Shipwrights Guild Hall (WIPs, feedback, and advice)

[Bodi]

Fireship, it was composed of two boats, the larger one carried explosives, the smaller one was in tow, and served as life boat when the fireship is ignited.

The larger one measures about 15m and the smaller boat is about 5m.

Link boat, it was also a fireship, the front boat carried explosives and the crew was on the rear boat.

Wheel boat, hull length: about 14m, it had four man-driven wheels.

Boat with 8 oars.

Dragon Fire Boat, some sort of wheel-boat, two decked, the hull is protected with cow leather or bamboo sheets, armament comprises all sorts of muskets and fire arrows.

All the above junks are sea-going vessels, the book Illustrations of Ancient Chinese Boats also shows a large variety of riverine war junks, don't know if you are interested though.

[Wellesley]

10 hours ago, Bodi said:

Thanks again for all the pictures. Especially this one helped me in changing the rig on my ship. I also elongated he hull and changed the red stripe a bit.

I just realised that I can shorten the flagpole. Also the main mast could be higher.

First versus second Version:

[Bodi]

2 hours ago, Wellesley said:

First versus second Version:

The second version looks nicer, but the two masted configuration of the first version looks good too.

[Bodi]

11 hours ago, Bregir said:

Very interesting, @Bodi. I find the first pictures the most enlightening in terms of hull shapes, and I am most intrigued by the flat bows of these junks. I have a feeling the leeway on these would have been absolutely horrendous!

From I've read, these junks had flat bow and v-shaped hull bottom, the flat bow can reduce the ship's pitch significantly, though it had a negative effect on ship's speed, I haven't find any mention about leeway yet, maybe it was not so obvious when travelling at low speed.

[Wellesley]

For now I just have paper sails, because I haven't decided on a colour yet. I will probably go with a tan or light brown cloth version. Red also was an obvious choice but I think the hull already contains enough. Unfortunately I only have blue, green, yellow and white cloth here. Will see, if I can find some within the next days. Some papyrus or paper like the following could also have a nice effect, but I prefer working with cloth.

 

Unfortunately I made a mistake on the main sail. I wanted to have the battens on the other side. Now both sails are mounted at the same. It's not that dramatic as I will make new sails anyways.
Also in this version I didn't include any sheets. I think my sails are somewhere between the "typical" sail shape and the nearly square ones I only now came to know because of Bodi's pictures.

Maybe the sails should be wider. And maybe I should try one of the three mast placements below.

[Ross Fisher]

What I love about junks is that none of the masts seem to be parallel. Really gives it loads of character.

[Bodi]

@Wellesley Looking good! I'm impressed by your building speed. 

[Bodi]

Here are two custom hulls for smaller boats I've been building as a distraction, with good ol'technique. The first one is more parts intensive, using a lot of plates and tiles to shape the hull, the second one requires much less parts, of lighter construction, I'd eventually use it as a gunboat or a cutter to ferry goods and passengers.

[The Neighborhood Merchant]

I'm sure this has already been asked before, but does anyone have recommendations for what kind of material/brand to go with for sails for a frigate? I tried just picking up some generic brand bed sheets at target and the material I found frayed way too much and were too thin. Something durable, thick, and white would be really nice! I was kind of hoping to achieve sails similar to Swan Dutchman's De Ruyter.

Also, thank you for sharing your cutter hulls @Bodi! They're gorgeous! 

 

[Brickander Brickumnus]

On 12/28/2019 at 6:34 AM, SilentWolf said:

This is very nice! 

Can you upload some more high quality renders and from different angles?

[blackdeathgr]

On 3/29/2020 at 8:40 PM, The Neighborhood Merchant said:

what kind of material/brand to go with for sails for a frigate

You can search for a canvas-like cloth called "caboto" that is used at the wooden ship models. It is thick-ish and its color is somewhere between white and tan (which is the perfect color for sails imo). Example below (see the frailing though?). Click the pic for a close up at flickr.

If you can't find anything, dipping white cloth with a thickness of your liking to a bucket/tupper/whatever full of tea and leave it for a couple of hours, depending how "dark" you want it to be, is a good alternative. This tip comes from an old post somewhere here in this forum and I have seen it work.

