Central Europe are sensitive about Nazis) so the fact that Soviet symbols (whatever they were called) are allowed while swastika isn't is so wrong, I'm not saying either of them should be allowed but at least in my country, swastika symbol actually is a traditional symbol called firecross (you can read a bit more here: https://latvians.com/index.php?en/CFBH/Zimes/zimes-10-rhetoric.ssi). So it's also weird for me to see the red star (in this case it's pearl gold) on the buckle of rather accurate Soviet uniforms and CCCP texts as stickers on vehicles in Indiana Jones sets from 2008-2009 (meanwhile Nazis had casual desert uniforms, yes, there were some vehicles in Lego, but I don't think they were much real outside the films).

 

(That was way off-topic, just wanted to bring it up somewhere.)  

[Jiesdeo]

On 9/3/2021 at 8:02 AM, Roebuck said:

Ships, ships, ships!

I have plenty of ships, would much rather have a fort or a fortified town, with soldiers and civilians

Yes, there has been a serious lack of civilians in Pirates sets. The only ones I can remember were in the Imperial Trading Post (not counting a couple of Governor's daughters).

[Mister Phes]

1 hour ago, Jack Sassy said:

(That was way off-topic, just wanted to bring it up somewhere.)  

This is not off-topic because you're raising valid points to help us understand your concerns.

And these are points we may need consider for our future speculation.

1 hour ago, Jack Sassy said:

Now, I don't live in the US, therefore don't know all the big tory marketing companies and so on, however it's a thing that I've been hearing about for at least 10 years.

Ok, so that's in reference to Native Americans which is more applicable to the Western Theme.

Quote

With people being a lot easier offendable nowadays than in, say 1996, it is understandable move for Lego not to make any Inquisition or Native sets (they only make them in CMF form, though).

So why is it appropriate to make minifigures and not sets? The minifigures are more representative of actual people than buildings or vehicles which are rarely historically accurate.

1 hour ago, Jack Sassy said:

It's the same as Disney not allowing Lego to use ''Slave I'' as the name for Boba Fett's spaceship (in fact, Disney themselves seem to have changed the name officially)

Yes, in this instance the name has been officially changed by Lucas Film and has been made public.  So that can be confirmed as a substantiated as fact.

1 hour ago, Jack Sassy said:

Also the rumoured fact that they won't allow Lego to make any minifigures or vehicles for Indy 5 sets (if they happen) that might resemble Nazis.

There is no such thing as a rumoured fact. I understand English may not be your first language but you've just contradicted yourself.

A rumour is unsubstantiated information due to a lack of verifiable evidence to support it. Quite often rumours are highly inaccurate and sometimes deliberately based on misinformation.

A fact is information which can be substantiated by an official source or multiple verifiable sources.

1 hour ago, Jack Sassy said:

So there is (more or less ) official proof that toy companies won't be making anything that could be labeled as offensive.

Nothing is official until the LEGO Group makes an announcement and at this point they have not indicated they will not produce sets based on the Imperial Armada or natives.

Nonetheless, third-party vendors are capitalising on the LEGO Group's failure to cater to the market and are stealing the best MOC designs to sell for themself.
Example #1 & Example #2

And there's no big uproar about this aside from the builder's whose designs have been stolen.

 

1 hour ago, Jiesdeo said:

Yes, there has been a serious lack of civilians in Pirates sets. The only ones I can remember were in the Imperial Trading Post (not counting a couple of Governor's daughters).

Aye, notice how the ship in the Imperial Trading Post had it's own unique insignia on the sail?

That begs the questions: where did it originate from? Are there more ships which sail under this same insignia? Is there an entire LEGO Pirates sub-theme we don't know about?

Questions which we need to answer in due time...

[Jack Sassy]

4 hours ago, Mister Phes said:

So why is it appropriate to make minifigures and not sets? The minifigures are more representative of actual people than buildings or vehicles which are rarely historically accurate.

I would like to ask Lego the same thing, it doesn't make much sense.

4 hours ago, Mister Phes said:

There is no such thing as a rumoured fact. I understand English may not be your first language but you've just contradicted yourself.

A rumour is unsubstantiated information due to a lack of verifiable evidence to support it. Quite often rumours are highly inaccurate and sometimes deliberately based on misinformation.

A fact is information which can be substantiated by an official source or multiple verifiable sources.

Right! Forgive my mistake, that was quite the investigation so there might have been few mistakes I didn't notice.

