Bregir

Shipwrights Guild Hall (WIPs, feedback, and advice)

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@Jacob Nion Well, I actually went looking all the same, but didn't really find anything. In the past I've seen them but can't recall them on anything "creditable"; mostly just paintings and such. As I understand it, they are supposed to be a holdover from when war ships were really just boats with little wooden castles built on top from which men would jab at one another with pikes across the gap. Having turrets hanging out over the water gave an advantage in extending reach over the enemy deck. At some point someone though they looked pretty neat and started embellishing them. In time they became mostly decorative, kind of like the side galleries on Prins Willim or Kalmar Nyckel. They don't do much but look neat. Of course without reference it's all speculative. 

 

As for the possibilities, they don't seem very useful for guns. Unless they were huge, there wouldn't seem to be enough room to give a gun a wider arc of fire then just putting them on swivels out an open deck. Armoring them to add to their usefulness would add to another inherent problem; top hamper. That's the amount of weight a ship must support above the water. It's a key factor in the stability of a vessel. Perhaps not so much in BoBS or PotC, but in actuality ship designer needs to be careful about such things. Several ships have famously sank in calm seas due to metacentric imbalance. 

 

@Legostone First off, you're absolutely right about the rails. Keep them low. It looks slick and, see the above, is a good move historically. 

 

Secondly, I've created a monster with the rigging challenge. Great Job once again! 

 

@gedren_y That's a heck of a build. Not sure I'm a fan of the color scheme. She seems extremely long for her width. That whole section up forward that isn't pierced for guns, seems unnecessary. It's an ambitious build and I respect that. Don't know what to suggest for a rig. This long you could accommodate as many as 4 masts. Were you thinking square rig? 

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@kurigan, I was thinking square plan. Four masts will likely be the right number, but the number of sails; their width; and whether I can build her at full sail all have to be considered. I think I may have worked out some of her rigging connection points needs.

As to the fore section without guns, to merge the width of the gun deck section and the prefab hull required a different interior structure where my gun port design wouldn't work. The story logic will be that she was built from the hulls of three, possibly four, battle damaged ships, as a cost saving measure in a time of war. The amidships is so wide because I was trying to be as realistic as I could with her buoyancy. There are 32 gun ports on each side.

The color is just temporary, and much of the gold has already been changed. New requirements for LDD builds means rendering, and that affects coloring to a degree. I am trying out a few ideas.

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So, a quick progress update on my Indiaman:
32233269324_b40fd6da9e_z.jpg

Rigging is mostly finished, and I started on what's my plan for the sails. Well, better say, I added the two sails I planned to re-use for this ship - I still had a pair of courses from my old frigate which weren't tall enough, but they suffice as rolled up sails. I know not everyone here will be a fan of that, but it saves me at least an hour in construction time (the courses are some of the most annoying sails to make due to their size) as well as cloth (I'm sadly getting low on my tan cloth - I think after this ship I'll have to hope the store where I get it still has the same colour left). I'll be doing something similar for the topgallants (although I'll actually make them fit, as I don't have any sails in the right dimensions left, so why not?), but all other sails will be presented as usual.
The rigging isn't quite perfect anymore, as this string isn't quite as good as I had hoped (I need to find a seller still selling the string I was using before - soo much better) and it has loosened up a bit (I can still pick it up by the tops, but it is scarier than with other ships of this size).
Hull is done, the only thing I might still add are some small details on the deck. I hope to finish this one over the course of next weekend.

In the left corner you see a small hint at what is coming up next (although there might be a couple other ships in between - I haven't built a cutter or sloop in a while), a small 12 gun brig based on the HMS Interceptor (and yes, La Raya Venonosa, my good old Frigate is gone now, I felt like it had to go).

Also, here is my desk filled up to the brim with all ships that currently fit on it:
32952045581_ae025496e1_z.jpg
Oscuridad (my Xebec) is missing from the picture as you might notice, that one still exists, but it just didn't fit on the desk anymore. I also have a couple more WIPs sitting around, but I'm not ready to show most of those. One of them is the Ship of the Line I started in November (it still stands, no progress has been made as I had other ships to build), and another one is this Frigate hull prototype I had built at BMA with the parts I picked up there and in a Lego Store. It'll either get used as the follow up for my old experiment "organic ship" or get scrapped if I really can't find the inspiration (but I hope it'll be the first of the two options myself)
32922830182_e78a303914_z.jpg

32922831502_c6cea07098_z.jpg

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Your india man looks sweet, although when I here india man my mind jumps to the 17th century with the tall aft castles and such. But that just me being dutch I think.