There are readily available canvas sheets (the ones you print photos on your pc - try Staples if you are living in the US) which are "infused" with a form of plastic substance which makes them more stiff. While never used them myself yet, they are a nice and easier to get alternative.

If all the above fail, you can always go to the local tailor/fabric shop the whay I go, tell him what you want to do and he will give you various remnants of fabrics of various thickness he doesn't want anymore so that you experiment on your own. Black sails are nice too btw. Example with a fairly thick-ish cloth that frails way less, below. Again, click the pics for a close up at flickr.

Finally, in order to cut your sails to a pattern you like, you have to use really sharp scissors (a tip from my tailor) else most of the fabrics tend to frail. Fabrics frail with time too. In order to prevent frailing, some people use transparent nail polisher and apply a bit at the edges. Don't use too much else it will shimmer when looking it in the light. Oh, and last but not least, for holes at the fabrics I use a tool that is used at opening belt holes. It's fairly cheap. All the above work with custom capes too although you need to aim at thickier fabrics. Examples of some capes etc I made for a friend and fellow LUG member here and here.

Edited April 7, 2020 by blackdeathgr

[Bregir]

Great ideas and inspiration, bd!

Cloth sails really do give a moc that extra (although I find it tedious work...), but I do find that in many cases, paper sails will do 80 or 90 % of the job with a good cut and some pencil drawing of lines, reefpoints, etc.

[The Neighborhood Merchant]

Wow! Thank you so much @blackdeathgr! 

I tried the printable canvas sheets before with my "Boreas's Haul" from last year, and while it was amazing that I had zero issues with fraying, they sadly looked very similar to paper and could only be distinguishable for me by touch. 

I think I'll go with your idea and go to my local fabric store and ask around, maybe pick up some kind of paste to harden the sails as you said.

Thanks again for your help, it is GREATLY appreciated, as well as the in-depth response! 

 

@Bregir Speaking of drawing the lines, could someone tell me what the purpose of those are on any square-rigged ship? I never took a sailing class nor have any knowledge as to how those are supposed to function. I figured that if I drew them, I probably should know their purpose so I do so correctly. 

[Bregir]

2 hours ago, The Neighborhood Merchant said:

@Bregir Speaking of drawing the lines, could someone tell me what the purpose of those are on any square-rigged ship? I never took a sailing class nor have any knowledge as to how those are supposed to function. I figured that if I drew them, I probably should know their purpose so I do so correctly. 

To the best of my knowledge, the only reason to have those lines on the sails is to represent the stitches. Canvas would not be made in large enough pieces for a sail, so it would be stitched together by several strips of canvas.

[Disabella]

Greetings!

I think I've already finished constructing this cutter and soon will start placing rigging, red sails and flags.

If you have some ideas what i can add there or critics I'll be glad to see them!

IMG_20200407_225441 by Ramazan Abdullayev, on Flickr

 

IMG_20200404_183041 by Ramazan Abdullayev, on Flickr

 

IMG_20200404_183048 by Ramazan Abdullayev, on Flickr

 

IMG_20200404_183056 by Ramazan Abdullayev, on Flickr

 

IMG_20200407_225447 by Ramazan Abdullayev, on Flickr

 

IMG_20200407_225454 by Ramazan Abdullayev, on Flickr

[Ross Fisher]

2 hours ago, Disabella said:

I think I've already finished constructing this cutter...

If you have some ideas what i can add there or critics I'll be glad to see them!

I know that dazzle painting has a genuine history in naval warfare, but I'd really like to see a few fewer colours...

[Bregir]

3 hours ago, Disabella said:

If you have some ideas what i can add there or critics I'll be glad to see them!

There is some excellent shaping going on there! The colours (I suppose due to availability of bricks?) do make it a little hard to make out, but in general, this is a very impressive build. With the use of classic slopes and some nice snot work, you have gotten a very good shape! I like the overall sheer, and the bow is well-rounded, but what really steals the show is the stern and rudder. We rarely see full hull models, and the rudder, with the top sticking up through the deck connecting to the tiller is really nice. It did take me a while to identify what the anchors were, but they are actually really well done.

