Shipwrights Guild Hall (WIPs, feedback, and advice)

[SpaceJoey86]

I have started building a new ship, a brig in a semi-classic lego style, so here it is

DSCN8382

DSCN8384

But it is not finished, I a not sure how to make the stern deck, and the captains cabin.

DSCN8387

Also see if you can spot the lego set these pieces came from (except the cannons and a few misc parts)

Your ships all look great, Bodi the ladder (if it is a ladder) should be a stud over IMHO, so it is no touching the cannon thingy!

Legostone, very fancy gold details, and also a ladder well placed. I thin it would be good enough for licence without sails if you put decks and mast(s) on, but still up to Bregir I guess.

Also what class do you think this would be? 4 or 5?

[Kwatchi]

Looks like a great start.

48 minutes ago, SpaceJoey86 said:

Also what class do you think this would be? 4 or 5?

After the ruling on my WIP last week, I went back and tried to figure out this kind of thing this myself. @Legostone or @Bregir will have to confirm, but I think I have deciphered out the rule of thumb for part of the class range using the example ships.

 

Class 5: three (3) prefab mid hull sections or equivalent.

Class 6: four (4) prefab mid hull sections or equivalent.

Class 7: five (5) prefab mid hull sections or equivalent.

Class 8: six (6) prefab mid hull sections or equivalent.

 

Keep in mind these all use the full-size prefab hull bricks and not the skinnier ones. So with each each hull section being 8 studs in length, and the end bricks being 12 (except the old sterns at 14), you can generate a stud length if you scratch build.

So a class 5 is roughly 48 studs and a class 6 is around 56 at just above the "waterline" (i.e. you are measuring one brick up from the base).  Since the class 4 example doesn't use the same hull pieces, I'd theorize a class 4 at approximately 40 studs length based on the pattern.

Anyway, my best guess.

 

[Bregir]

Ok, all, I realise I am a bit late with some of these comments, but I thought I'd weigh in on all anyway - feel free to disregard the comments if they are outdated!

@merc: I don't think I've seen many examples of vessels of this era being built on these hulls, so I am sure it will be interesting. I like how you are trying to expand her in the middle. I'd suggest you try to make it a little less blocky - perhaps using jumper plates will make the hull less blocky? (By making the steps smaller) Anyways, looking forward to how she turns out.

@Ragni Norgrimson: That technique gives a great shape for the tumblehome, although it does seem quite parts intensive! I am hoping you will keep sharing your progress - it looks very promising.

@Ayrlego: Really nice hull-shape. For my own hinge-based I do something like below. It is very similar to what Flavius suggested, I think.

@Drunknok: Adding that curve really did a lot to the overall looks! I will be looking forward to seeing her progress, particularly around the bow and stern where I tend to struggle myself.

I would suggest you try turning the dark blue slopes upside down, to make the tumblehome start from the lower deck guns. The guns are looking good too, btw.

@Flavius Gratian: Lovely little sloop - I like what you've done with rigging. I would do away with the backstays. The shrouds should be sufficient to hold up the mast, and the current backstays limit the movement of boom and gaff. If you are to mount backstays, I think they should be anchored further forward and go to the topmast. (Which is currently unsupported)

I would also mount boom, gaff, and yards differently so they can move just like they should in reality. Basically, I mount them with string, and for boom and gaff, check this out: (Which is largely based on what you did for the boom on the Wentham, actually )

The hull is pretty good, and I love how you made the hatch.

@Kwatchi: Ambitious project, sir! For a moment I thought that lamp was some strange, scorpion-ish implement on the bowsprit!

I like what you have done with her decks, although you could consider adding a capstan?

@Legostone: Lots of great vessels there! And the Galleon build came out great - well done!

@Bodi: What are you aiming for? It looks like it could be a great little schooner or brig-of-war. I like the sharply cut bow, but the way the curve of the hull sort of flattens out near the stern looks a bit odd to me.

[Bregir]

@SpaceJoey86: Looks interesting - I would be interested in seeing an overview picture. And the working capstan is cool! As to class, I never make up my mind before I see the final result, but off the top of my head I would say somewhere in the 3-5 range.

On 8/1/2018 at 9:49 PM, Kwatchi said:

lass 5: three (3) prefab mid hull sections or equivalent.

Class 6: four (4) prefab mid hull sections or equivalent.

Class 7: five (5) prefab mid hull sections or equivalent.