Are you planning to start a navy of your own? looks like you are mass producing ships :P 

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4 hours ago, Bart said:

Your india man looks sweet, although when I here india man my mind jumps to the 17th century with the tall aft castles and such. But that just me being dutch I think.

Are you planning to start a navy of your own? looks like you are mass producing ships :P 

 

One of those old style Indiaman is certainly on my list - maybe I'll use the Batavia as an inspiration (which I'll be visiting soon), but this style certainly existed (the example by Kurigan, Friendship of Salem, is actually similar to this one as I just noticed - similar size to a frigate, no gunports on the lower deck and the option to carry 14 guns (well, I have 14 + 2 chasers) if needed).

Well, currently I have 6 finished and 7 WIPs, but in total I've finished 23 ships so far, so 17 have been torn down already. Most of these are licensed by others though, although I get some percentage of profit from all of them :D

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It's been quite some time since I've posted any progress and here goes.

Overall, I think I'm in a good place when it comes to the overall design and shape. I've started to add some details to the deck to ensure that everything will fit in place. I still need to find room for a capstan and another hatch. I also need to buy some tan tiles and plates to finish off the deck in a few places as well as some other miscellaneous pieces throughout. I'm just about ready to start on the rigging, and I'll hopefully have some time to finish the blocks this week.

33093764776_8c3b5c1d46_c.jpgBrig WIP by Capt. Genaro, on Flickr

33008160511_bd0dfc099d_c.jpgBrig WIP by Capt. Genaro, on Flickr

Spoiler

32752884420_9139b35da3_c.jpgBrig WIP by Capt. Genaro, on Flickr

33008168141_50465851f8_c.jpgBrig WIP by Capt. Genaro, on Flickr

32290048884_273210f08d_c.jpgBrig WIP by Capt. Genaro, on Flickr

 

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Looking good! How did you angle the Main mast btw?

I guess those yellow inverted slopes around the lower stern are temporary? I currently don't have anything to criticise, but I would really like to know how stable it is - it doesn't look that stable to me at least...

 

Anyone looking for a challenge?

post-1071-0-52332800-1404480042.jpg

Edited by Legostone

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 @Kolonialbeamter: Interesting! Do I spy a likeness to the Triton in overall design? Will be looking forward to seeing more.

@Legostone: It is hard to keep up with you! :pir-tongue: I haven't had time to comment yet, and you have already posted it! :pir-grin: Looking nice, nonetheless.

And nicely taut rigging! :pir-wink: On my 18 gun sloop, I can lift her by the topmast cross-tress too, but I doubt I will test it by the topgallants. :pir-tongue:

@Jacob Nion: You spurred my curiousity! I hadn't seen the silent mary, but went and checked her out to figure what you were talking about. As to your questions, I think it is an original idea. At least, I don't remember seeing anything like it. Sometimes, sterngalleries would have something along the same lines on corners and such, but never as towers like so. And as someone else said, placing a cannon larger than a swiviel in any of them would probably be problematic. Luckily, ships in bobs do not necessarily need to adhere to such quibbles! Would definitely echo your wish to see something inspired by it.

@gedren_y: It's going to be huuuuuuuuge! If possible, I would agree with Kurigan that it would be typical to have guns along the entire length. Your bow is looking pretty good to me. You don't actually have to build her up more, other than adding some headrails - that lower section could be the head. The forecastle typically doesn't extend all the way forward. (although I would add about three more of those slopes to extend the forecastle further forward.

If I were you, I would put a bit more work in the stern/cabin area. Look up some pictures to see how it is typically built. In any case, I will be looking forward to seeing how you solve that.

As to rigging, I think a four master could be fun. Either a barque (all masts but the aftmost one square rigged, with the last being fore and aft rigged) or a barquantine (foremast square rigged, the rest fore and aft rigged).

@Captain Genaro: Oh my, she is shaping up beautifully! I am really loving how she is coming along, and I think the shape is very near perfect. I will be very much looking forward to seeing more! As LS, I am not sure what feedback to offer. You already have some beautiful details ready, like that ship's bell (consider it stolen...). My only concern is her structural strength, as it seems you only have hinge plates at deck height. I think this will prove problematic when yous tart rigging her, depending on how you are going to construct the chains. Or will the shrouds be anchored inside the sides?