The obvious suggestion is of course a more uniform colour scheme and some more tiles. It would be great to see this in a uniform colour scheme, but in any case, I will be looking forward to seeing her rigged.

[Disabella]

17 hours ago, Ross Fisher said:

I know that dazzle painting has a genuine history in naval warfare, but I'd really like to see a few fewer colours...

The reason why it is colorful is just I don't have enough bricks to make a sailingship of normal size and make it not colorful.

 

15 hours ago, Bregir said:

There is some excellent shaping going on there! The colours (I suppose due to availability of bricks?) do make it a little hard to make out, but in general, this is a very impressive build. With the use of classic slopes and some nice snot work, you have gotten a very good shape! I like the overall sheer, and the bow is well-rounded, but what really steals the show is the stern and rudder. We rarely see full hull models, and the rudder, with the top sticking up through the deck connecting to the tiller is really nice. It did take me a while to identify what the anchors were, but they are actually really well done.

The obvious suggestion is of course a more uniform colour scheme and some more tiles. It would be great to see this in a uniform colour scheme, but in any case, I will be looking forward to seeing her rigged.

Yeah, count of bricks is pretty poor. Actually all flat parts with 1pin width are gone to this cutter and another my ship, so I don't know how to build something more xD.

I guess, tomorrow I'll be at my granny's where I'll choose fabric for sails and start twisting ropes.

And of course, thank you for complimentary comment!

Edited April 8, 2020 by Disabella

[The Neighborhood Merchant]

Nice cutter, @Disabella! I agree with everyone else in saying this definitely would look stunning if it was in actual colors, but I have to add how well you did with what you have! Like Bregir said, the stern is fantastic and the overall brick-built look is excellent. Since you're running out of parts, I'd recommend looking into bricklink. Hopefully, you might be able to find the parts in colors you're looking for there. You definitely already are very good at building ships, and I'm sure all of us would love to see your next one with a color scheme to it.

I look forward to seeing it rigged and with sails! 

[Disabella]

On 4/9/2020 at 6:55 PM, The Neighborhood Merchant said:

Nice cutter, @Disabella! I agree with everyone else in saying this definitely would look stunning if it was in actual colors, but I have to add how well you did with what you have! Like Bregir said, the stern is fantastic and the overall brick-built look is excellent. Since you're running out of parts, I'd recommend looking into bricklink. Hopefully, you might be able to find the parts in colors you're looking for there. You definitely already are very good at building ships, and I'm sure all of us would love to see your next one with a color scheme to it.

I look forward to seeing it rigged and with sails! 

Thank you! I actually know about bricklink service and hopefully will use it to make next ship.

I guess I've almost completed rigging and wanted to ask if there is something that I forgot or could add.

Rigging progress by Ramazan Abdullayev, on Flickr

And next step is sails!

[kurigan]

@Disabella

When your Fluyt showed up I was certain it was a troll and refused to take the bait. I looked it over and couldn't get my head around why anyone would put so much structural work into a build with such disregard for color scheme, unless it was on purpose (or perhaps they were severely color blind). With great concentration, you can see that there are plenty of repeated colors which could be consolidated to form, at least patches, if not contribute to some kind of intentional, uniform pattern. Then, this one comes along, and my impression is the same but I get to thinking. It may still be a trolling, trying to illicit harsh criticism, but maybe not. 

Let me ask you this: Is your Lego collection organized?

When I decided to revive my interest in ships though Lego, I just dug out my child-hood Lego, all mixed up and partially assembled. As a result, I couldn't muster enough to build any significantly sized models. It wasn't until I knuckled-down and sorted my collection that I could really build reasonably scaled models.

It doesn't need to be hyper-organized, with each part in a little drawer. I just keep baggies of like parts (bricks, plates, tiles, etc.) in shoe boxes of one color. So, now, if I want to build a new ship, I can visit the color box I'm thinking and determine ahead of time, if I have enough to build what I'm designing. Say I'm into a new brig, of 18 guns. I'd like to make it from Tan, but I don't have enough 1 X bricks in that color, so instead I go into my White box and find an abundance. Since I don't want to pay for more Tan, I'll shelf it and build Snake from white. 

