SHIP recreation - EAS Agamemnon from Babylon 5

[Captain_Quinn]

I think I've solved the 1/2 stud gap issue, but had to take some creative license with the transition between rotator guide rings and the hull for the non-rotating sections. Technically, the gap is still there, it's just covered by some additional greebling on the rotator guide ring.

 

ok, now I have a dilemma... Do I clean up and publish the design file before brick-building the rest, or do I wait and build the remainder to see if there are any errors, conflicts or tweaks/improvements that can be made? Part of me wants to design a set of instructions for this (partly because I think they could be awesome, and also to teach myself how to use Scribus, an opensource DTP package).

 

[manglegrat]

Nothing wrong with a bit of creative license! It's all creative license... 

I'd recommend completing the build in the brick before doing the instructions - you'll probably find some things you want or need to change while you're putting it together. Either way, I hope you enjoy the next steps! I've certainly enjoyed following along. 

[thet1nman]

I have always thought that Babylon 5 was the best Sci-Fi TV show ever made. They had some fantastic ship designs and this version of the Agamemnon is just stunning. 

They could have used this Lego model in the TV show.

 

[Captain_Quinn]

@manglegrat, quick question about the forward sections armour. Are there any weight issues with the lower sections pulling on the hinges? The lower section isn't connected anywhere else, so I'm considering redesigning that armour plate and how it attaches to the forward section so that the lower section attaches at both the hinge point and along the inner face of the plating.

[manglegrat]

On 11/27/2017 at 10:40 PM, Captain_Quinn said:

@manglegrat, quick question about the forward sections armour. Are there any weight issues with the lower sections pulling on the hinges? The lower section isn't connected anywhere else, so I'm considering redesigning that armour plate and how it attaches to the forward section so that the lower section attaches at both the hinge point and along the inner face of the plating.

Nope, no issues with grabbity there at all. It's a fairly shallow angle off the vertical, and the 5 hinges on each side (assuming they're not crappy old loose ones - mine were new from BrickLink) have enough strength to hold the angle nice and tight to the main internal frame of the chin.

Mine has been sitting untouched (and undusted! ) since being built all those months ago and they are still in the original position. 

[Rolsen]

Hi guys!  So cool to see so much interest in my original design.  Quinn, your re-designs are looking super good, and actually a lot more structurally sound than my original.  :)  I'm actually planning to revisit my MOC soon in an effort to motorize it, but I think its going to take some fairly fundamental re-designs of some of the internal structure to make it happen.  The power function motors have already been bought and are sitting on my desk though!

Cheers guys!

Ryan

[Captain_Quinn]

Hi Ryan, thanks for joining the party... and for the feedback on the mods to the design. 

One of the objectives I had for my redesign was to see if adding power functions motors was viable, or if an extensive rework was necessary. So far, I've had 2 ideas on how this might work.

First was to mount a power functions motor directly to the rear section frame, with a direct drive to the aft turntable of the rotating sections outer cage. For this to work, there would need to be sufficient clearance between the turntable gear and the panelling around the centre section. At best, this would require redesigning the centre section to either raise all of the panels in order to clear the gears, or a section 2 studs wide at the rear of the centre section adjacent to the guide ring.

The second was to reverse way I've placed the turntable gears, and then slightly extend the centre section, to have gears extend into the area covered by the guide rings. This would require a redesign of the guide rings to provide clearance, but less than what directly gearing the current config would. It also affords the option of a chain driven arrangement that, if needed, could also employ multiple gear options to step down appropriately.

In each of these there's a best and worst case scenario; best being a small modification of this design, and worst being that the proportions are completely distorted requiring either a change in scale or a from-scratch redesign with power functions from the get go.

This is before considering the issues of weight, balance, wires and whether or not there is a wireless control option available that fits suitably. If the PF motor and battery boxes are small enough, and a wireless option is available, then another option is mounting them on the rotating cage either side of where the habitat decks attach. This could potentially introduce balance and harmonic issues if not done right. Mounting the motor inside the 6x8 Technic Brick with Open Centre (40345) in the centre outer cage is an option that would enable the most direct driving of the turntable, but space is likely going to prevent this.

One idea I've been toying with is to remove the technic turntables altogether, and replace them with a built 'bearing' structure that would use round bricks, cylinder pieces and small rubber wheels, along with shock absorbers and other technic pieces, to construct a floating assembly. This would have the advantage of both being scalable and having less friction, but potentially at the cost of precision. Done right, it could still use the direct drive or chain drive ideas I mentioned, but would require some creativity in attaching the gears. My instinct tells me that a chain drive option would be better suited to this.

[manglegrat]

7 hours ago, Rolsen said:

Hi guys!  So cool to see so much interest in my original design. 