13 hours ago, Legostone said:

Anyone looking for a challenge?

post-1071-0-52332800-1404480042.jpg

Uuuuh, exciting! I did do a test a while back, trying to use hinges along the side of the vessel, so that I could get those curves, but for some reason I gave up again. For something like this, I think that would be necessary to get the right lines.

Can you let your own challenge slide, I wonder? ;)

Also, what I really wanted to post was an update of my sloop :P

33131975355_f4d31153ee_c.jpg

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Some sweet WIP's here :D

Time for a prefab hull wip :laugh:

After modifying the LOTR Corsair and Carribean Clipper, it is time for a more realistic/beautifull Queen Anne's Revenge.

32304859024_1e154f3e61_c.jpg

The AQAR (short for Adapted QAR) has now around 38 guns and will probably end with 50 guns.

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@Bregir, I am not familiar with the terms you are using for ship rigging. I have in front of me a drawing of the 1851 U.S. clipper ship Flying Cloud. I think the size of my SOL will merit a similar sail plan, but am unsure that I can build that with sails unfurled in LDD.

The stern is still undergoing design work. Merging the angles, as well as continuing the color scheme lines. I've had to adjust the level of the slopes, inserting and removing plates, to get a nice flow. There will be no interior, and the captain's cabin may only get some token items obscuring any window views.

I have also decided to not use gold. I'm planning on some railing on the main deck and quarterdeck, but it will be low. I may put some small guns on deck once I have a handle on the rigging, but given that she already has 64 gun ports, they might not be necessary. I could make railing on the bow higher to help bridge the sections.

As I stated earlier, her in-story justification is that she was built out of multiple damaged hulls, so she will have places where her deck doesn't look well put together. There are structural reasons for that, but it should help in her acceptability to those who favor historical ship designs. This novice is trying.

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@Bregir - I'm wondering myself too. I'm not saying anything yet, but I might try it once I reduced the amount of current WIPs from the current 5 to 3, either by scrapping some of them or finally finishing them...

@gedren_y That layout works, it is basically ship rigged. If you decide on adding a fourth mast, I would advise either having the first 3 being identical in height or getting (slightly! 1 to 3 studs is enough) taller towards the 3rd mast with the 4th mast remaining the smallest.

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12 minutes ago, Legostone said:

@Bregir - I'm wondering myself too. I'm not saying anything yet, but I might try it once I reduced the amount of current WIPs from the current 5 to 3, either by scrapping some of them or finally finishing them...

Probably a good idea :pir-wink:

10 minutes ago, Legostone said:

@gedren_y That layout works, it is basically ship rigged. If you decide on adding a fourth mast, I would advise either having the first 3 being identical in height or getting (slightly! 1 to 3 studs is enough) taller towards the 3rd mast with the 4th mast remaining the smallest.

I would agree with making the three first identical in height, should you go for four masts. However, should you decide to make them differ in height, I would make the second mast the tallest, it being the mainmast... :pir-wink:

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2 minutes ago, Bregir said:

Probably a good idea :pir-wink:

Yeah... But I would bet that I'll start another ship before getting close to finishing more than 2 of these...

2 minutes ago, Bregir said:

I would agree with making the three first identical in height, should you go for four masts. However, should you decide to make them differ in height, I would make the second mast the tallest, it being the mainmast... :pir-wink:

 

True, messup on my part there. Somehow though the second last mast would be the Main for a 4 masted ship, but you are right.

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The Flying Cloud does have the second mast as the tallest, but also has triangular sails between the first and second masts. I think there is an additional beam in there, but the image doesn't clearly show it. The rear, perpendicular sail seems to be on the third mast. For my ship, I may have to give it its own mast. I do need to know how that kind of sail looks furled, though.

I am also thinking about mounting rowboats on her. That section without gun ports may come in handy.

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10 minutes ago, gedren_y said:

but also has triangular sails between the first and second masts

Those are staysails, hung on the stays (rigging holding up the masts), so there is no "beam" in there, I promise you! :pir-wink:

10 minutes ago, gedren_y said:

The rear, perpendicular sail seems to be on the third mast.

That would be a gaff sail, most likely. Sometimes called a spanker.

