Shipwrights Guild Hall (WIPs, feedback, and advice)

[kurigan]

22 hours ago, Umbra-Manis said:

@Bregir @kurigan

Thanks for the help!

No worries. I like the changes.

[Legostone]

I have changed my mind about making sails, I'm making them now. I decided to try out if some of the bigger square sails (topgallants and tops) from La Raya Venenosa would fit this ship, and they are quite a good fit. And as I've already decided on remaking the masts and rigging on that one quite soon, it isn't much of an issue for me removing the old sails from it. 

Next couple sails will be the remaining square sails.

 

Edit: Bookmark for next ship

Edited January 28, 2017 by Legostone

[Sir Stig]

Looking very good. The sails really adds the last flair.

I am not a native shipbuilder, however I have been trying to get something going. Advice on how to proceed here? (I am going to change the bowsprit(? The front of the ship), and because of lack of bricks I have to replace the round 2x2 and the 1x4 black arches:

It is supposed to be a 4A (Cold Heart bought at an auction some time ago)

Edited January 27, 2017 by Sir Stig

[Bregir]

@Umbra-Manis: I agree - it looks much more harmonic now! I would suggest changing the bowsprit to a 1x1 too, as it it looking a bit clumsy for now. Otherwise, looking good!

@Legostone: I think that colourscheme is absolutely fantastic, and those headrails are looking fabulous. Your topmasts and topgallantmasts does appear to be sagging a bit foreward, but that might just be an illusion. Also, I would probably leave a little air between the sails and the lower yards. It looks a little odd when it entirely covers the space between yards.

@Sir Stig: Good to see a new face here! I think that is definitely going somewhere. Size looks about right for a 4A, and she appears to be fairly well armed! The thing in the bow you are talking about is called the beakhead, and could need an adjustment. Are you working by pure inspiration, or do you have a specific type in mind? Or even a specific vessel? (Picture, plan, etc) Considering the size and overhang, plus a considerable beakhead, I think I would suggest you look up some pictures of xebeks for inspiration. I find that a few pictures for reference can be very helpful, even if maintaining considerable artistic license. I would try to avoid making her stern any higher, and probably leave the gundeck open, that is, not have a deck above the guns, but it depends on where you want to go. If you are thinking a carrack or caravel, things look a little different from for a xebec.

[Sir Stig]

18 minutes ago, Bregir said:

Good to see a new face here! I think that is definitely going somewhere. Size looks about right for a 4A, and she appears to be fairly well armed! The thing in the bow you are talking about is called the beakhead, and could need an adjustment. Are you working by pure inspiration, or do you have a specific type in mind? Or even a specific vessel? (Picture, plan, etc) Considering the size and overhang, plus a considerable beakhead, I think I would suggest you look up some pictures of xebeks for inspiration. I find that a few pictures for reference can be very helpful, even if maintaining considerable artistic license. I would try to avoid making her stern any higher, and probably leave the gundeck open, that is, not have a deck above the guns, but it depends on where you want to go. If you are thinking a carrack or caravel, things look a little different from for a xebec.

Pure inspiration, mixed with impressions of what I've seen, trying to weld in some of the advices I've read here. I really wanted to try and make the prefab hull work, but widen it a bit, while maintaining sleek lines throughout.

Making the gun deck open as a carrack, solves a lot of my issues, and presents me with a new angle I had not thought of. It also set me free from thinking about how I should proceed with the stern. However, looking at the carrack designs, I think the hull lends itself more to that shape. I also wanted to give her a vicious appearance that fits her name and history (price from the pirate purge). Hence the experimentation on the beakhead. Is it frowned upon to make an inbetween version of a xebec and a carrack? Will it blend?

[Bregir]

8 minutes ago, Sir Stig said:

Is it frowned upon to make an inbetween version of a xebec and a carrack? Will it blend?

Nothing is frowned upon, I would say! And I think they may blend rather well, in fact. I would suggest you try giving the gun deck a bit of a curve, raising the guns at each end a plate or two in height. That might make it easier to integrate the stern and bowcastles into the hull, and help you maintain the sleek lines. I am not sure I have the right "model" in my head, but I think that might help anyways. You can also look up some galleons, for further inspiration.

In reality, a lot of these ship-types evolved from eachother, so there would be all sorts of variants in between the "archetypes".

Also, always happy to help, so just keep them WIP's coming. This thread is specifically for this, so don't be afraid to "clutter" it up. (Goes for everyone)

Edited January 27, 2017 by Bregir

[Sir Stig]

2 hours ago, Bregir said:

Also, always happy to help, so just keep them WIP's coming. This thread is specifically for this, so don't be afraid to "clutter" it up. (Goes for everyone)

Thanks, I will try and tweak it a little, and post more WIP as I go along. It is easy to be afraid to not be good enough, but I try to think that if I am to afraid to make mistakes I never learn (goes for everyone).

