Will Chima return to the world of LEGO

[brickmerchant114]

so there has been alot of debate for whether or not chima will be returning to both the world of lego and the televised world and as to whether or not it returns what will the new season bring i mean eris said this is the last but thus nothing can last peacefully forever so please anyone post information for this topic as it would be good to settle this debate once and for all

[Fugazi]

Hi brickmerchant114, welcome to Eurobricks. I have moved your post to the proper forum. Please make sure to use proper punctuation when posting here. Do check out the forum guidelines available in the menu bar or in my signature.

[PenPlays]

2 hours ago, brickmerchant114 said:

so there has been alot of debate for whether or not chima will be returning to both the world of lego and the televised world and as to whether or not it returns what will the new season bring i mean eris said this is the last but thus nothing can last peacefully forever so please anyone post information for this topic as it would be good to settle this debate once and for all

Hi. Welcome to Eurobricks

I should let you know that a part of the sites guidelines ask that you form your sentences with proper punctuation and the like.

To answer your question, though. Based on the popularity and sales (there are some 2014 sets still on the shelves around here if that's any indication)  of the theme the answer is no. The theme killed itself for its media presence not being too good to begin with (especially since it was living in Ninjago's shadow). That's aside from the show's atrocious story-telling and acting, and this is coming from someone who at least enjoyed the sets.

Edited October 31, 2016 by Penkid11

[brickmerchant114]

with respects to you and any others who have useful insight, i feel a certain hope inside my mind that this series will return even if it must have some sort of change made to its design. the name, how characters are portrayed so on and so forth but the only thing i ask no considerable change with is the inclusion of the bipedal anthropomorphic animal designed character keep this idea just put it to a different name and with a different storyline. Ninjago was good but i have disowned it from my initial  theme listing as the story behind the persons and settinga and history hardly ever make sense also they are loosing their touch as they are starting to have to resort back to pulling all the villians back for a second chance not what i would call a idea never before thought up. star wars has better storytelling  than ninjago also i have heard supposed rumors about how nexo knights is the newest replacement and i do say that nexo knights sucks miserably(sorry to all you nexo knight fans out there)but the take on sci fi knights has been used to often infact it has been used in anime for years also i am not impressed by the sets  

[NotMegalodon]

I think most of the Chima sets are pretty cool, some are not. I don't see it returning ever. It had a 3 year run, and now it's done. Offcourse they might one day do anthropomorphic animal designed charactes again 

Also, i'm a big Nexo Knight fan and like almost every set a lot. I think sci-fi knights will prove to be a good choice for a theme.

[Peppermint_M]

Hi. Please can you use punctuation and capitalisation? It makes your posts very hard to read otherwise and its part of the Site Guidelines, requesting at least basic grammar. 

Thanks.

[Bricknblue]

It is never coming back. Ever. Ice Planet 2002 has a higher chance (also none) of coming back. Chima was a failure.

[Aanchir]

1 hour ago, Bricknblue said:

It is never coming back. Ever. Ice Planet 2002 has a higher chance (also none) of coming back. Chima was a failure.

That's not true at all, no matter how many AFOLs want to believe it. Chima was successful, even if it wasn't as massive a hit as the LEGO Group originally forecast. It was a bigger contributor to sales growth in 2013 (its launch year) than any other boy-oriented theme. And not only did it get a full three years of sets, just as originally planned for it, but in its final year it got thirteen sets. The LEGO Group doesn't continue to make that kind of investment year after year in failing themes.

Chima didn't last as long as Ninjago has, but even Ninjago was neither expected nor intended to last as long as it has. It was originally forecast for just two and a half years and two seasons — the only reason it continued beyond those initial plans was because it massively exceeded expectations. If Ninjago's performance were the benchmark for a successful theme, then there are hardly any themes that could rightly be called successful.

I don't know when/if the time might ever be right for Chima to get another shot, but Tommy Andreasen (one of its creators, as well as one of the creators of LEGO Ninjago and LEGO Nexo Knights) says he'd love to revisit it one day.

[brickmerchant114]

holy crap(excuse my language)but finally, finally someone who i can say is helping my arguments honestly i like your arguement very well placed and the statistics thank you very much you have sparked the hope i have asked for not the bull that these ney sayers are saying 

[Bricknblue]

It was a failure. It started off strong, but it ended. It wasn't successful, the sets are still sitting in warehouses years later at half off a lot of the time. That is not success. Yes it made it to it's third year as planned, but having sets still cheaper than MSRP on Amazon years and years after the theme ended is not a success. Not a huge failure like Quadro or Ben 10, but still a failure if you can't move the product.

