Bregir

Shipwrights Guild Hall (WIPs, feedback, and advice)

Recommended Posts

@Justsomebrix Real quick. That's a cartoon. better than most but still not great reference material. The ship pictured does look to be of the same type as Cheerful 1806 of which there are plans available and many models, from kits and otherwise, on offer around the net. What you may notice first off is that she is still too narrow. I'd say about 4-6 studs wider would suit better. Just a guess, that, but just count the studs and do a bit of math. I also wonder at the height of the gunwale and those gunports. I know those frames look pretty slick, but I think they may be a plate or two too high and that affects the overall height of the rail. Look up Le Renard, a French replica cutter of a similar type. You'll note that though the ports are proportional to the ship, the whole thing, just isn't that big. An average size man is only about chest high to the cap rail. (I caution against using modern replicas as reference material. While they can be handy for understanding things like the real size of things as seen next to contemporary people in photographs, they are not always built or fitted-out in the same manner as the original and can lead you astray.)

 

Dave

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, Thomas Waagenaar said:

I'm hoping to license her as a Class 8, given her size (Over 1.5x as long as required for a class 7. No multiple decks but I'm hoping her overall size compensates for that :p) and firepower capabilities etc compared to other class 7's. (Let me know if this is reasonable please ^^)

This seems perfectly reasonable to me. I too have a heavy frigate in the works (for a long time) and she is about the same size and was projected as a class 8 too.

Shee looks very promising all around,  by the way, and I am really liking your masts and tops!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/16/2021 at 5:44 PM, Bregir said:

This seems perfectly reasonable to me.

Good to hear! I wasn't sure since she's still a frigate after all. 😅

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

So here is my current progress on my Cutter

I ended up using stud.io because of my lack of pieces (I hope to buy the pieces once it's completed). I copied the french Cutter le Cerf as my main reference as I really liked her looks and there are a ton of pictures online.

p_4_0_7_407-Le-Cerf.jpg

2021-08-23 (5)2021-08-23 (6)2021-08-23 (1)2021-08-23 (7)

p_1_7_8_2_1782-Le-Cerf.jpg

I would like some advice on how I could make a rounder shape on the lower white part of the hull but most importantly how I could make the rear part of the hull /the back

Edited by Justsomebrix

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, Justsomebrix said:

I copied the french Cutter le Cerf as my main reference as I really liked her looks and there are a ton of pictures online.

I would like some advice on how I could make a rounder shape on the lower white part of the hull but most importantly how I could make the rear part of the hull /the back

OK, first off: Yes! That's exactly what I'm on about my friend. If you're "book smart" that's great and I truly envy you, but if you're not, or you're not yet that invested, popular models (especially kits from reputable companies) are a great source of information as everything is already there at scale and much of the research is already done. It never hurts to know the subject matter more in depth, but when just starting out or doing a one-off build, it isn't really required. Le Cerf is a great choice. Now I can look at what you have and know for sure that you really are on to something. With out that reference I might have said that she's still too narrow, but Le Cerf is long for a cutter, so it just kind of looks that way. You do seem to have her proportions down, though. Great job!

 

I have my own way of achieving the illusion of the ship's counter rising above the water. The method you're using isn't entirely dissimilar so it may help. A row of 3937-3938 hinge bricks makes for a crease where the tumble home above leans in one way, while the counter below bends the other way. It needs some kind of support structure below. With my bending method it's simple as I only need one point of contact to keep the hinges at the right angle, but I'm sure it's quite doable here as well. It would be simpler than putting up a bunch of images or trying to explain any further is to just say, have a look around my photobucket and you'll see how I've approached both the transom and counter structures. I think the Green Schooner (Nonesuch) is most like yours in construction but see what you can garner from a look around.

 

One thing I notice about your build as-is: You seem to have a significant amount of tumblehome continuing around the bow. Most vessels of this size/type from this era will have little to no tumble home (some, like Baltimore Clippers, actually have flair, that is the whale leans outward instead of inward) up forward. It's a really small, low rez image, but in this dorsal view you can kind of make it out. At about the second gun port you see less and less of the ships side until it's just the cap rail at the stem.