Class 8: six (6) prefab mid hull sections or equivalent.

It isn't too far off, but it also depends on the overall size of the vessel - a very sleek 4 prefab ship would probably be a class 5 (like my own Blazer, for instance), and in class 8, I think we are starting to outgrow the prefabs. I would probably say a slightly more accurate order would be:

Class 5: 3 to 4 prefabs

Class 6: 4 to 5

Class 7: 5 to 6

But again, it is a rule of thumb and depends on the rest of the moc. I think we can all agree that on any given number of prefabs, you can make widely different types and sizes of ships.

@Legostone: You have dabbled in prefab sizes before - can you take a look at the above rule-of-thumb?

Would it be helpful if we make the above rule of thumb an "official" part of the rules?

On 8/1/2018 at 9:49 PM, Kwatchi said:

So a class 5 is roughly 48 studs and a class 6 is around 56 at just above the "waterline" (i.e. you are measuring one brick up from the base).  Since the class 4 example doesn't use the same hull pieces, I'd theorize a class 4 at approximately 40 studs length based on the pattern.

Same as above(might need similar adjustment) - a fairly good rule of thumb, but depending on many different variables such as width, height, and length above water.

Also, let me just share my own progress.

First on my corvette/shipsloop, which is only missing sails by now.

And with the challenge deadline being extended, I procrastinated a bit more with a late galleon/early terraman sort of vessel:

[Legostone]

2 hours ago, Bregir said:

@Legostone: You have dabbled in prefab sizes before - can you take a look at the above rule-of-thumb?

Ah, that month long discussion we had ages ago? This is my initial suggestion from ages ago, but I think in general it should still apply:

Class 0 - comparable to rowing boat
Class 1 - small custom hull, very light construction if it is a small prefab
Class 2 - no mid, or 1 mid very light
Class 3 - 1 or 2 mids (Example Phreds vessel & La Salamandra)
Class 4 - 2 mids if it has a covered gundeck (example El Matador), 3 mids if not (Example Lady Jacqueline). Generally the upper limit for small hulls due to width.
Class 5 - 3 or 4 mids (Examples: Capt Wolfs smaller Galleons/Bregirs Postship. Bregirs might be longer, but Capt Wolfs Galleons look bigger.
Class 6 - 4 or 5 midsections. Ayrlegos Galleon, Ayrlegos Frigate
Class 7 - 5 or 6 (SOTL or Galleon: 5; Frigate 6; Bodi's smaller SOTL for example)
Class 8 - 6+ midsections, 2+ decks (Bodis largest SOTL yet)
Class 9 - 7 mids if 3 decks, else custom hull (no example yet)
Class 10 - custom hull 

As for mentioning in the rules - we have had many issues with clarity in the rules before, and the archetypes didn't help there either. I think it would clearly be useful for everyone to have a better guideline...

[Bregir]

5 minutes ago, Legostone said:

Bregirs Postship

Are you referring to the Ironsides? :) In that case, I agree.

7 minutes ago, Legostone said:

please refresh in ~20 minutes, writing the other part for the ships ;)

Got it ;)

[Legostone]

1 minute ago, Bregir said:

Are you referring to the Ironsides? :) In that case, I agree.

Got it ;)

 

yeah, the ironsides.

Your post made me lose my edited in parts :( Oh well...

 

Ship sloop - still missing sails, I can understand that problem. Having the same with one of my vessels here, maybe not for quite as long - yet

Galleon - more interesting update; I think the general shape is decent, though I think the widest part (18 studs wide I'm guessing) could be shifted a bit further forward; though it would still be just fine either way. The beak and stern still have their issues - the addition of dark green is fine and adds a fine accent (though it would probably be great if it would also appear elsewhere - maybe around the stern somewhere?), but the shape could be better. Let's take a look at a random Galleon:

You see how massive that part is? It shouldn't be flimsy and tiny (which it is for now). You can find lots of other examples with similar shapes, and the general triangle shape is usually shared between all of them. Also note - above the beak, there is no more of the round shape of the bow - it rather starts in the round shape of the bow and goes outward basically. I don't think the bow of my Galleon is a perfect example here, but I think it shows how the general shape can be achieved. 