Hi Ryan - great to see you here on EB! Welcome to the funny-farm. 

I'll be interested to see you guys' efforts on adding motorization... Sounds like quite the challenge! 

[Captain_Quinn]

2 minutes ago, manglegrat said:

I'll be interested to see you guys' efforts on adding motorization... Sounds like quite the challenge! 

Ain't that the truth! Like many things in Lego, there will be a trade off between scale, detail, function and stability. 

[Captain_Quinn]

Well... a marathon 16hr session later, and the steps are sorted for instructions, with a few parts selection changes and a couple of design changes for stability and buildability. 

I'm torn between having non-visible pieces as a single hi-contrast colour with a note included saying that those pieces can be any colour, or selecting colours based on suitable build friendly appearance in the instructions. The first makes it easier to focus on the visible parts when buying, but the second option looks better and is easier for overall purchase.

Any thoughts/advice?

 

[manglegrat]

Depends how much you love the idea of colourbarf... Or how much more time you want to spend on being artistic! 

With the Galactica I'm working on now, because it's all done in LDD extended mode I'm just leaving internal parts the default red colour except technic pins, which are coloured as I'd actually use them or in their most available colour: black, blue, etc.

I've seen other folks do the red thing as well... But hey, as long as it's easy enough to see seams and placement on the instructions, I'd say just pick your favourite colour and go nuts! 

[Rolsen]

I agree, picking an obvious "off" color for the internal parts is a great idea, and will probably end up saving people some bricklink costs.  Good stuff!

[Captain_Quinn]

Colour selected, sub-builds renamed in Stud.io so that they appear in colour when using the fade option in LPub3D. I've been able to shrink 900 pages down to just under 600 (and still have plenty remaining) but the problem now is one of model size and LPub3D's inability to focus on a particular area means that as I progress through the remaining steps, showing appropriate detail is difficult or not even possible.

I'd love to be able to pan & scan or select an area to focus the camera on in LPub3D, if anyone has tips on doing that.

The other idea I had was to collate the necessary sub-assemblies for each section into their own files and generate suitable step images from those.

Edited December 7, 2017 by Captain_Quinn

[manglegrat]

There are some awesomely helpful experts on the "Lego Digital Designer and other Digital Tools" forum that should hopefully be able to help. I got some great advice there when I was building the Agamemnon and trying to render it, when I had to switch over to LDraw from LDD to get the side panels to connect (which I later learned you can do in LDD Developer mode). I haven't ever tried to use LPub though... kinda scared to! 

(PS - google image link broken again )

[Captain_Quinn]

Google hosted image should be visible now.

900 pages of raw LPub rendering down to just under 300... with an A4 page of errors and improvements to be made to both instructions and design. I have a workaround for the pan-and-scan/zoom-focus issue, it will just take a little more effort with a few more intermittent steps to produce those steps. The challenge now is creating an overall style theme based on B5 Earthforce terminal interfaces.

 

[Captain_Quinn]

With the dust settled on exams and some spare time finally at my disposal, I began the search through my spare parts and stocks... 80% of the build available in the correct part type and colours, with another 15% in alternate colours or size combinations. Off to a pick a brick sale tomorrow to grab as much of the remaining parts as possible.

What this does mean is that I can start checking the build/instructions... and already, the stand, internal frame and central rotating plating is assembled.

This process has actually given me another idea for the rotating section. I'm contemplating using a small wheel/tyre on the edge of the rotating section deck as a 'bearing' of sorts. I'll do a test build of that before I post anything further.

[manglegrat]

Cool! That's a great initial hit-rate for parts... 

With the rotating section, is your idea with the wheel to try to make it rotate? I'm very interested in how that might turn out!

Edited December 19, 2017 by manglegrat

[Captain_Quinn]

The idea with the wheel/tyre is to combine with an inverted plate with pin on bottom (part id 2476)... The same wheel that is used for the forward guns... with it's tyre it just sticks out enough to make contact with the the guide rings and reduce the contact friction between that and the rotating section. I figure the rubber in the tyre will take the compression between the sections. That way the technic turntables are still taking the rotation load, but the wheels roll on the guide rings to reduce the friction.

It's just an idea at this stage. Not entirely sure if it's viable, and if it is, whether it will work the way it's intended.

 

[manglegrat]

Ah, right! Gotcha. 

[Captain_Quinn]

Although, you've given me an idea on how I might be able to do an indirect drive on the rotating section. Just need to see about positioning and structure on the centre section

[Captain_Quinn]

Over the summer I've been working on the instructions for this build, beginning with a functional prototype (usually, just colours are different, sometimes it's an aesthetic change, but always functionally equivalent), and finishing with a list of changes, build notes, errors and improvements. Along with that has been one very important lesson; don't over-engineer your design... sometimes, the simplest solution is the most effective. I had originally designed a set of locking pins to secure the rotating sections habitat decks, but as it turns out, clutch power was more than sufficient.

