Shipwrights Guild Hall (WIPs, feedback, and advice)

[Bodi]

@Mesabi I agree with Bregir's and Maxim's advices, and the following may be just useless repetition of what have already been said by them. 

The gun deck of a two-decker should be closer to waterline, try to build from the rear part of the second prefab hull and go up progressively towards the bow and stern, by so doing, we should be able to keep the upper bow/stern pieces.

Now, you should have a curved gun deck, build another deck above this one, this should allow us to dispose about 20guns on two decks (20 with 4 stud interval between gunports, 24/25 with 3-stud interval). 

If you want to stick to the white/black/red color scheme, i want to suggest you to try balck-red-black combo above the waterline, and keep the white prefab hulls.

[Bregir]

51 minutes ago, Maxim I said:

She has 5 midsecs, the same as Margot and that one is a class 7 :)

We will see what the outcome is, but I tend to agree with Maxim

51 minutes ago, Maxim I said:

Also, don't just claim it is a 74 gun vessel...

I think @Mesabi just meant that that is his inspiration for the overall look of the ship, though, but I agree that she doesn't look ready for 74 guns!

And Mesabi, if you intend to have more than one gundeck, I would agree with Maxim that you should add guns on the lower deck too. (And some curvature! Real ships have curves! )

[Darnok]

Sounds like I am forked when it comes to warships then - I have maybe a dozen cannons, in terms of firepower that does not even show up on the radar of "proper" ships.

 

While we are at it: what is a reasonable level of cannons for a medium sized trading ship (about 50x20 studs in footprint)?

Edited October 25, 2017 by Drunknok

[Spud The Viking]

35 minutes ago, Drunknok said:

While we are at it: what is a reasonable level of cannons for a medium sized trading ship (about 50x20 studs in footprint)?

Trading vessels are less heavily armed, as you probably well know. I'm no expert but I'd say 10 guns would be appropriate on the upper deck, leaving the deck below to be filled with cargo.

[Bregir]

@Drunknok:

I have 5 official lego cannons or so. So I mainly use brickbuild ones (or closed gunports ), which have the advantage of having a more realistic scale to a minifig.

As for a reasonable number of cannons, I think that is all up to you - however, it should be reflected in the stats you assign. I have a class 5 merchant ship with 5 guns aside, but some might have none, or more. So that is all up to you

[Mesabi]

5 hours ago, Spud The Viking said:

Looks like a large merchant ship @Mesabi, maybe a galleon?

I wouldn't limit yourself to red/white/black in the future. Yes, it's our colours, but I'm using yellow and black like Oleon (and it's historical to Britain) and plenty of other Corries use a variety of different colours.

Well, it's supposed to be a warship, but these are just the first few decks.

As for colours, Red, White, and Black are just the colours for this ship. I have a yellow and black one back home, and I'm also working on one's colours that are black and orange.

4 hours ago, Bregir said:

A quick suggestion on top of what I wrote earlier, Mesabi.

"Real ships have curves!"

I would suggest building in some curvature of the hull. You can do so by maintaining the current bow and stern height (Although I would still suggest lowering the lower part of the cabin), but lowering the middle a brick or two in height, and gently sloping it towards the stern and bow. The current, very straight lines makes her look more like modern steel ships.

A good example of a simple but effective curve can be found here:

And if you really feel like experimenting, widening her a bit in the middle, and perhaps giving her some tumblehome, could add even more to her elegance.

Hmmm.... Good idea. As usual of course. I'll try that out when I get a chance to work on her more, which won't be till monday. I like what I have so far, but I had a great idea, so I'm going to change it anyways.

3 hours ago, Maxim I said:

Sorry mate, I'll bummer right now, she is one midsec too short for a class 8 :)

She has 5 midsecs, the same as Margot and that one is a class 7 :)

Class 8 vessels should have 6 midsections.

Also, don't just claim it is a 74 gun vessel... If she is, then we need to see 37 guns at both sides. Ofcourse not all of them need to be molded guns and some of them can be replaced by closed gunports, but we need to see 37 entities at both sides...

Now: 37 guns at both sides, that means 15 guns at every level (considering a class 8 is a big two decker) and 7 guns on the deck, making 30 + 30 + 14.

I am not really seeing how you will cram this all into this vessel, especially since you already have one useless level (the complete white hull). If you would have put already some guns on that level, your dreams would be already more realistic.

