Bregir

Shipwrights Guild Hall (WIPs, feedback, and advice)

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41 minutes ago, Bregir said:

but it doesn't always come across perfectly elegant. 

 

Thanks for the assist, I think. I kind of like the way you put it. I do try to use the emojis to dissuade any sense of indignity or arrogance on my part, but it's hard to be both helpful and concise while while finding ways to convey joviality. 

"Perfectly inelegant" I'm gonna use that :pir-grin:

:pir-huzzah2:

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3 hours ago, kurigan said:

-snip-

Well, it "looks" give or take the same. And to be honest, I'm not really interested in making it functional, if you get what I mean? As long as it looks pretty good I'm happy :laugh:.

It's set up very sturdily whilst pre-prepared. I only made the bottom lines pre-application, and then started doing the ratlines one by one to the mast and ensuring their tension. 
Inside the technic pin is actually an elastic rope/wire thingy, that ensures their tension at all times. 
And it's absolutely extremely sturdy too. I've accidentely bumped into the masts with plates and glasses and nothing has shifted (Ship is placed on the dining table at the moment). ^^

What I complain about being delicate isn't the lines and their connectionsthemselves, it's that I made a poor choice of rope lol. Basically if I "twist" the rope between my fingers, the neat little texture of them looking
braided dissapears and they just become 6 induvidual strings. Next ship I'll probably be buying a different type of rope... 
 

 

3 hours ago, Bregir said:

It looks ok and works very well - I can typically lift my ships by the (lower...) masts without problems. Does require firm fixing points in the hull for chains, stays and masts, of course! :pir-classic:

I tried that, but the L32 axles aren't long enough to reach the hull properly, so the masts are being held strongly in place purely by the rigging so far. But it works, for now... :innocent2:
 

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16 hours ago, Thomas Waagenaar said:

I tried that, but the L32 axles aren't long enough to reach the hull properly, so the masts are being held strongly in place purely by the rigging so far. But it works, for now... 

I don't often use the long axles, as I don't have many, yet still it typically ends up strong enough :pir-wink:

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18 hours ago, Bregir said:

I don't often use the long axles, as I don't have many, yet still it typically ends up strong enough :pir-wink:

Well, that's pretty neat then!

I definitely won't try lifting it by the masts, probably could if I sectioned her up again but she just weights too much for me to be comfortable even attempting it 

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2 hours ago, Thomas Waagenaar said:

Well, that's pretty neat then!

I definitely won't try lifting it by the masts, probably could if I sectioned her up again but she just weights too much for me to be comfortable even attempting it 

Well, I should have prefaced that with it only working for smaller, lighter vessels :pir-wink:

But it's a good way to think about it anyway. That you need to construct the keel, chains, and other key structural points in a manner allowing them to support what they are meant to do. If you chainplates are too loosely anchored into the construction, setting up a taught rigging that actively supports the masts will be almost impossible. :pir-classic:

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30 minutes ago, Bregir said:

Well, I should have prefaced that with it only working for smaller, lighter vessels :pir-wink:

But it's a good way to think about it anyway. That you need to construct the keel, chains, and other key structural points in a manner allowing them to support what they are meant to do. If you chainplates are too loosely anchored into the construction, setting up a taught rigging that actively supports the masts will be almost impossible. :pir-classic:

Luckily it does what it's supposed to do :blush:. Can't relate to the smaller vessels yet though, this is the smallest ship I've made so far that wasn't a prototype.

Considering it's still standing after I bumped a pan into it yesterday... (And let's not talk about the plates over the past week, I really need a bigger dining table to construct this stuff on :innocent2:)

Edited by Thomas Waagenaar

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OK, guess I misunderstood.

What @Bregir is referencing is this now infamous shot of me holding Reckless aloft by her mast. I'm kind of, really, sick and tired of it being brought back up to be thrown in my face, particularly because it seems everyone misses the point. It's not just that she can be lifted up, but that the hull is heavy (2.5lbs) and unbalanced while the mast is raked back. Despite all the sheer force this applies to the mast, made only of stacked bricks with no reinforcement and combined with my unconventional hull technique, there she stays, taught and together. I am not handling her delicately, nor did I get the shot in one take, either. 

Spoiler

20161130_020002_zpsfzi50qfr.jpg?width=19

There's nothing to be ashamed of here. I'm proud of this build and there's no reason not to be. I achieved what I set out to, and learned a lot in the process whilst proving my theories about rigging to scale. You don't like it? I don't care. I try to be nice, I try to be helpful and all I get are these little jabs in return. Ya got a method that works for you, great!

Good Day Gentlemen

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I had never seen that image, whenever someone says "small ship" I just imagined something like Renegade Runner set. The fact that she's over 1.1kg and you can just hold her easily that's a really impressive fact, I don't think anyone thinks it isn't!
Genuinly jealous that you managed to rig her so well, as its a feat I personally wouldn't be able to do, no matter how small the ship!
 

14 hours ago, kurigan said:

I try to be nice, I try to be helpful and all I get are these little jabs in return. Ya got a method that works for you, great!

I don't think anyone is jabbing at you. No one is saying what you're doing is bad. And yes, I got a method that works for me, which is great, and indeed, many things to improve for the next project. 