Try to look up sailplan on wikipedia. From there, there are links to many different links to understanding rigging. You can look up barque or barquantine too, in their main topics, should the small diagrams be unsufficient. I find it a very good source, and after wikipedia gives you the terms, you can always look up pictures on google :pir-blush:

In general, if we say something you don't understand, I recommend looking it up on wikipedia. Even if your first language isn't english, it is often a better solution than translation. Personally, at least, getting the danish version of a naval term is close to useless to me :pir-tongue: Especially compared to the pictures and explanations of wikipedia or google. :pir-blush:

6 hours ago, gedren_y said:

This novice is trying.

And noone is saying you shouldn't, or that your efforts are not good enough. :pir-wink:

I like your alternative approach, and enjoy following the projects of you and others, novice or expert (whatever that means) . Our feedback only represents suggestions, and we may have a tendency to seek realistic solutions when giving advice, but that shouldn't stop you from doing something more fantasy-y :pir-grin:

I hope you do not feel anyone is belittling your attempts, patronizing you, or similar. I assure you (and everyone else) that is not the intention, even if some of us sound a bit geeky at time! :pir-blush: :pir-tongue:

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@Bregir Stunning looking ship - smooth lines - yeah! Great work on 'tying down' the bowsprit. I only think your (well, the ship's) mizzen mast is a bit too tall. Oh, I hope you manage to capture that same light effect again when you do the final shots - it looks kinda majestic.

@Captain Genaro Great looking brig, love how you angled the deck :thumbup:

@Maxim I Niiiice! Just... are you going Sea Rats?

@Legostone Is that plan from a fantasy ship of some sort? Those lines look awkwardly exaggerated. And those quarterdeck's gun-ports make my head spin around, especially in relation to the (side)galleries :wacko:

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@Captain Genaro I'm really liking this new direction. I'm seeing a lot of Speedy's influence in there. A windlass might help you save on space where hatch ways and such are concerned. It'd be entirely appropriate for her size and apparent period as well. Can't say I'm a fan of either gun design. Though I'm working on developing the skills to do a revamp, The Foundry already has a few great ideas you may want to try out. Carronades would also be a great space saver and a completely appropriate armament for a gun brig as such. Something about that blue and yellow color scheme just pops too, doesn't it? 

 

@Legostone Well we've seen success in this style with his cutter Pride of Poseidon 

 

 I don't think a Felucca like that is impossible but would likely require a jump up in scale. It seems to me that a technique like Maydayartist's for Revenge or Know your Piece's for his Schooner  would do it the most justice. 

 

Jacob Nion: 

That was me... :wink: 

 

Bregir: 

She's coming along nicely. Looks like you have the gunports worked out nicely. 

 

Garden_y: 

5 hours ago, Bregir said:

I hope you do not feel anyone is belittling your attempts, patronizing you, or similar. I assure you (and everyone else) that is not the intention, even if some of us sound a bit geeky at time! :pir-blush: :pir-tongue:

 What he said. :pir-grin:

 

 

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@Kolonialbeamter 
I've since found out the upper holes aren't gunports - they are supposedly gunners windows (and I guess one could also shoot a musket through them), something I haven't heard of before, but it certainly makes sense. Makes the ship a bit less interesting though - I might try it with the initial interpretation/similar, although I now feel like it is a bit too wide. Here is a model someone has built following the plans shown earlier.

@kurigan
If I had the amount of reddish brown tiles needed I would really like to try out MayDayArtists technique for a decently sized ship... Don't remind me, I'm already out of space:D

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Thanks for all the help.

7 hours ago, gedren_y said:

This novice is trying.

Ignore this. It was an attempt at self-depreciation, owing to my lack of familiarity with the terminology. This, like sarcasm, falls flat without an emoticon, or something, to denote tone.

I try for a semblance of logic, if not outright realism, in my builds.

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On ‎2‎/‎26‎/‎2017 at 5:11 PM, Legostone said:

Looking good! How did you angle the Main mast btw?

I guess those yellow inverted slopes around the lower stern are temporary? I currently don't have anything to criticise, but I would really like to know how stable it is - it doesn't look that stable to me at least...

I'll take some pictures later this week to show the mast design and the interior. She's actually quite sturdy and can be picked up by the side ladders without problem. The deck holds the sides in place and the internal structure is simple, yet effective.

Yes, the yellow and grey on the hull are temporary.

14 hours ago, Bregir said:

like that ship's bell (consider it stolen...). My only concern is her structural strength, as it seems you only have hinge plates at deck height. I think this will prove problematic when yous tart rigging her, depending on how you are going to construct the chains. Or will the shrouds be anchored inside the sides?