4 hours ago, Mister Phes said:

Nothing is official until the LEGO Group makes an announcement and at this point they have not indicated they will not produce sets based on the Imperial Armada or natives.

Nonetheless, third-party vendors are capitalising on the LEGO Group's failure to cater to the market and are stealing the best MOC designs to sell for themself.
Example #1 & Example #2

And there's no big uproar about this aside from the builder's whose designs have been stolen.

You know, this leads to a further problem - the way Lego pleases its fans nowadays. Sure, there might be a bigger connection between the company and the fans now (or the illusion of it) but given all that, they still tend to ignore such things as reboots of classic themes. Also, the pricing and sets for few themes have been getting on my nerves in the latest. Makes me rather displeased with the company (then again, I have been a fan for long enough, might as well continue to sort of support).

[Mister Phes]

9 minutes ago, Jack Sassy said:

I would like to ask Lego the same thing, it doesn't make much sense.

But isn't that just your assumption?

The LEGO Group has not announced they'll only produce Armada and native minifigs but not sets.

[Jack Sassy]

1 minute ago, Mister Phes said:

But isn't that just your assumption?

The LEGO Group has not announced they'll only produce Armada and native minifigs but not sets.

Aye, I assumed the reason they wouldn't make them is because some might find these sets offensive. But even ignoring that, where are these sets? We saw redcoats, bluecoats, even islanders (sort of) but no Armada. Where are they? There's only one real reason why they wouldn't return them, so making only few CMFs makes even less sense. Maybe, just maybe they are working on some big Pirates reboot. but when will that be out, in 100 years?

 

I am desperate for a new theme but it's been 6 years now, there are no news or even a single hint about a new one. Also, returning back to the starting point, aren't there some rules that all toy companies have to keep? Regardless of all, there's one real assumption we can make.

[Mister Phes]

11 hours ago, Jack Sassy said:

But even ignoring that, where are these sets? We saw redcoats, bluecoats, even islanders (sort of) but no Armada. Where are they?

There haven't been any new Islander sets released as part of the Pirate theme since 1995... any depictions of natives released since, have been released under other themes.

As for the Imperial Armada...

1. Only two Imperial Armada sets were released at the tail end of the Pirate themes so they didn't get the opportunity to become as popular as the Soldiers and Imperial Guards. LEGO in general was somewhat in decline at that time.
2. There have only been 2 waves of new Pirate sets released since the Pirate theme ended in 1997. And it would be a safer choice to use the more popular Soldiers and Imperial Guards as antagonists, rather than the more obscure Imperial Armada..

11 hours ago, Jack Sassy said:

Also, returning back to the starting point, aren't there some rules that all toy companies have to keep?

What kind of rules are you referring to?

[Jack Sassy]

7 hours ago, Mister Phes said:

• Only two Imperial Armada sets were released at the tail end of the Pirate themes so they didn't get the opportunity to become as popular as the Soldiers and Imperial Guards. LEGO in general was somewhat in decline at that time.
• There have only been 2 waves of new Pirate sets released since the Pirate theme ended in 1997. And it would be a safer choice to use the more popular Soldiers and Imperial Guards as antagonists, rather than the more obscure Imperial Armada..

Would really love to see a theme where all factions are fighting each other, it wouldn't be bad.

7 hours ago, Mister Phes said:

What kind of rules are you referring to?

Well, as I said, I'm not an expert in these things. I'm only guessing that there probably are casual laws about violent toys an copyrights. It could be that some company says its ultimatum to toy companies that are affiliated with it.

 

(My original mistake in this discussion was saying at one point that Lego actually has a proven reason why to not make any Western or Armada sets. I'm only guessing logical reason for not making these sets.)

[Mister Phes]

1 hour ago, Jack Sassy said:

Well, as I said, I'm not an expert in these things. I'm only guessing

So is it possibility this guess is inaccurate and there may be completely different reasons?

[Jack Sassy]

1 hour ago, Mister Phes said:

So is it possibility this guess is inaccurate and there may be completely different reasons?

Perhaps, unless one of us works at TLG, we won't know the real reason for some time.

[Mister Phes]

11 hours ago, Jack Sassy said:

Perhaps, unless one of us works at TLG, we won't know the real reason for some time. 

Yes, that is correct. Until the LEGO Group makes an announcement or someone extracts information from one of their representatives, we won't know for certain.