136278-9e3a002f431a14557e947811c8eae957.

 

Alright! It makes me feel like a million bucks when someone actually takes my advice, so thanks for that, mate. Thanks for sharing too, keep building.

Cheers :pir-huzzah2:

Dave

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@kuriganthank you very much! And I'll look into it. However one quick question, the tumblehome you're talking about is the use of hinge bricks right? If yes, there's nothing to worry about as I won't be able to use them in the front anyway because of the shape (there won't be space to lean them inwards)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Justsomebrix "Tumblehome" is the progressive reducing of the ship's width, above the water line as to improve the center of balance. The resulting shape makes the hull look like a horse shoe in cross-section. The taller a hull is, the more tumble home is apparent, typically; that is, until about the mid 19th century. 

As for around the bow, someone figured it out and I apologize that I can't give credit because I forget who, but there is a way to continue tumblehome around the bow. It's something to do with the spacing of the hinges. If they are placed deeper inboard than the whale it creates a small gap that can be exploited as such. It's useful when you get in to very large ships where there is still some of that curvature up forward. On smaller vessels, it's rarely necessary so I use what's essentially the method laid out in the CGH tutorial.

 

Dave

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Justsomebrix said:

@kurigan I see, so what exactly was it you meant I should change?

Well, honestly, I'm not going to tell you to change anything, its all up to you. I will suggest that you may have too much tumblehome at the front, but with the stud.io screen grabs I really can't be sure if I'm seeing it right. So, I offered an image and a explanation so you can check it and decide for yourself, instead of reporting back to me, since it's not my build, you're in charge. :pir-wink: If what I think I'm seeing in stud.io is correct, those green sections near the bow should stand more vertical. 

Just a note to all and sundry: If you do manage to engage me in conversation, I'm not going to use terms, with out explanation, that I'm sure you can't just google. I'd rather you go find the explanation on your own in most cases as my personal experience shows that it will, more often than not, lead to a greater understanding of the subject and provide context, particularly with reference to other terms in the same category. I know that, not everyone, wants to become a "ship expert" but I see little sense in eschewing a greater understanding anyway. What's it hurt to learn a few terms, or spend a few minutes chasing a search engine rabbit hole on ship terminology if you come out the other side a bit better well informed? Also, if you repeatedly search the same topic, a smart engine like Google, will learn how to filter your results so you can find better sources over time :pir-wink:

 

Cheers! :pir-huzzah2:

Dave

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Here's my last update before I order the pieces, very happy with how it turned out.

2021-08-27 (1)2021-08-27 (4)2021-08-27 (2)2021-08-27 (3)

2021-08-27 (5)

There are still some small changes that will be made (especially with the back) but I'll do it when I have the pieces as I find it way easier :pir-grin:

Edited by Justsomebrix

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Justsomebrix said:

very happy

And rightly so! She is a beauty and a very well made cutter moc! Looking forward to seeing her in the Brick!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Indeed she is looking good an i too am eager to see her in living plastic. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, blackdeathgr said:

Hm, this got unpinned somehow or it was never pinned to begin with?

It's never been pinned, the number of pinned topics considered. But it is part of the master index. :pir-grin:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rigging is going slowly... Very... Very... Slowly... (My hands are just too big for this, so it takes forever lol).

But eventually we're getting somewhere! First stage of the rigging one done!
I'm going to skip over the horizontal rat lines to be honest, since I'm just too clumsy to get it done nicely. Plus the rope is relatively fine weaving and I don't want to destroy
the texture of it by accident, which I've done plenty times making the current rigging.

51474630994_14554505a6_b.jpg
L'Aurelie by Thomas Waagenaar

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Thomas Waagenaar

Alright, ya got me. Seeing builders struggle drives me nuts. The whole point to a community like this, is to not have to reinvent and struggle through each step on your own. I know I never finished it, yet, but I did make a tutorial on my system and it could really help here. essentially, if you do something like what I describe there in, your rigging won't be so delicate, and you can shove it this way and that as you work. also, though I didn't get nearly that far in the tutorial, the secret to rat lines, is that in full scale they aren't tied directly to the shroud, but are lashed in place with a third piece of rope. I started doing it this way with thread on Reckless, and though the result was pretty spectacular, I was short on time and went for good old overhand knots.