[BrickJagger]

It certainly had a promising start, but sales clearly tapered off badly in the theme's second year. This was likely due to too many tribes being introduced, fairly basic set design, and incredibly similar vehicles. In my opinion, the second year of the theme contained the best sets and most creative builds, but it definitely wasn't as successful.

The (absolutely horrendous) TV show wasn't doing it any favors either. Ninjago and Nexo Knights both have engaging shows with loads of new content, while Chima was essentially endless warring combined with some deus ex machina and a cringeworthy romantic subplot. 

 

In conclusion, I don't see a reason it should come back.

[Aanchir]

10 minutes ago, Bricknblue said:

It was a failure. It started off strong, but it ended. It wasn't successful, the sets are still sitting in warehouses years later at half off a lot of the time. That is not success. Yes it made it to it's third year as planned, but having sets still cheaper than MSRP on Amazon years and years after the theme ended is not a success. Not a huge failure like Quadro or Ben 10, but still a failure if you can't move the product.

Is that so? First of all, Chima ended last year. In fact, technically speaking, Chima's final wave of sets wasn't retired until this January — it hasn't even been a full year since the theme wrapped up. So your comment about how sets are priced "years and years after the theme ended" can't possibly apply to Chima.

But moreover, do you know what's also cheaper than MSRP on Amazon years and years after it came out? The Ninjago set 9450 Epic Dragon Battle. A set that came out before Chima even BEGAN. Either Ninjago — which, mind you, was still one of the LEGO Group's five top-selling themes as of last year — was itself a failure… or your definitions for success and failure are fundamentally flawed.

Also bear in mind that a brand starting strong and getting weaker over time isn't some kind of disaster. That's what's expected. Nobody here is pretending that Chima in 2015 still had the momentum it had in 2013 — if it had, it would surely still be continuing this year. But if the LEGO Group made more money from the theme than they lost by the end of it, then it can't rightly be called a failure.

[PenPlays]

Let's look at this from the perspective of sales. What would happen if (as an example) you put $100 toward making 100 toys that you intended to sell for $1.40 to make a profit. and only 40 of those toys sold within the window they were officially available at full price? Several discounts later, you still haven't sold even remotely enough, and you have to claim them as a loss.

Most of the 2013 Wave is available for full price if not less directly from Amazon nearly 4 years after its launch. Most of which neither Lego or Amazon can discount as that would but them under profit, if not the cost of manufacturing in general.

Now in the future if you were deciding on reviving a toy line, would you pick the one that had trouble selling launch window product years after it was launched?

There are fans of Chima. There will always be fans of Chima. But unlike there was for Ninjago, there is not enough outcry for Chima to even warrant a revival at this point.

How do you communicate that with fans who may be too young to understand loss like this? Tell them "Maybe some day :D," even though, just off sales alone (which is why these themes exist in the first place) that is never going to happen.

 

It's time to move on, like the Classic Space, Toy Story, Belville, etc. fans before you. I have.

 

Just don't forget what you loved about what you've lost.

Edited November 1, 2016 by Penkid11

[Faefrost]

On 11/1/2016 at 1:07 PM, Aanchir said:

That's not true at all, no matter how many AFOLs want to believe it. Chima was successful, even if it wasn't as massive a hit as the LEGO Group originally forecast. It was a bigger contributor to sales growth in 2013 (its launch year) than any other boy-oriented theme. And not only did it get a full three years of sets, just as originally planned for it, but in its final year it got thirteen sets. The LEGO Group doesn't continue to make that kind of investment year after year in failing themes.

Chima didn't last as long as Ninjago has, but even Ninjago was neither expected nor intended to last as long as it has. It was originally forecast for just two and a half years and two seasons — the only reason it continued beyond those initial plans was because it massively exceeded expectations. If Ninjago's performance were the benchmark for a successful theme, then there are hardly any themes that could rightly be called successful.

I don't know when/if the time might ever be right for Chima to get another shot, but Tommy Andreasen (one of its creators, as well as one of the creators of LEGO Ninjago and LEGO Nexo Knights) says he'd love to revisit it one day.