What it's also spawned is a set of ideas on changes that will go into the next generation of this design, along with a few design ideas that have potential for future MOCs.

But for now, there's a 4kg, 4700 piece, 1mtr long Lego Omega Class Destroyer sitting on my coffee table, along with the epic task of generating instructions whilst resisting the temptation to further tweak the design. Putting the instructions together will be a part time task as studies permit (I'm about to start my final year of studies where I'll be in clinical immersions 9-5, Mon-Fri, and swamped with a cruel and unusual amount of portfolio work after hours).

Our local AFOL group is planning an exhibit in April, and I'm hoping to have a brick built version ready to display.

[manglegrat]

Cool! Hope it hasn't been scorching where you are, like the recent 47c in Sydney! Stay cool, dude.

On the flipside, I walked to & from work (45min each way) in -35c with windchill last week, but with good preparations (lots of layers), it was all good. Most cities in Canada were colder than Mars between Christmas & New Year...

My version (for all its imperfections) is probably over-engineered there, too. It'd be an interesting exercise to see what a Lego professional would change to right-size and optimize the overall design according to TLC build/production rules. I'm definitely not a pro! 

If you get it finished in time for the April exhibit, will you share the build/final pics (or prototypes of your design ideas) so we can celebrate it with you? 

Good luck with your studies - so glad I graduated with my Bachelor's degree 23 years ago, but I went back 15 years ago for 2 years of an MBA (d'oh). I still get flashbacks & dreams about being unprepared for exams, etc... Now it's just professional qualifications I need to keep current, so it never really ends! 

Edited January 17, 2018 by manglegrat

[Captain_Quinn]

oh mate... the heat has been merciless. More than a few days spent indoors with the aircon on and the Lego spread out. We've been giving our dogs ice cubes to help them stay hydrated and keep their temperature down. I'm not sure what's worse... extreme heat or extreme cold... although, I always thought it was easier to warm up by throwing on another layer. After all... there's only so many items of clothing you can remove before someone complains, or calls the cops

I was concerned that the weight of each side of the habitat section was going to result in detaching from the rotating centre, so I designed a set of internal clips that connect the frames of each level, but in changing the internal structure to suit, I think I may have reduced the mass enough that it's no longer an issue (if it ever was one). That's one of the changes after the prototype build. I solved the engine sections gravity sag problem and came up with a way to connect the forward sections armor that is easier to build. In trying to sequence the steps to build, I've had to reconsider some choices in parts and design. Seems your advice on building before producing instructions was both sound and wise. On the upside, I could likely build one of these without even looking at instructions now.

I'm hoping to have both the build and the instructions ready for April's exhibit. I seriously underestimated the time, effort and work that goes into producing instructions, as well as the importance of good planning in the early design stages. Photos will definitely be forthcoming.

Thanks man. 7 years ago my kids saw how miserable my previous career was making me and I overheard them asking their mother why I was always sad... talk about a wake up moment. Changing from IT security and policy to allied health (training to become a physiotherapist) has undoubtedly been among the top 3 good decisions I've made in my life. Marrying my wife and reconnecting with my passion for Lego being up there :) I've resigned myself to a future full of study in staying current with qualifications and evidence basis.

 

[manglegrat]

On 1/17/2018 at 12:21 AM, Captain_Quinn said:

I'm hoping to have both the build and the instructions ready for April's exhibit. I seriously underestimated the time, effort and work that goes into producing instructions, as well as the importance of good planning in the early design stages. Photos will definitely be forthcoming.

Good luck! That sort of time investment is why I shy away from it myself. Too damn lazy to put in that much time perfecting it all, and my natural restlessness is always driving me to get 'er done, declare success and move on to the next thing! 

Quote

Thanks man. 7 years ago my kids saw how miserable my previous career was making me and I overheard them asking their mother why I was always sad... talk about a wake up moment. Changing from IT security and policy to allied health (training to become a physiotherapist) has undoubtedly been among the top 3 good decisions I've made in my life. Marrying my wife and reconnecting with my passion for Lego being up there :) I've resigned myself to a future full of study in staying current with qualifications and evidence basis.

Good on ya for doing it!  And awesome wife for supporting you through it.  

(mine moved to Canada with me, so I appreciate the awesomeness of supportive wives )

[Rolsen]

Started the process of trying to motorize the Agamemnon.  Not sure how well it will end up working since the initial build didn't envision adding motors whatsoever.  So far, good news is that a large size power functions motor fits in the frame with only minor modifications.  Challenges as I see them right now will be to figure out how to drive the inner teeth of the back most turntable and if the overall friction on the rotating section is going to be too hard for the motor.