Cheers! :pir-huzzah2:

Dave

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, kurigan said:

@Thomas Waagenaar

Alright, ya got me. Seeing builders struggle drives me nuts. The whole point to a community like this, is to not have to reinvent and struggle through each step on your own. I know I never finished it, yet, but I did make a tutorial on my system and it could really help here. essentially, if you do something like what I describe there in, your rigging won't be so delicate, and you can shove it this way and that as you work. also, though I didn't get nearly that far in the tutorial, the secret to rat lines, is that in full scale they aren't tied directly to the shroud, but are lashed in place with a third piece of rope. I started doing it this way with thread on Reckless, and though the result was pretty spectacular, I was short on time and went for good old overhand knots.

Cheers! :pir-huzzah2:

Dave

Haha, my rigging actually already is like how yours is, but with some added details ^^.

Just haven't done the ratlines, I got some ideas for how to do them easily (as to be honest, I don't feel like spending 2 weeks doing just ratlines ;) ).

Basically I'm thinking of using a needle to pull a tiny string through the vertical lines and then just dropping tiny dots of glue on each connection to secure it. And then (if I feel like it) I'll just make some tiny knots on their connection point, but that's only if I truly feel up to the task lol ^^

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, Thomas Waagenaar said:

Basically I'm thinking of using a needle to pull a tiny string through the vertical lines and then just dropping tiny dots of glue on each connection to secure it.

Good luck! Very close to the method I am using:

On 12/15/2019 at 2:14 PM, Wellesley said:

 People have asked about a rigging tutorial.
Here are some first pictures of how I do the ratlines. Other things will follow.

49222336577_29530e8788.jpg49222336417_91774e6516.jpg49222110456_34011a4c7c.jpg49222110311_94e5c6d938.jpg

I pull the thread only through all the shrouds in the middle (in this case just one). It makes it easier to make the knots on both the outer shrouds. Also I make all the knots on one side first and use a drop of fabric glue to secure them. After drying I fix the length of each ratline and make knots on the other side.

If you are really ambitious you could make a knot each shroud instead.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, Thomas Waagenaar said:

Haha, my rigging actually already is like how yours is, but with some added details ^^.

But, it's not... :pir-sceptic:

You've got block and tackle, or something arranger to look like it, already in place awaiting the shrouds, so they can't be functional. That's the whole basis to my system. All the block and tackle (pullies, eyes, etc.) are functional. Some builders have used the 4624 deadeyes in a manner similar to yours here, where they were all tied to uniform length ahead of time, but only for the look. It's fundamentally different. My only point is that you complain that yours is a delicate configuration, but I don't have that problem. Once I start taking up tension on the deadeyes I can push, prod and bump the rig around all I need to get it done; much like the real thing. I mean, whatever, you do you, just don't go putting my name on it if it's not gonna be what I do :pir-wink:

 

As fir the ratlines, that's a good plan. Couldn't remember where I saw that done, but there's Wellesley chiming to jog my memory. :pir-grin:

 

Cheers Mate! :pir-huzzah2:

Dave

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In terms of rigging, I always try to set it up very sturdy, and while it isn't near historical, I use a single technic bushing with a 2 long axle through it, which I then secure to one end of the shrouds, tighten them up, and then lock the other end in place with the axle.

It looks ok and works very well - I can typically lift my ships by the (lower...) masts without problems. Does require firm fixing points in the hull for chains, stays and masts, of course! :pir-classic:

And I implore anyone not to take Kurigan's comments too near - there is a lot of great info in there, and I absolutely applaud and recommend the additions @kurigan give here, but it doesn't always come across perfectly elegant. Remember, we are here to have fun, and embrace all styles of building. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.