The stern - too many colours for my taste. You have brown, black, gold, red, white and tan there. I would try to limit the colours in a single area (galleries, decorative plate ontop) to a maximum of 3 (I think you can maybe skip the gold completely - either use a boatload of it or none works best most of the time). Not quite sure about the angled windows, but I think that can work with some more details around them, but do you even need that many? Lastly, I think it would look much better if you just continued the hull up instead of suddenly moving to angled slopes 1 stud in. 

I hope I didn't take it apart completely here, I hope to see some progress sooner then later :D (If you are looking for pictures of Galleons etc - check out Modernknight's Albums on flickr

[Bodi]

4 hours ago, Bregir said:

flattens out near the stern

Hum, it should be deformed on the photo, because there's a curve and it may look odd under certain angle, in fact the hull goes up 1 plate every 4 studs, from the centre towards the stern.

4 hours ago, Bregir said:

little schooner or brig-of-war

Something bigger.

On 2018/1/9 at 3:27 AM, SpaceJoey86 said:

a stud over

Good point.

4 hours ago, Bregir said:

late galleon/early terraman

Looking good! I like how you've angled the stern.

[Capt Wolf]

8 hours ago, Legostone said:

This is my initial suggestion from ages ago, but I think in general it should still apply:

Class 0 - comparable to rowing boat
Class 1 - small custom hull, very light construction if it is a small prefab
Class 2 - no mid, or 1 mid very light
Class 3 - 1 or 2 mids (Example Phreds vessel & La Salamandra)
Class 4 - 2 mids if it has a covered gundeck (example El Matador), 3 mids if not (Example Lady Jacqueline). Generally the upper limit for small hulls due to width.

I think these (above) are good guidelines.

8 hours ago, Legostone said:

Class 5 - 3 or 4 mids (Examples: Capt Wolfs smaller Galleons/Bregirs Postship. Bregirs might be longer, but Capt Wolfs Galleons look bigger.
Class 6 - 4 or 5 midsections. Ayrlegos Galleon, Ayrlegos Frigate
Class 7 - 5 or 6 (SOTL or Galleon: 5; Frigate 6; Bodi's smaller SOTL for example)
Class 8 - 6+ midsections, 2+ decks (Bodis largest SOTL yet)
Class 9 - 7 mids if 3 decks, else custom hull (no example yet)
Class 10 - custom hull

These I think are off a bit, in large part because of the point you make about some ships being longer or looking bigger. I'm not sure why my ships look bigger, but my class 6 Prince Fernando is 3-1/2 mids plus a custom stern, and my class 7 La Contessa is only 4 mids plus a custom stern. I also think it's very difficult to build anything larger than a class 7 on prefabs, as the proportions begin to get out of balance. I think it would be best if we kept these as only guidelines, not hard and fast rules. If anything, we need to add more visual examples to the ship class guide.

 

On 12/31/2017 at 9:52 PM, Kwatchi said:

If anything, The Margot was short-shrifted should be pushed up a class

I've always thought this from day one. I've always thought the Margot is a better example of a class 8 than a class 7.

On 12/31/2017 at 9:08 PM, Drunknok said:

On 12/31/2017 at 3:22 PM, Kwatchi said:

I need a size check opinion on a WIP frigate build.  Length is 66 studs (5 prefab mid section and 2 ends); width at the waist is 19 studs, and height at the waist is roughly 12 to the the decking.  So for comparison purposes, one prefab section longer, a bit wider because of some tumbledown, and one gun deck taller than the IFS.

It is certainly not a ship of the line like the Royal Phillipe, so class 10 is out.

The only three class 8 comparables are Etats de Boussac, the Expedition, and Terrible/Tonnant, and I think it could fit in that category.

Going by "historical standards", this would be a fifth rate ship. By the BotBS standards this should be a class 7 in my opinion. Your ship looks very close to the Margot shown there.

And while I can see why some would put this as class 7, I can see why others would say it is a class 8. i would support it as a class 8. Call it a small class 8 if you want, but still a class 8.