Honestly, communicating like this over the internet is hard, there is no tonal impression, no body language, you can't hear my voice, we can't hear yours, you don't see each others body languages. 
A lot of nuance gets lost via the internet. 

This whole conversation started due to a miscommunication on my part and we've been talking besides each other thinking we were talking about the same but weren't the entire time, I should
have been clearer on what I ment from the start. 

I'm sorry if I made you feel unwanted, that really was not my intention. 

Sorry

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4 hours ago, LM71Blackbird said:

Anything I should change before moving forward?

More cannons to pose a threat to OL fleet maybe? Muhahahaha!  :pir_tong2: (joking ofc)

If you aren't using hinged bricks for structural reasons already, at the bottom gray line, I would try to use some curved slopes at its bow and stern if possible, for a more curved hull impression (as master @Bregir pinpointed to me once among many other things when I posted this boxy monstrosity :pir-grin:!). Your shape, size and width is definitely spot on I would say!!!

By the way has anyone found sufficiently thin waxed ropes? I am finding thicker versions all over the place but nothing sufficiently thin to use at ratlines.

Also has anyone found (a sacrilege I know but it saves time!) ready made ratlines from a model shop? It's an idea I am having in my mind for quite some time but I have yet to encounter any at a proper minifig scale either. Alternatively I don't know if anything like that helps (seems too extravagant though) since I know nothing of tying ratlines myself.

 

Edited by blackdeathgr

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I think, I'll double post this here as it seems apt, and like it'll hang around longer for more users to see if I do. I touch here on a point, I've been, unsuccessfully trying to make for years; Realism vs Accuracy. while the latter will lend it's self to the former, the former is not necessarily exclusive to the latter, but still go hand-in-hand for better results, easier.

 

"Well, here's an opportunity to learn. In, just about, any other modeling medium the, solid, common advice for beginners is not to scratch build, but to "get a kit". If you're still, then, going to scratch build, build something for which, detailed plans are available. It's good advice and applies the same here. Don't design, just copy what was, off a real thing, at least at first. For the purposes of Lego you don't even really need a full set of detailed plans, just the basic elevations you can often get as a preview or from someone who did buy the full set and decided to share, just, that little bit. What you have here isn't bad, it shows that you do have an understanding already of what a ship needs, you'd just need more exposure to better material to understand what's still missing and how better to proportion things. In the end you don't have to stick with historical accuracy, but realism stems from understanding... well real things. It's, sort of, a "learn the rules before you break them" kind of thing. 

Like a broken record I suggest to everyone to check out NRG Model Ship World. It's a great place to find information, resources, even lots of pictures. It's especially handy because you can see what modelers are doing to bring 2D drawings to a 3D medium. Here's a link to a build log for Mary Byrne, a commercially available kit, similar to what you're trying to build here. Plug her name into the search function to find even more.

 

Keep building and best to ya!

Dave :pir-huzzah2:"

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Still needs a little work, but I'm quite happy with how it is turning out. Thank you for the help!

51658139449_86b9c3989b_b.jpg20211105_190804 by LM71Blackbird, on Flickr

51657470146_29029f7551_b.jpg20211105_190821 by LM71Blackbird, on Flickr

51657470091_c425173e3c_b.jpg20211105_190831 by LM71Blackbird, on Flickr

 

And just for fun here is what I started with to what I ended up with:

Spoiler

 

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@LM71Blackbird here's some free plans just googled up. First is a 38 gun Leda class. Second is non-descript Xebec Frigate, because that's what thus is starting to resemble. In either instance you can see that the widest point of the hull is between the fore and main masts.

macedonian_sm.gif

Algerian Xebecs, 1768 (With Plans) - Unrated and other light combat vessels  - Game-Labs Forum

Hope it helps.

Dave

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11 hours ago, kurigan said:

@LM71Blackbird here's some free plans just googled up. First is a 38 gun Leda class. Second is non-descript Xebec Frigate, because that's what thus is starting to resemble. In either instance you can see that the widest point of the hull is between the fore and main masts.

macedonian_sm.gif

Algerian Xebecs, 1768 (With Plans) - Unrated and other light combat vessels  - Game-Labs Forum

Hope it helps.

Dave

Thanks!

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Ops! I gotta offer a correction to myself. That's not a Xebec Frigate, that's just a Xebec. A Xebec Frigate is a hybrid between western style square-riggers and Mediterranean Xebecs. Look something like this:

1280px-Chebec_Mistic-IMG_8860.jpg

Cheers :pir-huzzah2:

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On 9/17/2021 at 9:00 PM, kurigan said:

What @Bregir is referencing is this now infamous shot of me holding Reckless aloft by her mast

Not at all. This is entirely on my own account. I like having my vessels set up with strong rigging. I have seen that picture, but it was not my reference for this. It is my principle for building ships, as I like them to be strong. Partly because I am utterly clumsy... :D

On 11/6/2021 at 12:21 AM, LM71Blackbird said:

And just for fun here is what I started with to what I ended up with:

Epic development, sir!

Size-wise, I would say sloop-of-war (British) or corvette (French) rather than frigate, but that is really unimportant. For your next ship, try to have the hull-sides between the fore and main masts parallel and then only narrow in fore and aft of that.

Overall, though, she will make the navy proud! Good work. I think she is looking real nice. :)

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