However, we also shouldn't make assumptions and then act like they're the reason, because the reason could be entirely different.

[Jack Sassy]

10 hours ago, Mister Phes said:

However, we also shouldn't make assumptions and then act like they're the reason, because the reason could be entirely different

Aye, like I said earlier, it was my mistake to say at one point that Lego actually has a proven reason. Sorry about this train of unproven reason posts.

[Mister Phes]

55 minutes ago, Jack Sassy said:

Aye, like I said earlier, it was my mistake to say at one point that Lego actually has a proven reason. Sorry about this train of unproven reason posts.

There is no need to be sorry! Having a civil conversation is a good thing as it allows us to explore possibilities.

And there is also that possibility you are 100% correct.

[Jack Sassy]

26 minutes ago, Mister Phes said:

There is no need to be sorry! Having a civil conversation is a good thing as it allows us to explore possibilities.

Well, my points had no actual backing and for some reason I started pretending that there is one. But I suppose it doesn't hurt to dream of a new wave.

[Mister Phes]

13 hours ago, Jack Sassy said:

Well, my points had no actual backing and for some reason I started pretending that there is one.

The scary thing is most people do this...  and not just for future LEGO Pirate releases, but for every aspect of life.

 

[Jack Sassy]

1 hour ago, Mister Phes said:

The scary thing is most people do this...  and not just for future LEGO Pirate releases, but for every aspect of life.

Well, talking Lego Pirates is something we all do for fun, but life is far more serious, one must be careful with what they say. Speaking of which, do you have proof that most people do this in every aspect of their lives? 

 

I'm only joking at this point, so far I've survived as I am. This was actually the first time when I had no backing in an argument. 

[Mister Phes]

1 minute ago, Jack Sassy said:

Speaking of which, do you have proof that most people do this in every aspect of their lives?  I'm only joking at this point,

Even so, how much time do you have? Many hours could be spent pointing out examples from the past 15 months. Shall we start with those who assumed there was a need to hoard toilet paper?

But the even scarier part is, the less scrupulous in positions of power understand people turn assumptions into beliefs, and use this to control their actions.

[Jack Sassy]

1 minute ago, Mister Phes said:

But the even scarier part is, the less scrupulous in positions of power understand people turn assumptions into beliefs, and use this to control their actions.

Trust me, I've seen quite a lot of it in here in Latvia in the latest (it's like someone is trying to start a Civil war), how did we venture to such discussion? 

[Mister Phes]

3 minutes ago, Jack Sassy said:

Trust me, I've seen quite a lot of it in here in Latvia in the latest (it's like someone is trying to start a Civil war), how did we venture to such discussion? 

Someone put an idea into your head about Armada sets being offensive and I was walking you through how to identify such thoughts and free yourself from them.

[Jack Sassy]

8 hours ago, Mister Phes said:

Someone put an idea into your head about Armada sets being offensive and I was walking you through how to identify such thoughts and free yourself from them.

I sometimes get lost in me own philosophy. Going a bit off-topic, what happened to this topic's original creator @David Thomsen?

 

He's a banned outlaw because he said something in the Star Wars rumours topic, I'm not sure I get the full context (possibly there was a picture) but would a member get banned after one picture? Perhaps ye, Sire, might know more (or someone else).

[Mister Phes]

21 minutes ago, Jack Sassy said:

Perhaps ye, Sire, might know more (or someone else).

I was wondering the same thing myself... whatever transpired took place during my absence a few years ago so I cannot provide further information.

But getting back on topic, we have another pirate-themed LEGO Ideas submission achieve review - not Armada mind you, but dare I say, Imperial?

[Jack Sassy]

5 minutes ago, Mister Phes said:

we have another pirate-themed LEGO Ideas submission achieve review - not Armada mind you, but dare I say, Imperial?

At last, finally a pirate-themed submission that gets to the review phase instead of getting removed. Having high hopes for this one. If not as a Lego Ideas set, then at least as part of the next Pirates wave.

[Mister Phes]

5 minutes ago, Jack Sassy said:

If not as a Lego Ideas set, then at least as part of the next Pirates wave.

We are due for a new wave of Pirate sets round about now.

[Jack Sassy]

Just now, Mister Phes said:

We are due for a new wave of Pirate sets round about now.

I'm not going to go there but what I expect most out of it is......

 

 

 

 

...a pirate pub.

[Mister Phes]

1 minute ago, Jack Sassy said:

...a pirate pub.