[Bregir]

12 hours ago, Legostone said:

Class 0 - comparable to rowing boat
Class 1 - small custom hull, very light construction if it is a small prefab
Class 2 - no mid, or 1 mid very light
Class 3 - 1 or 2 mids (Example Phreds vessel & La Salamandra)
Class 4 - 2 mids if it has a covered gundeck (example El Matador), 3 mids if not (Example Lady Jacqueline). Generally the upper limit for small hulls due to width.
Class 5 - 3 or 4 mids (Examples: Capt Wolfs smaller Galleons/Bregirs Postship. Bregirs might be longer, but Capt Wolfs Galleons look bigger.
Class 6 - 4 or 5 midsections. Ayrlegos Galleon, Ayrlegos Frigate
Class 7 - 5 or 6 (SOTL or Galleon: 5; Frigate 6; Bodi's smaller SOTL for example)
Class 8 - 6+ midsections, 2+ decks (Bodis largest SOTL yet)
Class 9 - 7 mids if 3 decks, else custom hull (no example yet)
Class 10 - custom hull 

As for mentioning in the rules - we have had many issues with clarity in the rules before, and the archetypes didn't help there either. I think it would clearly be useful for everyone to have a better guideline.

Ill see if I can link the ships in question and add this as a "general guideline" to the rules.

3 hours ago, Capt Wolf said:

I've always thought this from day one. I've always thought the Margot is a better example of a class 8 than a class 7.

I do not think we should start redefining the classes now. By definition, the Margot is not just "a" class 7. It is "the" class 7, that every other ship has to be measured against, so it can only be short-changed if other ships are mis-licensed. The archetypes are the fixed beacons to which all other mocs are to be measured. Only that way do we avoid class creep in the long run.

This is what we decided when making the rules, and changing this up will mean a whole new round of licensing and relicensing, identifying the proper class, etc. It took long enough the first time around.

3 hours ago, Capt Wolf said:

And while I can see why some would put this as class 7, I can see why others would say it is a class 8. i would support it as a class 8. Call it a small class 8 if you want, but still a class 8.

It is the same number of midsections as the margot, it is the same type, it has the same number of decks. It is literally right there with the archetype for class 7. Unless I am missing something?

11 hours ago, Legostone said:

Let's take a look at a random Galleon:

This isn't a random galleon, really - I will need you to go forward appr. 200 years to find what I am aiming for . That is a picture of a very early, and possible stylised galleon. Imagine my *late* galleon as the end of an era. It still has a relatively prominent beakhead, although not the monster of earlier vessels, and the tall stern and to some degree fore castle, but it is the "missing link" between the galleons and the tall ships of the napoleonic era. Personally, I quite like the shape I have achieved, both the hull itself, the bow and the stern. Probably isn't perfect, but the transitionings are, for my skills at least, fairly successful and took a lot of time to get "right". I do agree that the tilted windows look a little off, but it was the best way I could do it, and I think it adds character.

9 hours ago, Bodi said:

Hum, it should be deformed on the photo, because there's a curve and it may look odd under certain angle, in fact the hull goes up 1 plate every 4 studs, from the centre towards the stern.

Maybe it is the angle of the photo - sorry.

9 hours ago, Bodi said:

Something bigger.

Oh, do tell! For me, the shape of the hull just reminded me of a flush-decked brig-of-war. It could look like a corvette too.

9 hours ago, Bodi said:

Looking good! I like how you've angled the stern.

Thanks - I think that works pretty well too!

[Roadmonkeytj]

So I contemplated holding off posting any pictures of this but alas ...

Ive falling into a rut.  Ive moved the masts several times three looks too crowded and the placement of the second just never looks right. (dont have the inventory of bricks for masts).  They are currently mounted to hinge plates giving them a slight rake with wedges.

Admittedly I originally tried copying a build style then once i figured it out this developed.  The colors are not final and have so far changed twice nor are some of them anything but place holders until i get the color scheme decided on ... As my intent was merchant ship I employed some decals for dummy ports.  I also am not liking the way the galleries?? (Not sure if thats the name the side windows at the stern) tie into the hull ... But quite honestly I haven't found a good solution.

So I come to yall for advice in going forward with this one

Also it seems that dark grey is interpretive as I put decent order of grey in and its more comparable to dark blueish grey ... But im running with it for now.

 

[Bregir]

Is this your first age of sail era vessel? Looks really good, with a lot of good details. I really like the use of the old windows, and the overall shape is really nice. Most people struggle with getting such organic shapes.

If anything, your horisontal curve is a bit off, the curve sort of breaking off at the ends. I don't know if that makes any sense, but let me try to "draw" it below. The first is your curve, the second the "real curve", both exaggerated for effect :P

On 17/1/2018 at 12:26 PM, Roadmonkeytj said:

Ive falling into a rut.  Ive moved the masts several times three looks too crowded and the placement of the second just never looks right. (dont have the inventory of bricks for masts).  They are currently mounted to hinge plates giving them a slight rake with wedges.