Chima was likely profitable, at least on the toy lines. I was a good line that produced decent sales. But it certainly was not the cultural phenomenon that Ninjago was. It was a good solid 3 year line. Which is about where Lego typically leaves things. After their experiences with Bionacle in its original run they learned to limit the lines and not push them to the point where their profitability inverts. So most lines will have a clear planned EOL. Typically at inception they are planned for 1, 2 or 3 years/release cycles. This allows for the initial fans of the property to start to age out, while they hook new fans with the next line. The aberration to this was Ninjago, which was brought back from cancellation twice due to fan and parent outrage, and now stands as a vibrant wholly owned Lego internal pop culture IP. 

We may see a re-exploration of Chima's ideas and themes, much the same way we see with the Adventurers stuff, or Agents, or the various Diver or Dinosaur themes. But we will not see a direct continuation of Chima as we know it today. At best we may see some sort of periodically recurrent animal character theme. (Post Apocalyptic Fabuland for the win! Granted that's more or less what Chima was. Fabuland where the carnivores won and became drug addicts.)

[dulsi]

I enjoyed Chima and would like to see it continued. I created Roon's Raccoon Sprintladder on ideas for that explicit purpose. Alas it will probably expire soon. I still like the line and need to post up my minotaur vehicle and design a penguin vehicle. The animal suit guys allow people to continue the theme on there on. I wanted to do a stop-animation video for the Sprintladder but alas my attempt didn't come out well. Maybe I'll improve the Sprintladder and try again.

[Aanchir]

4 hours ago, Faefrost said:

The aberration to this was Ninjago, which was brought back from cancellation twice due to fan and parent outrage, and now stands as a vibrant wholly owned Lego internal pop culture IP.

Twice? I'm not sure what the second time you're thinking of is. It was originally supposed to end after the 2013 wave, but after LEGO decided to continue it in 2014, there haven't been any other plans or attempts to cancel it.

And I definitely agree, Chima was nowhere near the phenomenon that Ninjago was. I certainly never anticipate it getting a direct continuation like Ninjago got. But I wouldn't rule out the possibility of a reboot or re-imagining in the distant future. There may not be precedent for a reboot of a theme that only lasted three years, but considering Chima was one of the first TV-driven IPs (after Galidor and Ninjago), I don't know if it's really entirely comparable to the more general theme categories like underwater, mining, secret agents, etc.

[The Architect]

I would like it to be continued as it has definitely given us some good minifgures, hopefully we can get some more! 

Edited November 3, 2016 by The Architect

[brickmerchant114]

okay so i have talked it through, i will be creating a list of animals that based on the animals the lego company has created already, this list will be comprised of the separate animal ideas that the lego company might be able to work with. this being said i hope to have it looked over by the actual company. anyone and i do mean anyone has any ideas or created anything like a idea you want to be recognized please send it to me at hound1145@gmail.com thank you and i will be submitting the list as soon as it is completed. 

[Faefrost]

On 11/3/2016 at 11:06 AM, The Architect said:

I would like it to be continued as it has definitely given us some good minifgures, hopefully we can get some more! 

Which sort of segues into one of the other areas that might weigh a bit against China long term. Specialized theme specific tooling. One of the more amazing things about the two other similar multimedia action themes (heck call it three and throw elves in there) remain how much more universally useful almost all of the line specific new tooling has been. I think for Ninjago really the only elements not immediately used or useful elsewhere were a few bad guy heads. Mainly the Snakes. Similarly So many of Nexo Knights new parts have found a ton of cross usage elsewhere. So much of China's new molds budget went into things like the head masks that are hard or impossible to use elsewhere. Yeah we got some good stuff like the minifig wings, but it just feels more limited. 

[gamejutzu]

A Chima continuation or reboot might not be as impossible as it seems. In the end of the Chima TV series (which you honestly should have seen by now; I haven't even finished S3 and I've seen it) we see that "Chima" isn't a world, but actually a small multi-ecosystem along with several others stretched as far as the eye goes. There could be a very subtle animal or primal theme based on the other "worlds", or even the bottom floor itself, and throughout the theme we could see some subtle or clever nods to Chima. Maybe if it got a TV show, somewhere around the line we could get a real Chima appearance.

[Aanchir]

26 minutes ago, Faefrost said:

Which sort of segues into one of the other areas that might weigh a bit against China long term. Specialized theme specific tooling. One of the more amazing things about the two other similar multimedia action themes (heck call it three and throw elves in there) remain how much more universally useful almost all of the line specific new tooling has been. I think for Ninjago really the only elements not immediately used or useful elsewhere were a few bad guy heads. Mainly the Snakes. Similarly So many of Nexo Knights new parts have found a ton of cross usage elsewhere. So much of China's new molds budget went into things like the head masks that are hard or impossible to use elsewhere. Yeah we got some good stuff like the minifig wings, but it just feels more limited. 