She's very sturdy. I'll take a picture this weekend, but some of the hinge plates have the 2x2 tops for the deck to rest on and for supports to be connected to. In addition, some of the supports are actually connected to the side of the ship. If you look towards the stern, you can see the edge of a 2x4 LBG tile. That is used as part of the ship's internal support and connects it to the rest of the ship.

As for the chains, they'll go though the ship. They might go a little lower than is quite right, but it'll work.

Your sloop looks fantastic. The colors are unique, but they work well together. I'm very glad to see your experiment with smaller gun ports is working out so well, and the rigging is coming along nicely.

12 hours ago, Maxim I said:

After modifying the LOTR Corsair and Carribean Clipper, it is time for a more realistic/beautifull Queen Anne's Revenge.

She looks like an absolute monster. I would suggest keeping the color scheme constant between the decks, but that could just be a personal preference. If you haven't already, I'd suggest adding a side ladder, too.

5 hours ago, kurigan said:

I'm really liking this new direction. I'm seeing a lot of Speedy's influence in there. A windlass might help you save on space where hatch ways and such are concerned. It'd be entirely appropriate for her size and apparent period as well. Can't say I'm a fan of either gun design. Though I'm working on developing the skills to do a revamp, The Foundry already has a few great ideas you may want to try out. Carronades would also be a great space saver and a completely appropriate armament for a gun brig as such. Something about that blue and yellow color scheme just pops too, doesn't it? 

I didn't have the Speedy in mind when building her, but given the amount of time I've spent learning about that brig, it wouldn't surprise me if the Speedy influenced my design. A windlass would work. I rather wanted a capstan, but space might force me to reconsider. The guns are both old designs and are mostly placeholders for now. Carronades would be a great addition, largely due to the lack of space, and I might go ahead and add a few to the bow and stern where space is most limited. I'm glad you like the color scheme as much as I do. I've always thought a ship would look great with dark-blue accents.

 

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Hi there,

I wonder if you guys have a technique to solidify a long series of 1x1 round bricks use in the masts.

@kurigan

(I am a big fan of your work!) maybe you have a trick since from what I see you are using 1x1 round bricks like that and it seems your ships are pretty solid!

Thanks guys, happy to join your community!
Jean, Québec, Canada

Edited by bed007

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@bed007

While my favourite techique uses technic connectors, round 1x1s certainly work. Best (and easiest) solution is using flex tubes (hose 3mm rigid), but those are sadly quite expensive. Another option would be reinforcing them by using a piece of String (internally), which works quite well, but is sometimes difficult to get to work well. A third option that would be much sturdy but not that popular with those not wanting to use third party parts would be using any other kind of 3mm tube (metal or other stuff). 

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@Legostone : thanks for your reply. I indeed use techic connectors for the boom but I am missing parts for the rest and I have plenty of 1x1 round bricks! I though of the string inside the brick.. I'll give it a try but the string pression must be quite high to get a solid result. Any hint using the string (type, fixing strategy, etc) ?

 

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I am more or less in agreement with Legostone, although I would be very careful with metal, as it can easily damage the bricks.

A third (/fourth?) solution would be simply not reinforcing them. :pir-tongue: In this build:

I didn't use any internal reinforcement for its masts. Instead, I had it firmly set in place by the standing rigging (shrouds and stays) and that actually hold it quite well in place. Of course, if you apply any horisontal pressure on the middle of the mast, it will easily collapse (which did happen a few times while I was rigging her), but after it was all in place, it was quite sturdy.

Also, welcome! :pir-wink:

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@bed007 Welcome aboard mate!

 

While I've done masts with out internal support, Bumblebee, and successfully relied on the tension of the rigging to stiffen them, I usually use 1/8" dowel from the hobby store in lieu of Lego bars. I'd use Lego bars, wands, umbrella stands, flex tub, etc. if they were more affordable and available in my collection, but they can break the bank when you're on a $0 budget. For only a few cents I can get 3' of dowel and cut it to exactly the length I need, not to mention that I've had them sitting around for years anyway. The only trouble with going with bare 3062b is that they don't hold up very well under sheer force. They'll hold up a sail and stay in place but can be a bother if you have to move your model around often.

 

@Bregir That's cause you're not using a block and tackle, like dead or bull's eyes, to increase tension mate; been trying to sell you on the idea. I know no one really likes my 4624 dead eyes but 4265c makes a handy bull's eye. Of course if you're gonna pull on the shrouds like that, you'll need chains to anchor them to something more than the channels.

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