You can keep doing whatever you want, it's no skin off my back. I think that there's something to your builds, though, and that your lack of composition is doing your work a disservice.

 

Cheers

Dave

[TeriXeri]

I don't understand the complaints about lack of color, if someone clearly explains they don't have the parts on hand.

I think it's nice to see people post MOCs that clearly show effort in shaping/design, not everyone has thousands of Euro/Dollars of LEGO to pick from.

I do love those ships for sure @Disabella

Are those Dutch flags on the ship in the back? 

And the Red Lion on yellow background from the coat of arms of the Counts of Holland.

Edited April 11, 2020 by TeriXeri

[kurigan]

@TeriXeri Don't do that. don't tar everyone with a similar opinion with the same brush. We're not villains. He asked for feed back. Just because the same feedback keeps coming from different quarters, it's not a conspiracy, there's no cabal. perhaps, there's something to it though.No one's told Disabella his work is bad or wrong. For my part, and trust me, these other guys don't talk to me off board, if there wasn't something to it, you wouldn't be hearing from me, and I get the impression that a lot of the old-time regulars share my philosophy. It's great that you're supportive, but don't cheapen honest criticisim, based on hard won experience, buy coloring it as cruel disregard.

Best

Dave

[Sir Kingston]

On 1/13/2020 at 7:56 AM, Bregir said:

I think I have 6 different almost finished vessels sitting around my work space...

Looks great - and as Thaum says, those tops are real nice. How did you fix the lower end of the topmast to the top? I have been struggling with that specific connection myself.

As to rigging in general, I think you have it pretty well covered, and adding more will probably only clutter it up. Your foretopgallant-stay is hanging limp, though!

As to companionway, it is not something I have ever given much thought. On larger vessels, I have a door or opening under the quarterdeck that would cover it. On smaller vessels, I typically just show a hatch cover or similar. I won't claim any of it to be historical, but I don't think age of sail ships would have proper "phone booth"-like little houses for the companionway.

I was under the impression that a companion-way is a sort of staircase connecting all of the decks together? I found this picture, it may be useful to someone...?

Edited April 12, 2020 by Sir Kingston

[Disabella]

9 hours ago, kurigan said:

@Disabella

When your Fluyt showed up I was certain it was a troll and refused to take the bait. I looked it over and couldn't get my head around why anyone would put so much structural work into a build with such disregard for color scheme, unless it was on purpose (or perhaps they were severely color blind). With great concentration, you can see that there are plenty of repeated colors which could be consolidated to form, at least patches, if not contribute to some kind of intentional, uniform pattern. Then, this one comes along, and my impression is the same but I get to thinking. It may still be a trolling, trying to illicit harsh criticism, but maybe not. 

Let me ask you this: Is your Lego collection organized?

When I decided to revive my interest in ships though Lego, I just dug out my child-hood Lego, all mixed up and partially assembled. As a result, I couldn't muster enough to build any significantly sized models. It wasn't until I knuckled-down and sorted my collection that I could really build reasonably scaled models.

It doesn't need to be hyper-organized, with each part in a little drawer. I just keep baggies of like parts (bricks, plates, tiles, etc.) in shoe boxes of one color. So, now, if I want to build a new ship, I can visit the color box I'm thinking and determine ahead of time, if I have enough to build what I'm designing. Say I'm into a new brig, of 18 guns. I'd like to make it from Tan, but I don't have enough 1 X bricks in that color, so instead I go into my White box and find an abundance. Since I don't want to pay for more Tan, I'll shelf it and build Snake from white. 

You can keep doing whatever you want, it's no skin off my back. I think that there's something to your builds, though, and that your lack of composition is doing your work a disservice.

 

Cheers

Dave 

I'm not trolling actually.

My lego pieces collection is not big enough to create my ships not colorful keeping the same size and that's why I sort pieces not by colour but by the piece type. 

Since I've found that this problem is too disturbing I'll put whole my effort to make proper coloured ship next. I think I'll use bricklink for it because now I even don't have any flat parts 1 pin width.