What I mostly fear is that you put 2 (or 3 :o ) complete levels above your hull, making your vessel a square with sails instead of a rectangle/saucisse with sails

 

Is the midsection rule official? I'm making her fairly tall, so that would be my claim to her being a class 8. 

And oy pal, I ain't claiming she's a 74 gun! I said I want her to look like one. That's just the style I'm using. 

And this is just the second draft. I'm going to break her up when I get back home and start again.

2 hours ago, Bodi said:

@Mesabi I agree with Bregir's and Maxim's advices, and the following may be just useless repetition of what have already been said by them. 

The gun deck of a two-decker should be closer to waterline, try to build from the rear part of the second prefab hull and go up progressively towards the bow and stern, by so doing, we should be able to keep the upper bow/stern pieces.

Now, you should have a curved gun deck, build another deck above this one, this should allow us to dispose about 20guns on two decks (20 with 4 stud interval between gunports, 24/25 with 3-stud interval). 

If you want to stick to the white/black/red color scheme, i want to suggest you to try balck-red-black combo above the waterline, and keep the white prefab hulls.

I was kinda going for a full hulled, but the more I think about it, that's a bad idea as all my ships are waterline. 

I was going to curve the next deck, but If I lower the gun deck a level, I'll have to curve the second deck. 

[Legostone]

2 minutes ago, Drunknok said:

Sounds like I am forked when it coems to warships then - I have maybe a dozen cannons, in terms of firepower that does not even show up on the radar of "proper" ships.

 

While we are at it: what is a reasonable level of cannons for a medium sized trading ship (about 50x20 studs in footprint)?

 

Well, there is a reason many of us a using custom build cannons nowadays - better for scale and cheaper than the orginals.

I have about 100 of the small ones built (24 left from my old SOTL, 24 in my Xebec Frigate, 22 in my larger Frigate, 20 in my smaller frigate, 14 in my currently largest merchant and a couple spares in other vessels). 

 

For a 50 stud long merchant vessel 8-14 guns should be good, but it obviously depends heavily on the style you are going for; an East Indiaman (New Terraman) could have a cargo deck with a gundeck above, thus more guns than a flat decked vessel...

[Bregir]

2 hours ago, Mesabi said:

I was going to curve the next deck, but If I lower the gun deck a level, I'll have to curve the second deck. 

A curved deck on top of a non-curved one will look strange. The degree of curvature can vary, but it should be consistent with the other decks.

2 hours ago, Mesabi said:

And this is just the second draft. I'm going to break her up when I get back home and start again.

That is how I often work - try something, then break it down when I realise I have to rework something deep in the hull...

Speaking of breaking down to build up:

I am working on a gun-brig (class 3, I think) to try out the old small hulls. Here is a wip: (Sorry for the dodgy pictures)

I am quite happy with curve, tumblehome and stern, and probably won't change much by now ;) But C&C is always welcome, if nothing else then for the next in line at the shipyards!

[Kolonialbeamter]

2 hours ago, Legostone said:

I have about 100 of the small ones built

Finest example of green warmongering 

12 minutes ago, Bregir said:

I am working on a gun-brig (class 3, I think) to try out the old small hulls. Here is a wip:

Woah, loving the design  Too bad that big reddish-brown slope 'cuts' through the sand-green stripe. But then... just put an anchor there and you can explain it with a reinforced, more 'scratch resisting' structure (you often see that on larger ships).

I'd go for a one-stud diameter bowsprit though.

[Legostone]

Just now, Kolonialbeamter said:

Finest example of green warmongering 

... coming from the faction that has like 5 SOTLs including a first Rate...

[Kolonialbeamter]

Just now, Legostone said:

... coming from the faction that has like 5 SOTLs including a first Rate...

Pointing fingers... classic greenies 

[Bregir]

3 minutes ago, Kolonialbeamter said:

Pointing fingers... classic greenies 

I am going to agree with the socalled warmongering greenies this time, though ;)

Assigning that first rate to the squadron stationed at the Corlander border has raised some questions in Belson... :P Sending it off to Mardier was probably a sound decision! :P

[Kolonialbeamter]

Just now, Bregir said:

Assigning that first rate to the squadron stationed at the Corlander border has raised some questions in Belson... :P

Like you Corries don't have powerful ships stationed close to the border with your main rival... but then, maybe you do 

[Bregir]

Just now, Kolonialbeamter said:

Like you Corries don't have powerful ships stationed close to the border with your main rival... but then, maybe you do 

We don't flaunt them! :P

[Kolonialbeamter]

Just now, Bregir said:

We don't flaunt them! :P

Good call - the greenies would be outraged and start pointing fingers 

[kurigan]

@Bregir I would love this design, more as a schooner than a brig, of not for those pre-fabs. They're just so unnecessary here and they just brings the waterline down too low. She looks as though she got hung up on a sand bar at high tide and has wait for it to come back in. Where your chain plate is now, is about where the waterline should be... Ah who am I kidding! You don't care. Have fun mate!

