Turning MOCs into actual sets using clone brands?

[aidank]

Hi all!

I'm new here and I just wanted to know what your opinions are on selling MOCs using clone bricks (not bootlegs).

Currently, many MOCers are able to provide instructions, but people wanting to build those MOCs either have to:

1) spend a lot of time and money acquiring the necessary pieces over marketplaces like BrickLink, or

2) acquire the pieces from various LEGO sets. It seems as though people could benefit from having clone bricks fill this void, and

3) even if the entire set is available on BL, it's often limited by the bricks that are available on the market. 

Also, I know how horrible it is that LEPIN would steal designs from MOCers on LEGO Ideas. And I feel terrible that such companies would hurt the community that way and give competitor brands a bad rep. But stealing aside, given how LEGO constantly rejects great LEGO Ideas submissions (with 10k supporters), wouldn't it be great if there was a competitor brand who would take up those designs and turn it into actual sets? 

I've also been told that clone brands might be helpful in providing MOCers with bricks in certain colours, or out-of-production bricks. 

The reason I ask all this is because I perceived this need in the community and I was wondering if someone ever tried working with a clone brand manufacturer. I've spoken to a few MOCers to ask if they would like to monetise their designs using clone brands. They do appear interested in monetising, but their opinions differ over the use of clone brands (some were for it, but others couldn't because they felt it would affect their reputation). However, those were just a couple of views. I wanted to know what the wider community thought. 

Forgive me, I'm quite new to the LEGO community and maybe I don't understand all the issues fully. However, I would really appreciate knowing your thoughts. 

[agrof]

Hello aidank!

FYI - similar topic was already closed, due to recent change of site Guidelines:

Quote

Bootlegs, Rip-Offs and Fakes: These manufacturers copy designs and minifigures from LEGO, other companies and even fans, to produce their own infringing products which they then sell, often at knock down prices. There are hundreds of names attached to these products and varied quality between them. We will no longer accept discussion and sharing of these products on Eurobricks. Most of these "brands" are facing legal cases and we have no interest in supporting them by providing a place for their criminal products to be seen.

With all of my respect: I personally think, it is kind of pity (the fan part), because the escalating practice of stealing MOCs has an important effect on all of us here on Eurobricks. If we don't talk about, the phenomenon is still exists.

I think one step further: without conversation we can not build up a kind of organisation (trade union?) which might help in the future to stop this trend.

Edited October 29, 2016 by agrof

[tkatt]

Welcome to Eurobricks. 

In todays world you can get just about anything you want sent right to your door. If you want to hear a song, see a movie, or watch a long cancelled TV show you can stream it to your phone anywhere you happen to be. 

Older people remember a time when you had to have patience to get things. If you wanted to order something to your house you needed a paper catalog, you had to send a check, you would wait for over a month for it to arrive. And there was no up to the minute tracking.

How does this relate to your question and be able to build other peoples MOCs? I see the problems you list as challenges.

8 hours ago, aidank said:

1) spend a lot of time and money acquiring the necessary pieces over marketplaces like BrickLink, or

Every rewarding hobby takes time. You can spend lots of money and buy the first things you see, or if you're patient and willing to wait for deals, sales, thrift store finds etc. you can spend far less.

9 hours ago, aidank said:

2) acquire the pieces from various LEGO sets. It seems as though people could benefit from having clone bricks fill this void, and

Aquiring the bricks from sets is part of the fun, also you'll get pieces that bulk up your collection for your own MOCs. Most people into Lego don't like (or flat out refuse to) mix clone bricks into their builds

9 hours ago, aidank said:

3) even if the entire set is available on BL, it's often limited by the bricks that are available on the market.

The internet has improved the lives of Lego collectors. We can buy whatever we want, if we have the money. And if you remember what it was like before you certainly appreciate it. To people who grew up in the "get it right now" world it may be difficult to understand why they can't have certain things cheaply and easily. But that's just how the world is, you can't have everything you want but if you really want something you can work hard and get it.

I'm sure that the clone brands could find many AFOLs who would design sets for them, if they paid them well.  Clone brands with original ideas would be preferable to them stealing from Lego. But one of the reasons clone brands can sell for less than Lego is they have less overhead. If they are using stolen instructions they don't pay a designer. If they use stolen box art they don't pay graphic artists. They don't have to pay for the initial design of the moulds for the bricks. They don't have to do the quality control that goes into the design of new pieces. If they did all the things Lego does to put a set into the market the price of their sets will go up and the cost advantage they have over Lego will go away.

 

[aidank]

12 hours ago, agrof said:

Hello aidank!

FYI - similar topic was already closed, due to recent change of site Guidelines:

With all of my respect: I personally think, it is kind of pity (the fan part), because the escalating practice of stealing MOCs has an important effect on all of us here on Eurobricks. If we don't talk about, the phenomenon is still exists.