That may be a sort of a limitation as far as AFOLs are concerned, but I'm not sure it's a huge factor in the LEGO Group's decision making, considering that "big bang" themes like this are manufactured in huge numbers and most of the Chima head/headgear pieces were used for several different characters across several different sets. It does, perhaps, make it unlikely that LEGO would bring Chima character designs out of retirement for more limited products without reviving the entire product line. But if they did see a market to revive the product line, I don't think the animal molds would be seen as a serious obstacle to overcome. Certainly no more so than the inevitable dino molds for any dinosaur theme.

[MAB]

On 01/11/2016 at 11:57 PM, Penkid11 said:

Let's look at this from the perspective of sales. What would happen if (as an example) you put $100 toward making 100 toys that you intended to sell for $1.40 to make a profit. and only 40 of those toys sold within the window they were officially available at full price? Several discounts later, you still haven't sold even remotely enough, and you have to claim them as a loss.

Most of the 2013 Wave is available for full price if not less directly from Amazon nearly 4 years after its launch. Most of which neither Lego or Amazon can discount as that would but them under profit, if not the cost of manufacturing in general.

Now in the future if you were deciding on reviving a toy line, would you pick the one that had trouble selling launch window product years after it was launched?

3

Most of the sets you point to seem to be ones sold not by amazon (on the primary market), but by resellers (on the secondary market). Lego doesn't care so much about the prices for discontinued sets, as they no longer sell them. They have already sold them to the resellers.

If future market research says that there was a good market for a new Chima range, then I think lego would do it. I doubt they'd start scouring amazon for resellers stock that is not selling, when they know their own historical sales figures.

[horizon]

Aanchir had it correct: compared to Ninjago 90% other themes will fall flat. What I would like to know is, unrelated to the topic though, is what the difference in popularity is between Ninjago spinners, Chima racers & Ninjago flyers. I still think, so can be wrong, that a huge deal of Ninjago succes came from (a good tvshow) and the spinning thing.

[Lyichir]

4 hours ago, horizon said:

Aanchir had it correct: compared to Ninjago 90% other themes will fall flat. What I would like to know is, unrelated to the topic though, is what the difference in popularity is between Ninjago spinners, Chima racers & Ninjago flyers. I still think, so can be wrong, that a huge deal of Ninjago succes came from (a good tvshow) and the spinning thing.

I think all three were successful to a certain extent, though of course I think the lower popularity of Chima as a whole did also translate to the Speedorz being less popular as well. And as "gimmicks", none of them really lasted more than a year or two before Lego moved on to the next big thing.

The spinners were a VERY important part of Ninjago's development and launch. I've read that some of Lego's designers actually hoped for them to be so popular that they would be banned from schools (like Pokémon cards or other huge crazes).

Ninjago's TV show probably also made an impact on its initial success, though keep in mind that it only really got a single TV special (and a series of online shorts) in the first year. It was the success of that special that led to it being picked up as a full, ongoing series (and apparently gave Lego the confidence to launch both Chima and Nexo Knights with full series from the get-go).

[PenPlays]

16 hours ago, MAB said:

Most of the sets you point to seem to be ones sold not by amazon (on the primary market), but by resellers (on the secondary market). Lego doesn't care so much about the prices for discontinued sets, as they no longer sell them. They have already sold them to the resellers.

If future market research says that there was a good market for a new Chima range, then I think lego would do it. I doubt they'd start scouring amazon for resellers stock that is not selling, when they know their own historical sales figures.

You will notice though that many of these resellers, and online stores that fulfill their transactions through Amazon, are usually offering their Chima product at MSRP or below, despite being entirely up to the seller to set the price. To me this shows the disparity of wanting to get rid of these sets while also avoiding coming at a loss.

You look at most Lego sets from the past few years that are resold post retirement, and many are still being sold either at MSRP or above. Only a couple sets from those themes remain below MSRP despite resellers trying to sell them for a higher price. Chima however only has a couple sets that are even being consistently resold at MSRP.

Event post retirement they have issues selling at MSRP. That's close to being unheard of in most themes that have launched these past few years.

It's true that future market research may help them in making a decision in reviving a theme (hopefully without the neglect that Bionicle got). I personally believe, however, that Chima would not be that theme, but I haven't seen hard numbers to tell me otherwise.

Edited December 8, 2016 by Penkid11