[Legostone]

Sitting next to the Cardinal the issues with La Raya Venenosa became apparent to me again. That very odd bow, the tall mizzen - just not looking great next to it. I had also recently obtained a decent amount of tan technic connectors to finally replace the bending towers of round 1x1 bricks I had used before. Here is a picture (taken earlier) of La Raya Venenosa with her flaws:

The bow is far too low, the headrails are too long, the masts are the wrong height and bending, Foremast was too far back... Just not happy with how it looks now. So I decided to tear down the masts and the bow. This is very early in the WIP rebuild, so here you go:

Railings are WIP, but I think the shape of the bow is much better now. I've also adjusted the angle of the tumblehome (was surprisingly easy to do) in that area. In theory there is enough space for another (11th) gunport now, but I'm not doing that, as I want this ship to remain smaller than the Cardinal (although that one is actually only 2 studs longer... ;))

And here is the new mast layout:

Main mast, as intended, the tallest of the 3, Foremast slightly less tall, with the fighting top slightly above the one from the mizzen. Also note that I've moved the ladder in this picture - the previous position was kinda in the way. Next steps: Fixing the Skylight (I'm not happy with the current solution), fixing the other side, proper railings on both sides and then go from there. Maybe also a new sternplate?
Now a question to the BOBS ship licensing experts (@Bregir). Would it be possible that this ship goes through as a new one once finished? While the hull remains in one piece, bow, likely the stern, details on the hull, masts, rigging and sails will be reworked or replaced with new ones, so maybe?

[Bregir]

On 28/01/2017 at 1:26 AM, Sir Stig said:

It is easy to be afraid to not be good enough, but I try to think that if I am to afraid to make mistakes I never learn (goes for everyone).

Nothing is "not good enough" for this thread - and if someone starts bashing anyone's attempts at shipbuilding with unconstructive comments or personal insults, I will take measures to meet this. They will feel the wrath of the Bregir!

I hope everyone feels welcome in here, and that those commenting will try to comment constructively on all submissions.

@Legostone: The new headrails are much improved, but I actually think I preferred the old "low" bow. Both looks nice, though. I like what you are doing with the masts too.

As to whether this can be considered a new ship, my immediate response would be "no", as it is "just" a rework of an existing ship. The first version could be considered a WIP of the new version. For me, to be considered a new ship, it needs to be materially a different ship, basically with a new keel laid down from scratch. We are currently discussing this in leadership in a different connection, and I will let you know if that changes anything.

On the other hand, I would like to find some way to encourage revisiting old ships, and we might have that in the works. Good ideas are still welcome, though.

[Kolonialbeamter]

Long time no WIP... better change that:

An armed Terraman. Better pics as soon as the painter has sobered up.

[Jacob Nion]

No that is a ship to my taste! Maybe I will take some inspiration from it- or I just take the original

[Legostone]

Got started on a new ship, a New Terraman (Indiaman), a bit bigger than my frigate (2 studs wider and 1 1/2 longer)

Top view for both ships, you can see the new one is a bit bigger overall.

Broadsides of the new ship.

Stern of both of the ships. 

I think I'll be replacing the guns with smaller ones (I just had these lying around), and I'm also still missing the Bulwarks. I'm also working on several more ships that I'm hoping I can get ready over the next couple weeks.

@Kolonialbeamter Great Galleon! Looking forward to the final build!

[kurigan]

1 hour ago, Legostone said:

What an uncanny likeness. have you been digging through my past?

Spoiler

Nice looking ship in any case. I really like the lines and color scheme. 

 

[Legostone]

@kurigan Actually, nope. I stumbled over this one a while back:

And decided I could try something similar.

Edit:

I've continued a bit on the bow:

Edited February 11, 2017 by Legostone

[kurigan]

@Legostone ah,ha! that is a great model. is your stripe tan and blue or yellow and blue?

[Legostone]

2 minutes ago, kurigan said:

@Legostone ah,ha! that is a great model. is your stripe tan and blue or yellow and blue?

Tan! My yellow is used in other ships:P (also, what do you think of the headrails on this one? I think the beak head is a little bit too long, but I can't change that as I don't want to cut my tan flex tubes)

[kurigan]

24 minutes ago, Legostone said:

Tan! My yellow is used in other ships:P (also, what do you think of the headrails on this one? I think the beak head is a little bit too long, but I can't change that as I don't want to cut my tan flex tubes)

Oh I though it looked good. It's not man-o-war style, but hat's a good thing here. I had started composing a bit about how you use less common, but historically valid elements as such to good effect. I thought better of it and deleted it, but there it is. Keep the long flat head, i works for this kind of vessel IMHO. The figure head, Horus is it? may be a bit large but it looks neat. If you wanna get fancy a 1 X 2 technic brick on it's side looks a lot like a "seat of ease" 

 

Have yo checked out Friendship of Salem? 

[Legostone]

On 2/11/2017 at 11:35 PM, kurigan said:

Oh I though it looked good. It's not man-o-war style, but hat's a good thing here. I had started composing a bit about how you use less common, but historically valid elements as such to good effect. I thought better of it and deleted it, but there it is. Keep the long flat head, i works for this kind of vessel IMHO. The figure head, Horus is it? may be a bit large but it looks neat. If you wanna get fancy a 1 X 2 technic brick on it's side looks a lot like a "seat of ease" 

 

Have yo checked out Friendship of Salem? 