I would go with two masts for a vessel this size, specifically a brig.

I looked at some pictures of brigs and I think you should relocate the foremast to just aft of the foremost gunport and the mainmast between the 5th and the 6th gunport. (Here I am assuming that all the red patches are gunports) Keep in mind that on a brig, the aftmost mast is the mainmast and should be taller. Further, it carries a very large spanker sail.

If you maintain the foremast as the mainmast, you will be building a ketch, which will generally have the masts placed similarly to your current setup.

On 17/1/2018 at 12:26 PM, Roadmonkeytj said:

Admittedly I originally tried copying a build style then once i figured it out this developed.  The colors are not final and have so far changed twice nor are some of them anything but place holders until i get the color scheme decided on ... As my intent was merchant ship I employed some decals for dummy ports.  I also am not liking the way the galleries?? (Not sure if thats the name the side windows at the stern) tie into the hull ... But quite honestly I haven't found a good solution.

The galleries on the sides are generally called quarter galleries. I think they are looking good, although they might be strutting out a bit too far. But honestly, bow and stern are the hardest parts to make, and I think your work so far is really good.

[Roadmonkeytj]

2 hours ago, Bregir said:

Is this your first age of sail era vessel? Looks really good, with a lot of good details. I really like the use of the old windows, and the overall shape is really nice. Most people struggle with getting such organic shapes.

If anything, your horisontal curve is a bit off, the curve sort of breaking off at the ends. I don't know if that makes any sense, but let me try to "draw" it below. The first is your curve, the second the "real curve", both exaggerated for effect :P

I would go with two masts for a vessel this size, specifically a brig.

I looked at some pictures of brigs and I think you should relocate the foremast to just aft of the foremost gunport and the mainmast between the 5th and the 6th gunport. (Here I am assuming that all the red patches are gunports) Keep in mind that on a brig, the aftmost mast is the mainmast and should be taller. Further, it carries a very large spanker sail.

If you maintain the foremast as the mainmast, you will be building a ketch, which will generally have the masts placed similarly to your current setup.

The galleries on the sides are generally called quarter galleries. I think they are looking good, although they might be strutting out a bit too far. But honestly, bow and stern are the hardest parts to make, and I think your work so far is really good.

As far as the curve I was intending on side rails addressing some of that

There are four working gun ports the others are dummy ports (four in the center ... Not sure if this was historical as only images i find of painted ports is far aft and fore)

I was thinking this was too small to be a brig? Its on small hulls and only two sections but it probably would look ok rigged that way.

Technically this would be my second age of sail Wip although im actually trying to make this more historic looking ... Even though im still not using any specific build plan

My first:

And I finished this one for the game before finishing either of my first two lol

 

[Mesabi]

New ship I've been working on. The idea is it's a mashup of three different ship hulls (as that's what I have on hand) Thoughts?

WIP ship by North White, on Flickr

WIP ship by North White, on Flickr

WIP ship by North White, on Flickr

 

[LM71Blackbird]

Spoiler

51 minutes ago, Mesabi said:

New ship I've been working on. The idea is it's a mashup of three different ship hulls (as that's what I have on hand) Thoughts?

WIP ship by North White, on Flickr

WIP ship by North White, on Flickr

WIP ship by North White, on Flickr

 

 

Pretty neat looking ship so far @Mesabi. My only suggestion would be to angle the bowsprit up a little and make the bow itself stick out just a little bit more with one or two 2x3 inverted slope bricks.

[Maxim I]

This is going to take a while :p

[Garmadon]

3 hours ago, Maxim I said:

This is going to take a while :p

Woot!    That's going to be great - can't wait to see it once it's done! 

[Bregir]

On 23/1/2018 at 12:03 AM, Roadmonkeytj said:

As far as the curve I was intending on side rails addressing some of that

There are four working gun ports the others are dummy ports (four in the center ... Not sure if this was historical as only images i find of painted ports is far aft and fore)

I was thinking this was too small to be a brig? Its on small hulls and only two sections but it probably would look ok rigged that way.

Technically this would be my second age of sail Wip although im actually trying to make this more historic looking ... Even though im still not using any specific build plan

I wouldn't know about the dummy ports, I have to admit, but I think what you have done makes sense.

As to rigging, She could also be a schooner, but you will still have the second mast as the mainmast, and more or less the same placement as I suggested. With the current rigging she would be a ketch, though.