[Mesabi]

Figurehead for a ship I'm working on. I won't be able to finish her until Thanksgivingish (when I have a week to work at my house) But since I'm home ATM, I was able to build the figurehead, and start piling pieces for later.

Destroying Angel figurehead by North White, on Flickr

She's called the Destroying Angel. Thoughts? Does it need more separators to seem more awesome?

[Bodi]

@Mesabi Nice Garmadon figurehead, are you going to use the separators too?

[Bregir]

@kurigan Why would you think I don't care? :)

I very much agree with your comments. The old hulls put the vessel too high in the water and makes the proportions come out somewhat skewed. And where I to build a more realistic waterline model, I would never go for this approach. However, my objective here was to try the old pre-fabs for a realistic-ish vessel suitable for the game. And I think I have achieved a reasonable result. And to that I can add that it is fairly sturdy. :)

@Kolonialbeamter

I will consider reworking the bowsprit. I agree it looks too heavy for the vessel.

@Mesabi

Interesting! I suppose you are going for wings, right? I think I would add a few more "feathers" on each side, and then I would suggest you construct it so that the wings can be swept backwards, around the bow of the vessel. Note though, that for such a large figure head, it has to be a large ship! :D (but if the wings double as headrails, it would make sense)

 

[Professor Thaum]

On 25/10/2017 at 6:39 PM, Legostone said:

For a 50 stud long merchant vessel 8-14 guns should be good, but it obviously depends heavily on the style you are going for; an East Indiaman (New Terraman) could have a cargo deck with a gundeck above, thus more guns than a flat decked vessel...

right : The indiaman were able to take on up to 28 guns for the more powerful of them.

 

@Mesabi : the figure head looks very huge you'd better go with minifig wings (like those in chima sets)

Edited October 27, 2017 by Professor Thaum

[Mesabi]

Alright, got some more work on the Second draft of the Judgement. Took a quick photo before leaving for class.

Judgement progress by North White, on Flickr

It's a bit blurry, but I was running late. I'll post some better ones when I'm back in my room. I've tried to take the suggestions into account. The center is set a brick lower than the front and back, the bottom deck now is a gun deck, and the second deck now slopes.

Thoughts everyone?

[Bregir]

Gunboat WIP:

[Darnok]

@Bregir: How did you get the curvature of the hull so smooth?

[Bregir]

5 minutes ago, Drunknok said:

@Bregir: How did you get the curvature of the hull so smooth?

Are you referring to the upper hull (the brick bricks)?

I have fastened them in the back and in the front. The force acting on them bends the sides like that. By using short plates (of varying length) I give it some flexibility and can more or less control where it bends how much. (The shorter the plates holding the brick bricks, the sharper the curve). I will see if I can take a photo of it tomorrow from above :)

Interesting to see the development, @Mesabi

It's a bit hard to make it out currently, but judging by the black line, I'd say you have the curve a bit off. Let me try to explain with some home made graphical aides ;)

It seems to me that your current curvature goes like this:

'' '' '' '' '' - ____- '' '' '' '' ''

What you should probably be going for is more like this:

'' '----_________--------' '' ''

where the bow is to the left.

Do you understand what I mean? :)

[kurigan]

@Bregir

Alright then: 

 

I like this one too. May I suggest a few things though? 

 

First, I appreciate the sand green lower portion; looks like oxidized copper. If you used a combination of plates on end and those same slopes in a manner similar to what I did on Bumblebee, you could make the curves match, in theory. I've wanted to do something like this, with the sand green on my own ships, but never come across enough sand green, anything. 

 

Also, if you use more than one fulcrum you can make the bows bluffer than the stern. From my experience with this style, it doesn't appear you've gone beyond the natural tolerance built into the bricks, not even close really. You could get much more curve without damaging the bricks which would help up forward. On that note, using the brick-bricks to look like planking was clever. 

 

With a bluffer bow you can also shrink the cutwater to a single stud wide, which IMHO would just look better. 

 

If you do get those top-down views I'd love to see your gun and how it's mounted. I might have an idea or two for ya there too.