6

I like having my figureheads:P I think most of my mid-sized and bigger ships had some kind of figurehead, so I had to stay true to that for this one too:D Sadly there isn't enough space for more around the bow.
No, I haven't, but maybe it can be an inspiration for one of my next merchants.

Well, and here is the current state of progress:

I've decided to keep the bulwarks fairly low, as it is a ship that isn't meant to run alone, the guns are only for defense if conflict can't be avoided. If this would be built like a frigate I would raise them a bit further up. Once I'm done with the rigging I'll set it down next to the Cardinal to see how similar the two ships are (this one is just a few studs longer and wider, but I think the other hull is slightly taller, at least around the stern and bow.

Off course, the necessery rigging test at this point: Seems to be holding up.

[Jacob Nion]

@Legostone I say aye to figureheads! It's part of a ship's personality. Something every vessel should have. The blue and tan make for a noble appearance. 

Ahoy lads, I have a question that I was wondering about for a while now. Although it's not directly connected to a current ship project I find it worthy discussing, and I prefer to enjoy the exclusive company of BoBS'lers instead of bringing it to the main pirate forum.

For sure most of you have followed the release of footage from the upcoming PotC film Dead men tell no tales and noticed the antagonist's ship, the Silent Mary.

A major detail of her unique appearance are six roundels armed with cannons. 

While I would find it reasonable as a kind of oriel as part of the aftcastle's gallery and the transom, I have never seen such a feature at a forecastle before. Has anyone of you? Is there any reference material, or is it perhaps an original idea of the film's production designers? 

I must admit that I like those roundels. Their tower-like structure give the ship the appearance of an impregnable fortress, without looking like they would narrow her sailing performance. 

And I would love to see a BoBS warship inspired by the Mary.

Edited February 18, 2017 by Jacob Nion

[Legostone]

6 minutes ago, Jacob Nion said:

@Legostone I say aye to figureheads! It's part of a ship's personality. Something every vessel should have. The blue and tan make for a noble appearance. 

Indeed! 

6 minutes ago, Jacob Nion said:

Ahoy lads, I have a question that I was wondering about for a while now. Although it's not directly connected to a current ship project I find it worthy discussing, and I prefer to enjoy the exclusive company of BoBS'lers instead of bringing it to the main pirate forum.

For sure most of you have followed the release of footage from the upcoming PotC film Dead men tell no tales and noticed the antagonist's ship, the Silent Mary.

A major detail of her unique appearance are six roundels armed with cannons. 

While I would find it reasonable as a kind of oriel as part of the aftcastle's gallery and the transom, I have never seen such a feature at a forecastle before. Has anyone of you? Is there any reference material, or is it perhaps an original idea of the film's production designers? 

I must admit that I like those roundels. Their tower-like structure give the ship the appearance of an impregnable fortress, without looking like they would narrow her sailing performance. 

And I would love to see a BoBS warship inspired by the Mary.

 

While I don't have any other examples of this, I don't see these as completely unreasonable - I rather see them as protective areas around swivel guns/small guns, which were usually out in the open, as well as the decorative aspect you had mentioned. I would be certain they would negatively affect performance of a ship, but considering it would be a fantasy ship anyways it should still be reasonable. 

I would also really like to see a BOBS example of this kind of vessel, both in the non-ghost ship and as a ghostship. 

[kurigan]

56 minutes ago, Jacob Nion said:

I prefer to enjoy the exclusive company of BoBS'lers instead of bringing it to the main pirate forum.

Why's that mate? Seems sort of exclusionary, even a bit hurtful. Seems to be quite contrary to the welcoming sprite of BoBS. Honestly you may be cutting off your nose to spite you face, but good luck with your research.

[Jacob Nion]

5 minutes ago, kurigan said:

Why's that mate? Seems sort of exclusionary, even a bit hurtful. Seems to be quite contrary to the welcoming sprite of BoBS. Honestly you may be cutting off your nose to spite you face, but good luck with your research.

Calm down please, that was in no way meant as a serious statement. More of a ironical reference to Bregir's introduction post. Sorry that you took it that way. To be honest I was hoping you would have joined in this subject when I saw you responded. 

[kurigan]

@Jacob Nion Wo there cully. Never lost my cool. Perhaps we both need to watch the sarcasm though*. I do have a job to do helping to keep order though an we've had a problem with partisanship around these parts before. that's what really ruined TOR. Let's call it squaresy then and move on, eah? 

 

*Because it doesn't translate well in text and we wind up off topic. 

[Jacob Nion]

I assure you we stay on the same side concerning netiquette in this forum.

 Now I consider it your duty as able mate to head us back on course by sharing your opinion about these fancy roundels mounted on the forecastle.

Edited February 19, 2017 by Jacob Nion

[gedren_y]

I took some time to work on my LDD SOL. I haven't quite solved my bow design, but I have a few things to try.

(full image)

My issue is figuring out a sail plan for something so large.