I also think this is already fairly historically correct. :)

I personally often look at pictures for inspiration, but end up building something quite different as the moc takes on its own life. I fact, I have never finished something that really looked like the original inspiration. :P

On 3/2/2018 at 10:44 PM, Mesabi said:

New ship I've been working on. The idea is it's a mashup of three different ship hulls (as that's what I have on hand) Thoughts?

Well, I don't think I have ever heard of a ship made of three different hulls.

What I think you should try is to move away from the entirely flat deck. Those flat decks end up making your ships look a bit oversimplified. I have seen what you can do, and I think you could take your ships to the next level. Ships need to have curves.

8 hours ago, Maxim I said:

This is going to take a while :p

I am really looking forward to seeing the end result here, Maxim! Looks very promising! How will you handle the gunports behind the shrouds, though?

[Darnok]

25 minutes ago, Bregir said:

Ships need to have curves.

[Bregir]

@Drunknok

Exactly. That is exactly what I am saying.

[Darnok]

9 minutes ago, Bregir said:

@Drunknok

Exactly. That is exactly what I am saying.

Old men and their sick minds... you disgust me!

Spoiler

Like, seriously man, what is wrong with you?

Spoiler

Just kidding...

Spoiler

... or am I?

 

 

 

[Roadmonkeytj]

9 hours ago, Maxim I said:

This is going to take a while :p

Im in the same boat as you so to speak ... But im threading wheel hubs lol ive got one mast done just need to finish the other its quite time consuming

 

25 minutes ago, Bregir said:

@Drunknok

Exactly. That is exactly what I am saying.

Now y'all are just being a pair of boobs lmao

 

59 minutes ago, Bregir said:

Well, I don't think I have ever heard of a ship made of three different hulls.

What I think you should try is to move away from the entirely flat deck. Those flat decks end up making your ships look a bit oversimplified. I have seen what you can do, and I think you could take your ships to the next level. Ships need to have curves.

I have to agree with this about the curves lol but i think if you put a raised quarter and raise the forecastle you could keep the flat center and slope both ends together to give an apprarence of curve

 

1 hour ago, Bregir said:

I wouldn't know about the dummy ports, I have to admit, but I think what you have done makes sense.

As to rigging, She could also be a schooner, but you will still have the second mast as the mainmast, and more or less the same placement as I suggested. With the current rigging she would be a ketch, though.

I also think this is already fairly historically correct. :)

I personally often look at pictures for inspiration, but end up building something quite different as the moc takes on its own life. I fact, I have never finished something that really looked like the original inspiration. :P

Well as far as the ship goes ... The current hull was scrapped ... Took a nasty tumble ... Salvaged what I could and its been rebuilt on a friends white hull ... Admittedly the wider hull is much easier to acheive smoother curves ... Im not given up on the small hulls but for now this has been migrated ... Working on a snot rear hull is my challenge ... Will try to get pictures ... Currently I have three ships in wip status ... The brothers in blood, this one which is unnamed and ive been revamping my black pearl.... Maybe if i could focus on just one ? Lol so many new things to try.

[Maxim I]

12 hours ago, Bregir said:

I am really looking forward to seeing the end result here, Maxim! Looks very promising! How will you handle the gunports behind the shrouds, though?

Excellent question :p

My first plan was to keep them visible, but "trapped" behind the shrouds, as it is very hard to keep them playable (+ there is not really a gun behind it, so there is no surplus in opening the gunport).

[Bregir]

6 minutes ago, Maxim I said:

Excellent question :p

My first plan was to keep them visible, but "trapped" behind the shrouds, as it is very hard to keep them playable (+ there is not really a gun behind it, so there is no surplus in opening the gunport).

Normally, you will see the shrouds arranged around the gun ports (or gunports to be placed around the shrouds.) Never seen gun ports directly behind the shrouds, and you are going to be entirely blocking it in here! :P

[Professor Thaum]

28 minutes ago, Maxim I said:

My first plan was to keep them visible, but "trapped" behind the shrouds, as it is very hard to keep them playable (+ there is not really a gun behind it, so there is no surplus in opening the gunport).

not really a gun behind it !!???

WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT !!! A lego built that is not fully playable !!! A one which would be only a stage set !!!

CROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOK !!!!

Swindler !!!! It's despicable !!    You painter !

 

Any resemblance to other builders, living or dead, is purely coincidental.

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