I think one step further: without conversation we can not build up a kind of organisation (trade union?) which might help in the future to stop this trend.

Hi agrof, great to meet you!

Apologies, I should have been more clear. I'm thinking more along the lines of a clone brick manufacturer that could help MOCers produce their popular MOCs, and provide the community with an affordable source of Lego-compatible bricks. I was trying to follow the guidelines under this paragraph regarding clone/competitor brands: 

Quote

Clone and Competitor Brands: A Clone brand or competitor brand, is a product manufactured by a legitimate company. For Example Oxford,Mega Blocks. Kreo or Character Building. These are companies that do not infringe copyrights and provide a competitor product, such as licenses and themes LEGO do not produce. It is fair to discuss, compare and share these brands and their products in the Community section of the Forum. 

Yes, I totally agree with you that a lot of discussions around bootlegs are nipped in the bud early - it prevents the creation of real solutions by the community. People are really caught between a rock and a hard place, because on one hand great MOCs get rejected by LEGO Ideas, yet on the other hand a bootleg manufacturer sees how popular the design is and just steals it. It's another reason why I think there may be a possibility of a competitor brand helping MOCers to produce their designs (not stealing, but picking up the baton where Lego has put it down.) An organisation would be great, and I feel that instead of just stamping down on all clone brands across the spectrum, it should:

1) Condemn bootlegging and stealing;

2) Promote MOCers' work by finding some other avenue for MOCs to be produced for the masses;

3) Encourage clone brick manufacturers (some of whom have bricks of comparable quality to LEGO) to collaborate with MOCers. This will provide that avenue in point 2.

I truly see that as a win-win-win situation for everyone. 

 

[aidank]

Hi tkatt! I really love and appreciate your reply. Anyway to address your points:

6 hours ago, tkatt said:

How does this relate to your question and be able to build other peoples MOCs? I see the problems you list as challenges.

Every rewarding hobby takes time. You can spend lots of money and buy the first things you see, or if you're patient and willing to wait for deals, sales, thrift store finds etc. you can spend far less.

I do see your point. It also makes finally having the bricks that you've been eyeing and waiting for for a long time worthwhile. 

6 hours ago, tkatt said:

The internet has improved the lives of Lego collectors. We can buy whatever we want, if we have the money. And if you remember what it was like before you certainly appreciate it. To people who grew up in the "get it right now" world it may be difficult to understand why they can't have certain things cheaply and easily. But that's just how the world is, you can't have everything you want but if you really want something you can work hard and get it.

Yes, I see all these marketplaces and services online now, but I can only imagine how much harder it must have been as a collector without the internet. That being said though, like you mentioned about songs and TV shows - people wanted more (instant streaming, Netflix) than what was already made comparatively more available (DVD vs having to wait for it to air on TV etc). And services stepped in to provide that to people. While great strides have been made, why not make improvements where they could be helpful? 

6 hours ago, tkatt said:

Aquiring the bricks from sets is part of the fun, also you'll get pieces that bulk up your collection for your own MOCs. Most people into Lego don't like (or flat out refuse to) mix clone bricks into their builds

Yes, I guess having bricks so readily available would kill this aspect of collecting bricks, and I can't argue against it. However, I also see MOCs as pieces of art, and bricks as a medium to create those works. Just as an artist working with paints should not have to restrict themselves to the availability and affordability of certain colours of paint, I feel that MOCers should not be hampered by the availability of certain colours of bricks etc. Though I guess you could argue that scarcity breeds creativity!

6 hours ago, tkatt said:

I'm sure that the clone brands could find many AFOLs who would design sets for them, if they paid them well.  Clone brands with original ideas would be preferable to them stealing from Lego. But one of the reasons clone brands can sell for less than Lego is they have less overhead. If they are using stolen instructions they don't pay a designer. If they use stolen box art they don't pay graphic artists. They don't have to pay for the initial design of the moulds for the bricks. They don't have to do the quality control that goes into the design of new pieces. If they did all the things Lego does to put a set into the market the price of their sets will go up and the cost advantage they have over Lego will go away.

I agree that clone brands won't be able to have such low prices as they begin to produce their own designs, conduct R&D and license IP. However, I don't believe that TLG runs a charity too. I think they make about 30% margin, which more than covers their overhead. So while clone brands may increase the price of their sets to cover some additional overhead, competition could put resistance on rising set costs across the board. However, you could argue that there may not be competition if a clone brand targets a diff customer segment altogether (e.g. AFOLs).

[agrof]

@aidank: I see, in this case there is another "problem". If I am not mistaken, all Ideas designs belongs to LEGO, as users accepted the terms and conditions. I can not check this right now, please do yourself. I think LEGO did this to avoid the cases, You described.

Edited October 30, 2016 by agrof